Rumor Mill Starts in Earnest
- Incoming Chicago Police Supt. Garry McCarthy, who has yet to be approved by the City Council, has asked for the resumes of all top cop command staff — and wants pictures accompanying the resumes? Huh.
But some ingenious soul had part two - is it true?
- I was also on the phone with a friend that works at HQ and he said that the boss also wants to know how each person scored on every promotional test that they took & if the promotion that they got was in ranked order or by merit.
If this is true time will tell just how he feels about these clout babies that are in charge.
That part alone would tighten up some sphincters.
Labels: rumors
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
104 Comments:
Please stop the merit process. Too many officers who a regular schmoes studied hard to get promoted, only to get pushed behind the system due to the merit promotions.
I think there was a similar song and dance by Jody, so I'm not going to hold my breath. As long as CPD bosses are making the exams and holding secret study groups, the process will be flawed.
Sounds like a good start to me. Im tired of taking orders from people who shouldn t even be the police let alone a boss. But lets remember that just because someone scores well on a test doesnt mean they are qualified to lead. Change could be good but only time will tell.
GO ENFORCERS
BEAT NY
Three things a Chicago Cop should never believe in are: the Tooth Fairy, a timely new contract, and Chicago without clout.
Sounds like the same old Weis-style bullshit to me.
A rainbow coalition of shit. Pass the Pepto!
Holly crap Batman, its time for some serious creative writing! Use of big words, flashy graphics, scented paper. Anything would work. For those with special skills I suggest a video resume, things like beer pong, keg stands, lip syncing karaoke, motorboating, tap dancing,,,, u name it.
HA-HA!
Eliminate the borderline morons. Everyone takes the 12 minute, 50 item Wonderlic test.
please be true. could this be the begining of the end of "merit" (political clout). morale killing, incompetent bosses.
Thats great, lets know what everyone scored. Lets out the people that have for years told people, I made it legit or I was by score.
Until the last couple of classes of Sgts and Lts, we don't know who made it off the list or who made it by merit.
Does someone have all the promotional lists for the last 20 years? not sure when merit promotions came on board.
I would love to see all these people turn red when they are outed.
I know a few merit sgts that are solid, I also know a few that made it off the list that couldn't make a decision to save their lives. I believe it to be a case by case basis when it comes to analyzing how someone was promoted.
Clout clout clout clout clout clout .................................
Dear Superintendent McCarthy,
Will Commander of Inspection Division Penelope Trahanas' booking photo suffice?
How about 013th District Commander Frank Gross' picture violating the Civil Rights of the G20 summit protester in Pittsburgh? Might have to photoshop the fuck out of that beauty.
Extensive cropping is also in order for Downtown Ernie Brown's hatless photo as he finished the GD handshake with convicted felon and one-time Gangster Disciple leader Wallace "Gator" Bradley. The picture should not only be sans "Gator", it should also conceal the fact that DTEB uses his service revolver as a hatrack.
If you'd like to boost morale in record time, please DO release all findings as to what each gold star "Bosshole" scored on every promotional test they've taken and how they actually attained each rank they've held.
Also, may I recommend reviewing their educational records and accomplishments? The lion's share of our so-called "leaders" can't put together a logical sentence or form a cognizant thought without the support of a stable of house mice/secretaries (many of which aren't much brighter)...peruse just some of their facsimile messages and be prepared to be dumbfounded at the ignorance and lack of basic reading and writing skills.
I don't have the time or energy to get into the psychological shortcomings that seem to be part and parcel to most in the upper-echelon of the Department (see: Mealer, Flores, Schmitz, et al.).
Aaahhhhh, the CPD!!!! Where one's meteoric rise is only limited to the level of their incompetence*.
* Add in heaping portions of cash-filled envelopes, sexual favors, clout and nepotism for full effect.
As long as he's given the most pertinent information, how rigged the testing process is to begin with.The secret study groups that launched several incompetent hacks onto a fast track career to Gold Star. Take a good hard look @ their disciplinary records, those speak volumes as well..
An old-fashioned merit appointed command staff blood-letting would bring tears of joy! Better work on those fluffing skills you hacks!
He should first ask why the hell is Ernie Brown in charge of anything? This department has so many fools in command positions its embarrassing.
If I were Penny I'd grow a goatee.
But some ingenious soul had part two - is it true?
I was also on the phone with a friend that works at HQ and he said that the boss also wants to know how each person scored on every promotional test that they took & if the promotion that they got was in ranked order or by merit.
If this is true time will tell just how he feels about these clout babies that are in charge.
That part alone would tighten up some sphincters
The above is not true. Just wishful thinking.
We can only hope!
hopefully he will see the direct connection between having the test answers (or inside knowledge of the vetted questions r/t oh say- working for Maurer) and the quick rise to exempt (self important micromanaging big head SG and keating puppet CK)...maybe he will also take a look at exempt work history and see if any of the nitwits running districts did actual street time in patrol
Chief Rivera/ Commander Klimas (WEIS)Guys. Two positions NOT needed in IAD,Klimas is getting a FBI pension plus a commanders salary. WOW!!!!! must be nice.
I call bullshit
That is going to be awesome for guys like Lt Schmear!
We knew the cream would rise to the top with guys like you around boss.
It's a lot - not alot said...
Who is this Lt Schmear guy and where did he work at? And where does he work now? Who is his clout? Or is he a legit guy?
5/05/2011 09:01:00 PM
He is a worker. Worked with him in the Third District, he was one of the Fighting Third Herd members, almost cult like, these guys went out there and busted ass. Great guy! He is more of what we need on this job. They call him the Golden One because he is like Midas - everything he touches turns to gold.
That Should knock out most of the command staff....Double/Triple merit promotions like Dana A. and Anthony C. and Eric C. and .....oh yea, the list goes on and on and on!
Hey, incoming Supt. McCarthy, I bet it will be business as usual - I REALLY HOPE NOT - but this is Chicago and everybody lives and believes in this ridiculous clout system.
You want to see results that will make you look like the Albert Einstein of big city police departments?
1. Stop these fucking meritorious promotions.
2. Have bosses who support their officers for doing the RIGHT thing, not the politically correct thing.
3. Put the media in their place. Sure they will bitch and moan and write false stories, but give them some of the shit that they dish out.
I am willing to bet that within a few police periods you will see some remarkable changes that will make you look like a genius.
About 7,000 of us in patrol will be watching. Please end the bullshit that got us to this point.
Looks like a lot of these exempts will be on the hot seat after never being able to pass any type of promotional exam. One can only hope that they will be weeded out and replaced with competent people. Lets get rid of merit period.
If this is true, I will go against my own rules of a no work status. I will go out there and really work for this guy doing all I can to provide the best service. My right hand to God.
Signed 17 yrs
Sounds like a great move by McCarthy. That being said not all merit promotions are bad. The most idiotic and cowardly Sgts I've dealt with on this job were off the list. I know 3 merit Sgts quite well and they are actually solid and all were very good PO's.
I hate to back merit. I scored in the top 300 on the last Sgt's test and top 350 on the last dicks test. I probably won't make either thanks to merit. Merit isn't the sole problem. Desk jockeys and House Mouses who have never worked the street and study during their tour shouldn't be eligible to be promoted. The promotion process should have a minimum amount of activity attached to it. The activity being Arrests, Movers, and ANOVs. Those can't be faked and require contact with citizens (I guess and ANOV can be faked). Parkers, dispersals, and contact cards can all be made up from the hole.
In reality the whole promotion process probably needs to be redone. The number 1 rule should be only one bite from the merit apple.
Is it true? We could only hope. But, remember, the federal courts approved the use of merit promotions to increase minority promotions. The fact the democrats bastardized it is where it went wrong. If he throws out merit promotions completely, the city will have to come up with a new promotion test.
Just a thought, but that request for photos could possibly be for a look at fitness/bearing, rather than complexion. That's been military practice for a long time now.
At least those in charge still have a sphincter, mine is busted like an old rubber band, thanks CPD
that would be AWESOME
I'll believe it when I see it.
has the dog finally been let off the leash--- has rahm really given mccarthy free reign to get the police department on track again--- all mccarthy has to do is ride around for a few weeks in some of the hot zones and he will see how f***ed up this city is, just like new york--- then go into a few districts for a real show--- no comraderie and bosses who can't lead and have to get on a phone and call their juice every time their is a crisis---- better bring along a large bottle of extra strength tylenol....
Superintendent Garry McCarthy , you are a breath of fresh air to Chicago's Finest , you will soon learn that most Captains and Exempt Command Staff never passed a Det , Sgt or Lt test , some never took part 2 they know they are better than everyone .
CPD does not need all the exempts, we are top heavy and captains all political appointed should be eliminated . Lt's run watch 60 % of time so why have a rank of captain $120,000 a year and they can't or won't enforce uniform , grooming standards or start a roll call on time , they are the joke of cpd , just another no test political appointment
If thats true, 80% of the bosses are gone...
Please be true. PLEASE!!
If in fact this is true it should smoke out some of the double and triple meritorious "bosses" on this job. I say bring it on.
Adrienne Stanley, Henny Penny etc. The list would be quite lengthy.
I heard that Mitros and Schmear are going to have a hughe throw down if things do not go the way that one of them wants....
Could be bad for the third herd crew too. Uhm hum
Off topic rumor...022 get ready for some traffic control on Sunday mornings on 111th St....Father Pfleger is getting transferred to St Christina; it'll be announced next week.
The time is appropriate to begin POSTING PROMOTIONAL SCORES AND YOUR RANKING. Even the most current lists.
Bottom line.....
Abolish Merit.
Is there a "ranked" order for exempt promotions?
What are the Qualifications?
The guy with the softest lips goes first??
Inquiring minds want to know...
When is the swimsuit competition?
I would love it if he called in all the exempts into the multipurpose room and gave them a notepad, pencil, and an essay question of: why are your qualified to be in the rank you are currently in?"
It would be hilarous to read some of these answers because a large number of them would include lots of hibbity gibbity with zero substance.
Get rid of them all and start fresh. Promote from patrol division, you cant go wrong!!
Supt. McCarthy, this is Chicago, where it's not what you know but who you know.
Don't think for one minute that the "test" scores would show anything but what the clout filled in..........
You'll learn, dont listen to the words, watch for the slide of hand... its just like a carnavel side show.
Good luck.
Not sure if you meant it to be a pun with your title of this post "EARNEST"!!! DTEB!!! hahaha
I have heard nothing but GOOD about Superintendent McCarthy a cops cop. I wish him the best of luck in righting the ship that almost sank under JFLEDs reign of terror.
You have to admit, one of the good things about bringing in an outsider (even Weis) is that most of the exempts are gonna get launched.
All be it some of the good ones will be missed the vast majority of them are just a bunch of over-promoted, merit, self-preserving "yes men" who wouldn't know how to stick up for what's right if it could save the world. All most of these gold star exempts care about is preserving their title and their rank. They would sell out their own mother to keep their spots.
The majority of this department's rank and file and mid-level management has no respect for exempts. They see them for what they are: spineless political hacks.
I can't wait to sit back and enjoy the show, when McCarthy gets here. Each of them will tout how important their division or unit is to the department but in the end most of their sad careers will be over.
Question: I heard that he was promoted to sgt at 4 years, lt. at another for years , and captain in another 4 years. That's right folks captain in 12 years in New York. Is that chain right? So how is he attached to the rank and file in a beat car?
wow.............morale would be omproved ten fold. But regretfully I am calling BS. We would have noe exempts left, especially the hacks in OCD
When JFled was appointed/anointed, I was of the opinion that we should wait and see. We did, and WOW, what we saw.
If this information is correct, still gotta say wait and see, but what a marvelous approach to take!
The NJ papers have praised the leadership of Garry McCarthy and are sad to see him go. The police officers unions and supervisors unions also praised him and wish him well. One of the tactics he used to reduce crime is a use of foot patrols. The officers must get out of their cars and enforce quality of life laws. That is, loitering, drinking, window washing, litering, etc. So, you know what is coming here. It will be interesting. This guy will not waste time. They say he is brash and abrasive and hard to talk to, but effective and respected, in a city that is virtually all black. That should shut up our reverands and racist alderman. He is already in town and studying the department.
Since I enjoy being a beat cop, and have enough time on the job to have seen lots of change, I have to say I couldn't put a name to a face with our current command staff, so I do not care who gets dumped. Just find us some leaders that can lead.
Well, Commander Eugene Roy, why don't you also explain to the new Sup. exactly how you made Commander of Bomb & Arson. With no experience you pulled an end run around the CPD and had your clout install you where you are way over your head.
Just tell this guy the truth. They were promoted because of their connections to politicians, period.
Dear Superintendent McCarthy, Please look at the qualifications of the "supervisors" at Area Three Detective Division.
My dad was a deputy chief and I know everything. That's why my brother's a lieutenant and my cousin's a captain.
Hey, I'm cute and my dad owned a bar where all the bosses drank. Yeah, my ex is here too, but he married me so he must have been special.
I can top that, I live next door to the Chief of Security at the Hyatt. My dad was only a sergeant, but I know where to buy real estate.
And on and on and on.....
Can you imagine the look on his face when he sees that most of his staff were merit promotions?
This fool has got no idea who he's up against.
- Mr. Clout
How about that GREAT guy Wysinger who was going to get THE spot?
MERIT ALL THE WAY.
E-V-E-R-Y PROMOTION.
Ohhhhhh, I,m sorrry.
He is a great guy.
I'm sure there are some nervous stomachs amongst the exempts. Then again nobody should be concerned because JFRAUD was transparent and only promoted the best and brightest right??
Can Ernie Brown submit his falsified resume from his Arizona application?
=blink=
My grandfather was a desk Sgt. at East Chicago Ave in the 50's. When various exempts' names would come up, the old boyo would say, "It's not how he became a Capt. that makes me wonder. It whoever gave the shithead a gun in the first place!"
Has he met Penelope yet?
The really telling indicator of who the clout babies are , are those who never bothered to take part 2 of the promotional exams. They don't have to to be appointed merit. The clout babies only have to pass the first part, a pass fail test that is considered pass at 40% correct. Then they are eligible for merit. The ones who were promised merit even before the test did not even bother to show for part 2. That is the real shame of this. They knew, they didn't study, they didn't have to, they didn't care.
No one should be promoted on merit 3 times.
Dear Superintendent McCarthy,
Do us a big favor and dump most of the exempts- especially those that were merit Detective, merit Sergeant, merit Lt. And the ultimately most meritoriously rank- Commander - you'll boost our morale, save our pension from many years of having to pay a pension many of them don't deserve. Their gold braid pensions lock in soon- HURRY!!!
Please get rid of the dead weight and earn our respect!!!
Then he said woo woo woo
current merit cpd bosses can't even get officers to write tickets , wear the correct uniform,work a full shift , some arrive late , others leave early
ooops sgt has time due slip in pants pocket
McCarthy has alot of work ahead of him , better get extra strength excedrin , good luck
most of us are hoping you can change the cpd
That alone would and should wipe out 99 percent of the sgts, lts and commanders! YOWZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Hey Joe Schmoe, their are too many supervisors that don't know crap. All they did was study in their beat cars in slooow districts or from behind a desk while the rest of us were out fighting backlogs & working undercover, typing /executing search warrants. Most merit promoted bosses have been better than the IDK (let me read the order) supervisors I've had! Any little arrogant prick can keep reading to score well on the test but I doesn't make him the POLICE!
don't understand a few things here..people keep talking about this merit process, but why dont we go after our union to lower merit promos..i understand those they want promoted will be regardless, but why dont we let team shields handle this...
If the new boss dumps Ernie Brown, cuello, kirby, and that worthless Lt Murphy. I will bust my ass day in and day out
Garry needs to start with Traffic. Take a good look at any white shirt who ever worked in Traffic and find out who their clout is. Traffic is where bosses go to do less than nothing.
another domestic at the Henny Penny household?? is that a true or just a rumor?
The best way to have a legit test is to have it like a pop quiz!
Merit promotions started when the lts list came out in 1995 and in the first 100 their were 98 whites.The test was out of the depts control,so they couldnt fix it.It was based on a third written,third in basket and the final third oral interviews by graduates from Kent State.They had a least 3 graduates from Kent State evaluate the answers,etc to determine the oral score.When jagoff Daley and company determined the class was mainly white,he then stuck a bunch of non whites and clout babies into the 1st class (based on bullshit merit).In order to justify this conduct,the papers posted the background,such as honorable mentions,dcs.The vast majority had little to show,mainly a dc or two and some honorables.In the meantime the crew that that put in that class,were thrown out by a judges order filed by the next people in line who should have been promoted.In the next group who should have been made were several people with outstanding comp backgrounds.One guy had abount 400 honorables etc including 30 d/cs.So after the judge threw the clout babies out of the class,Daley decided he didnt need the group that was next in line and didnt promote them.They were promoted about a year later with help from the lawsuit and they received back pay.
...The number 1 rule should be only one bite from the merit apple.....
5/06/2011 07:45:00 AM
Which would mean that every rank under Commander would have to be by test scores only.
Sounds good to me!
Lets see-- Merit numbers-- too many to count.
Chief Rivera? merit all the way--
yeah, he's going to change clout promotions in Chicago, dopes.. I got a bridge to sell you too, and It looks like I have buyers lined up
Someone mentioned Gene Roy as cmdr of B&A. I am seriously confused. I thought all the arson dets were sent back to areas. If that is true then cmdr Roy is the cmdr of how many people? Can anyone from B&A shed some light?
I received this email from a friend of mine in New Jersey. High praise for Garry McCarthy. I thought I would pass it along.
This is from a friend who worked with Garry for many years In Newark.
"Street cop first" Don't ever lie to him or you will never have his trust. His leadership choices were allowed to be make decisions and be bosses. He doesn't micro manage. Set of balls.
'If the new boss dumps Ernie Brown, cuello, kirby, and that worthless Lt Murphy. I will bust my ass day in and day out.'
It's ADS Murphy to YOU, ASSHAT!
Clout never dies/ goes to jail like Meahler Unit 191 Intel his clout is Blagobitch. Mikey Keep watching the biker gangs and labor unions while Flash Mobs ruin Near North Oak Street.
Question: I heard that he was promoted to sgt at 4 years, lt. at another for years , and captain in another 4 years. That's right folks captain in 12 years in New York. Is that chain right? So how is he attached to the rank and file in a beat car?
5/06/2011 11:51:00 AM
AT ONE TIME THE AVERAGE NYPD PATROL SGT HAD 5 YEARS ON THE JOB, ALSO NYPD OFFICERS HAD TO WALK THE BEAT FOR 5 YEARS BEFORE MAKING A MOVE. SO HIS 12 YEARS TO CAPTAIN ISNT UNCOMMON. THEY ALSO HAVE 20 YEARS & OUT. PROMPTIONAL TESTS ARE ON-GOING& PRETTY LEGIT FROM ALL INDICATORS. EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THE NYPD
Unfortunately on paper most of these merit hacks look like superstars. From the day they arrived their clout ensured they would be moved to choice spots where they do a couple of years, are promoted, moved to another choice spot, get promoted again etc. I have heard it referred to as grooming. So the new Supt. will look at a file and see for example: Trained in 011, assigned to tactical team, made Sgt,, assigned to A/4 Detective Division, made Lieutenant, assigned to Narcotics, made Commander of Intel. and so on. He will have no clue that this person was simply anointed by a sponsor and pushed ahead of all the other poor working slobs
With all the bullshit awards, you would think these people actually earned their spots which all of us know is a joke. Oh, and don't forget those who paid for their stripes or got the answer to the test questions ahead of time ( notify the watch commander). This place may be broken beyond repair due to politics.
If the new boss dumps Ernie Brown, cuello, kirby, and that worthless Lt Murphy. I will bust my ass day in and day out
ADD MIKEY "Groucho" THE INTELL GOOF HE HATES BLUE SHIRT WORKING COPS and what does intel do track biker gangs
reading these comments sounds like 3 years ago
cosolidate units like intel narc and vice into one command spot there are less than 20 pos in intel and they have a commander WTF what a waste of $$$ Just like B&A
Merit promotions started in 1990 with the detectives. 30 percent were merit.
They were promoted about a year later with help from the lawsuit and they received back pay.
5/06/2011 08:08:00 PM
It was not a year. It was 4+ years. It was April 1995 when the city tried to meritoriously promote 13 clout babies with 55 off the list to the rank of Lieutenant in the first class from the 1994 test. A lawsuit was filed because the meritorious component was never previously published as being part of the promotional process. The court temporarily blocked the meritorious promotions. The city prevailed in court some 4 years later in 1999, and after one of the 13 had been fired from CPD for an unrelated reason. The remaining 12 were all promoted and received back seniority. All 13 received back pay.
Those first meritorious promotions were not about correcting a test result and creating a balance. All 13 were clout babies. It was about the power to do as the city damn well pleased. The city tested the system and eventually prevailed.
Chief Rivera? merit all the way--
5/06/2011 09:41:00 PM
Not one merit bump for the Chief. Since you are on here lying, I have to assume you are a dog. Juan had no use for dogs.
I hope its true, I can only imagine that many assholes are tightening ever so much as we speak. That being said, I myself am a piss poor test taker but quite frankly believe I would make a good sgt or LT. Persoanl opinion of course, but I know many great coppers that are shit test takers yet great leaders. Its just that THOSE guys are still in blue shirts
There is a commander of a South side district who used to work on our tact team. I remember telling my partner then, "This is the dumbest cop I ever met!" Oh yes commander, you know who?
Someone mentioned Gene Roy as cmdr of B&A. I am seriously confused. I thought all the arson dets were sent back to areas. If that is true then cmdr Roy is the cmdr of how many people? Can anyone from B&A shed some light?
5/06/2011 11:13:00 PM
That is why he has lied about positions being deleted and refused to promote experienced people to lead the bomb side or EXO spot and "took over" those duties in name only so he can become the bomb commander despite the ATF FBI and DHS saying he is unqualified. He talks a good game about a subject he read from a memo but is clueless how to lead. Still holding my breath hoping for change.
Merit promotions started in 1990 with the detectives. 30 percent were merit.
Bull shit always has been clout. Are you nuts- 30% up front then another 50% are invited to special classes where they receive the answers -Then their are those who just receive the answers at home. The Clarks brother and sister- were in the same Lt. class both receive the same score???? You have about a 20% chance of making a test on your own.
retired & had 33years on the job was 312 0n sgts. list & never made it wonder why merit promitions & lawsuits by minorities. they got checks up to 20K & back seniotity up to 10 years. in some cases way before they were even on the job. lets hope the new boss will stop all this crap. maybe get the job back to where it used to be. go to work & not get stabbed in the back
Clout never dies/ goes to jail like Meahler Unit 191 Intel his clout is Blagobitch. Mikey Keep watching the biker gangs and labor unions while Flash Mobs ruin Near North Oak Street.
....what you have to push around a beat car. Shut the fuk up and deal with it. We work KB. Stay off the blog
Merit promotions started in 1990 with the detectives. 30 percent were merit.
Bull shit always has been clout. Are you nuts- 30% up front then another 50% are invited to special classes where they receive the answers -Then their are those who just receive the answers at home. The Clarks brother and sister- were in the same Lt. class both receive the same score???? You have about a 20% chance of making a test on your own.
5/07/2011 10:15:00 PM
Actually it's worse than that. You have to compete for the 20% of remaining spots available after all the merit and cheating clout. So you have far less than a 20% chance of getting promoted legitimately.
This is good! Maybe he'll do this with the rest of the rank and file becaus i would like to know how I ranked amongst my peers on each test i took.
This is the only agency that doesn't list test scores openly.. Go figure!!!!
I CAN pass a test said...
How about that GREAT guy Wysinger who was going to get THE spot?
MERIT ALL THE WAY.
E-V-E-R-Y PROMOTION.
Ohhhhhh, I,m sorrry.
He is a great guy.
Exactly, Wysinger, Andrews, Staples, Murphy, the list goes on and on, nice people but nice doesn't cut it. The process should be fair and equitable for all. Why would anyone go out and bust their asses, risk their lives and lively hood when they know they have no fair shot to move up higher than Detective or Sergeant. On top of that you have to watch people do little or nothing rise to the top, get huge paychecks while most of us struggle to make ends meet. I have nothing against any person it particular but the system is wrought with corruption.
Porky said...
It's a lot - not alot said...
Who is this Lt Schmear guy and where did he work at? And where does he work now? Who is his clout? Or is he a legit guy?
5/05/2011 09:01:00 PM
He is a worker. Worked with him in the Third District, he was one of the Fighting Third Herd members, almost cult like, these guys went out there and busted ass. Great guy! He is more of what we need on this job. They call him the Golden One because he is like Midas - everything he touches turns to gold.
5/06/2011 06:22:00 AM
Sounds like you write and believe your own BULLSH%T... Another Hack ...
Scoring high on a promotional exam, doesn't mean you will be an effective supervisor. (book sense doesn't equal common sense)
Yeah right.......
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