Shooting Near 010 (UPDATED)
- One man was arrested for shooting at another down the street from a West Side Chicago police station Thursday night, police said, citing preliminary information.
The second man, who told police he was being shot at, also was taken into custody when officers caught up with him and found a gun in his possession, police added.
That sequence of events started about 8 p.m. at West Ogden and South Sawyer avenues, near the Ogden District police station, 3315 W. Ogden Ave.
UPDATE: It seems this wasn't gunfire at all, but rather the heat. You see, the sun heats the plastic in the garbage cans during the warm day, then the rapid cooling when the sun goes down sounds like the "pop pop pop" of gunfire. As a precaution though, police officials have notified Rahm and citizens are being asked to remove themselves from the North Lawndale area.
And it wasn't gangs either, so get that silly idea out of your head. There are no gangs in North Lawndale. Or Little Village. Or Garfield Park. Or Englewood, Austin, and certainly not at the lakefront, so knock it off.
And it wasn't gangs either, so get that silly idea out of your head. There are no gangs in North Lawndale. Or Little Village. Or Garfield Park. Or Englewood, Austin, and certainly not at the lakefront, so knock it off.
Labels: silly people
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
79 Comments:
Very Good!
We do this work and they want to take away our pension. Walk in our shoes for a day, if anyone deserves a pension we do.....
mcpuppet needs too get rahms hand out of his ass and be a boss... that probably wont happen enjoy 4 year of these over paid hacks..
I MISS PHIL CLINE....
you guys crack me up......
off topic--- if I decide to grow my goatee back, is that considered acceptable now? I'm all for giving the new boss the benefit of the doubt, but can't help but notice his beard... I"m NOT taking a shot at him; rather, I hope that he will revamp our outdated and and poorly enforced "no facial hair but feel free to have tattoos and long hair and not bathe" code.... A guy next to me in roll call last week had bob marley hair. Would a little scruff be so bad?
Glad everyone is okay, but come on, there was a time when that stuff would never have happened never a police district. Especially at the old fighting Third Herd! We had great guys like Rusty Jones, Hugh Rexion, Amamanda Hugg and Pat Schmear, and they would have his the roof if somebody tried to diss the Third herd crew! - Patti
O.T.---Could that new A&E Missing Persons, First 48 show been more of a fucking joke! 99% of the people working in SVU in Area 1 are completely fucking useless!
You don't really expect a police department short some 2000 policemen give or take, should give a flying fuck about a missing gang banger who was previously charged with a murder.
We need help with the real policework, not following some do nothing SVU dicks who don't do shit but get mad a coppers for not having the juvenile arrestees aniamls parents waiting to pick up pookie as he sits for 4 hours after getting caught with a jab of blows!
Det. L.S. was touched by some savage saying he fell in love with the suicidal girl first time he laid eyes on her, are you fucking kidding me? This is how we want our dicks portrayed on national fucking tv? What an embarrassment!
Our federal court just ruled that the taxpayers will be paying the attorneys' fees for the prevailing party in the recent gun suit against the City. The City spent a considerable sum of money on their own attorneys and now they are paying opposing counsel as well. What a waste of taxpayers dollars.
All the talk of how broke the City is and we throw money away. Where is the accountablity?
The next waste of taxpayer dollars will occur if the City and State change the pensions of incumbant employees. Whether the millionaires behind the Commerical Club of Chicago like it or not, the fact is the State Constitution clearly prohibits the type of changes being proposed by that organization as evidenced by numerous legal opinions and the legislative history.
The result will be the same. The attorneys will win and more precious public dollars will be handed over to attorneys trying to defend an unconsitutional law.
Maybe they just don't care, after all some of the Commercial Club's rich members are from big law firms. Again, who is accountable?
LOL
umm...are we still doing that "warrior" thing?
Patricia Whaggen said...
Glad everyone is okay, but come on, there was a time when that stuff would never have happened near a police district. Especially at the old fighting Third Herd! We had great guys like Rusty Jones, Hugh Rexion, Amamanda Hugg and Pat Schmear, and they would have his the roof if somebody tried to diss the Third herd crew! - Patti
6/03/2011 07:48:00 AM
I worked with some of these names - legends, pure and simple.
Anonymous said...
O.T.---Could that new A&E Missing Persons, First 48 show been more of a fucking joke! 99% of the people working in SVU in Area 1 are completely fucking useless!
You don't really expect a police department short some 2000 policemen give or take, should give a flying fuck about a missing gang banger who was previously charged with a murder.
We need help with the real policework, not following some do nothing SVU dicks who don't do shit but get mad a coppers for not having the juvenile arrestees aniamls parents waiting to pick up pookie as he sits for 4 hours after getting caught with a jab of blows!
Det. L.S. was touched by some savage saying he fell in love with the suicidal girl first time he laid eyes on her, are you fucking kidding me? This is how we want our dicks portrayed on national fucking tv? What an embarrassment!
**********************************
Most of the time the arresting officers are screwing up the paper work and the detectives have to clean up their mess. It is the arresting officers job to get in contact with a parent or a guardian!! Read the order!
G.F. Mac-Daddy says:
STOP IT SCC.
"You are starting to piss me off!"
Of course, the North Shore suburban liberals and liberals in general say we (the cops and Republicans) are the problem.
Animals who are raised by other animals are the problem.
6/03/2011 07:48:00 AM
AWESOME!
They were gathering for the gunfight at the Jose-K corral
First 48 - Missing Persons.
Chicago Code
Well, is hollywood and reality any different? Neither can EVER hold a candle to The Wire (I'll just watch the reruns instead).
Scheduled promotions to detective and Sgt. but it was canceled because of the "heat".
This transparency is just like the white house, is there even more transparency coming out of City Hall or 35th St.?
We had great guys like Rusty Jones, Hugh Rexion, Amamanda Hugg and Pat Schmear, and they would have his the roof if somebody tried to diss the Third herd crew! - Patti
I remember that crew tooi, way back in the day, when the El Rukins were running things. What good memories we had. The fighting Third Herd should have a party like the West Lawn Operators, the Gresham Seals and the Englewood Rangers and Monroe warriors do. - DTEB
O.T.---Could that new A&E Missing Persons, First 48 show been more of a fucking joke! 99% of the people working in SVU in Area 1 are completely fucking useless!
True, ALL Area One Detectives are mostly useless as are the beat coppers trying to do a thankless job with little to no resources.
Still, Area One Detectives are doing a job that would make any citizen puke and cry themselves to sleep every night. They are also considered to have some of the finest Detectives in the department if not the world.
The path to enlightenment is realizing you know nothing and are mostly useless but keep trying to learn everyday.
Never give up
This obviously happened due to the heat? Definitely not gang activity?
"...the rapid cooling when the sun goes down sounds like the 'pop pop pop' of gunfire..."
Aw yaw bogus. Ain' no body shtrappin'. Who you say dat foolitness. Dey jus' poppin' on dey bucket.
Yeah.
Whoo!
The incident in 010 was handled very well by all involved, from the commander on scene all the way down to the last officer. Thank GOD we're all safe and a stray round did not hit an innocent going by or a PO in the station lot. Two offenders, three scenes, and alot of chaos but the officers did a great job. As usual ghetto officers jump in and handle it without any question. Back up came from everywhere, including officers running out of the station. When I see this it makes me proud to be a Chicago Police Officer. Keep the faith, back each other up, this dept. is gonna get better.
OT just want to say, it's kind of nice having the extra cars here in 003. The back up is really great now. Before we couldn't rely on back up for shit (and had nothing to do with being in a rap).
So just want to say thanks guys.
Regarding -03jun2011 0824
Ay, ay, ay, ay, canta y no .
Nailed it, SCC Keep up the hilarious work...
Tomorrow has been canceled for lack of interest and of course...the excessive heat.
Ha Ha! It's going to be 90 today. Close the city. You guys are a riot.
OT --
Just to contrast with this --
The Social Contract
Ohio woman, 100, has bank account dating to 1913
AP
By DOUG WHITEMAN, Associated Press – Fri Jun 3, 6:34 am ET
"CHILLICOTHE, Ohio – An Ohio woman who just turned 100 years old has taken customer loyalty to the extreme: She's still using a bank savings account that's been around almost as long as she has, since the year before World War I.
"June Gregg recently mentioned to a friend that her account is the same one her father opened for her in January 1913..."
Then...
"As a gift, the bank will bump up Gregg's interest rate for the next 100 days to around 5 percent, about 5 times the average going rate..."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap
/20110603/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_determined_
depositor
hey would have his the roof if somebody tried to diss the Third herd crew! - Patti
6/03/2011 07:48:00 AM
Amen to that Patti! missed you at St.Judes but the third herd alumni is going well - did you see made LT and is Rahm's right hand man now? Third Herd, always!
Please have the police vacate all city parks in Lawndale immediately. It is getting too hot out and people may start to pass out in the park. We need to get CFD in there.
On the West Side...
we used to say..
Today's victim is tomorrows offender.
The time frame has been shortened.
And who told McCarthy NOT any MSF or TRU cops back into 010?
But someone has the good sense to send what is left of Area 4 Teams there for a back-up.
I liked the missing persons show. Thought it was a good reflection on the department. The detective did right by relocating girl and baby of gangbanger so they didn't get killed. To the one complaining about the show - hope u work 99 cause u must make it a miserable day in car with your bitchin.
"Today's victim is tomorrow's offender.
"The time frame has been shortened."
--6/03/2011 02:51:00 PM
Yeah, so short it's "simultaneous" now.
"The second man, who told police he was being shot at, also was taken into custody when officers caught up with him and found a gun in his possession."
This is the one who calls the police to report that his marijuana has been stolen...
"Whoo!"
--6/03/2011 12:21:00 PM
There ain't no fool
Like the fool on the corner
To the one complaining about the show - hope u work 99 cause u must make it a miserable day in car with your bitchin.
6/03/2011 03:41:00 PM
just trying to blend in with my environment.
HERE is one brave man --
Soldier Dad Uses Military Training To Stop Bank Robber
Robber was lucky he didn't get his head twisted off. Ran into an Army staff sergeant, five tours...
http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-
soldier-dad-uses-military-
training-to-stop-bank-robber-20110603,0,5011546.story
No demotions of command staff until the political hacks have
3 yrs in grade to receive Gold Braid Pension . That's the Chicago way , blue shirts have to pay.
I liked the missing persons show. Thought it was a good reflection on the department. The detective did right by relocating girl and baby of gangbanger so they didn't get killed. To the one complaining about the show - hope u work 99 cause u must make it a miserable day in car with your bitchin.
6/03/2011 03:41:00 PM
TV can't show the truth. The citizenry would say it was all made up and could never happen the way it REALLY happens.
Most of the time the arresting officers are screwing up the paper work and the detectives have to clean up their mess. It is the arresting officers job to get in contact with a parent or a guardian!! Read the order!
6/03/2011 09:22:00 AM
ACTUALLY, it's the arresting officers job to ATTEMPT to get ahold of a parent or guardian, now YOU read the order. Typical useless SVU.
>>>Anonymous said...
off topic--- if I decide to grow my goatee back, is that considered acceptable now? I'm all for giving the new boss the benefit of the doubt, but can't help but notice his beard... I"m NOT taking a shot at him; rather, I hope that he will revamp our outdated and and poorly enforced "no facial hair but feel free to have tattoos and long hair and not bathe" code.... A guy next to me in roll call last week had bob marley hair. Would a little scruff be so bad?
6/03/2011 06:36:00 AM<<<
You can also be a civilian...
this is he second time in two years where there has been a shooting out in front o the station. Last one a couple of years ago on 3rd watch the offender ran through the lot dropping his gun and making good his escape. It's good to see everyone responding and making sure everybody was caught. Also, without the MSF resources anymore, the 010 th dist will be going up for grabs this summer.
shootings outside 10th district may have been prevented with
mr daleys 5 police body guards
It's only going to get worse
Mc Puppet. Wait til they start the lib jabs with you and Rahmbo.
I thought the 48 show was decent but i guess you like seeing us portrayed as overweight bartender beaters, drunk drivers, and home invaders better. I agree with the other poster, you must be a treat to work with.
Det. L.S. was touched by some savage saying he fell in love with the suicidal girl first time he laid eyes on her, are you fucking kidding me? This is how we want our dicks portrayed on national fucking tv? What an embarrassment!
6/03/2011 08:24:00 AM
We are a fucking joke. Not only a joke but a bitch who gets sued and imprisoned ala Cozzi, the sgt. down south facing felony charges, for doing a thankless job on THE STREETS where shit gets really crazy. But hey, the judges and prosecutors dont have to worry about being sued or imprisoned regarding the decisions they make while they are safe inside drinking coffee and deliberating over things. We really are a joke and a biitch that society slaps around from time to time. Enjoy the show!
I was by the high school at Polk and a little west of California and the animals were fucking out. All in jeans and white t-shirts, wandering into traffic. One almost walked right into the side of my car, not paying any attention while jivin' up to the other fuckheads. This country is in serious, serious trouble.
Seriously what kind of change did constant handouts bring about? They're just bolder now because of the new prez. Still acting like animals, getting free shit while I have to clip coupons.
Un-fucking, fucking, fucking real.
Put the school dismissals on the MSM, and we'd have a Republican president again next time around.
Did you see what the new school supe is making? What's our new idiot making, and why isn't it on the news????
Off Topic:
1800 hrs., North Avenue Beach has flared up again! Be careful on the sand, guys, it's got teeth!
Rumor has it that some exempts were on the second floor at Homan last night. Schmear and ol rubberneck apparently not too happy with the desk crew. Stay safe officers and remember summer is upon us!
Actually SCC there were some gangs in Lawndale. They were passing through on their way back home to Naperville.
Wow SCC. I heard on the radio today that there have been at least 4 incidents of people being first attacked with mace, then robbed in the 23rd district.
What is going on out there? It seems like we don't have enough police, or people know there are no consequences or maybe both?
he fighting Third Herd should have a party like the West Lawn Operators, the Gresham Seals and the Englewood Rangers and Monroe warriors do. - DTEB
6/03/2011 10:36:00 AM
What the hell is this?
Are you on crack at 1030 in the morning? Dude, get to rehab and quick too!
Hey...Did you guys hear?
The brand new 2.5 liter lazer sighted special police edition crime fighting super-soakers are in and they're gonna be handing them out at the outdoor roll-call on Saturday !!!
All those who have received the appropriate heat safety training step on up.
pew-pew-pew-pew...woot! so excited.
Summer in the City -- Joe Cocker (youtube)
I liked the missing persons show. Thought it was a good reflection on the department. The detective did right by relocating girl and baby of gangbanger so they didn't get killed. To the one complaining about the show - hope u work 99 cause u must make it a miserable day in car with your bitchin.
6/03/2011 03:41:00 PM
Actually douche, I work on a tact team in Area 1 and yes, it does make me miserable to see the A/1SVU dicks glorified, when right next door the RBT and HGSCU dicks are some of the best around if not on the job.
And yes it does make me miserable to see the SVU dicks glorified when more often than not the experiences dealing with most, not all, i.e Sgt J.D., are painful.
Just to clarify , to the obvious SVU dick that it is b/c of coppers paperwork fuckups, are you fucking serious? and yes I realize the order states to exhaust all efforts in contacting the parent of the animal, but my job is not a fucking babysitter for the little shit and I don't enjoy being held captive by some fuck like you.
I by no means feel that the job of detective is easy one, my point was just that I realize the department was and is skeptical about letting our department be filmed. Having said that, SVU is the last place I would start. So , I guess to address your miserable statement , your right when it comes to glorifying those that don't deserve it, but so goes the CPD.
screw the the tourist and the walfare animals i have live here all my life..they should be taking care of the taxes paying home owners.. our kids hardly can use the parks or the schools and we pay high taxes on everything.. if they dont like it go somewhere else..
this beach problem is cause by king daley is two favorite groups(welfare abuser and yuppie tourist) cant get along togather and who left to deal with it us the tax paying citizen of chicago who receive one tenth of we deserve..besides we do we have time to go to the beach anyway were always fucking working to pay for these assholes..taxes us more and take our pension..
"......O.T.---Could that new A&E Missing Persons, First 48 show been more of a fucking joke! 99% of the people working in SVU in Area 1 are completely fucking useless!..."
What does it take for a 'merit promoted' SVU detective to take a notification or even come out?
Granted the D-Unit citywide is short, but in 25 years of doing missing persons case reports, calling in the notification is still and will always be a drag.
Yeah, the A&E show is baloney. Chicago, (home of the gullible) probably believes what they seen on this program. (Just like A3 hunting down R.J. Vanecko.)
Because follow-ups weren't done due to manpower shortage, some wild youth wanders away from an incestuous crackhouse, winds up dead along railroads tracks, and now there's all out search being conducted for every poor soul that doesn't want to come home.
Even though the Detective Divisions citywide are short,
remember this America..." area detectives are investigating and nobody is in custody."
This Department is so screwed up by the appointed of Lord Daley,Shanks of Short.
.
Take it easy on the SVU detectives. There are good and bad detectives in SVU, just as there are in HGS and RBT. there are some HGS diks who are never assigned a homicide because they don't know how and aren't trusted. See who is always sent out to the crime scenes. Some people are in HGS because of clout and nothing else. Same with RBT. There are some detectives in SVU who were the working police in patrol but didn't have the phone call to get to HGS or RBT. Do you really think bosses are looking at resumes and arrest statistics when they assign people to different detective sections?
There are incompetents everywhere, including asshats who splurge on this blog disparaging fellow officers. someday that officer may be the closest officer when you are calling for help.
also remember, the detectives, on a daily basis, have to clean up messes caused by p.o.s. we also read every case report generated in the field. and there is some really bad case reporting going on. many p.o.s have had their asses saved in court and at corp counsel by a detective supplementary report. an old fto told me, you can do great police work, but you have to know how to write it on paper and know how to articulate it in court to be a good police officer.
learn the laws. know the orders. CYA. and don't blame the diks for your screwups and incompetencies. and don't expect the diks to do your work. you do yours. the diks will do theirs. that's when it all works out right.
From: det_moran@hotmail.com
To: nsteinberg@suntimes.com
Subject: My Mistake
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 21:11:27 -0500
Neil, (Chicago Sun Times)
I started reading your column on Friday June 3 rd, I was relieved when I read past the first paragraph which ended that they were sniffing each others butts. When this paragraph started with the Palmer House, a banquet setting, and piano players all I thought about was the good old days of piano bars until the butt sniffing started. I thought you were talking about an after "wedding" celebration from Millennium Park. I was just "appalled" that you might be making fun of the wedding and butt sniffing. Well take care Neil, I'll be taking to you.
Barrett J. Moran
.
OT - Is it true that Bret Goldstein resigned?
Even tho I used to work SVU and do Missings, I will not even bother to tune in. Anyone that expects TV to be real has some issues.
With over 20,000 Missing Persons Reports a year, and the vast majority are from a small number of juveniles, it is just "keep the boxes moving." One kid had over 40 reports in 1 year.
The parents (or foster parents) don't really care. They report the kid missing because they have to keep the stipend coming. And they also believe that, having reported the kid missing to the police, the police are liable if anything happens to the kid. Just CYA.
The group homes tell them, when they get to rowdy, to take a walk and cool off. The kids are reported missing to cover the staff's ass.
So if the Sup decides to keep his goatee, because he is a civilian, than he will never wear the uniform because he is a civilian. 10-4 got it. Lets see if he sticks to it.
Most of the time the arresting officers are screwing up the paper work and the detectives have to clean up their mess. It is the arresting officers job to get in contact with a parent or a guardian!! Read the order!
6/03/2011 09:22:00 AM
ACTUALLY, it's the arresting officers job to ATTEMPT to get ahold of a parent or guardian, now YOU read the order. Typical useless SVU.
6/03/2011 04:57:00 PM
Don't have the orders in front of me, but I think they say more than that. And, then, don't they also involve the desk sergeant's responsibility to make the 'attempt', too? (which translates to 'delegate to the arresting officer')
Still remember the old-timer who walked a kid into the youth office and said, "He's all yours now" and walked out. He was shocked, SHOCKED, I say, when he was called back in off the street and told the days of youth guys doing the paper were long gone.
Oh, how I the J-cards and the special-order cabinets made just to hold them. Not.
Anonymous said...
On the West Side...
we used to say..
Today's victim is tomorrows offender.
The time frame has been shortened.
And who told McCarthy NOT any MSF or TRU cops back into 010?
But someone has the good sense to send what is left of Area 4 Teams there for a back-up.
6/03/2011 02:51:00 PM
GMAC says you don't need any TRU or MSF guys cause those aren't gangbangers they are just suburban kids enjoying the nice weather.
Anonymous said...
this is he second time in two years where there has been a shooting out in front o the station. Last one a couple of years ago on 3rd watch the offender ran through the lot dropping his gun and making good his escape. It's good to see everyone responding and making sure everybody was caught. Also, without the MSF resources anymore, the 010 th dist will be going up for grabs this summer.
6/03/2011 05:11:00 PM
There was also a homicide on the sidewalk of the west lot two tears ago. Offender caught after a chase that ended near Marquette park.
...Still, Area One Detectives are doing a job that would make any citizen puke and cry themselves to sleep every night. They are also considered to have some of the finest Detectives in the department if not the world.
The path to enlightenment is realizing you know nothing and are mostly useless but keep trying to learn everyday.
Never give up
6/03/2011 10:53:00 AM
good for you...I see you as more of the problem in our country nowadays, sad to say. There are two words that quickly come to mind, ummm...entitlement is one, the other is enabler...funny how that works - right Detective? Maybe you can help the other dics with their cases instead of trying to make a case numerous 'activists' are all too willing to make.
also remember, the detectives, on a daily basis, have to clean up messes caused by p.o.s. we also read every case report generated in the field.
I agree there is some bad case reporting going on, but... ruffled some feathers, huh big city detectives?
No demotions of command staff until the political hacks have
3 yrs in grade to receive Gold Braid Pension . That's the Chicago way , blue shirts have to pay.
6/03/2011 04:32:00 PM
ACTUALLY, the Acting Supe is waiting for city council confirmation, which should come next week, barring any revolts. The changes will then come and everyone will be in or out of place by July 1st.
Oh, how I the J-cards and the special-order cabinets made just to hold them. Not.
6/03/2011 11:55:00 PM
Miss. How I MISS. What I missed was proofreading my post and I missed the missing 'miss'.
(It must be the heat. Gonna blame everything on the heat for awhile, I think.)
The group homes tell them, when they get to rowdy, to take a walk and cool off. The kids are reported missing to cover the staff's ass.
6/03/2011 11:12:00 PM
The group homes are not allowed to lay hands on the little darlings, either, so, if the kid walks out, they cannot restrain them from leaving. Then the home makes a missing report.
Experienced beat guys don't pull the rd until the very last possible moment, because so many of the kids come sauntering back in while the report's being done.
Still, hundreds of unnecessary reports are generated each month. What we need is a policy that won't allow the homes to file a report til a kid age 12 or over has been missing a minimum requirement of six or eight hours.
And NO report if the home knows where the kid is. If the kid has gone back to their house, their family, etc., then it should be an internal DCFS memo, not a missing persons report. It isn't a police matter and we shouldn't have to shill for DCFS or the privately funded halfway houses.
Sounds like the old Monty python Bit. "Whatever I am I'm not KGB" and the always loved "its dead its a dead parrot Hello birdy" "Its not dead its just sleeping" So in the same reference whatever they were they were'nt gang members.There not dead from gunshots there resting. Fiction become reality only in chicago. you tube parrot sketch.
Who is Pat Schemar?is he related to Paula Schmear?Paula works in 001?Where does Pat work?How is it that both Schmears are Lieutenants? I assume they are a heavy family then...
Anonymous said...
Who is Pat Schemar?is he related to Paula Schmear?Paula works in 001?Where does Pat work?How is it that both Schmears are Lieutenants? I assume they are a heavy family then...
6/04/2011 07:00:00 AM
I put Schmear on my bagel in the morning and Dr Pap Schmear was a character in the "Naked Gun" movies.
I guess that name is better than Schmuck (sorry Ron) or PPO Doodoo (true--look him up)
I MISS PHIL CLINE....
6/03/2011 04:15:00 AM
Me, too.
MKH
"off topic--- if I decide to grow my goatee back, is that considered acceptable now?"
Grow some balls, will ya?
The civilian acting Sup has a goatee.
This is the biggest problem facing the CPD today?
Grow up!
35th St Birdie said...
No demotions of command staff until the political hacks have
3 yrs in grade to receive Gold Braid Pension . That's the Chicago way , blue shirts have to pay.
6/03/2011 04:32:00 PM
ACTUALLY, the Acting Supe is waiting for city council confirmation, which should come next week, barring any revolts. The changes will then come and everyone will be in or out of place by July 1st.
And then you will really see how
f--cked up this department will get.
Think things are bad now....
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