Lawsuit Promised
Granted, it's anonymous on a public blog, but he makes a good point:
- If I may indulge the readers of SCC please excuse any ramblings here as I have not made it to bed yet from last night. I am a retired Sgt and we knew this was coming from the PAPB. Several retired Sgts informed the PAPB not to negotiate away any of our pension benefits. But it fell on deaf ears.
Weeks ago I contacted an attorney who specializes in labor issues. Normally the courts will not intervene until a party has become harmed. The firm we plan on using wants to first send a letter to the PABB asking them to Cease and Desist any actions that would harm any retired Sgt. or any active duty Sgt currently employed. We believe that the Executive Board of the PAPB will ignore the retirees and will allow all active duty Sgts. to vote on this proposal. If the PAPB membership votes in the affirmative on this then we will ask the court for a Restraining Order in that this proposal in itself is in violation of the State Constitution and the PAPB has no standing to negotiate away our rights. Upon any Act of Furtherance at this point by the PAPB we will be forced to sue the PAPB. Since the PAPB has almost no assets, after the embezzlement of the former President of the PAPB, the members of the board and any area or unit representative that voted in the affirmative would have to be a litigants otherwise there would be no chance of recouping our costs.
I spent last night on the phone with retirees from the Fort Meyers/Naples, Mountain Home, Las Vegas, and Phoenix areas. We have retired Sgts. from all of those areas that want to be part of this process. What we are trying to do is to quickly compile a list of as many names as possible of retired Sgts. for the letter to the PAPB.
Should the active members of the PAPB vote in the affirmative on this then we will ask all police retirees, regardless of rank, to join as plaintiffs. We will try to have our own informational web site up by Sunday and will run an informational meeting at Lone Tree Manor 7730 N. Milwaukee Ave where the Northside Retiree breakfast is held. We will ask every retired Sgt for one hundred dollars. Should the PABA continue we will have a much larger meeting than the FOP hall could hold and will use something like the Plumber’s Hall or Teamster City and ask every retiree, regardless of rank, to join us.
This whole process is completely unnecessary. Getting in bed with city first makes the PAPB look like a cheap whore.
The FOP has always made a point that they don't represent the retirees. That's why retirees don't get to vote on the labor contracts and retirees aren't part of the bargaining committee. Pensions and such are regulated by State Law, not the Fraternal Order.
So how does the PBPA get this deeply involved in retiree business, to the point that they will go down to Springfield with the mayor and support bills introduced by the City that directly affect retirees and run counter to the Illinois Constitution?
This is the biggest issue. The mayor will use this as a wedge, in contract meetings, at arbitration hearings, in the press, etc. The PBPA will be painted as the bad guys as is already happening in our comment sections yesterday - we've seldom seen the amount of vitriol and degradation in such a short time frame that yesterday's "FOP Not Happy" post generated.
And the sergeants haven't even gotten a ballot yet to vote on this proposal - it's not a done deal yet.
Labels: contract stuff, from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
275 Comments:
I'm a long time sgt and I don't like what I saw. It's NO as far as my vote is concerned.
Ade and the PAPB board realize all the above SCC.
That's why there's a paragraph in the proposal regarding legal assistance from Rahm in case the retirees go on the warpath and sue.
Ade was promised something by that twirpy, narrow-shouldered, sulphur smelling northshore shit-ass...
This thing stinks to high Heaven.
welcome to the contraction.
10,000 babyboomers a day pulling out of the labor force.
this bet cant be covered, even if they had funded to 100%.
it was a lie (ponsi scheme) from the start and all this is just kicking the can down the road.
you better have a plan B.
While you were talking to your high powered labor attorney he shouldve figured out that all of the pension issues were not part of Cba anyway. As usual no one knows what the hell they are talking about. And a big thanks to all the retirees that stood idly by while our pension fund was raided year after year to the point of near bankruptcy. Im glad you cant vote anymore you have done enough damage.
Here is the last paragraph to the agreement:
Hold Harmless:
City to offer representation and hold Sergeants Union harmless in event of litigation from retirees challenging pension changes.
What this means is when the lawsuits against the union come in, the city will pay any damages if neccessary.
ssc,
ALL sergeants were sent a copy of the agreement by dept email from James Ade.
It sould be okay for you to print it now for the readers.
Idont think that the PBPA can change pension benefits for those already retired
Riddle me this, why would a Lt. assigned to the Marine Unit/Helicopter Unit as the C.O. elect to be reassigned to 005 as the field Lt?
Answer: He wouldn't!!
all of you young cement head coppers better pay attention to this--- if the city gets their way with the sgts it will set a precedent with us the blue boys in future negotiations---
I think Ade thought this would be a no brainer! He thought that all the Sgts would drink the coolaid. Now I see he will have informational meetings in the next couple of days to explain the proposed contract. Jim this should have been done first. Jim do you think we are stupid? I think Jim Ade should go to the Lone Tree meeting and explain it there since he states it will not effect current retirees! One last thing!! Whats the rush to get the ballots out and back! Sounds like the Obama care deal! Like my girl nancy said "You have to vote for it to see whats really in it!" Dont forget that Jim Ade was the main person behind the health screenings! Does he really think that Rahm gives a shit about our health? This will come back to bite you in the ass!!! The Sgt board vote on this without it being voted on by the members! Jim whose interest do you really serve????
That's where this needs to be before the courts.
Rahm thinks he's slick in bamboozling a smaller union.
He then can use that union in his dog and pony show and portray all other unions as greedy and unreasonable.
Fuck you Rahm. You're a slimy,union busting, bastard.
Anonymous said...
Lets look at this age 53..Very few retire at this age..Most will do the extra 2 for the health-care...So why 53???? Because it is the camels nose in the tent...Once the city is allowed to change the Pension for current cops its over for even those retired...
2/13/2013 10:29:00 PM
Hey... Is it PAPB, PABB or....PBPA?? Wtf man... Tired or not.. You were allegedly a supervisor so you should at least proofread your comment before making a complete fool of yourself. We, active sergeants will most assuredly vote this down so I would not worry too much... It is a horse shit "agreement" if you even want to refer to it as such.. There is NO FUCKING WAY this will pass. Shame on you Jim Aide for selling police officers out... Not just the sergeants but the entire police department with your "look at me" deal with Mr Emanuel... Please resign ASAP we no longer trust you and certainly do not need you if this is your agenda for us...
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
So you guys do a class action law suit? You get nothing while the lawyers take the lion's share.
I am a retired PO and this is the first thing I've hear that makes sense since the sergeants association announced their wonderful "deal" with their newfound friend.
I suggest your attorney contact the attorney handling the Korshak aggreement. They are Krislov Law, Clinton A. Krislov principal attorney. Their specialty is class action lawsuits and this has every indication of turning into one huge class action effecting all of us.
As a class action firm they generally do not need up front money, for Korshak I believe they were paid out of the settlement by the City.
KRISLOV LAW
20 North Wacker Drive, Suite 1350
Chicago, IL 60606
Tel: 312.606.0500 | Fax: 312.606.0207
Email: mail@krislovlaw.com
Finally! I always wondered why you didn't sue for pension benefits. For years the State has not contributed while you were forced to. Now if you would start voting en masse maybe the politicians would start paying attention to you again.
-private citizen who supports the po-po.
I would like to thank the retiree's for their efforts to defeat this. If FOP try's anything like this, I can assure you I too will vote it down. When we marched around the hall, I saw a good number of retiree's in that crowd, it's nice to know some still have heart and are willing to fight rather than give in to wealthy, thieving politicians who have yet to keep promises made. What kind of fools would actually believe them this time?
Oh yeah, sue the bastards. Let all those sergeants who now staunchly defend the agreement start writing checks for legal defense.
Take your $1,000 payoff and 45 minutes a day and duty availability and uniform allowance and sign it over to the lawyers defending your shit union from the legal onslaught sure to come.
Don't sign that lease on that new BMW or Mercedes Benz just yet.
Any lawsuit against the PBPA will be dismissed.
The PBPA cannot pass laws
They cannot diminish pension rights
This threat is BS
This is the big issue. I belong to a labor union with some city employees but most on the outside. Those members on the outside have a pension which went unscathed after the crash. I asked my President if we, the retired city employees were represented by the Union, and he said no. The union has a fiduciary duty to it's rank and file, but after you retire, they hand you off. We are on our own. As retired members of individual unions, we will fall one at a time. We need to organize as a group, all retired individuals, or they will throw us to the wolves. Here's am idea for anyone who wants to sue. Name all TIF districts in Cook County as defendants, along with anyone else you may think of. All the money skimmed from the tax rolls is potential payments into the pension system. It's sitting in banks right now, and a sympathetic judge may order it frozen for the duration of any court proceeding. That should get some attention.
The whole pension prgram is a scam. It will be broke in less than ten years.
off topic- will any ohare sgt please pull ohare tact big belly bob out of the restaurants on manhiem rd and answer jobs in the airport. Sgts please shut him up about not having any time on the job and that dugan got him the ohare spot and soon to be meritorious phone call sgt promotion, its embarrassing!!!!!!
While I would like to see the suit filed, if the following is true, then this point is moot:
Anonymous said...
The newspaper today said that these pensions reforms on the sergeants' contract will be for current employees and future retirees . Those already retired are not affected by this.
2/13/2013 08:26:00 PM
Off the subject but, did you see the memo out that now requires all CPD Officers to disarm upon entering CCJ property when bringing prisoners to the jail? If you have a M-4 in the trunk you have to take that out also and turn it over to the Jail Guards.
Anonymous said...
Here is the last paragraph to the agreement:
Hold Harmless:
City to offer representation and hold Sergeants Union harmless in event of litigation from retirees challenging pension changes.
What this means is when the lawsuits against the union come in, the city will pay any damages if neccessary.
2/14/2013 01:05:00 AM
Why should taxpayers be responsible for this?
If you decide to sue, where do you sue? State Court? Good luck with that. Federal Court? Who do you think nominated those judges.
Let me know the web site and my dad and I will join in!
Seems our union has taken it upon them selfs to screw us. These very same leaders and politicians say the economy is better and the market is over 14000 PTS, more jobs created than needed but for the government employee sir you are scum you and your benefit package has ruined ths city's economy and can not afford to give you your pension that you earned or a raise or anything else. But we do have money for pet projects such as the NEW Daley high school on 47 & Damen or a new Maggie Daley park or 100 million for a new river walk along wackier drive even though we just spent several hundred million but don't like how it turned out. Their will always be something more important than giving the employee their fair share, I wonder will you Mayor give up your pension and the 20 million you made when you left the White House. I hope shields sees this and reads this statement. Take head oh fearless leaders you can be a hero or a bum the choice is yours so choose wisely!
It's a real shame it takes a "civilian" lawyer to rattle the cage of the city. Too bad our FOP is a paper tiger. Unable to do what WE pay them to. It's a business people. They don't care one way or another. They (FOP) are out for their own benefit, not yours.
Your dues pays for golf outtings, fishing contests, lunches, trips, gas, gifts and a plentitude of other perks. None of which benefit you: the member.
As an organization, we have no bite, no power of negotiation, no say in matters. FOP simply puts up a front and acts like your friend. Placing blame for their ineptitude on the city's cheap and unrelenting tactics. It's all smoke and mirrors.
WAKE UP!!! Personally, I'd rather have all the dues I've paid into this useless organization back. I could use the money for the services of a "civilian" lawyer.
Did not the FOP forgive the Pension payment of millions during a previous contract years ago? Precedent set?
This is great and I'm sure a large majoriety of FOP members will join you. I don't care that this Sgt. Ade clown says "the pension is not part of the CBA." Just the fact that they said they support Rahm and will back him in springfiled is BS. This is the politicians mess not OURS! We police officers put into the pension every two weeks and that's the last we see of the money until retirement. They messed it up with corruption, bad investments, poor management, theft, underfunding, and lies. Getting in bed with Rahm on the pension is the crack in the foundation Rahm is looking for. So what will be next? How can you guys trust the city? City hall is the lying capital of America.
How are retired Sgts. harmed?
I understand current Sgts. will be asked to pay 12% toward pension, but retired Sgts. do not pay this.
??
Hasn't there been legislation already passed requiring that the City *finally* begin funding the pension more fully, as it should have been doing all these years? If the Pension Fund managers are so concerned about the current distributions, why aren't I reading pleas from them for changes, why not get rid of "heart bill" and other disability related free rides? And why wouldn't current retirees sue? You (plural) base the rest of your life on a certain assumption, you betcha you're going to seek redress when someone tries to steal it back from you. Raise our contributions? When Social Security contributors pay only 6.2, and we've been paying 9% how long?
Will somebody get Rahms people off of this site and stop their posting! It's easy to pick them out their always saying take it it's a good deal or that's the best we're going to get!
Bull you don't know until you try?
How can the city have money for every project they want and a billion dollars in TIFF but nothing for the little guy!
Oh when you spend more on welfare and illegials, free schooling, free medical free rent free cell phones.
When you have more people living off of free programs than people paying taxes you are going to loose basic economics Rahm. Time to start cutting the free bees and kick the illegals out!
There are a ton of comments regarding this PROPOSED contract with the sergeants. Let me remind everyone of one thing no one seems to be talking about. Under current Illinois State Law regarding the pension, anyone born in 1955 or later, the vast majority of us, are only going to get a 1 1/2 percent COLA. Raising the amount to 3% was done on a vote for five year increments. This practice has stopped and the last group that will receive a 3% COLA, as the law now stands, are those born in 1954 or earlier. Keep this in mind as to look at the overall proposal.
Anonymous said...
Lets look at this age 53..Very few retire at this age..Most will do the extra 2 for the health-care...So why 53???? Because it is the camels nose in the tent...Once the city is allowed to change the Pension for current cops its over for even those retired...
2/13/2013 10:29:00 PM
You're not getting it. There IS no more free healthcare for the "55 and out" crowd. That's been taken away in this contract, which is why you're now seeing healthcare STARTING OUT will cost every retiree 2 % of the annual pension payments.
Forget about 55 and out. It's gone in this contract and it's gone in all contracts.
There IS no more 55 and out folks. Ther IS no more free healthcare as a means to get rid of the top grossing employees. That train is already gone. They've cut all the fat they could cut with that carrot and they don't need it anymore.
Remove the expectation of 55 and out from your future and start deciding what you are willing to accept today, while you're working.
Start getting into your head you will be PAYING for your own healthcare once you quit this shithole. Once you get your head and finances wrapped around that then NONE of this cocksucker's bullshit means anything anymore. Their "threats" of healthcare don't mean shit because YOU already understand and have lived your life knowing you will be paying for it anyway.
Gone, don't expect anything for free anymore. Start knowing you will be paying for group healthcare under SOME group rate and tell this city to FUCK OFF after you quit.
Anonymous said...
Ade and the PAPB board realize all the above SCC.
That's why there's a paragraph in the proposal regarding legal assistance from Rahm in case the retirees go on the warpath and sue.
Ade was promised something by that twirpy, narrow-shouldered, sulphur smelling northshore shit-ass...
This thing stinks to high Heaven.
2/14/2013 12:14:00 AM
I agree. There has to be something promised to Sgt. Ade from Rahm to do this. The Sgt.'s union has been a mess for so long and It sure doesn't look like it's getting any better to crawl in bed with Rahm. In the past all union leaders seem to get some cush gove. spot after stepping down. Will history repeat itself? I can't believe Ade would strike such a deal. Suspicious.
Show of hands, AS funded not it is NOT sustainable.
That's the purpose of the fucking law which DEMANDS it now be funded.
As to your bullshit allegations that pensions have been diminished in the states you claim, you're a fucking idiot.
Colorado's case revolves SOLELY around COLA adjustments, which were adjustments already baked into their pension. So fuck off for trying to claim their actual pension BENFITS were reduced because THEY WERE NOT, DIPSHIT.
Minnesota NEVER HAD CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS OVER THEIR PENSIONS, FUCKHEAD. In Minnesota, their pensions were defined by statute WITHOUT ANY PROTECTIONS FROM BEING DIMINISHED ANYWHERE IN ANY LAW OR STATE CONSTITUTION.
So, yeah, fucktard, didn't think so.
Go sell your fucking lies elsewhere fucktard because you don't know shit.
Anonymous said...
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
My answer to your question #1 is NO. It is not sustainable. But do you believe that if we put in a little more it will be? That small amount won't make a damm bit of difference. The politicians need to do their part which they haven't for many many years. I want to hear what they will do if we contribute more. The problem with that is how we can we trust them or believe them? They spent the money, stole it, and invested it poorly. Look at the way Illinois is run. How are we to believe that if they attempt to fix the pension it won't be messed up in 15 years and we go through all this again. So go crawl in bed with the city and see what that gets you later on you snakes.
I'm in I just retired let us know what we can do. This isn't just for sergeants this should be for everyone to get involved
Keeping fighting them on all fronts. Involve some media too....if you can find some not up Rahm's ass.
3:40 am - I agree with you and the person questioning the sustainability of our pension. Seriously - think about the big picture and the changes in our economy. Do you really think the City will have the money to support/fund our pension if some adjustments aren't made? I think this is a smart move by our union and as a retiree, I'm grateful someone is using common sense to find a way to keep the pension and make it stronger. Politicians short changed the pension and promised us the no pain yellow brick road to retirement - and we all bought into it. Shame on all the police unions for not standing up to Daley raiding our funds, shame on Michael Shields "Mr. Pension" for not being on top of our pension problems, sounding the alarm and actually doing something about it. I'm not happy about it but fiscally, this agreement makes the most sense in these economic times.
The irony is that most people screaming about this - is that you're all in favor of cutting 'entitlements' and are proudly Republican or Tea Party fans but when it comes to tightening your own belts, you are all squealing like little piglets at the feed pail. The handwriting is on the wall fellows - big business and the public want to rip our pension away from us. It's on us to take measures to ensure it's viability for decades to come. The structure we have now is unsustainable and vulnerable to economic downturns. Do you really want the Feds to one in a few years and tell us the City is bankrupt and we're only getting $.30 on the dollar?
Get your head out of your collective asses and find out the truth!
There is a grest deal of misconception surrounding this issue. Nobody has bargained away anybody's rights or pension, Sgt.'s union has simply agreed to support the city in its attmpts to undo the Constitution, and make serious changes to the pension. You should look at what language the sgts agreed to support as a pretty clear description of what the city will try for. In case some of you did not know, a bill was introduced in one of the houses of the Legislature to amenc the Constitution to alllow changes and diminishment of benefits. If passed by a 3/`5ths majority, it then goes on the ballot at an election and must be approved by 3/5ths of those voting on it. The unfortunate part is that the city may be corrrect in their idea of bringing the fund up to the proper funding level. Incidentally, as far as I can see in the Fund's Annual Reports, the city has not missed its contributions ever.
Now is the time to hold a march to let this fucker rham know that we wont stand for this back door pension move!!!!!!
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works? Yeah, that's what I thought.
If they want to take our pensions we should make them fight for it...not give in like the coward you obviously are.
Well, I am now retired, but I was wondering about what is going on in the suprvisor's unions. It used to be it was difficult at best to get any sergeant or lieutenant to run for the board. They were all afraid that if they were on the board their chances for promotion would be close to zero. Yes, some would come to meetings ( very few) and they would be vocal but they wanted someone else to speak up for them. These scardy cats did not want their names known downtown as " union leaders". Afterall, the city is known for holding a grudge so if you become too vocal as a union leader and stand up for the members your career would be doomed.Whether that observation was actually true before or is true now that is for someone else to decide.
Hey... Is it PAPB, PABB or....PBPA?? Wtf man... Tired or not.. You were allegedly a supervisor so you should at least proofread your comment before making a complete fool of yourself. We, active sergeants will most assuredly vote this down so I would not worry too much... It is a horse shit "agreement" if you even want to refer to it as such.. There is NO FUCKING WAY this will pass. Shame on you Jim Aide for selling police officers out... Not just the sergeants but the entire police department with your "look at me" deal with Mr Emanuel... Please resign ASAP we no longer trust you and certainly do not need you if this is your agenda for us...
2/14/2013 03:23:00 AM
Coming from someone who posted "Jim Aide", your criticism for not proof reading makes you look like a total douchebag.
Billionaire business man Mayor Bloomberg has NYPD cops retiring after 20 years of service regardless of age. So officers leave at 41.
At 50 our youngest retirees are a decade older than NYPD's youngest retirees.
All the other major Departments provide for 50 and out.
CPD officers deserve no less.
Sad that retirees have to worry about thing like this.
We live in a new era of everyone against us!
Citizen are jealous because we are employed
Politician scapegoat us but always have us as body-gaurds
The media just out and out lies with their 5th grad writing skill to sell paper and commercials.
So im hoping to see more active retirees involved at FOP meeting and actually doing some political arm twisting.
or....
you can be the old timers at the FOP meeting gorging pizza and slurping up cold pops while the meeting are in session!
May be the SGT'"S
Could ask for overtime counting to towards are pension.
This would lead too
More arrest by old timers
drop in crime
More revenue
Or uniform allowance and duty availability counted to pension and then the can skip cola on back end!
Looks like Colorado is headed to their Supreme court on the COLA issue.
We Have A Contract for COLA!!!
October 13, 2012
The Colorado Court of Appeals ruled Thursday that PERA retirees have a contract with PERA that includes their annual benefit increases (aka COLA.) The unanimous court wrote:
We agree with plaintiffs, subject to certain limitations explained below. Specifically, we conclude that plaintiffs have a contractual right, but that the court must still determine whether any impairment of the right is substantial and, if so, whether the reduction was reasonable and necessary to serve a significant and legitimate public purpose. Therefore, we reverse the summary judgment and remand the case to the district court for further proceedings.
Anonymous said...
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Other states have different laws concerning their pensions. That is why each state is different regarding pension issues.
Fortunately for us the State of Illinois Constitution protects out pensions.
The State of Illinois Constitution cannot be altered unless a mojority of the populous votes in a general election to approve the opening of that state constitution. This can only be put to the populous once every 20 years. Quinn has tried twice in the past 4 years to accomplish this and failed.
Once by asking the voters to approve the opening of the constitution and the second by asking the voters to approve an ammendment to the constituion. Again, both failed.
Failed because the voters of this state know that the current corrupt politicians of this state would rape and pilage that constitution.
These politicians know that any changes they may make to the pension issues WILL face judicial challenges. Which is why they are trying to end around this any way they can.
Rahm knows that there will be judicial challenges to this wording in the proposed Sgts. contract.
m just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
...................................
What's your point asshat? We completely realize pols stole our pensions and expect us to pay more to cover their asses. We completely realize that, Minnesota and Colorado, liberal, democratic states have been ripped off by the same type of democratic pols. Is your cry..."Welfare States must concede!!!". Screw you troll!!!! We run from job to job, knowing exactly why our clients don't have to work. Do you? Yeah, THAT'S what I thought. Oh, and asshat...give me your definition of successfully, please.
My successor, JAMES "KOOL" ADE can't be trusted.
Drop me a line, guys. I've got an idea.
John Pallohusky, IDOC#M29183
Taylorville Correctional Center
P.O. Box 900
Taylorville, IL 62568
If the PBPA board members put half as much work into our contract that they are now doing with this spin control to keep themselves from being lynched by their fellow Sgts this would be a non issue. I have not seen this much scrambling and running around by this group ever. From the systematic and planned "anonymous" postings on this blog to making phone calls urging Sgts to accept this mess. Wow it just goes to show they can be active I just wish it was the purposes of helping their represented Sgts not just to save their own skin. VOTE NO. Can someone get the ball rolling with "VOTE NO" pins ill contribute put me down for 200 ill pass them out myself...
It's a pragmatic solution. Yes, they screwed up our pension fund, but you are kidding yourselves if you think we will get out of this unscathed.
Retired Sgt.
Not a cop. My only beef is the lawsuits. Where is the fight for some of these cases. Can anyone shed light on the one where the guy was shot on the ground and he was not armed
If you retire at 53, how much is the medical. You need to stay till 55 to be charged 2% of your annuity. No more free medical...
The pension as it currently exists is not sustainable.
Constitutional questions and current laws are irrelevant as the pols will do whatever they wish, especially in Illinois. As for the Sgts. Association " bargaining" the pension-- FOP did it years ago. So, what is the difference. There are items that have to be changed to make it work. Better 85 % of something than 100% of nothing. I remember when FOP forgave those millions and everyone was excited about the " retro" check.
Of course this shit will be voted down (by two votes), but the arbitrator has the blueprint for how to rule when it's FLOPs turn.
The City will be more generous with FLOP and match a 3% increase in member pension contributions and cap the maximum pension annuity at 100% of salary at the time of retirement.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Riddle me this, why would a Lt. assigned to the Marine Unit/Helicopter Unit as the C.O. elect to be reassigned to 005 as the field Lt?
Answer: He wouldn't!!
2/14/2013 02:13:00 AM
Did the prima donna get dumped??
Here's the long and the short of it:
This entire negotiation between the PBPA and the city was ILLEGAL.
For reference, take a look at http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-288.html
Scroll down to NRS 288.150 Negotiations by employer ...
Section 2 clearly defines the limited scope of what this collective bargaining process is limited to
Salary
Sick leave
Vacation
Holidays
Leaves of absence
Insurance
Hours worked per day/week
Days worked in work year
Discharge
Recognition clause
Classification of members
Dues
Protection from discrimination
No strike
Grievances
General Savings clause
Duration of agreement
Employee safety
Teacher prep time
Materials for classroom
Transfer of teachers
Workforce Reduction procedures
Reopening requirements
NOWHERE in that definition of what collective bargaining is LIMITED TO does the law allow for BARGAINING FOR RETIREMENT BENEFITS OR RETIREMENT AGE OR RETIREMENT INSURANCE RATES.
This entire negotiation was carried out ILLEGALLY, with both the CITY and the PBPA bargaining for things which are OUTSIDE THE LIMITED SCOPE OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING FOR CURRENT EMPLOYMENT ISSUES.
ANY sergeant, retired or not, may sue both the PBPA and the City for bargaining on issues that do NOT apply to the working conditions and issues during an employee's term of employment under the duration of the contract.
The negotiation process itself has several requirements as well that cannot be met under this proposed contract.
For instance, what are the tradeoffs for each change to the retirement plan? What did the PBPA secure in exchange for increasing retirement age to 53? What did the PBPA secure in exchange for cutting the COLA increases that occur AFTER employment has ended with the city? What did the PBPA secure in exchange for increasing insurance contributions paid by employees who will no longer be employed by the city and therefore no longer be covered by any contract?
The answer can be only one of TWO possible: either NOTHING or they traded raises today and no loss of benefits today for cutting their own throat on retirement issues.
No matter what Ade would attempt to show as a "tradeoff", it would HAVE to apply to something the employees receive TODAY in exchange for something they GIVE UP after they are no longer an employee and it's FOREVER.
It's illegal 9 ways to Sunday.
There is no way possible for the PBPA to negotiate concessions from the city for current working condition issues in exchange for givebacks in retirement.
Trading something for today in exchange for something permanent in the future is FAR outside the right of the PBPA or the City. That alone is a basis of a separate suit wherein the plaintiffs allege they were held hostage to either accept cuts outside the contract of employment or accept NO pay raises during the contract as well as loss of current benefits. This by Ade's OWN addmission on TV that if they didn't accept these givebacks now worse would have been forced upon them against their will. This is the very definition of coercion.
Additionally, the PBPA does NOT represent retirees, therefore they do not have the authority to affect any changes or negotiate for changes on individuals whom they do not represent.
This contract will be shut down by the Sergreants. I have that much faith that of those 1200+ people, most of them know when they are being fucked by their own representatives. This issue will die when this contract proposal dies. The membership of the PBPA now needs to focus on rewriting it's bylaws to prevent the kind of scumbag in-it-for-themself leadership they were so blindly lead to elect, and possibly how do they get rid of this piece of shit Ade today.
said...
Isn't there a law that the city has to apply all grants to the pension fund to get it to90 percent after 2013
February 13, 2013 at 10:57 PM
Senate bill 3538 was passed 2 years ago and addresses a law on how the pension will be 90% funded with mandatory payments paid by the city who would forfeit their share of state revenue sharing if the payments were not made This would be required by 2040 We already have a law passed, but the politicians are trying to get us to fund it with decreased benefits like a reduced COLA and larger contributions Dont let it happens Stick to SB 3538
http://www.civicfed.org/civic-federation/blog/senate-bill-3538-police-and-fire-pension-reforms
Anonymous said...
That's where this needs to be before the courts.
Rahm thinks he's slick in bamboozling a smaller union.
He then can use that union in his dog and pony show and portray all other unions as greedy and unreasonable.
Fuck you Rahm. You're a slimy,union busting, bastard.
2/14/2013 03:12:00 AM
Do you mean the courts where Daley and Burke appointed all the judges? Those courts? You are truly naive. You are fucked and Rahm knows it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/business/01pension.html?_r=0
Great article on court decisions regarding COLAS in Colorado and Minnesota
Anonymous said...
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
Are you fucking stupid or just another lib?
Answers:
1. If the City held up its part of the bargin, yes it is sustainable, given that active members already contribute more.
2. I would give your rat's ass because there is always a hook to "nudge" towards a greater agenda. Nothing is given away by demorats without asking for something in return.
3. Plans to alter pensions are in the works because A. pols have not kept their promise to fully fund the pensions and B. people like you who don't fight to keep what was promised.
It is not the fault of the workers for the pension shortfall, unless you believe that maybe retirees are living to long and using up the pension that you think you are entitled and are afraid it won't be there for you, but the politicians' fault for not contributing to the funds when mandated by state law. Quinn signed a Bill the last year Daley was in office directing the City to make contributions; which Daley asked Quinn not to sign. Has the City followed that law? The City wins everytime one of us dies on the jobs, dies in an accident while off-duty and wins when a retiree and spouse die before the age of 70.
What have you done to safeguard the pension? Yeah, that's what I thought, nothing!
The city will protect and secure counsel if the retirees sue??? Ha! That's a laugh- let's see the city's lackluster attorneys against some real professional labor lawyers in court- the city will get their ass handed to them unless they make a deal and pay out, which is all they know how to do anyway! Thats why this town cries broke all the time- paying out money for stupid policies and laws that were lost in court, e.g. the gun ban.
Have yet to meet a sgt. who is voting yes on it.
via Chicago Tribune...
Analysis: Emanuel still has work to do on ethics
----------------------------------
Emanuel Ethics are a work in progress..
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
NO, REALLY?
Stealing peoples pensions and healthcare money to build $55 million dollar altars of worship for clouted political friends is very ethical!
I mean as long as you can sell it as pension reform and then legalize the thefts by making new laws to justify what you've done.
All you have to do is hold a press conference and tell the people "it's necessary" because I said so. I am prepared to blow as much taxpayer money as is needed on lawyers and lawsuits and appeals courts to challenge the current laws and the constitution to get my way.
From Large Magazines To Large Sugary Drinks!
The gun ban is moving along nicely and I think "now is the time" to ban sugary soft drinks in the city.
These soft drink are dangerous and are responsible for a number of health issues. "Now is the time" they must go.
-------------------------------------
Cook County joins push to limit sugar in soft drinks
Chicago Tribune-by Monica Eng-20 hours ago
Michael Jacobson, CPSI's executive director, said he didn't ask for the city's support because of Chicago's close relationship with soft drink ...
-----------------------------------
Therefore, we have instructed the major media outlets to begin the demonetization campaign against these soft drinks.
=============================
Ask the Expert: Are soft drinks all that bad?
Chicago Tribune-Feb 4, 2013
Researches recently found evidence to suggest that there is a link between consumption of sugary soft drinks and depression. New York City
------------------------------------
We're so concerned about these depression issues aren't we?
Remember, that the mayor closed numerous community mental health care clinics.
No one should concern themselves with people losing access to support for verified mental depression. It's better to wave studies "THAT SUGGEST" a link to depression from soft drinks to produce the propaganda to sway the hearts and minds.
What we need now is to find some fat kid with health problems or that has recently died so that we can name a bill after him/her. USE the kids to tug on the emotions of the people. "It's for the CHILDREN".
What's next on the Chicago ban agenda?
The mayor doesn't eat pork does he?
Maybe BBQ ribs will be next?
The media falls for it hook, line, and sinker.
The city is busted. We can't pay our bills. Corruption is running rampant and lawbreakers running wild from corrupt banking exec's to the street corner mutts and we have the media directed to float all these issues concerning small minority subsets of the population. i.e. Gay rights, Abortion, Sugary soft drinks, yes gun bans, etc..
Very convenient.
Talk about someone taking a drink of water on camera during the State of The Union speech and ridicule it.
Talk about who Ms. Obama is wearing at the meeting. That's what's important to the nation.
The media and non-stop Republican vs. Democrat bullshit mocking each other the groups cannot resist doing it and as they do the political crimes go on and on as the real issues are unaddressed.
What a joke it all has become.
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
--
THIS retired sergeant gives more than a rat's ass, Rahm. WAY more.
Active sergeants, do not reward Ade's bad behavior in rushing this through with a 'yes' vote. Remember the parking meter deal. You can always vote for it later after much more analysis and discussion. Rahm wants to move on to bigger and better things, befitting his royal position, so in four years the new mayor will be looking for more concessions if we open that door. This is a very big step. Think about it carefully. I am retired, and really angry, that Ade has proposed something that will change my benefits, and I can't vote on it. That's just plain wrong.
Hey guess what!?
8,830,026: Americans on Disability Hits New Record for 192nd Straight Month
No wonder the Unemployment numbers are reported so low. We know the problem is much worse. People that have run out of their unemployment insurance extensions are filing for disability, right?
Hey, people do whatever they need to do in order to survive. If you get laid off and been searching for a job for 99 weeks (2 years) and don't even get a phone call back what would you do?
Try to get on disability to get a pay check. You gotta eat. You gotta have a place to live. It's better then robbing a bank or picking apples on the train isn't it?
Do you think that Obama's administration would be in a hurry to address any fraudulent claims on the Social Security Disability system?
Hell naw.
If Obama happened to find that this system was being abused and he put the boot on the departments neck we would then have these people being counted again as part of the unemployed workforce again that are seeking non-existent jobs. We would have to report the REAL UI numbers. The people being kick off the program would most likely turn to street crime.
"...In December 1968, 1,295,428 Americans collected disability and 65,630,000 worked full-time. Thus, there were about 51 Americans working full-time for each person collecting disability at that time. In January 1997, the last time the number of disability beneficiaries declined, 4,385,374 Americans collected disability and 104,900,000 worked full-time. Thus, there were then about 24 Americans working full-time for each person collecting disability.
In January 2013, with a record 8,830,026 Americans collecting disability and 115,918,000 working full-time, there were only 13 Americans working full-time for each person collecting disability...."
The system will be busted out much sooner than everyone thinks.
With the US demographics of the baby boomers there's no doubt that the disability claims would rise. However 192 consecutive months of increases along with a current application back log of 800 days for a disability hearing -- is that reasonable?
I would bet you that while there are laws that are suppose to protect against age discrimination that there is a very large number of 50+ year old's that have been shut out of the workplace here. They are in their so-called peak earning years. They are also more likely to file a health care claim on the companies insurance plan.
Soc. Sec. is heading towards a brick wall like the pensions are heading for a brick wall. Politicians keep borrowing/stealing from the future by delaying payments, cutting benefits.
They're playing "Just The Tip."
As soon as "pension reform " is passed at the state and city level, watch for the Gaming Bill to make a sudden reappearance. All of the protests from this Quinn will disappear and the bill will be passed. This will be a windfall for the state and a casino in Chicago will generate millions . But not one cent of it will go towards funding the pensions. Do not cave to this or you will regret it. These politicians are
plotting to keep all the money.
The Sun Times stated that this sergeants' contract and the pension reforms are for current employees and future retirees. You are agreeing to it. Those already retired may not be affected by this. It is still wrong !
Scc, Not sure if you heard. In court today, 26th st, saw a bunch of sheriffs go running towards Probation department. People were yelling Gun,gun!! Some dog on probation made it past security with a loaded gun. Apprehended and gun recovered!!!! This should go under WTF!!!
Isn’t Ade’s father and at least one uncle retired? Why would he throw them under the bus?
Of all the unions in the state why were we the first to break ranks with the Labor Coalition? What is the back story?
Does anyone remember fire strike? Do the we want to be known as scabs to every labor organization in the state? To anyone under 58 years of age or so you have no idea how dirty this could get. This has no chance to pass a constitutional challenge. So why do this? I we give Rahm give backs on this contract what do we have to give back on the next contract?
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Picture this: A boxing ring in large empty area. Rahm in one corner with Jimmy Ade as his fighter doing his dirty work. In the other corner all the other labor organizations from the rest of the state. In the ring for them a small frail retired sergeant 80+ years of age bent over after years of working in shit holes his whole career (something Ade never did - Court Section?) after he came back from Korea (maybe my dad or yours). The bell rings and Jimmy Ade pummels the old guy and holds him up in the corner while Rahm gets some cheap shots into the kidneys from the safety outside the ring.
Juvenile example. Almost funny if the analogy wasn’t true. But if Ade is willing to throw his own father and uncles under the bus why would you think the would care about anyone else‘s father or uncle? What is the true back story? What was promised?
If we voluntarily accept this and no one else does I can see PO’s ten years after they retire with bigger monthly pension checks than Sergeants.
Vote no.
Vote yes and we will be known scabs and turncoats until the day we die.
Give me a break about proof reading, Ms. Crabtree! Now your Einstein, right?
Anonymous said...
Here is the last paragraph to the agreement:
Hold Harmless:
City to offer representation and hold Sergeants Union harmless in event of litigation from retirees challenging pension changes. What this means is when the lawsuits against the union come in, the city will pay any damages if neccessary.
2/14/2013 01:05:00 AM
8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Is that where you want us to be?
Having all the retirees suing us and standing alone against all of organized labor in the state? Do you really trust Rahm that much? If you do Jim you are a fool. Even if we win it will never be the same again. This proposal w/o even being approved by the membership has made us toxic.
This is getting nasty fast.
Some retired Sgts. have contacted the WE ARE ONE coalition and want to picket the Sgts union hall during one of Ade's informational meetings. They called FOP this morning about where to get signs printed. FOP told them to cool down for now but WE ARE ONE is a little bit interested.
The print shop that produced the signs “Proud Union Home” has been contacted for a quote but declined to print “Sergeants are scabbing for Rahm”. They do not want to use the word scab but are willing to do some other wording. Surprisingly the signs are expensive. Better than 10 bucks a piece for coragated plastic with wire bracket. I'm sure some will print them somewhere else thou. I will post a date and time if this goes thru.
Anonymous said...
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable?
---------------------------------------
Well are the corporate tax breaks sustainable? Are the building of $55 million dollar parks sustainable?
What's the return on investment on that park or those six-figure bike paths anyways? I don't remember Mayor Transparency and Ethics publishing that. Maybe I missed it? Anyone?
Hey I have an idea.
When you can't pay what you signed onto pay for you get to seize assets right?
What if we just grab Midway Airport, O'hare Airport, The Daley Center, Maggie park and sell the naming rights and/or operations to Abu Dhabi like the parking meter deal.
Better yet let's go where the real money is being generated and demand control over the Red light camera profits and the new school zone speed trap camera profits.
Or even better yet!
How about all the profits from ANY casino operation in Chicago goes directly into the pensions!
Shhhh! Shut UP! We're not suppose to talk about any revenue generating activities. Follow your scripts and remember the political Code of Silence.
How's that sound?
Yeah we already stole your money, our clouted friends have it via the no-bid contracts, so the pension plans appear to be not sustainable -- let us go, let us go -- it's not our fault -- it's all a misunderstanding. We didn't mean to not pay into the funds that we signed contracts for and agreed to pay.
How can you trust anything that they tell you? How?
Try that on your mortgage or car loan.
Call the bank up and ask them if they think if their payment plans are sustainable -- tell them that you just don't have the money and see what they tell you.
If the bank comes back at ya and tells you that they found you have $10,000 dollars in another bank account, just inform the bank that THAT money is for vacations and can't be used on THEIR debts.
Not only did we steal that pension money we are gonna ban your pension plan from investments, like gun and ammo manufacturers who's profits are currently off the charts too, to ensure anyone from getting a better return on their pension investments.
They are picking and choosing the winners my friends and it's not us.
I'll tell you what tho.
Was what the bankers did sustainable? The lies and frauds that went on with no prosecution?
The bankers got a bail out. The automakers got a bailout. The airlines got a bailout. Sears got a tax break, CME got a tax break, United Airlines got a tax break and guess what?
GTFOH pulling your pants pockets inside out like there's no money. This is a self created crisis.
It's not our fault that after all those tax breaks and bailouts that there's no money coming in for the pensions.
Naw you do that and create the crisis that is needed to go back on your commitments to the people.
After all, how many of the people here are high enough on the politicians campaign contribution list if at all? The money transfer is to them not to us.
Where did the money come from for those bailouts in part?
From the manipulation of interest rates by the Fed and US Treasury.
Those entities pushed interest rates to artificially low levels that hit every single persons fixed assets investments: 401K's, IRA's, savings, pensions, etc. People don't see it because it's not a direct transfer
Why should any of those banks borrow money paying pension plans or 401k plans say 4% interest when the Fed opens the discount window and lets them borrow at less than 1%?!
The Fed and US Treasury destroyed the earnings power of these plans. They devalued the dollar. They are picking and choosing the winners.
When the social contract gets broken like this I think history has shown things usually get ugly and we are all in the beginning of this melt down me thinks.
Anonymous said...
Hey... Is it PAPB, PABB or....PBPA?? Wtf man... Tired or not.. You were allegedly a supervisor so you should at least proofread your comment before making a complete fool of yourself. We, active sergeants will most assuredly vote this down so I would not worry too much... It is a horse shit "agreement" if you even want to refer to it as such.. There is NO FUCKING WAY this will pass. Shame on you Jim Aide for selling police officers out... Not just the sergeants but the entire police department with your "look at me" deal with Mr Emanuel... Please resign ASAP we no longer trust you and certainly do not need you if this is your agenda for us...
2/14/2013 03:23:00 AM
Isn't it Sgt. Ade? not Aide.
Maybe you should at least proof read your comment before making a complete fool of yourself. R U sure U R a Sgt?
I am a member of Local 2 and I have a copy of this "ageement". It does not bode well for ANY of us and active sgts. need to be urged to vote no. This will cost you money as actives and then your pension benefit will be reduced.It is a foot in the door for the mayor and will hurt EVERYONE.
This would be a no brainer. The current "leadership",I use that term loosely, at the Sgt.'s union completely intend to send retiree's up the river without a paddle.
You cannot in a labor contract change retirees benefits. It is covered under state law. Throwing retirees under the bus which is what happened here is despicable. Who was the attorney who walked them through this and advised them? Sgts. you were used by Rahm. Your board should feel dirty. Change your leadership!
To the one comment on the ability to change retiree and pension benefits most Courts have ruled that you can't. You mention two where the laws governing them are so different. That's the problem people who have no clue on how the pension fund is funded, what the laws are,tried to negotiate benefits. Stay out of the pension area Sgts ass"n!
It's sad that we as police officers, no mater the rank can't stand together and make ourselves stronger and a force to be recond with. Is it impossible for the Sgt.'s and up to talk with FOP and stand together? Funny cause the brass like to say they "have our backs" and "we are all police officers first" crap, but in the end it's a me me me job. Everyone is out for themselves and city hall loves it. The Sgt.'s union just proved that. Merit has done great damage to this job. Wonder what promiss Ade got from Rahm and his crew?
Anonymous said...
Lets look at this age 53..Very few retire at this age..Most will do the extra 2 for the health-care...So why 53???? Because it is the camels nose in the tent...Once the city is allowed to change the Pension for current cops its over for even those retired...
2/13/2013 10:29:00 PM
Exactly! When will we learn from history. Once you start giving it never ends. The City is smart enough to use this tactic why can't we be? How about we ask the city to give and every contract we ask for more. Lets use their tactics. No, it never happens. It's us that always loses. I can't believe the Sgt.'s union is sleeping with the enemy.
The city is over a barrel and you stupid asses are going to let them wiggle out of the legislation that is already law!!!
I have heard NO one say they will vote yes. Make sure you have poll watchers present when the votes are being counted!!
Even the teachers Union is urging all PAPB members to vote NO !!
Anonymous said...
Here is the last paragraph to the agreement:
Hold Harmless:
City to offer representation and hold Sergeants Union harmless in event of litigation from retirees challenging pension changes.
What this means is when the lawsuits against the union come in, the city will pay any damages if neccessary.
Rahm and his crew are laughing because they know whatever agreement they get the Sgt.'s to take, big changes will come in the next few years and the Sgt.'s will get fucked. This state is on the verge of bankruptcy.
2/14/2013 01:05:00 AM
Anonymous said...
I think Ade thought this would be a no brainer! He thought that all the Sgts would drink the coolaid. Now I see he will have informational meetings in the next couple of days to explain the proposed contract. Jim this should have been done first. Jim do you think we are stupid? I think Jim Ade should go to the Lone Tree meeting and explain it there since he states it will not effect current retirees! One last thing!! Whats the rush to get the ballots out and back! Sounds like the Obama care deal! Like my girl nancy said "You have to vote for it to see whats really in it!" Dont forget that Jim Ade was the main person behind the health screenings! Does he really think that Rahm gives a shit about our health? This will come back to bite you in the ass!!! The Sgt board vote on this without it being voted on by the members! Jim whose interest do you really serve????
2/14/2013 02:30:00 AM
Why would anyone believe Ade? Can he be trusted? It's very suspicious how quick he jumped on this deal and shocked everyone. What did he get promised? Merit LT.? Nice retirement Gov. spot? Look for him to get something. Time will tell.
Everyone is talking about increasing our contribution 3% 4% 5%, but it wouldn't matter if we put in 20% a year. This aint shit and will not have any impact on the pension. So, if we do pay more who's to say the scum that run this state will do their part? Why would anyone believe them? So what happens if they fund it a little and in 10-15 years we are back in the same place. How many times have politicians lies and gone back on their word? Too many to count. Remember this is Illinois the worst state in the nation and most corrupt. Why voluntarily give anything to these lying Illinois politicians. People need to ask what will the state do if we pay more? Otherwise what's the point.
Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
22
====================================
Why do contracts at all then?
It's only a waste of time when you can go back on your word at-will with no penalties -- signature or no signature.
You act like these things in writing with signatures on them mean something!
Get what you can while you can. Hoo-Ray for me and Eff you.
The corporations with the most money wins because they run this puppet government.
Get your money owed at the end of the day or in advance for your service.
Don't wait until the end of the week or month for the paycheck. The words don't mean anything in an employment agreement. You just may hear at the end of the pay period that the city has no money to pay you == and play the victim. The money was spent on some clouted water and sewer project or something.
Sad day for you to trust a piece of paper with a signature on it. Is the next piece of paper signed going to be any different?
This mindset should not be a surprise the banks and investment houses just got away with exactly that big time.
Ignore your contracts as they did. See what happens
The banks ignored their fiduciary responsibilities writing bad mortgages and then blamed the applicants for the banks negligence of not performing the checks to ensure the applicant could pay.
There's surely some contracts and signatures in there. Did they matter?
The banks then bundled the bad loans to hide the true value of the bad loans and made investment derivatives out of them -- to profit again by betting against the loans ever being paid. I'm pretty sure that there's some signatures and contracts involved in that fraud.
The rating agencies: S&P, Moody's, Fitch, etc.. rated those bad loan packages as Triple-A safe when they were no-where close to being safe. How many signatures there?
Now it's more finger pointing and victim blaming as the banks that assembled the crap investments and sold them, and profited from them, blame and sue the rating agencies because they rated them wrong. Seriously??
Why do contracts?
The US Constitution has lots of signatures on it as does the State constitution. It's not protecting anyone. Look how many years it took to get Chicago's citizens right to bear arms back and they are still playing around using taxpayer dollars to challenge the rights with appeal courts, and lawyers. People are still getting locked up for peaceful assembly and free speech.
Where's the meaning in the words? the protection of rights as you've already lost the game by spending your life in a court room as a result of the top 1% rules
I remember pres. Bush being quoted, calling the US Constitution "that G-damn piece of paper."
If the signatures on contracts mean nothing do the signatures on our laws mean anything? After all, and I don't remember what movie is was but they said: " there's no such thing as right or wrong. There's only a matter of opinion.."
We'll see y'all in the bread line because it's no longer worth it, is it?
Maybe you'll get paid, maybe you wont?
We know you paid money into retirement plans your entire life and we spent that money and you'll be lucky if you get anything back. Sad day for you.
You got wrongly evicted and the bank didn't have to show any doc's that they have rights to the property. Well sad day for you. The banks have the money and own the politicians and the courts so they don't have to produce evidence for anything.
Who you going to trust?
We're told we are a nation of laws. Well the bankers are running free. The illegal immigrants are running free and even encourage to break laws.
This suit threat is BS. The PBPA does not pass legislation, the legislature does. No wonder the city agreed to indemnify the union against a retiree suit, it will be a simple motion to dismiss won by the PBPA.
Everyone bitches and moans about selling out. Do you believe they will not propose this legislation without us? The city already has their version ready to go and they have the votes in Springfield to pass it. Instead of the PBPA version, the retirement age will be 55 or 60 and COLA's will be frozen for ten years straight. Rhamulous will go out of his way to stick it in our ass. We might as well have some input. It is ultimately going to be decided in the courts anyway. So we can sit by and hope an Illinois court decides in our favor or we can be proactive and find a solution. We all know the funds will nor survive in their current state, it is an actuarial fact.
If you do a little research, you can find that other state courts have ruled that contractual pension benefits can be diminished is the purpose is to ensure the fund remains solvent.
Feel like rolling the dice?
OT. Why is a north side D/C asking for work sheets for the 19th to include race and gender of all P.O.'s
How come you won’t post my YES for this deal?
Ret. Sgt.
you voted these democRATS into office and thats what you get..enjoy
Let's see...underfunded and we want to increase the payout to 80%?? That should put it into bankruptcy faster...
I dont like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to madigan or cross with help from the mayor. I think not. All across the nation pension systems are a mess. I dont want to fix a problem caysed by others but i have no choice, the alternative is a bankrupt fund after i worked over 20 years. Stop all the bitching about the politicians and what thry have stolen. It is in the past and will continue until we are all long gone. If you.remember arbitration didnt go so good last time. Look at what you have and appreciate it. We all are paid well and its obvious things cannot stay the same. Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little.
wow what happen in a northside district the officer told off the tact LT nice .
According to the proposed sergeants contract, current retirees will see a cola suspension in even years. Does anyone know if the proposal allows us to collect 80% if we stayed on the job for 31 years and a day, or are they just going to take away benefits.
While I would like to see the suit filed, if the following is true, then this point is moot:
Anonymous said...
The newspaper today said that these pensions reforms on the sergeants' contract will be for current employees and future retirees . Those already retired are not affected by this.
2/13/2013 08:26:00 PM
2/14/2013 07:41:00 AM
-----
First, I trust that 'promise' about as far as I can lift my house.
Second, they hope, by not including current retirees, we will not rise up and assist the cause.
Wrong guess, Rahm. WE recognize how important it is to guarantee EVERYONE's right to the pension they've been promised, and have paid into, for three decades.
The Illinois Public Labor Relations Act delineates exactly what collective bargaining covers, and it doesn't cover bargaining current employee benefits against retirement benefits.
It's against the law, and would be shot down or sent back to the table to have all retirement related aspects removed from it and then brought back to court to see if it's construction gels with labor law.
It doesn't matter anyway, it's never going to pass the vote.
Although someone should hammer both sides for even considering bargaining your future away for current employee benefits. It's bargaining by threat of future losses and Ade said it himself.
Anonymous said...
Billionaire business man Mayor Bloomberg has NYPD cops retiring after 20 years of service regardless of age. So officers leave at 41.
At 50 our youngest retirees are a decade older than NYPD's youngest retirees.
All the other major Departments provide for 50 and out.
CPD officers deserve no less.
2/14/2013 09:46:00 AM
Other departments understand the wisdom in having the officers retire earlier and replacing them with new and younger officers. Here they think they are saving money by delaying payment of pensions.
The management here is nothing but cement head knuckleheads.
In NYC you rarely if ever see an old gray haired patrolman on a beat or in a beat car. You see that here all the time.
When I came on they stayed until age 70. We had plenty of real old guys then, can you imagine 69 year old police working a beat car in Chicago. I saw plenty of them. It took 32 and a day to get to 75% then.
1st Deputy Jack Townsend stayed until age 70. They kept the age for him. When he left they moved the age to 63.
Anonymous said...
I dont like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to madigan or cross with help from the mayor. I think not. All across the nation pension systems are a mess. I dont want to fix a problem caysed by others but i have no choice, the alternative is a bankrupt fund after i worked over 20 years. Stop all the bitching about the politicians and what thry have stolen. It is in the past and will continue until we are all long gone. If you.remember arbitration didnt go so good last time. Look at what you have and appreciate it. We all are paid well and its obvious things cannot stay the same. Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little.
2/14/2013 03:44:00 PM
So, what you are saying is each of us contributing an additional 3% or 4% will fix the problem? HAHAHAHAHA! That wouldn't even be a chip in the iceberg. If we all paid 80% of our yearly pay it wouldn't make a difference. The issue is the local and state governments need to meet their obligations and stop borrowing the money. There is no talk about what they will do. That's the problem with anything additional we will pay.
The Illinois legislature has a super majority and still can't pass raising the minimum age to 55. So why do they need our support? To possibly change a few votes by showing this unique partnership. They would've changed the law if they could without us.
Also, if you remember that the city is obligated to pay 600 million into the pension fund or the state will take 400 million in grant money and fund the pensions for them. By allowing them 15 additional years, the pension will be depleted even faster as they will just kick the can down the road.
I would love to hear any arguments other than doomsday nonsense of how we are going to lose by rejecting this offer.
Is anyone seeing what's going on here? All this talk about us paying more into the pension is making it appear as though the reason it's so messed up is because we as members underfunded it causing the problem. It's becoming a smoke screen to what caused the pension mess. The reason it's messed up lies solely in the hands of our elected officials.
Anonymous said...
I dont like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to madigan or cross with help from the mayor. I think not. All across the nation pension systems are a mess. I dont want to fix a problem caysed by others but i have no choice, the alternative is a bankrupt fund after i worked over 20 years. Stop all the bitching about the politicians and what thry have stolen. It is in the past and will continue until we are all long gone. If you.remember arbitration didnt go so good last time. Look at what you have and appreciate it. We all are paid well and its obvious things cannot stay the same. Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little.
2/14/2013 03:44:00 PM
You are a stupid fool! Even if we contribute 12% of our pay check into a pension fund then we are screwed. Because people are living longer and thus they are drawing their benefits for a longer time.
We need drastic changes to our pension system. I wished the fucking government stayed out of my life as much as possible. Let me take my 9% and do as I please. I can manage my money a lot better than the government can.
Any fool who trusts someone else to take care of them is a fool. Never trust someone else to take care of your well being. In the end you will be left with an empty promise; while the other party laughs all the way to the bank. With YOUR money to boot.
Anonymous said...
Billionaire business man Mayor Bloomberg has NYPD cops retiring after 20 years of service regardless of age. So officers leave at 41.
At 50 our youngest retirees are a decade older than NYPD's youngest retirees.
All the other major Departments provide for 50 and out.
CPD officers deserve no less.
2/14/2013 09:46:00 AM
Correct that the CPD deserves no less.
They also deserve to have the political fucking hacks kicked the fuck off the goddamn board as well.
Take note, the NYPD pension fund has mostly PO's on it's board, followed by 4 supervisor members and a mere 4 political hacks.
That means the FUCKING EMPLOYEES RUN THE FUND, NOT THE FUCKING HACK POLITICIANS AS IS DONE IN CHICAGO.
For some reason, the NYPD pension fund is currently at 60.1% funding ratio, DOUBLE that of Chicago.
Why is that I wonder? And how can this be rectified?
Feel like rolling the dice?
2/14/2013 03:13:00 PM
you're rolling the wrong dice.
i'd lend you my pair of bones, if i thought you'd use them.
Chalkie
According to the Retired Chicago Police Officers Assoc. the return on investments for the Pension Fund was 12.2% for 2012. And that's without any of the Daley's taking part.
Anonymous said...
I dont like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to madigan or cross with help from the mayor. I think not.
**************
Once again, with feeling, HEY FUCKTARD, OUR PENSION IS PROTECTED BY THE STATE CONSTITUTION UNTIL 2018.
You're fucking conjob ain't gonna work here shitheel. The fuckheads do NOT have the authority to diminish our pensions, PERIOD. They would have done so by now and the legislation pending in the legislature would include direct hits to benefits which it does not because they know full fucking well it CANNOT.
Shove your bullshit scare tactics up your fucking ass conjob.... go give away your fucking pension on your own you chickenshit saleshack because we all fucking know better.
Nothing will change our pension, and the courts have no recourse to alter the constitution or claim every past case they ruled on is magically now incorrect.
You lose loser, not us. There IS a mechanism to fix this fucking problem, it's called TAXATION whether you fucking like it or not.
Oh The Irony..,
"Crundwell 'truly sorry' as judge gives her more than 19 years"
Truly sorry for what? Sorry that she got caught?
" Ex-Dixon comptroller Rita Crundwell choked up while apologizing in court today for taking $54 million in public money and spending it on show horses, property, a luxury motor home and other lavish items.
Video: Dixon woman sentenced to 235 months in prison
http://www.chicagotribune.com/
======================================
$54 million public dollars on LAVISH ITEMS!! The nerve!
OH, You mean like $55 million on a park?
Maybe that's it. If she spent it on a park and put her name on it to show how great she was in a self aggrandizing manner then it would of all been all okay....maybe, IDK?
Oh we are all in this together.
Is the ex-mayors taxpayer funded security staff in this. Is the money provided for that sustainable? How about for Aldermen Burke? Is he in this together and the money for his 24/7 tax payer funded security in this together? Were those items in their contract agreements? Yeah what contracts?
Prepare thyself for more lawsuits because it's discrimination for one aldermen to get something that the others do not have. The city has loads of money for the courts and lawyers to protect the dictatorship don't they? When the current mayor gets pushed out the standard is now been set and the people tolerated it so he can set himself up when he leaves too.
No lavish spending there right?
Or is it just the pensions that are not sustainable?
The money to challenge the US Constitution on free speech, free assembly, gun rights. All the money in the world to write new laws and to hire lawyers and file appeals. That's all sustainable and necessary right?
I see many Chicago AND Illinois politicians going on lavish trips overseas and to South America etc.. why is that sustainable? Got plenty of money for that.
We're told they are on a trade mission to create Jay-OH-BEES. JOBS
I don't see them. I see Illinois Food Stamp caseloads up by 8,000 people last report -- to over 2 million people in the State on Food Stamps.
I see the food stamp caseloads nation wide go up from 27 million in 2008 to just under 49 million today. In fact it's been on the rise since 2000 and if I remember correctly it was at about 18 million back then.
Don't piss on my head and tell me the economy is recovery and we're creating living wage jobs. BULLSHIT!
I see the SSDI social security disability roles rise since about 1997, 192 consecutive months in a row.
And the media propaganda goes on to tell us "..as the economic recovery continues.."
I don't know about you but I am sick of hearing politicians telling me to not look back when you call them out on their frauds. The horse is already out of the barn, it makes no sense to try and lock the gate now. No we should look forward and forget about their crimes. Stop looking back. Stop holding grudges. Unless it's the holocaust because then we must never forget.
Try telling the Pendalton family that and see the outrage. What does this guy have that the thousands of other Chicagoan's that have been murdered or shot have that's so special? The media propaganda is endless. When they gonna change the name of that park to hers and giver her an honorary street name etc...etc..
This is just a reminder to the kids in the hood that they ain't shit and don't stand a chance. Sure there will be a few exceptions however they all know the game is rigged.
Yeah I'm rambling so I'll quit. Just remember the words of a politician don't mean shit. Don't mean doink even if it's in writing.
Anonymous said...
Have yet to meet a sgt. who is voting yes on it.
2/14/2013 11:58:00 AM
Yeah and if it passes you can ask every Sgt. on the job if they voted yes and you won't find one. They will never admitt it.
Anonymous said...
Everyone is talking about increasing our contribution 3% 4% 5%, but it wouldn't matter if we put in 20% a year.
***********
You're FUCKIN A RIGHT it won't matter!
This is their political shit solution to fucking kick the can down the road on OUR fucking backs rather than the REST of the taxpayers.
There is only ONE solution. Taxes will be used to pay the fucking pensions, the end.
The fucking cronyism will cease until the money is paid. The fucking denial of payments will fucking cease. The gross corruption and backroom deals leaching billions of our dollars into private pockets will cease.
Until OUR fucking pension is funded as the law requires and the benefits are secured as the constitution protects, NONE of these fuckers will have a choice any longer other than to take it out of the taxpayers rather than their crony's pockets.
Anonymous said...
Did not the FOP forgive the Pension payment of millions during a previous contract years ago? Precedent set?
2/14/2013 08:33:00 AM
Yes, and ever since then the city has forgave itself from meeting the obligation over and over and over.
"I don't like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to Madigan or Cross with help from the mayor. I think not. All across the nation pension systems are a mess. I don't want to fix a problem caused by others but i have no choice, the alternative is a bankrupt fund after i worked over 20 years. Stop all the bitching about the politicians and what they have stolen. It is in the past and will continue until we are all long gone. If you.remember arbitration didn't go so good last time. Look at what you have and appreciate it. We all are paid well and its obvious things cannot stay the same. Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little."
2/14/2013 03:44:00 PM
all good points, but....aren't there other solutions to the "pension problem"? What other avenues have been explored? Can the Democratic liberal politicians get away from "more taxes"?....what other ideas are on the table, including leasing Midway Airport, expanding gambling in Illinois, cutting spending for some bullshit programs, etc...will the liberals ever stop fucking things up?
Anonymous said...
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Picture this: A boxing ring in large empty area. Rahm in one corner with Jimmy Ade as his fighter doing his dirty work. In the other corner all the other labor organizations from the rest of the state. In the ring for them a small frail retired sergeant 80+ years of age bent over after years of working in shit holes his whole career (something Ade never did - Court Section?) after he came back from Korea (maybe my dad or yours). The bell rings and Jimmy Ade pummels the old guy and holds him up in the corner while Rahm gets some cheap shots into the kidneys from the safety outside the ring.
2/14/2013 12:56:00 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Too funny. Think of Happy Gilmore and Bob Barker kicking Happy Gilmore’s ass. I bet Ade gets his ass kicked too. But he will be taken care of now that he is Rahm’s boy toy!
Anonymous said...
Have yet to meet a sgt. who is voting yes on it.
2/14/2013 11:58:00 AM
I'm voting yes!!!!
signed,
Jim Ade
Anonymous said...
Have yet to meet a sgt. who is voting yes on it.
2/14/2013 11:58:00 AM
Me Too!!!
signed,
Paul Bilotta
Anyone else see the irony?
Take a look at the PBPA website...
SALUTE OUR RETIREES!!!
And then try and FUCK 'EM IN THE ASS eh Jimmyboy?
This guy's made more enemies in the shortest time in the history of policing.
If I were Court Section Jimmy I'd be checking under my car every time I get near it.
How the fuck did this scumbag ever CONvince the sergeants to vote his ass in anyway?
Don't tell me, no one bothered to vote so downtown Jimmy's 4 friends were all he needed to get elected.
O/T i thought you guys might have a intrest in this:
http://www.suntimes.com/18234076-761/mccarthy-police-can-safeguard-students-crossing-gang-boundaries.html
Don't put all the blame on Jim Ade...his toady Bilotta, who likes to think of himself as some financial wizard with a background in banking seems to be the lead asshat in this debacle. Ol' Jimmy just gets the shit 'cuz he's the prez. My money's on L'il Pauly being the author of most of this steaming heap of contract. He's always felt he was better than all, and I'm sure there's a spot somewhere for him after this has run it's course...maybe in Rahm's cabinet?
Has any PAPB official gone to the pension board office and ask their input and/or seek some answers about having the pension changed. My guess is NO.
I have only spoken to a handfull of Sgt's about their vote, to a man/lady, not one has said they will vote for this. We'll see . . .
"Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little."
2/14/2013 03:44:00 PM
This is exactly the kind of defeatist attitude that the politicians want you to have. THEY stole our pension money, and now they want to steal your retirement from you if you let them. They always find money to pay the leeches their LINK cards and all of the other handouts to non-working people. Why isn't cutting that an issue in the headlines? Why is it always pension cuts for those who actually worked and earned it. Vote out any politician who lifts a finger to try to take what we earned.
2/14/2013 09:03:00 AM
STFU Rahmmy minion
If all the readers out there remember one thing and one thing only, it's this- "This city isn't broke until they open up all their books and accounts to scrutiny". Make this a mantra, tattoo in on your forehead backwards, write it out 1000 times, etc. Parasites realize when the host they have infested is dead because if the host dies, the parasite dies if it doesn't secure a new host. No one is lobbying to privatize the parking meters in Detroit as far as I know.
To the spineless and the quick to bow before the political hacks running this ship, step aside and let the adults figure this out and fight for a decent contract. If the teacher's union did it, we should be able to at least make this shell of a human/mayor flinch.
"The print shop that produced the signs “Proud Union Home” has been contacted for a quote but declined to print “Sergeants are scabbing for Rahm”. They do not want to use the word scab but are willing to do some other wording. Surprisingly the signs are expensive. Better than 10 bucks a piece for coragated plastic with wire bracket. I'm sure some will print them somewhere else thou. I will post a date and time if this goes thru."
Just go to a non-union shop!
Riddle me this, why would a Lt. assigned to the Marine Unit/Helicopter Unit as the C.O. elect to be reassigned to 005 as the field Lt?
So Lt Mike Shields could begin his assent again. Remember him, Michelle Obama's cousin....that's why!
Retired Sergeants should boycott the Retiree Dinner on 28 Feb 2013.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Riddle me this, why would a Lt. assigned to the Marine Unit/Helicopter Unit as the C.O. elect to be reassigned to 005 as the field Lt?
Answer: He wouldn't!!
2/14/2013 02:13:00 AM
Did the prima donna get dumped??
2/14/2013 11:29:00 AM
Yes he did! Dumped to 005
The news is that Emanuel wants to run for president in 2016. No surprise. He will run away from this city and the total mess he made of it.
as a sgt. i see this contract as both good and bad. the retirement fund and the state are in bad shape, the city is not too far behind. i realized that we were going to have to make some concessions to continue to insure the pension fund would be around.tom cross is going to stick it to us as soon as he can, the public will be behind him as he spreads his doom and gloom about the finances of Il and chicago. how do we insure the future without showing some willingness to give a little. all i hear is don't give an inch, they will then take a mile. if you don't like jim ade tell him to his face not by tearing him up on this site. the fop did such a fine deal by forgetting to file that letter, now we are backstabbers, where were you mike when negotiations started, advising, offering your expertise. wake up its time to face reality of how this state and city are in the crapper.
Anonymous said...
I dont like the current offer one bit, but i also know the way it stands the pension is bankrupt in 8 years. Do u want to leave the solution up to madigan or cross with help from the mayor. I think not. All across the nation pension systems are a mess. I dont want to fix a problem caysed by others but i have no choice, the alternative is a bankrupt fund after i worked over 20 years. Stop all the bitching about the politicians and what thry have stolen. It is in the past and will continue until we are all long gone. If you.remember arbitration didnt go so good last time. Look at what you have and appreciate it. We all are paid well and its obvious things cannot stay the same. Forget the state constitution and them bailing us out. They are 96 billion dollars in debt with their pensions, the credit rating is the worst in the country. No one gives a rats ass about us or our troubles, we have to be proactive and maybe give a little.
2/14/2013 03:44:00 Pm
If its really bankrupt in 8 years like you say which I dont doubt. Then all of us paying an extra 3% is a total waste. Its a drop in the bucket and it is not going to make a damn bit of difference to guarantee us who have a ways to go on this job that we are going to get one. I say HELL NO!!!!
Anonymous said...
Let's see...underfunded and we want to increase the payout to 80%?? That should put it into bankruptcy faster...
2/14/2013 03:43:00 PM
YEP!! The whole thing stinks. Just Vote NO
Anonymous said...
Everyone is talking about increasing our contribution 3% 4% 5%, but it wouldn't matter if we put in 20% a year. This aint shit and will not have any impact on the pension. So, if we do pay more who's to say the scum that run this state will do their part? Why would anyone believe them? So what happens if they fund it a little and in 10-15 years we are back in the same place. How many times have politicians lies and gone back on their word? Too many to count. Remember this is Illinois the worst state in the nation and most corrupt. Why voluntarily give anything to these lying Illinois politicians. People need to ask what will the state do if we pay more? Otherwise what's the point.
2/14/2013 02:47:00 PM
Well said. The amount of money needed to sustain this is more than the workers could ever pay in.
How about everyone retire with the same pension regardless of rank.
Plenty of other cities do it.
Could you imagine how much of a better department that would create.
RHAM 2016 Hills VP Watch
gee Sarge make sure your physically there on the scene from now on I will NOT put you on the paper........ anymore
2015 and out Bye Bye RAHMBOOOOOOOOOOO
The City by law must fund the pensions. This was written into law during the compromise for the two tier pension passed in 2012.
So yes the Pensions are sustainable!
The consequence is the City will be forced to cut spending elsewhere (Maggie Daley park, Planter Boxes, etc.)
All the other major Departments provide for 50 and out.
CPD officers deserve no less.
2/14/2013 09:46:00 AM
--------------------------------
Is that the best you can do to justify your money? That is SO lame.
What if they were 20% less? Would you say we should give back 20%? No you would say "Hey F' them! We make more money than they do."
Well now the shoe is on the other foot. You want a better deal? Go join the other department.
This whole thing about "we have to get paid as much as them is BS". Your city has poor economic development strategies and the state is no better.
To translate that - if you are NOT getting businesses to move in and create jobs that yield tax revenues, you cannot keep paying YOU 3-4% raises a year.
Realize this. The well has run dry. It doesn't matter how it happened - it is dry. Better realize even with the Constitution, you cannot guarantee money that isn't there.
All the name calling and back stabbing is just what was expected, congratulations on not letting the city down. Now anyone who calls the people who may choose to vote yes on this proposal scabs, you must NEVER have worked ANY VSWO because anyone who has is a scab and the cause of why we are still short at least 2,000 people on the department and will continue to remain that way. Just think how much of a difference 2,000 more contributors to the pension would make. But hey keep selling out and calling others scabs for trying to do something to rectify this mess.
it may sound like he makes a good point which he does however a lawsuit in this case will not/cannot do anything unfortunately.
i cant believe this "deal" its insane that its even going out for a vote. what a screwing.
vote NO let it go to arbitrator, you may get better. cant get much worse. the retirement is court challangeable he wont mess with that.,
Remember the past FOP president and reps he came from.....
Our Property Taxs to go up to pay for this BS City is done good bye the next Detroit
Vote yes!!!!!!!!!!! Save your pension. Don't listen to those who have self interests and will ruin your retirement
It's about time one of the unions realized we can't leave it up to politicians to take care of us. Good job PBPA. Vote yes sgts, save everyone's pension.
Other municipalities are changing pensions to 57. 53? No brainier.
hey all you alarmist scary cats . vote NO! and stand up and fight for your rights. stop with this defeatist mentality. "its not so bad etc.." stand united, send a message..
Did you see the headline on the Drudge report? It's the top story:'GODFATHER' CONSIDERS RUN FOR WHITE HOUSE. Holy fuck are we in trouble!!!!!!
I have an AA from RJD College. I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer that's for sure. BUT for the SGTs to just 'give it up' w/o a fight? ...and the Ding Dong award goes to....
Are you kidding me guys? Rahm already said now this will free up more money right now for this and that and he wants to change the law that was supposed to have been passed in 2015 (?) to divert city funds. It's already starting. The law was passed for a reason the now SGTs make a concession and Rham is alreay cash juggling. C'mon man.
The sign idea is an great angle and it might get a little traction in some areas where the media will be in short order like the southside parade location.
Anonymous said...
Lets look at this age 53..Very few retire at this age..Most will do the extra 2 for the health-care...So why 53???? Because it is the camels nose in the tent...Once the city is allowed to change the Pension for current cops its over for even those retired...
I agree. It's setting up a bad precedence for the future. Why bother with a constitution then? 53 then next contract nudge it up to 55 then 58 and soon you will be at 63. Guys in their 40s now will forever be chasing their retirement date until 63. Don't think "Oh, well I was staying until 55 anyhow." Bad precedence Ade.
OT: LMAO seeing picture on front page of Slum-Times with baby momma screaming bout not closing schools. 98% baby momma. Where daddy? And the 2 fattest ones-one wiff doo rag on her head-are standin howlin the loudest. Yea demand shit and dont pay a penny towards boo edumacation. HUH
Oh look!
Commonwealth Edison Co. got the Legislature to give it annual rate hikes. Now Peoples Gas would like the same favor.
Peoples-backed legislation introduced in the Illinois Senate Wednesday would permit the natural gas utility serving Chicago to boost delivery rates up to 5 percent annually over the next decade.
Let's see... five percent annual increase over the next decade.
If you're heating bill is $100 dollars..
Year
00 - $100
01 - $105
02 - $110.25
03 = $115.76
04 - $121.55
05 - $127.62
06 - $134.00
07 - $140.71
08 - $147.74
09 - $155.13
10 - $162.88
Looks like a 62.88 increase in your heating bill after ten years.
Don't be surprised if it doesn't show up in the BLS cost of living index though. It's likely to be toss out of the calc by using the Hedonic Quality Adjustment. Natural gas heat is too expensive so it will be substituted by electricity, or solar, or coal, or fuel oil. Maybe wood for a wood fireplace.
See the cost of living index says the cost of living due to rising energy prices didn't affect you because you switched to wood...even though you still have the gas furnace and are using gas.
FIVE percent..and what was that proposed pension COLA again?
Anonymous said...
gee Sarge make sure your physically there on the scene from now on I will NOT put you on the paper........ anymore
2/14/2013 08:13:00 PM
...................
Grow the fuck up, you idiot!!
"Retired Sergeants should boycott the Retiree Dinner on 28 Feb 2013.
W R O N G ! ! !
All Ret Sgt's should attend.
Scream & shout. Throw potatos at Ade. Stand on the tables and moon him! I wish I was a Ret Sgt!
Anonymous said...
as a sgt. i see this contract as both good and bad. the retirement fund and the state are in bad shape, the city is not too far behind. i realized that we were going to have to make some concessions to continue to insure the pension fund would be around.tom cross is going to stick it to us as soon as he can, the public will be behind him as he spreads his doom and gloom about the finances of Il and chicago. how do we insure the future without showing some willingness to give a little. all i hear is don't give an inch, they will then take a mile. if you don't like jim ade tell him to his face not by tearing him up on this site. the fop did such a fine deal by forgetting to file that letter, now we are backstabbers, where were you mike when negotiations started, advising, offering your expertise. wake up its time to face reality of how this state and city are in the crapper.
2/14/2013 07:38:00 PM
Yes, we all understand the state of the pension, but what good does us "giving a little more" do if the politicians don't do their part? Us giving a little more isn't shit and will be a complete waste if the pension stays underfunded. 3% 4% 5% or even 50% more from each of us is nothing.
Me Too; I'm almost ready to retire as a SGT. this contract proposal will make sure I lose half of my COLA, and the State has not even visited this issue again, but a union, is going to give it up for me, what FUCKING NERVE!!!! Jim Ade and the rest of this board should be ashamed of themselves, thinking we SGTS. are idiots. FUCK YOU ADE!!!!!
Anonymous said...
Vote yes!!!!!!!!!!! Save your pension. Don't listen to those who have self interests and will ruin your retirement
-----------------------------------
really dude? its the other way around. your pension is fine, the city is throwing away money, and has multiple revenue sources.i.e taxes, conventions,/sales of assets casino? and your pension has legal protections. so why would you voluntarily give that up.?- retard. (no offense to retards)
Realize this. The well has run dry. It doesn't matter how it happened - it is dry. Better realize even with the Constitution, you cannot guarantee money that isn't there.
2/14/2013 08:25:00 PM
so, your solution is to top up the well with our blood and sweat and tears, whilst the bloodsuckers continue to suck it dry.
fuck that.
start splitting the oaken logs into stakes.
How about everyone retire with the same pension regardless of rank.
Plenty of other cities do it.
Could you imagine how much of a better department that would create.
2/14/2013 08:08:00 PM
can you imagine the cacophony of woeful wails emitting from betwixt the shit stained lips of the anointed ones?
and what the bitter crew of political butt nuzzlers would do?
the rivers of snot juices mixed with formerly crocodile tears would flow like stale wine, turning the gutters into festering ponds of stagnant, inbred pestilent sludge.
oh, the inhumanity!!!
Rahm obviously has his minions posting on this blog trying to drum up support. He learned a lot in Washington and not surprising he was despised there and here. Do not let this bully put a wedge between the ranks. We should never give anything up without a fight. Why should we get any less than the teachers. Say what you want about Karen Lewis but she stood up to Rahm unlike Ade, who sold everyone out.
The city continues to cry poor but has millions for parks, bike lanes, and special interest projects. Force the city to open the books. Remember thay had money left over in TIF funds and the NATO reimbursement and what did they do with it? Never have they suggested that those funds be used to shore up the pensions or hire more police. we are not a priority and the money is there, don't be fooled. Rahm cannot be trusted and if you vote yes you will reap what you sow. Wake Up
1. What is Jim Ade's hat size?
2. Who is more unpleasant to deal with Rick Aguilar of FOP or Paul Bilotta of the Sgt's Assc.?
3. What if any retiree organization was involved in this?
4. Would you have a drink with any of the Sgt’s Assc. Executive Board in Washington D.C.?
5. Should the retiree’s sue the Sgt’s Assc.?
6. Has Jim Ade answered any retiree’s phone call or email in the last three days?
7. Does anyone other than Jim Ade and Rahm think that the Illinois House or Senate will give them a 80% pension?
8. Will be ballots be counted out in the open or is this done in the same backroom that Ade and Rahm used?
9. Can you make a guess what Jim gets from Rahm for this?
10. And how many Sgt’s will go to Springfield and support Rahm’s Pension reform and go against the rest of organized labor? If more than Jim Ade can you please name them?
wake up its time to face reality of how this state and city are in the crapper.
2/14/2013 07:38:00 PM
it's time to face up to who is shitting on who.
and it ain't the working stiffs doing the shitting on.
The news is that Emanuel wants to run for president in 2016. No surprise. He will run away from this city and the total mess he made of it.
2/14/2013 07:31:00 PM
only if he still has legs by then.
To the spineless and the quick to bow before the political hacks running this ship, step aside and let the adults figure this out and fight for a decent contract. If the teacher's union did it, we should be able to at least make this shell of a human/mayor flinch.
2/14/2013 06:42:00 PM
he'll pee his panties in a new york minute, if, and only if, the Tomato Mafia initiates Plan V.
They always find money to pay the leeches their LINK cards and all of the other handouts to non-working people. Why isn't cutting that an issue in the headlines? Why is it always pension cuts for those who actually worked and earned it. Vote out any politician who lifts a finger to try to take what we earned.
2/14/2013 06:34:00 PM
within your suggested solution lies the answer to your previous questions.
Have any of you looked at the assets? The police pension has 4 BILLION in assets. How can 4 Billion + interest + current contributions disappear in 8 years? in 10 years? in 15 years? Even the past couple years the fund hasn't touched assets and has earned a respectable rate of the return given the overall economic climate. The city should be required to pay into the fund on the same schedule they would be required to pay into social security. Come on people, if a business doesn't make FICA payments to the fed on time the business is fined and required to pay immediately why should payments to the pension be any different? Moreover, you people need to stop acting like a bunch of whiny hormonal teens and stand together for something. Grow up, stand together and don't allow city halls derisive techniques divide and conquer. Hold your heads high and remember each and every one of you have earned the pay and benefits you receive while well over half of the city you protect, collects unearned handouts that are not at risk of being cut, changed or otherwise altered.
-a grateful citizen
Tommorrow Rahm will announce that Jim Ade will be his selection for the pension board.
...will the liberals ever stop fucking things up?
2/14/2013 05:48:00 PM
only when we start fucking up the liberals.
Sometimes I feel so bad for the sergeants that I just cry and cry.
To 5:55 am. Paul B would write up himself for being late. What a fkhead. Was a banker B4 the job. By the way has a very bad hair implant
...NONE of these fuckers will have a choice any longer other than to take it out of the taxpayers rather than their crony's pockets.
2/14/2013 05:26:00 PM
I'd prefer that they'd choose to take it out of their cronies pockets, since they've already taken it out of my pockets and scammed it into their cronies pockets.
I'd prefer it so much that I'd rather their hands be chopped off at the wrist then for them to choose to take it, for a second time, out of my pockets.
My pockets are not happy.
I do, however, have a hatchet, or two, to contribute to the pot.
Taxpayer Joe
One thing that has hurt the pension is the gold braids. I know many politically connected brass that make $70 to $150 a year on the pension. That is just plain sick and needs to be fixed.
Again, what ever happened to rhamhead opening up the books for a forensic audit when elected. Maybe I missed that one. He makes Daley look like a choir boy (woman)
Yeah I'm rambling so I'll quit. Just remember the words of a politician don't mean shit. Don't mean doink even if it's in writing.
2/14/2013 05:22:00 PM
politicians should be at the top of the list of open season game.
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Another Negotiations Victory! (This Time For Me)
That Jimmy Ade sure is one tough negotiator!
Hold on! Whew, I almost pissed my pants from laughing so hard when I typed that first sentence. I still cannot believe I was able to pull this one over on the sergeants union. Now, if the sergeants themselves are actually dumb enough to ratify this and I can bullshit the State Legislature, then I've effectively got my hands in the pockets of each and every working and retired copper regardless of their rank. Remember, you're all in the same pension fund and any legislation would affect you all.
The sergeant's union agreed to contribute an additional three percent of their earnings to fund the Police Pension without any matching funds from the City coffers.
I'm sure you're asking yourselves why any union would agree this. I'm right there with you asking myself the same question. You all know I've been in a panic what with the Actuarial Recommended Contributions that the City will be required to contribute into the pension funds in the not too distant future. By agreeing to the extra three percent, the union is effectively bailing out the City by lessening its required obligation to the Police Pension Fund. Yours Truly could not be any happier with this decision. This alone makes it a victory. But wait, it gets better.
Remember that three percent COLA that retirees born before 1955 used to get. I say used to get because if this thing goes through that will be a thing of the past. They will only get a two and one-half percent COLA. Not every year mind you, but every other year. Don't ask me why they wanted this. It baffles me too, but that's still not the end. It gets even better.
Retirees who retired at 55 years of age with twenty years of service used to receive free healthcare. Let me repeat that. Free healthcare. You probably noticed that I used the phrase "used to" again. I did because the free healthcare will be a thing of the past. Retirees will now be required to pay two percent of their annuity to pay for their healthcare. Again, you may ask why and again I don't have any real idea. All I know is that for a guy who is trying desperately to get out of the retiree healthcare issue this is a win. Kinda reminds me of that Podgorny thing several years back when he tried to convince FOP members that a buck a check for healthcare wasn't all that much to pay. Look what I get for healthcare from them today. Many thanks, Bob. Maybe next contract we can bump up the retiree contributions to say twenty percent. I almost can't wait for this contract to be over and it hasn't even begun.
I still do have one question on my mind. I wonder what it would take to get the FOP to take attorney Tom Pleines back into the fold. I would just love for him to be on their negotiating team. At the very least it would likely ensure another big win for me.
Rahm
There IS a mechanism to fix this fucking problem, it's called TAXATION whether you fucking like it or not.
2/14/2013 05:15:00 PM
so, support your local politician touting raising taxes.
or become a politician touting raising taxes.
you should be able to get more than enough signatures on your nominating petitions from the voters residing within the tax consuming zones, if your complexion is the acceptable shade of brown.
Why is that I wonder? And how can this be rectified?
2/14/2013 05:11:00 PM
as you observed, remove the rectums from the equation.
Vote yes!!!!!!!!!!! Save your pension. Don't listen to those who have self interests and will ruin your retirement
2/14/2013 08:59:00 PM
-----------
What? You're bored? Gotta stir the pot?
No way did this post come from one of us.
Anonymous said...
Retired Sergeants should boycott the Retiree Dinner on 28 Feb 2013.
2/14/2013 07:09:00 PM
----
Yes! Deny your fellow sergeants one of the better moments of their new retirement! Do NOT go and honor them or wish them well in this new phase of their life!
Idiot.
That's not the only lawsuit coming. When the guy who got arrested for having a legal carbine unloaded and cased in his trunk after shooting at a gun range gets done with this city, Rahm will be paying the NRA again.
And shame on the so called cops who pulled this unconstitutional bullshit.
If all the readers out there remember one thing and one thing only, it's this- "This city isn't broke until they open up all their books and accounts to scrutiny". Make this a mantra, tattoo in on your forehead backwards, write it out 1000 times, etc. Parasites realize when the host they have infested is dead because if the host dies, the parasite dies if it doesn't secure a new host. No one is lobbying to privatize the parking meters in Detroit as far as I know.
To the spineless and the quick to bow before the political hacks running this ship, step aside and let the adults figure this out and fight for a decent contract. If the teacher's union did it, we should be able to at least make this shell of a human/mayor flinch.
2/14/2013 06:42:00 PM
------
More simply put, "This city ain't broke until the TIFs are empty."
And those funds are FAR from empty.
Anonymous said...
Here is the last paragraph to the agreement:
Hold Harmless:
City to offer representation and hold Sergeants Union harmless in event of litigation from retirees challenging pension changes.
What this means is when the lawsuits against the union come in, the city will pay any damages if neccessary.
2/14/2013 01:05:00 AM
Why should taxpayers be responsible for this?
----------
Because they voted the guy into office... Next stupid question?
For some reason, the NYPD pension fund is currently at 60.1% funding ratio, DOUBLE that of Chicago.
Why is that I wonder? And how can this be rectified?
2/14/2013 05:11:00 PM
-------------
It is funded by a City of New York income tax.
On 28 Feb 13 CPSA will be running salute our retirees dinner at St. Ignatius H.S. I for one will not be attending and I am requesting that no retired Sgt attends either even if you have a ticket. If anything we should picket the event. Somehow I think Jimmy Ade will have the flu on that day too.
I almost threw up in the car when Rahm said on the radio “Jim and I” then Rahm said he was going to use this agreement as a blueprint over the rest of labor in the city.
Any active Sgt should fill out his/her ballot at the front desk or the ad desk in the area and let everyone see how they voted. It may be a smart move because if this passes things are going to get very ugly very fast. Don’t be branded as a scab for Rahm. There are going to be hard feelings for a lot of years if this passes. If you were not on the job during the fire strike ask the older guys how bad it got.
How does it feel Jimmy boy to be the most hated member in the history of the police department. J-Fed screwed Cozzi but Jimmy boy you just screwed thousands.
PS: if any Sergeant who has gone to any of Jimmy boy’s informational meetings please post what he said. How did he justify taking away earned benefits from people already retired? How do you feel about the attitude let the retirees sue Rahm will indemnify us?
Anonymous said...
Riddle me this, why would a Lt. assigned to the Marine Unit/Helicopter Unit as the C.O. elect to be reassigned to 005 as the field Lt?
So Lt Mike Shields could begin his assent again. Remember him, Michelle Obama's cousin....that's why!
2/14/2013 06:53:00 PM
__________________________________
You mean assent by taking a ride in the helicopter?
That's where this needs to be before the courts.
Rahm thinks he's slick in bamboozling a smaller union.
He then can use that union in his dog and pony show and portray all other unions as greedy and unreasonable.
Fuck you Rahm. You're a slimy,union busting, bastard.
2/14/2013 03:12:00 AM
You're right that is a possible strategy. It also makes me wonder if the dog and pony show does not include some agreement with the fop. Could it be possible that the negotiations for rank of police were purposely positioned to be negotiated in July 2013 to ensure this crap went through? I hate to be paranoid but there is no one you can trust anymore.
I'm just curious, show of hands please, how many of you think the current pension system, as funded and as distributed, is sustainable? Question 2, how many retirees would give a rat's ass if they were grandfathered in? Question 3, both Colorado and Minnesota have successfully altered their"constitutionally protected" pensions that have so far passed court challenges, how many of you believe changes to the pensions are not already in the works?
Yeah, that's what I thought
2/14/2013 03:40:00 AM
Look, most of us realize that we will likely have to contribute more. That is not the issue. While you're giving quizzes, ask yourself how the city can be confident that they will have the money to pay Sgt's their pensions and also police officers if they are so broke and must reduce benefits. They are asking for extra contributions, that will help the city meet its obligation. What else will help is to stop spending money on unnecessary things like parks and other cosmetic improvements that are not an emergency now. The city could sacrifice a little too. Reform does not have to mean screwing people over.
Banks and corporations screw off their assets and then dump employees or play with their pension to fix the problem caused by mismanagement. But if joe citizen fails to make a payment on his home so he can shore up his bottom line, there is outrage. The city and state take their irresponsibility out on the workers and fully intend to reduce our pensions and benefits to fund their irresponsibility and negligence. I'm voting no. It's wrong and I won't give in without a fight.
Please quit the bitching and moaning. Most people get no pension. Retiring at 50 or 53 is unimaginable for almost everyone. Grow up. Shut up. Be thankful.
A Chicago taxpayer
Divide and conquer
This is getting nasty fast.
Some retired Sgts. have contacted the WE ARE ONE coalition and want to picket the Sgts union hall during one of Ade's informational meetings. They called FOP this morning about where to get signs printed. FOP told them to cool down for now but WE ARE ONE is a little bit interested.
The print shop that produced the signs “Proud Union Home” has been contacted for a quote but declined to print “Sergeants are scabbing for Rahm”. They do not want to use the word scab but are willing to do some other wording. Surprisingly the signs are expensive. Better than 10 bucks a piece for coragated plastic with wire bracket. I'm sure some will print them somewhere else thou. I will post a date and time if this goes thru.
2/14/2013 01:35:00 PM
Stop trying to discourage the retiree picket. Guys I will do your signs. They will not be expensive. Call me.
Sometimes I feel so bad for the sergeants that I just cry and cry.
2/14/2013 10:58:00 PM
Missy? Is that you?
Anonymous said...
Please quit the bitching and moaning. Most people get no pension. Retiring at 50 or 53 is unimaginable for almost everyone. Grow up. Shut up. Be thankful.
A Chicago taxpayer
2/15/2013 01:23:00 AM
If you don't find the bitching and moaning palatable, go read some other blog.
Anonymous said...
On 28 Feb 13 CPSA will be running salute our retirees dinner at St. Ignatius H.S. I for one will not be attending and I am requesting that no retired Sgt attends either even if you have a ticket. If anything we should picket the event. Somehow I think Jimmy Ade will have the flu on that day too.
I almost threw up in the car when Rahm said on the radio “Jim and I” then Rahm said he was going to use this agreement as a blueprint over the rest of labor in the city.
Any active Sgt should fill out his/her ballot at the front desk or the ad desk in the area and let everyone see how they voted. It may be a smart move because if this passes things are going to get very ugly very fast. Don’t be branded as a scab for Rahm. There are going to be hard feelings for a lot of years if this passes. If you were not on the job during the fire strike ask the older guys how bad it got.
How does it feel Jimmy boy to be the most hated member in the history of the police department. J-Fed screwed Cozzi but Jimmy boy you just screwed thousands.
PS: if any Sergeant who has gone to any of Jimmy boy’s informational meetings please post what he said. How did he justify taking away earned benefits from people already retired? How do you feel about the attitude let the retirees sue Rahm will indemnify us?
2/15/2013 12:05:00 AM
It's a function to HONOR the retirees. If you want to make it a political statement, then everybody wear a red ribbon, or a black armband, or a yellow hat. But don't deny the retirees their evening. You won't be hurting Ade or Rahm by sitting home that night.
A silent protest by wearing a ribbon of some sort will make the point without being ignorant toward the retirees. It isn't YOUR night; it's theirs.
The way to let Jim Ade know how we feel is to stand in FRONT of him and let him know.
"all of you young cement head coppers better pay attention to this--- if the city gets their way with the sgts it will set a precedent with us the blue boys in future negotiations---"
Wrong!!! It does not set precedence! Rules of precedence pertain to FOP only in respect to "us boys in blue" you turd!
Post a Comment
<< Home