Lack of Audio
The article opens with a description of...well, there's no easy way to put this - plain old fucking stupidity. Cops throwing microphones on the roof of 016? How that can be excused, we have no idea.
But further down the article, there's this:
But further down the article, there's this:
- IPRA has referred 24 incidents to the Cook County state’s attorney’s office this year for review of possible misconduct by Chicago cops. Twenty-two of those involved police shootings, and the other two involved other allegations of excessive force.
IPRA provided the state’s attorney’s office with dashcam videos in just three of the 24 cases.
And none of the videos had any audio of police officers talking, according to Sally Daly, a spokeswoman for State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez.
These stats are so incomplete as to be meaningless.
- HeyJackass.com only lists 21 police shootings on the year and their disclaimer reads that they might not all be CPD;
- The Sun Times says 22 shooting incidents have been refered to the States Attorney for "possible misconduct," a 105% rate of referral if HeyJackass.com is correct;
- Only 3 of these incidents had dash-cam footage, not surprising as many shootings occur somewhere away from the car, but that isn't explained in the article;
- None of the 3 had audio
While a 100% failure rate of audio might seem unlikely, the Department spokesweasel admits that up to 12% of cameras are down daily for "issues" and the audio failure rate approached 80% for other reasons, including broken equipment, operator error, or what we will politely call sabotage.
We make no excuses for the intentional damage issue - you get caught, you will get hammered. But the cheap equipment the City buys, the slapdash installation, the complete lack of maintenance - these things are in use 24/7/365 with no time outs for upkeep. You buy garbage, it's going to fail, regularly and predictably. The antennae are as cheap or cheaper than a 1990's flip phone antennae. We're wearing them, open and unprotected on a body that already carries a gun, Taser, magazine pouches, OC spray, collapsible baton, handcuff case, maybe two handcuff cases, radio carrier, and a vest stuffed with rubber gloves, FOP book, complaint books, pens, a radio cord that stretches from the belt to our radio strap. We're amazed the antennae survive a tour.
None of this is mentioned in the article, just the 100% failure of audio to exist, despite the myriad of plausible reasons we've just given for there to be none on a regular basis. It's isn't some grand conspiracy - it's a calculated effort to pinch-a-penny at the expense of the street officer to be properly equipped.
We make no excuses for the intentional damage issue - you get caught, you will get hammered. But the cheap equipment the City buys, the slapdash installation, the complete lack of maintenance - these things are in use 24/7/365 with no time outs for upkeep. You buy garbage, it's going to fail, regularly and predictably. The antennae are as cheap or cheaper than a 1990's flip phone antennae. We're wearing them, open and unprotected on a body that already carries a gun, Taser, magazine pouches, OC spray, collapsible baton, handcuff case, maybe two handcuff cases, radio carrier, and a vest stuffed with rubber gloves, FOP book, complaint books, pens, a radio cord that stretches from the belt to our radio strap. We're amazed the antennae survive a tour.
None of this is mentioned in the article, just the 100% failure of audio to exist, despite the myriad of plausible reasons we've just given for there to be none on a regular basis. It's isn't some grand conspiracy - it's a calculated effort to pinch-a-penny at the expense of the street officer to be properly equipped.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:35 AM
111 Comments:
Can't wait to get my body cam.
OT: Interesting piece about Baltimore cops going "on camera." Bet the public didn't see this effect coming.
That there are no "breaks." No more saying "you were a little late on that red light but I am going to give you a pass." And he tells that to the motorist. She asks for a break, he says he can't because it is all on camera now.
Looks like the public got what it asked for.
4-6PM rush hour parking? 5:58PM---here's your ticket.
Why isnt anyone bringing up that when these cameras first came out we were told that audio only has to be on for traffic stops in violation of IVC violations.
No other time are these mics supposed to be on. I even remember being told the only time there to be removed from the vehicle is on a traffic stop that's it.
My god , who still gives a fuck ? Just wait till the new contact card goes into effect next year . That coupled with the body camera will make it a very good time to be a bad guy .
If you are going to get hammered for it, time to hammer back. Down the car if the equipment is not working. Make the bosses document the car is not 100%.
Does anyone have any statistics on how many cars with their special equipment are in poor shape? I want my police to have good, functioning equipment. It protects them, it protects me, it even protects the criminals too. What are us taxpayers paying for?
Keep working hard! Get those movers, parkers, contact cards, and curfews! The double merit promoted bosses have your back. They'll tell you so just like they'll tell you studying hard got them promoted with high test scores. You'll believe them because it's all legit!
While I haven't read the order since it first came out, it originally stated that audio will only be engaged for traffic stops. Has that changed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember taking the dash cam class and they said you can only audio record during a traffic violation without people's consent. So there should not be any audio recording of these incidents unless they made a traffic violation. I admittedly am a terrible student but I believe they did say this during the class due to the eavesdropping law in Illinois.
That hundred percent stat is there only to fool the mindless minions.
When the cameras came on in 07 ish, I was trained that there was a mic in the grill, in the inside of the cabin, and the big box seat belt catchers. Was I dreaming? Anyone else remember this?
Obviously never be of these morons do research as to state law; it says that audio shall only be used for IVC incidents and nothing else. So the fact that there isn't any video, it's not against the law. As smarter of fact if you record someone aside from IVC, you may be in violation of state law
They sell better stuff at a flea market.
"We're wearing them, open and unprotected on a body that already carries a gun, Taser, magazine pouches, OC spray, collapsible baton, handcuff case, maybe two handcuff cases, radio carrier, and a vest stuffed with rubber gloves, FOP book, complaint books, pens, a radio cord that stretches from the belt to our radio strap."
And contact cards, don't forget lots of contact cards.
Can't sugarcoat this one, SCC...Officers tossing their mikes up on the roof of 016? Those officers should be fired. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more than a few of them find their punishment being decided at the Police Board. And so it goes, as we continually shoot ourselves in both feet. Outrageous.
Retired guy here bet they aren't pinching pennies paying high end money to connected for cheap equipment
Liars figure, figures lie and the media is not your friend. Amen.
Typical media, they perpetually lie by omission.
An upside to being a school officer in a shit hole district:
We always get the absolute worst vehicles. Which 9 outta 10 times means the cameras aint workin, if there's one at all.
They also tend to give us the cars with no cage.
So, no camera to help jam you up. Can't do transports because, no cage.
And you guys thought it was weekends off that keep us there.
Its funny that they say shooting incidents with no audio, yet from my understanding the camera and mics are only for use during traffic stops, if they catch other incidents then so be it , i would lime to know how many of the shooting incidents occured during a t stop. Also the mic need to charge at some point ( 8hrs supposedly) when the car is on the go none stop for 3 tours when is that supposed to happen. I too would like to know exactly where I'm supposed to attach to my vest at as i don't happen to see any clips on the mics ?
Cops, apparently unhappy with orders from top Chicago Police Department brass to wear microphones, recently took matters into their own hands on the Northwest Side: They threw them onto the roof of the Jefferson Park police station.
They should be arrested for damaging police property.
You don't see protesters taking there guns and throwing them on the roof.
Nor there walkie talkies.
Without the Legendary CPD maintenance, the failure rate could be even higher! I two years this program will be history.
Recall the PDT's, the station printers, and station surveillance. Hell, we can even depend on a Radio that will last an entire tour. Also remember that GPS on cars was to solve a lot of issues. Soon they will have to replace the cameras, and that alone will double the cost. Maybe they should have waited, and thought about it instead of kneejerking it.
Hi SCC. Can we start a thread on this? Interesting topic!
WILL RAHM RESTORE HIGHLY DECORATED AND RESPECTED COMMANDER GLENN EVANS OR WILL HE UNJUSTLY FIRE HIM AND CAUSE THE TAX PAYERS MORE $ IN A WRONGFUL TERMINATION LAW SUIT?
Read this editorial by the Tribune that explains how Evans was falsely accused, horribly framed by IPRA and how he exposed the Cook County States Attorney's Office after they coached the alleged victim with testimony! We would be indicted for doing that with a witness!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-glenn-evans-laquan-police-acquitted-edit-1215-jm-20151214-story.html
Tribune
Editorial Board
Chicagoans have gotten used to seeing police brutality exposed, and the case of Glenn Evans was taken by many people to be an example of that. The veteran police commander was charged with ramming his service pistol down a suspect's throat. But on Monday, a Cook County judge acquitted Evans on all charges: two counts of aggravated battery and seven counts of official misconduct. The judge concluded that Evans' accuser was not believable and the evidence wasn't persuasive.
Some citizens will take this as more evidence that the system is tilted in favor of bad cops, that the Chicago Police Department turns a blind eye to abuses and that the city has no effective means of punishing such misconduct. But the public ought to defer to the judge's evaluation of the case. Sometimes cops are falsely accused, and there was more than enough reason to think that this was one of those instances.
Evans' lawyers, after all, didn't have to prove him innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution had to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and it failed in the eyes of an experienced judge who has seen and heard countless witnesses in her nearly two decades on the bench.
The prosecution's case rested on a couple of planks: the testimony of the arrestee, Rickey Williams, who said Evans brutalized him, and the DNA from Williams found on Evans' gun. But Judge Diane Cannon said the DNA was "of fleeting relevance or significance," because it could have come from other contact.
The accuser, captured in a foot chase after Evans said he saw him holding a gun, was not exactly a strong witness. He failed to pick Evans out of several photo lineups, and he changed his story that Evans held his pistol in his left hand after prosecutors advised him that the commander wore his holster on his right hip.
Williams said he spat out blood afterward, but he didn't seek medical treatment. He said Evans applied a Taser to his groin, but Sheila Jackson, the officer in charge of issuing stun guns, testified that Evans wasn't given one that day. Williams was "eager to change his testimony at anyone's request to accommodate the evidence," the judge found.
If the trial failed to prove Evans' guilt, it succeeded in exposing the failings of the Independent Police Review Authority, which has responsibility for investigating allegations of misconduct by Chicago cops. It is known for moving slowly and rarely finding police officers at fault.
Despite Evans' high position, former chief administrator Scott Ando admitted he didn't review the case before it was referred to the Cook County state's attorney's office. Ando asked staffers to learn whether Evans was left-handed, but no one did.
An investigator said Jackson told her Evans could have gotten a Taser without checking it out, but Jackson testified that she would never have allowed that to happen — and the investigator didn't write up her report of the interview until 15 months later. The investigator who turned over the DNA taken from the gun didn't know that all of it would be used up in testing, leaving none for any additional tests.
SCC: your logical explanation is a start. How about FOP ( or someone) explain that a complaint against an Officer is just an allegation, and the Officer is innocent until proven guilty. The majority of the time the complaint is completely unfounded and filed to "fling the stink" away from the offender. The majority of Officers, especially the working police, who get multiple complaints are not bad apples! It's just the cost of doing business. That is the main reason for time limits, redaction , and limiting public release. This, like the audio issue and dozens more, is one of many topics that the "organizers" and the media take out of context and run with like it is pure fact and gospel.
I have not seen any fact based release by any competent law enforcement advocates (FOP, national FOP, NIJ, etc.) that places all of these hot button topics in CONTEXT (except for this and other topic posts you've made). The hustlers and baiters are throwing these things out to support their position and we are not effectively shutting them down. As the old saying goes: there's lies, damed lies and statistics. I've seen hundreds of studies and reports about policing in America, but rarely do any of them touch on the real issues. It's time for a comprehensive white paper that addresses these issues in CONTEXT, so that when we sit down to have "THAT DISCUSSION," it's a balanced discussion and not a "teaching moment lecture."
What does all that equipment weigh?
Not to beat a head horse but After reading Mary Mitchell's column on the life and times of LaQuan McDonald where exactly did he graduate from? The picture that the news media keeps showing of him in a nice shirt and tie in that bright red cap and gown is starting to heart my eyes. Also, who exactly got the 5,000.000 in his fractured family. I hope the state got their share since they raised the self admitted gang member. Funny there was no mention of his criminal past (he is dead so he doesn't have juvenile identity rights) and the fact that he stated he has "rank" in the Four Corner Hustlers street gang and could get some one "stomped out". But the media keeps showing that mystery graduation photo. Maybe it was just a Holloween costume?
After reading Mary Mitchell's column I this Mr McDonald committed "suicide by police" and therefore Officer Van Dyke's charges should be dropped.
I'm sure that someday they'll add a Bomarang as another force option and mounted cross draw from your baton.
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
The equipment is cheap junk. The transistor radio I soldered together in boy scouts was more reliable than the coban crap we were given.
When the cameras came on in 07 ish, I was trained that there was a mic in the grill, in the inside of the cabin, and the big box seat belt catchers. Was I dreaming? Anyone else remember this?
You are not dreaming. Audio up to 25ft from the squad when the emergency lights are activated.
OT: Interesting piece about Baltimore cops going "on camera." Bet the public didn't see this effect coming.
That there are no "breaks." No more saying "you were a little late on that red light but I am going to give you a pass." And he tells that to the motorist. She asks for a break, he says he can't because it is all on camera now.
Looks like the public got what it asked for.
4-6PM rush hour parking? 5:58PM---here's your ticket.
12/20/2015 01:55:00 AM
Good point. The age of "officer discretion' is over. You get stopped for traffic, you get the ticket. One small bag of weed that would have gone down the sewer, sorry, jail. Is that a can of beer on the public way? Ticket. You want to give me information on the next guy up the chain, sorry, no deals.
It's all on tape. There are no breaks. I am not losing my livelihood, my families future, for being decent to you. I can't. So who gets hurt? Joe Six Pack does. Who will benefit? The unscrupulous lawyers and the worst of the worst.
Congratulations to all of you regular Joes that pushed for this oversight. You worried so much about how well CRIMINALS were treated, you inadvertently shot yourself in the foot. I am not wagging my finger, I am just explaining how things are now.
They should be arrested for damaging police property.
You don't see protesters taking there guns and throwing them on the roof.
Nor there walkie talkies.
No, but I remember in the academy one of my late instructors saying, he was present when one fell from a roof way back in the day!
The city should have purchased Garmin 20 dash cams. Only $169.00 and has been working flawlessly in my personal cars for 2 years running. The coban trash cams the city purchased cant stand up to Garmin. When the city purchased the coban dash cams from the Texas company they sent up NON UNION installers. These NON UNION installer's had to use the lots or street to install these in the cars. They were not allowed to utilize any motor maintenance facility because they are union shops. So, what kind of quality installation do you expect to achieve on the street? Kind of the same effect as changing a flat on the street.
A few months after the initial installation of these coban dash cams, the same installation crews were back to make adjustments to the systems on the street of course. One of the installers asked me what I thought of the Cameras. I told him that they were cheap and worthless. He said , I work for coban. I laughed and told him, Then I guess you work for a shit company and walked away.
Frank Main, follow the contract of coban and you will see who they are connected to.
I can't HEAR you!
To the guy writing about Graduation pics, did you miss the memo? That's standard. Funny how there never is a Pic from college or on a College campus.
As far as cameras, I work in a district where MINIMUM 50-60 % (probably more) of the cameras don't work and have had ticket numbers for what seems like forever. Mics that don't work, etc. I wear my mic and use the camera whenever it works. WHENEVER it works I said. I would like for them to fix all of the cameras. Not because i'm a fan but God forbid I get into something and don't have a camera; the 'mobs' will be calling me racist, fascist, dirty, murderer and every other thing under the sun.
"That there are no "breaks." No more saying "you were a little late on that red light but I am going to give you a pass." And he tells that to the motorist. She asks for a break, he says he can't because it is all on camera now.
"Looks like the public got what it asked for."
12/20/2015 01:55:00 AM
The public got what the bm crowd, the out-of-state agitators and revs and GL players and so forth, asked for.
Now the people who pay will be...the people who pay tickets.
Rahm must love all this attention being put on our city's police department...... it takes attention away from all the corruption at City Hall.
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
12/20/2015 11:28:00 AM
LOL.....you are talking about the City spending money with someone that is not connected. When grant money comes out they buy the cheapest available, skim the rest and never maintain what they bought.
"But the media keeps showing that mystery graduation photo. Maybe it was just a Halloween costume?"
12/20/2015 10:58:00 AM
Who knows? All sorts of props available at photo studios. No law against someone putting on an outfit and holding a rolled-up piece of paper and getting a picture taken. Anything you like...
Makes as much sense as anything else.
I wonder how long LaQuan's suddenly-appeared-after-all-these-years fambly is going to have that $5 mil. Seen plenty of ignorant people go through that much like it was water. Rodney King ended up drifting at the bottom of a swimming pool, but it least it had his initials set into the tilework, right?
Rolled-over Lambos, still smoking, on the grass next to the Edens...driver miles away hiking like a mother___er to get away from the coke devils...
All sorts of characters must be swarming -- "money managers," revs who want to build "community centers," and the inevitable ones "seeking investment in a new studio to produce rap videos."
"A fool and its money are still foolish."
They should be arrested for damaging police property.
You don't see protesters taking there guns and throwing them on the roof.
Nor there walkie talkies.
12/20/2015 09:17:00 AM
Where did it state the microphones were damaged? If undamaged, their actions are a disciplinary issue. Immediately jumping to have the police arrested seems a bit suspect? Might you have a little hard-on for the police?
And, what the fuck do you mean with your unintelligible second and third sentences? Also, the word "their" and the word "there" are not interchangeable.
SCC: NEW TOPIC
Here it is: The New "Contact Card" order.
It just came out online Friday.
FYI ALL Department Directives can be found online for the public to access.
It goes into effect January 1st.
You better have a lawyer sitting next to you if you really plan on doing police work now!
The order:
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57b99-151b6927-49f15-1b69-2c32e99868b316b0.pdf?hl=true
Does anyone have any statistics on how many cars with their special equipment are in poor shape? I want my police to have good, functioning equipment. It protects them, it protects me, it even protects the criminals......
**********************************************your tax money is used to house, feed and finance the criminals. How about you do something worthwhile with that worthless degree of yours and maybe write an article on those issues instead. Merry Christmas
Can't sugarcoat this one, SCC...Officers tossing their mikes up on the roof of 016? Those officers should be fired. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more than a few of them find their punishment being decided at the Police Board. And so it goes, as we continually shoot ourselves in both feet. Outrageous.
12/20/2015 07:46:00 AM
Bite me. You do not have the entire story and, yet, you are demanding someone be fired. Asshole.
(OT) Just a slight rant:
Can officers passed up for promotion due to merit sue for the loss of wages? Violation of basic civil rights?
Can the pension board (Hello Mike Lappe) reduce pension payments to "merit" appointees since it was done with cheating? (Mike look into this to help save pension money? Why does rahms detail guys get the sergeants pay and pension for doing nothing more than valeting his family,and running red lights? Why does his detail commander a patrolmen get commanders huge pension payments? Ken Hauser pension guy it is "our" pension, put it out to membership for a vote to reduce to civil service rank pension payments,and if your merit you get 9161 (patrolmen s pension), as a police officer we are told in the academy that cheating and lying is a "rule 14" violation subject to immediate termination! Feds we know you read this blog what say you people?
The microphone situation? You give us junk lowest vendor (who got the envelope for this deal), this is worse than Mattel toys but yet you blame officers!
Why are the few new vehicles we get not set up by Ford at the factory with all emergency equipment properly placed and working? I can answer that! It is because you have "goober" from the garage a political hack who has no clue, installing lowest vendor equipment,that some alderman's cousin owns correct?
Why are there the array of "front line" cars sitting with extremely low mileage or new so the political elites can have them if their vehicle is in for service? Guess the working coppers don't need working equipment?
Do we even have a "news affairs" department anymore? Dean are you gagged, because no one seems to be speaking out for us you know the blue shirts that without us mayhem would be everywhere everyday!
The extremely anti-police scumtimes day after day attacking police, the columnists extremely pathetic in their "hate police" routs! Anyone playing defense?
McCarthy your the "bronx bullshitter" I tghink that was your nick name, now where are you hiding? Underneath a cover? In the corner" From a famous movie "Nobody puts Gary in the corner?" Or do they?
While I haven't read the order since it first came out, it originally stated that audio will only be engaged for traffic stops. Has that changed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changed in 2012.
God knows every lawyer has read it on-line.
READ the order:
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57bf0-12dc41eb-af712-dc48-ff1427a411b25de4.pdf?hl=true
The lowly grunts working a beat car will take a beating over this.
If you are going to get hammered for it, time to hammer back. Down the car if the equipment is not working. Make the bosses document the car is not 100%.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No son.
YOU document it.
The sergeant and DSS sign the TO/FROM report.
Why isnt anyone bringing up that when these cameras first came out we were told that audio only has to be on for traffic stops in violation of IVC violations.
No other time are these mics supposed to be on. I even remember being told the only time there to be removed from the vehicle is on a traffic stop that's it.
That's exactly how we were trained. So why isn't the department or the FOP making that public and defending us?
WHATEVER the equipment costs, and regardless of how unreliable it may well be, throwing microphones up on the roof of
the station is simply unacceptable. Yet another thing for the public to beat us up with. So much for being law enforcement professionals.
Jeez, I wish this f*ckin' guy would give me a break! Every day with the rot gut whiskey and piss swill beer. And he blames all his troubles on you dumb beat car working blue shirts. If only you guys and girls just did what he said and kept up with the stop-and-frisks, er, contact cards, he wouldn't have lost his job and gone on an epic binge. Don't know if I'm going to last through this one.
Now with New Years coming up... wish me luck!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?"
We are in a Department that is still using Windows XP. In about 50 years we will all have smartphones issued by the department. I saw a 10 inch floppy drive unit in a storage closet. CPD does not like change.
Whoever said cops are innocent until proven guilty? Everybody knows that in today's world, all cops are guilty until proven innocent. Just ask the BLM assholes.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
The department has always been 10 years behind in the area of technology .
It is a non issue. wear it in rain? wear it in below zero temps covered in snow?
wear it on 100 plus sunny day at summer mobile?
You sign for it it works when it breaks take it back and down yourself. Have a nice To -From saved on that fancy Ipad you watch movies on.
The City want to throw you under the bus because RAHMs clan took donations from the the lowest bidders. Your laziness for not documenting thing will get you fired or maybe suspended for a few days. Just like all those crack investigator looking at RAHM sons report half ass TO -FROM get you some well deserved time off!
You supervisor orders you to lock someone up and you did not see it??? write the paper and quit being a beat off. The white shirt will be going to court!
Can't sugarcoat this one, SCC...Officers tossing their mikes up on the roof of 016? Those officers should be fired. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more than a few of them find their punishment being decided at the Police Board. And so it goes, as we continually shoot ourselves in both feet. Outrageous.
Officers? Did the roll call line up and all toss them on the roof like a big salute? All that is known is that they were found on the roof, probably one person doing it repeatedly over time. Fired?? pfffshhhh
I don't particularly agree with the audio part. What other job requires it? What guarantee is there that it is not recording every second? That wasn't a requirement or agreement when I took the job. Other professions are not recorded all the time. If the vehicle is our so called mobile office and we are going to be outfitted with body cameras I think all politicians should be required to do the same, every second that they are engaged in the course of their duties. Then I would like to see all teachers outfitted with cameras also. I'd like to hear what's going on not only in the active classrooms but also what's happening on the days they are working but students have the day off, which seems to be quite a lot. The Big Brother that is watching and listening is far more corrupt than the players. All of these fools that are screaming for cameras, audio and transparency don't contribute to the tax payer base like I do. Once again...the shits that do not make a contribution but live off my money are the ones who keep demanding more. The police department is like a political football being thrown all around the field. The people are watching the ball not paying attention to the players and what their agenda is. Just keep the ball in play. Feds should really by pass the department and head straight into City Hall. That's where the movers and shakers are. Now that would be an interesting dig.
The equipment is cheap junk. The transistor radio I soldered together in boy scouts was more reliable than the coban crap we were given.
The Training is Bullshit The Academy Does anyone there d a full 8 hrs?
Instruction is just crap war stories by those that haven't been on the street in a long long time Oh yea so you do some Summer details and recruit crap Academy isn't a homestead Clean House get qualified instructors
City has a habit of buying obsolete, cheap and used equipment. Bought BADGER computers for the cars 20 years ago and the company goes out of business within a year and computers were breaking down within a year. The lockup was suppose to have finger print machine to be able to clear a person within an hour but city never bought the second piece so its numerous hours before one is cleared. A used helicopter.911 center was a total cluster fu&k cause city didn t follow what ORICOLE told them to do. Were mixing fiberobtics with coaxed. the list goes on. How come we can t get a picture when we run someone in the car. LAPD has had this for the past 20 years. But we can afford to of the line planters and fences.
With the average time on the job of an officer assigned to 016, I'd imagine that it could be any one of them that spouts off with the all too often heard line "too much college, not enough high school kid." I think I fit somewhere in-between the old-timers and the millennials, but both sides better wake up to the reality of what's going on. The new kids need to realize what type of policing is going to be accepted in today's climate, and the old guard better realize that sabotaging equipment is a thing of the past. The city is going to lock you up if they think they can make an example out of you. Could you imagine telling your wife, "I just took 30 days for throwing a microphone receiver on the roof of 016." How stupid does that sound?
I was in FC when we had GPS installed--it was so disorganized, and these techs were like from the hills of KY, I was thinking, WTF? Ain't no chance of this shit actually working. They did the installation in the parking lot. Seriously? That's how a big city works? And then of course, 2 weeks down the road the GPS didn't work at all.
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
12/20/2015 11:28:00 AM
Slow down Steve Jobs. I know you are probably developing such an app in your basement now so you can sell it to the City of Chicago. You have to remember one thing, the city usually buys the cheapest crap on the market which will inevitably break down and not get repaired and two in order for that app to work the city would have to purchase cell phone for us and that is not going to happen.
All our equipment is bad. Breaks, runs slow, unreliable, and takes many weeks-months to fix. Vehicles have loose wires all over, holes in floor, bad fumes etc. etc. Hell, The copy machine in my unit has had a repair request in for nearly 6 months. Still broke! Our range is a joke so forget training. Call to practice or qualify and they tell you "too busy!" Go by the range 3-4 hours into their tours and the door is locked and lights are off. I'm sure everyone has experienced that one. Everyone works half tours except the guys that have it the hardest, are asked to do the most, and are subject to ALL the dangers and BS. The lowly beat cops. We are toast! Very poorly run.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
An upside to being a school officer in a shit hole district:
We always get the absolute worst vehicles. Which 9 outta 10 times means the cameras aint workin, if there's one at all.
They also tend to give us the cars with no cage.
So, no camera to help jam you up. Can't do transports because, no cage.
And you guys thought it was weekends off that keep us there.
12/20/2015 08:50:00 AM
================================
I don't give a shit WHAT keeps you there, as long as it keeps you there, not me!
In my district they couldn't find a Sgt to take the schools, so they imported a lesser seniority Sgt who took it just to get days.
Nothings worth dealing with the jagoff students & administration!!
OK. When the hell is FOP or somebody going to mention that the training for these cameras specifically stated that the microphone was to be turned off except for IVC TRAFFIC STOPS ONLY??!!!
If you are going to get hammered for it, time to hammer back. Down the car if the equipment is not working. Make the bosses document the car is not 100%.
12/20/2015 03:36:00 AM
You can't down a car for a camera or mic not working, you dumbfuck. If you want to down a car, there are sure to be several other issues you could use. The "bosses" have to document those problems every shift already. What exactly do you hope to gain by "making the bosses document" what is already being documented? You think you're "sticking it to the man" by making them write a little notation that your camera doesn't work? I thought most people would rather not have working cams and mics. Why down a car that has the setup you prefer?
Just blame the cheap radios, cameras, mics, etc to a few people, lets start with Jonathan Lewin, next his former assistant Capt. Marty Ryzcak, and Marv Shear. They buy cheap stuff period just to look good with the budget, They bought radios back in about 2011 with out MICS, they didn't want to spend the extra 54.00 per Mic, they wanted to fit the new radios with old mics. Never purchased an extended warranty on them also. Don't believe me ask any radio tech that ever worked for them. They would have new equipment sitting in storage and would have the troops go without, they should be fired. This city has been so political for so many years that nobody can do the right thing, and when any boss would stick up for the men, they were labeled troublemakers. Same thing with the PDTs and Rifle racks, They need a complete revamp of Admin services. Give the troops the tools they need.
why should the coppers in 16 worry about mics and cameras, they don't get out of their cars except for coffee and lunch, and to destroy the Mics is stupid, they need to spend some time in the penalty box for being DUMB in todays climate.
While I haven't read the order since it first came out, it originally stated that audio will only be engaged for traffic stops. Has that changed?
12/20/2015 06:08:00 AM
It was originally only to be used for IVC stops. It has changed and expanded to include a whole variety of different things. Read the updated order before they jam you up for not following it. Here's the relevant part of the order:
"RECORDING GUIDELINES
A.Department members will use only Department-issued video and audio recording equipment.
B.Department members will conform to all laws and Department policies concerning the use of the in-car video system for the video and audio recording of incidents.
1.Department members are lawfully permitted to video record individuals without their consent if they are on the public way or in public view.
2.Department members who are in uniform and have identified their office are lawfully permitted to simultaneously audibly and visually record individuals without their consent whenever:
a.the member is conducting an enforcement stop, or
b.the patrol vehicle emergency lights are activated or would otherwise be activated if not for the need to conceal the presence of law enforcement.
NOTE:
Any reports completed for an audibly recorded incident, including Traffic Stop Statistical Study - Driver Information Cards (CPD-21.103), Traffic Stop Statistical Study Stickers (CPD-15.516), and Personal Service Citations, must include the initial violation or investigatory need that led to the stop.
NOTE:
Department members may audibly record an enforcement stop regardless of the subsequent enforcement action taken.
3.Department members may audibly and visually record an individual with the consent of the individual.
C.Uniformed Department members assigned to vehicles equipped with in-car video systems will activate the system to simultaneously audibly and visually record the entire incident for all enforcement stops.
D.Uniformed Department members assigned to vehicles equipped with in-car video systems will activate the system to visually record the entire incident for all:
1.arrests and transports.
2.nonpursuit emergency vehicle operations.
3.any situation that the member, through training and experience, believes to serve a proper police purpose.
E.During the recording of an incident, Department members will not disengage the in-car video system until the entire incident has been recorded."
And don't stop recording audio or video without being able to justify it, or you'll get jammed up for that too.
If you are not doing anything wrong then having the camera and mic on shouldn't be a issue. Unless you don't feel confident in your judgement or training. I always used the ICC and never felt uneasy about it. Its when unknown officers did everything to thwart it and I have addressed the issue with many supervisors. They just blew it off. Well shit has his the fan now and really it's a little too late.
If local media were interested in due diligence
instead of fanning the "Hate The Police" flames,
They would know by reading the In-Car Camera Order
that the mics would only be activated during an IVC stop...
"Those cops are just trying to get away with something!"
Local media are far from the best and the brightest.
The least of coppers on the worst of days can run rings
around these self-interested, agendist, yellow-pinky media dolts.
Period.
Full Stop.
484 on Christmas week, let's go Chicago, only 16 to go.
How about the media reporting some real news instead creating controversy that doesn't exist and it's only purpose is fanning the flames of the devil while we try to do God's work. How did the fanning of the flames work out in ferguson, oh yeah they burnt that bitch down with impunity. Police don't wake up in the morning saying it's a good day to kill someone but if and when when the devil comes calling they do not back down from the devil. Recognize, obey and conform to the civilized laws of society, obey lawful police orders, stay away from legal and illegal mind altering substances that inhibit your brain from controlling your actions and you will never be harmed by the police. The only reason the police are viewed as the enemy is because the media and the politicians embrace the devil is to sell their tabloid news and to curry favor with at elections respectively.
My opinion is if the gear is that bad down the cars. It is simply CYA and if they run short on working gear then they have to fix it or forego the mics.
Not sure how it will all shake out. But aren't the statements the cops gave administrative in nature. ? If at any time they were thought to be criminal. Doesn't the administrative part stop. And criminal rights given? Did that happen in this case ?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
12/20/2015 11:28:00 AM
Dude, that's rich.
This Cheap ass department is 20 years behind the times. Parts of the city don't have quality radio communications,
the terminals in the cars, if there is one, often don't work or don't connect to the system. The computers in our unit
are mostly running windows xp.
Oh boy watch out 016! The tiny inspector RP will be coming for you now. Better have your heads on a swivel.
Wow, so many people still think video/audio is only used for ilcs traffic violations. It changed to all enforcement stops awhile ago...maybe you guys should stay up to date on your orders
OK. When the hell is FOP or somebody going to mention that the training for these cameras specifically stated that the microphone was to be turned off except for IVC TRAFFIC STOPS ONLY??!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The latest order changing that came out in 2012.
Almost 4 years ago.
Read the damn orders.
Watch and pay attention to the NEW training video that we ALL had to watch.
YOU make over $80,000 a year.
Earn it or go get a job at Wal-Mart for $10.00 @ hour.
Thanks for posting my comment regarding your IT struggles. Number one if anyone is running a PC connected to the internet on Windows XP that is a major security risk. The alternative is inexpensive but the man hours to fix it will cost. I can really assist with that and would not need access inside, I can train a few people. Seriously. This is bullshit you guys have to put up with that. Then Linux can be installed on the workstations that just require Web access. Contact me SCC I can assist in this.
484 on Christmas week, let's go Chicago, only 16 to go.
12/20/2015 08:57:00 PM
I GOT THAT YO
Unless this was brought to the sgt's attention, he should have just forgot what he saw. Total shitstorm coming with him caught in the middle. Why not just bring it up at roll calls from there on out? Stupid coppers doing shit like that. I retired 2 years ago with 29 on, and so I guess I'm an old-timer....but the old-timers who TAUGHT me would never have made an amateur mistake like this.
my guess is that these little temper tantrums by police are not going to help the situation any.
the reality is that the voters are ultimately in charge of how policing is done and if they dislike the way it is done enough they will take their dislike out on the politicians and the politicians won't like that at all.
a lot of these things can be fixed by just getting rid of victimless crimes entirely. so someone is drinking a beer on the sidewalk. is it really worth killing him over it? that is what police enforcement ultimately amounts to - the threat that any infraction, regardless of how minor, can escalate into the death of violator.
how we as a society got ourselves into this mess is not important but getting out of it is.
granted a lot of these things probably sounded like a great idea when some do gooder came up with them, but the sum total of what we ended up with has helped to create a toxic environment that needs to be replaced with something less poisonous or we are all going to pay for it big time.
most of these things are going to require legislation to fix and that takes time and political will. I wonder if we have enough of either left.
not a cop
Can the FOP do a Freedom of Information request for ALL department vehicles and their equipment (i.e. tires, engines, PDT's, cameras and mikes) for the past two or three years. When the list is compiled, we have all these people sitting around doing nothing at FOP, they can comb the volume of material and publish their own report. Hey, they can make up Sh!t like reporters (ha!) do and then post their findings.
When the city was installing the GPS in cars the people who were installing them had to do it in the outside. They were not allowed inside of the police buildings because they were NON UNION. THE WIRES WERE NOT SOLDERED and shoddy jnstallation.
Unfortunately - it appears that the directive to use audio only on traffic stops was never explained to the State's Atty & the media. Since our beloved Deano has made some appearances lately - why doesn't Deano, who states that FOP is on board with the pilot program,'explain the audio restriction ? You think tiny dancer is going to clarify that salient point when he holds his next press conference? Does Escalante even realize this since he was in the Detective unit the last few years? Someone needs to make this clear since Carol Marin is still hammering away at the whole tape issue along with the "altered" Burger King tape.
Hey Deano - we joke about Lilliputian Securty but at the rate we're going the only role that you can fill is an elf at Lunch with Santa!
let the trained techs fix the equipment not lances untrained techs
if it was the other way around calls would be made to fop
Remember Officers. Document each and every time that your PDT, CAMERAS , RADIO and Vehicle fail. Get the name of garage attendant that won't give you a replacement vehicle. Notify your Sgt. If he tells you to drive unsafe vehicle, document it. Notify and bug the crap out of FOP. THIS IS YOUR CAREER .
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
Dude, this is Chicago. We have a shitload of computers still running Windows 95.
Oh boy watch out 016! The tiny inspector RP will be coming for you now. Better have your heads on a swivel.
Common! The only fallout from this will be the creation of a new inside spot which will require the P.O. to walk up to the roof and collect the mics that will still be thrown up their.
The fact that most think that you only turn on audio for ivc is another example of this department's complete failure to properly train officers.
I don't give a shit WHAT keeps you there, as long as it keeps you there, not me!
In my district they couldn't find a Sgt to take the schools, so they imported a lesser seniority Sgt who took it just to get days.
Nothings worth dealing with the jagoff students & administration!!
That's basically what happened in my district. No 2nd watch Sgt wanted any part of the schools. So, they offered it to a low seniority Sgt on 1st watch. Naturally, he jumped at the chance to get the fuck off midnites.
The school assignment is only a "bad" one when officers fail to establish what's what.
You have to let the principal know right off, that he/she aint your fuckin boss. That you don't work for he/she or CPS. That he/she doesn't order you to do a muthafuckin thing. That you & partner alone, determine when & if an arrest will be made.
That the police don't do hall monitor and lunchroom monitoring shit. That's what the CPS security staff is for. That your partner & you do only LAW ENFORCEMENT related shit. And you never waiver on any of that.
It helps to have a WC's & Commanders who back you. That is, if the principal calls them, bitching and hinting they want you out, the principal gets told "Fuck Off!" Because we have no one else to assign to your shithole school.
Problem is, guys get in the "really nice" schools. And do the opposite of all I just mentioned, because they don't wanna lose that cheese spot.
When you're at shithole, ghetto school, that no one else wants, you call your own shots, and aint gotta kiss no principal ass.
SCC, the moment you begin offering up excuses for stuff not working you begin playing the game. There's only one acceptable response, and that's, "There is no acceptable excuse." Period. If someone bought sub-standard equipment, that's on them. Likewise if someone fails to maintain it. Same if someone refuses to use it. Only way to have accountability is to quit tolerating excuses.
It's call on Deputy Chief J.L. for purchasing the cheap equipment and failing to provide for maintenance and repair. But hey, blame the coppers for the shit not working.
Fisherprice equipment
Crap equipment, non union scabs installing it what could go wrong? Like ordering $40,000 police vehicles where right at Ford on torrence in Chicago they install all emergency equipment properly, nope we have to have some politically connected shill do the work, like when we had water on floor of explorers and the computer box was "relocated" there and the electrical systems went haywire on brand new vehicles yes that's the best way!We cannot even get batteries for radios that die many times during the tour! Pathetic rahm really pathetic what you do with taxpayers money your own personal piggybank?
My unit went from manual typewriters to computers.
11:50pm....why don't u go back to ur mothers basement and read them for us and report back.
10:46pm...correct! Lol
19 P & B
Everything
While I haven't read the order since it first came out, it originally stated that audio will only be engaged for traffic stops. Has that changed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changed in 2012.
God knows every lawyer has read it on-line.
READ the order:
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57bf0-12dc41eb-af712-dc48-ff1427a411b25de4.pdf?hl=true
12/20/2015 01:42:00 PM
That brings to light another McCarthy/Emmanuel problem: the DSS. Nobody read the new order and explained it at roll calls. Why? You might ask. Well, it's because nobody will be held accountable for it because you now have 6 Sergeants in charge of a Watch, and so, NO ONE is really in charge of the Watch.
In the old day (I can hear the groans) you had a Captain in charge. His only job was to guide the Watch. The Department puts out an Administrative Message that says an order was changed, the Captain read it and explained the changes at a roll call. That doesn't happen now. The under manned Sergeants buzz through it and get out on the street. Does anyone really think the officers are going to run to the computers and pour through the order to figure out the changes?
When was the last gun inspection performed at a roll call? One Sergeant pushes it off to the next. Coming late, leaving early. That's the other Sergeants job, I'm doing this. Don't get me started on the Sergeants trying to get each other to do their jobs correctly. Not going to happen.
We have NO SUPERVISION on the streets. Part of the reason is we don't have enough Sergeants in Patrol. Part of the reason is we have no chain of command any more. ALL of the reason is that Rahm Emmanuel and Garry McCarthy have mismanaged this Department. It ALL falls to them.
It's a mess. Maybe the next guy can fix it.
Remember Officers. Document each and every time that your PDT, CAMERAS , RADIO and Vehicle fail. Get the name of garage attendant that won't give you a replacement vehicle. Notify your Sgt. If he tells you to drive unsafe vehicle, document it. Notify and bug the crap out of FOP. THIS IS YOUR CAREER .
12/21/2015 08:15:00 AM
Cameras and PDTs aren't a safety issue. You can't down a vehicle for those, because they aren't issues with the vehicle. You sound like a child, or at least a complete moron. Not having a working PDT or camera doesn't mean you're driving an unsafe vehicle. If there's an actual safety issue, you can down the car. I've done it plenty of times. If there's a pool car available, that's great. If not, you don't get a car, but you can still down the unsafe vehicle. Literally nothing you posted makes any sense, and "documenting" your own stupidity won't have any effect. The FOP doesn't give a shit if your camera has a ticket number, and they shouldn't. If you have an actual unsafe vehicle, and your Sgt tells you to drive it anyway, you "document it" by downing the fucking car for being unsafe. Your Sgt isn't your mommy, so learn to make your own decisions, especially when it comes to your safety. Grow up, quit whining, use your brain, and stop advising others what to do when you have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
Unfortunately - it appears that the directive to use audio only on traffic stops was never explained to the State's Atty & the media. Since our beloved Deano has made some appearances lately - why doesn't Deano, who states that FOP is on board with the pilot program,'explain the audio restriction ? You think tiny dancer is going to clarify that salient point when he holds his next press conference? Does Escalante even realize this since he was in the Detective unit the last few years? Someone needs to make this clear since Carol Marin is still hammering away at the whole tape issue along with the "altered" Burger King tape.
Hey Deano - we joke about Lilliputian Securty but at the rate we're going the only role that you can fill is an elf at Lunch with Santa!
12/21/2015 08:13:00 AM
It's usually a good idea to know what you're talking about before ranting about others. Read the order and educate yourself. The orders aren't written in stone, and many of them have changed under Garry's reign. It would be wise if the department alerted the members to major changes in orders that relate to everyday activities, but we all know they don't. It's up to you to keep up to date on the orders. They're all available for you or anyone else to read from any computer or smartphone.
Not a cop
It's been a while since you've made a stupid comment. I presumed you were put back on your meds.
Please let me know what your address is, you supply the beer and I'll supply the bustouts.
And of course you've thought all this out because you'll also have to supply the following:
1. the bathrooms, unless your front lawn or garage door will do
2. the security, unless the fights between the drunks is entertaining to you
3. the ambulances, unless you are a medic and prepared to triage them in your house
4. the clean up crew, unless you plan on doing it yourself
5. the earplugs, for you and your very happy neighbors
Every law is on the books for good reason. Enforcement is left to the discretion of the public who chooses to complain about it and the officers who interact with the offenders. Generally if the offender is polite and respectful he might be given a pass, but when he acts like an asshole it is our duty not to back down. See that is a basic tenet of authority. If some asshole decides to fight because he feels he is above the law then anything that happens to him while legally doing our duty is on him.
God I hope you are not a parent. I can only imagine what your kids are like...
Time for bed little Johnny!
Go fuck yourself dad!
Ok, I guess its just bedtime....which ends up being the same response when dealing with junior's fights with other kids, bad grades, cigarettes, drugs, theft etc etc etc culminating in calling the police when you are afraid of junior and then getting upset when he fights with us and we have to take legal action to arrest him.
How can you expect the police to get people to comply when they commit large infractions when you suggest we don't even engage the public on the lesser laws? Who decides what the cutoff is? Everything under homicide? If you stuck yourself with a disposed dirty syringe would you still think drugs are a victim less crime? When a hype breaks into your car to trade your radio for drugs is that victim less? When the drunk outside your house accosts your wife as she returns home is drinking a beer in public still a victim less crime?
You are no longer to use the moniker "Not a cop"
Your new Delta Kao name is.....
Flounder
Not a cop but I work in IT, so my question is this is 2015 could there be one device that does your reportings and your engagements with the public versus paper and pens? A smartphone app b chance?
We still have computer with Windows 98. Our web based internal website do not work with but the oldest versions of Internet Explorer. That's a fact! IF you can find a working computer with a real internet connection.
As for competent IT help.
Ask yourself why Detectives and HQ people are bringing in their own lap tops to do work on?
I have done it for 5 years. WHY because you cannot trust the CPD intranet or storage.
When you do a major investigation once and documents start to disappear you learn.
The bosses do not care they are not responsible. YOU ARE.
Cannot wait to leave in 5 years
Anonymous said...
my guess is that these little temper tantrums by police are not going to help the situation any.
the reality is that the voters are ultimately in charge of how policing is done and if they dislike the way it is done enough they will take their dislike out on the politicians and the politicians won't like that at all.
a lot of these things can be fixed by just getting rid of victimless crimes entirely. so someone is drinking a beer on the sidewalk. is it really worth killing him over it? that is what police enforcement ultimately amounts to - the threat that any infraction, regardless of how minor, can escalate into the death of violator.
how we as a society got ourselves into this mess is not important but getting out of it is.
granted a lot of these things probably sounded like a great idea when some do gooder came up with them, but the sum total of what we ended up with has helped to create a toxic environment that needs to be replaced with something less poisonous or we are all going to pay for it big time.
most of these things are going to require legislation to fix and that takes time and political will. I wonder if we have enough of either left.
not a cop
12/21/2015 07:06:00 AM
Some of the worst incidents ending up in deadly force and ultimately lawsuits originated with minor incidents and disorderly conduct type incidents such as you've described above. The minor incidents have a tendency to turn to shit very rapidly. Usually the violator is drunk, high, or mentally disturbed and the incident spirals out of control escalating in nature and necessitating the need sometimes for deadly force when weapons are used to defeat the LAWFUL arrest. So is the answer to ignore these minor violations? Ex-mayor of New York Giuliani, responsible for a 56-65% in crime in that city, used what is called the Broken Windows theory in policing, which essentially states that if smaller crimes are ignored, more and more crime occurs over time. So think about that next time you question the police "hassling some poor citizen for no good reason."
And FYI, since arrests have been down in New York due to "de-policing", the crime rate has skyrocketed. Baltimore, too. Fact....
Good point. The age of "officer discretion' is over. You get stopped for traffic, you get the ticket. One small bag of weed that would have gone down the sewer, sorry, jail. Is that a can of beer on the public way? Ticket. You want to give me information on the next guy up the chain, sorry, no deals.
It's all on tape. There are no breaks. I am not losing my livelihood, my families future, for being decent to you. I can't. So who gets hurt? Joe Six Pack does. Who will benefit? The unscrupulous lawyers and the worst of the worst.
Congratulations to all of you regular Joes that pushed for this oversight. You worried so much about how well CRIMINALS were treated, you inadvertently shot yourself in the foot. I am not wagging my finger, I am just explaining how things are now.
12/20/2015 12:19:00 PM
Keep in mind, the Average Joes and Janes in this city actually support LEO's.
Its the Mouth breathing Libitards from both parties that are the problem. Republican and Democrat alike...the morons are on both sides. Orwell was right....but damn it people...it isn't supposed to a how do instructional booklet.
you have to admit that all the video and audio that comes up missing on an almost routine basis in these kind of cases has to look suspicious at the very least.
not a cop
Murphy's Rules of Combat:
Your equipment was made by the lowest bidder.
(or in the case of shitcago,the most politically connected one).
not a cop....
Your name is Flounder
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