Name the "Experts"
- The agency concluded that a “reasonable officer” would not have believed he was in danger of death or serious injury.
This must have been an interesting conclusion because as far as we know, every single retired Police Officer who interviewed for COPA was denied out of hand. There are no officers at COPA, retired or otherwise. That might just tilt/shade/skew and investigation, don't you think?
But maybe we're mistaken and some retired officer managed to sneak through without any fanfare. In that case, identify the officer, his/her agency, his/her career assignments, and his/her resume so that everyone can see if they have any "reasonable officer" standing as determined by the United States Supreme Court.
FOP, you should be demanding this. PBPA, you should be backing the FOP on this one - they're stripping sergeants for signing paperwork.
But maybe we're mistaken and some retired officer managed to sneak through without any fanfare. In that case, identify the officer, his/her agency, his/her career assignments, and his/her resume so that everyone can see if they have any "reasonable officer" standing as determined by the United States Supreme Court.
FOP, you should be demanding this. PBPA, you should be backing the FOP on this one - they're stripping sergeants for signing paperwork.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
62 Comments:
They have some former LEO's.
One guy identified himself as a former Suffolk county officer last time I was there. Seemed to be the only one who had any idea what Police work entailed. This was several months ago, right before the IPRA to COPA shift was made. I was pretty certain that most of the same investigators were being held over.
But maybe we're mistaken and some retired officer managed to sneak through without any fanfare.
12/30/2017 12:05:00 AM
Not a one. The 5 years retired rule for former sworn was all bullshit. Anyone meeting the requirement was 86'd in the interview portion.
play the game
I was talking with my grandmother who read the article— she was talking about during her day people had respect for the police because no one wanted the job. Plus if you mouth off to the police.. you got tuned up, and if you thought you had balls that were grape fruit you got a trip to the morgue. She is 90 years old... and she told me herself, back in the day... half the assholes today would had been buried.
Chief Investigator Josh Hunt is former L.E. not CPD though.
Its about passing Lawsuits to your friends,,,Its Rotten,,,,
francis tighe is a former police officer (not retired just did it for a few years) and he's a real know it all. watch out for him. he's a copa investigator.
Maybe this prick!!:
JOSHUA HUNT, CHIEF INVESTIGATOR
Deputy Chief Hunt is a former Homicide Detective and previously worked as a Sergeant in the Special Victims Unit of the Savannah Chatham Metro Police Department. He also has previous assignments to several state and federal Violent Crime Task Forces. His 13 years of investigative experience, specializing primarily in violent crime and use of force investigations, includes extensive experience in both complex criminal and administrative investigations. Hunt received his bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice from Armstrong Atlantic State University.
Is Tommy Dart writing a book? Any truth to the
rumor that the boys will come together, right now,
and jack the book?
Not only did COPA try to keep out any retired CPD, it seems like any law enforcement experience was held against the applicant. I talked to a former CPD, retired Fed agent who had been assigned to the largest US cities and internationally. He had applied for COPA thinking that it may actually be legit. Never received a call back or any acknowledgment from COPA that they even considered his application. He now knows how lucky he was. It is obviously just another tool of the Dem machine to pander to their base and continue their Dem led attack on police. As per their orders from their Dem bosses, the media lap dogs will continue to make it seem like a legitimate impartial agency though.
If I'm not mistaken there is at least one retired police office at COPA, but he isn't from Chicago. My understanding is that hails from, get this, Detroit!!!! God help us!!!!
COPA has failed and we’re all effected by this case.
Janet Cooksley said” Each December it’s like the womb has opened again.” Ahhh where were you the past fifteen Decembers when he was being raised by a foster mother?
They are not interested in reasonable. Their mantra is WDRW.
What Does Rahm Want?
After retiring in July, 2017 I sent a resume to COPA seeking employment. Within two weeks, city counsel passed an ordinance prohibiting a retired Chicago Police Officer for five years from being hired at COPA. To the best of my knowledge, COPA has no intention of having experienced street logic play any part in a fair decision.
The whole organization is a political scam to please and serve the non-tax payers, the revs, the criminal(s), the politicians and of course the defense lawyers who suck every dime from the tax payers like you and me knowing full well of the guilt they represent.
I think that ANY REASONABLE Officer, would tell COPA to go FUCK THEMSELVES with this BULLSHIT....
They are experts because they say they are, in 2017 your a woman even if you have your penis if you say you are, you know about being held back because your black even if your from Highland Park. I'm an Irish Setter so now I'm gonna go out and chase squirrels.
This was in the COPA article Thursday:
The agency concluded that a “reasonable officer” would not have believed he was in danger of death or serious injury.
This is the exact opposite of reality.
Offender advancing with a bat, officer is supposed to back off, while backing away the officer trips and falls. Is Officer allowed to shoot or must Officer take a bat to the head? Please all knowing COPA tell us what to do. ♠️
Read and research the bio' of COPA' chief'. All West and East coast social workers.
They will not hire any retired cops unless you have been gone 5 years but I bet they are only looking for some IAD guys and not street cops who can tilt in favor of the accused. I wouldn't last a tour.they are making these decisions on their liberal feelings towards the police. They are not making their findings on investigative findings. And just what experience do they really have. They are only Trying to justify their existence.
You mean the are stripping merit Sergeants oh the shame of it. You should be happy, now if they move up the ladder things could get better.
I was told by a reliable source that they will absolutely not hire retired CPD, but they are hiring retired LEOs from other agencies.
A complaint should be made to the federal attorney general (the state attorney general is bought and paid for and conflicted due to the consent decree suit) alleging that COPA is not an independent investigative agency as required by the state law. This law was passed to ensure that no political influence went into the investigative outcome, which clearly has occurred here. To call COPA independent while still being under control of Rahm is a complete joke.
there are no former CPD at COPA. There was one that I knew pretty well, a retired deputy chief and he was axed and is now at another city agency. He told me no former CPD survived. I don't know if there are any other police agencies represented. And, I believe the racial make-up is mostly minority which makes them a majority now.
Just what is definition of a reasonable officer? Put in print so everyone understands what is reasonable under your convoluted reasoning. Dare you to put on print. Thought so, you aren't able to define reasonable either other than long after the fact you have had time to reflect. So require the officer to make report without that same tome for reflection. If your a ball game and foul ball coming at your Childs head what do you do. Ask for help, think about stopping ball or do you react without Amy thought at all and block ball. Then you sit back with your heart going a million beats per minute and thank God you were at right place at right time. Any delay for thought would have put child in hospital. You simply did what your parental training told you to do and that was protect child at all costs. If did not directly witness any shooting how are you in any position to judge anything. If evidence taken at time of shooting declares a good shooting how are you in any position to overrule that decision. You and your COPA tools are just a bunch is social justice warriors bent on destroying society. Please STFU and crawl back into whatever hole they found you in. In the end you will lose mark my words.
Just curious why stop at shooter? Why not go after everyone who declared it to be a good shooting. Bring the SGt's, Lt's, Cpt'c and Commanders into investigation. Strip them and fire them and charge them, if officer is guilty so are they since they all conspired on good shoot findings. Anyone in management who signs off on anything at all is a fool. Just pass the paperwork up the ladder, if they force you tossing note that signature was obtained under duress.
As Rahm brings in more democratic sanctuary voters, who happen to be killing people with assault rifles, you have to put your attention elsewhere.
Law is not supposed to have a subjective element.
Either one is adhering to the law, or one is not.
RIGHTS were enumerated to keep REMOVED from the hands of government those things that ARE subjective.
"reasonable" was used as a means to infiltrate and destroy this attempt to differentiate what authority rests where.
Self defense, which even COPS HAVE A RIGHT TO, isn't and can't be usurped by another. No, that isn't a 4th amendment issue and it never actually was.
So NO - REASONABLE has NO MERIT in this arena.
Rights aren't open to the democratic VOTE. The COP freaks can cry "unreasonable" all thy want to, and so can their democrat handlers, but "REASONABLE" isn't the test. Exercise of Privilege and Immunity is.
Cops want that applied to you? Great! That is right and proper.
Let me know when you are down for it being applied to EVERYONE and then it CAN be applied to you too. You know, so we can END this COPA CRAP from one direction and Gun Control CRAP from the other.
Oh,you mean you didn't realize that COPA is just democrat gun control tuned on you coppers?
Really? Well guess what, that is EXACTLY what is slipping out as the "REASONABLE" argument is waged against YOU this time. See, the dem controllers LOST their precious "reasonable" test with everyone else, so they are trying to regain it - at least with cops- by using COPA. The only way they can do that is to make sure no cops screw it up by a cop BEING COPA.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cedrick-chatman-ipra-met-20151224-story.html
Josh Hunt back in 2013 IPRA
Armstrong Atlantic State University????? ♠️
Exactly what authority do they have.
There’s only one way to avoid the COPRA, which is not going away or be restructured and it doesn’t need to be explained.
Stacked deck of hand selected “experts” of similar bias to come to a predetermined conclusion.
The entire COPA is a slapped together rag tag sham political extension of the Rahm 2019 campaign, comprised of folks that they are definitely Anti-Police Restorative Justice activists.
I don’t think the majority of law abiding taxpayers are interested, since it’s unlikely they encounter the police with combative attitudes.
Rahm will likely be expanding the COPRA budget, office administration and reach.
His community appeal isn’t doing too well and he has to find something to satisfy the angry.
He’s not that stupid to believe PrickWanker and KimmJongFxxx are on his side.
When he goes down, he is going to take the CPD with him.
As for FOP, let’s hope there’s absolutely no consideration of any more Contract changes to the Disciplinary rules as was allowed in previous Contracts.
Beware of any enlistment of a LEO to the COPRA, if it were to happen, it will be reserved for a biased Jugghead Special Ed type or similar. The qualifications for such a position is the ability to do Rahm’s dirty work and determined how one answers the questions about law and order vs. current community sentiment.
Hence, how did Jugghead Special Ed get the top spot?
On the radio, Jugghead was at the podium again, affirming his beliefs that The Police are still NOT respecting the Community?
He also saying he believes God put him here do make Changes for the good of the community. Mentioning how he never applied for superintendent but was selected by happenstance....mmmm-hmmmm.
Oh, he used The Book of Job as his inspiration.
It’s Revrun Jugghead now, and in theology, a sudden infusion of faith usually means check off.
I couldn't care less what is on someone's resume. If they say that a "reasonable officer" would not be in fear of their life in this case then they don't know shit, or are spewing lies for political purposes.
4:55am is correct. There's a retired Detroit officer who works for COPA. He told some "war stories", off the record of course. Former civilian lock up keeper who pretends he is a nice guy, again only off the record. When both are on the record they are just pushing the COPA "F da police" agenda. Don't be fooled. Civilian actually offered to by me a drink if I ever saw him out. Yeah ok, right to callback I'll go if I accept.
Former LEO or not makes no difference as many LEOs are not very knowledgeable about use of force or training. Investigator’s credentials should be available for the public to view. Many “experts” are only that in their own minds.
Maybe Eugene Vann? Sounds like his quote!!
Retired Lt from 015.
I too sent in a resume in response to a COPA advertisement; I am a college grad, had headed up some investigative teams during my almost 30 years with the CPD and had attained some rank within the Dept.
I was also never called or approached about a job with COPA, so it was obvious to me that they really weren't seeking any experienced former or retired officers for positions there.
Eventually there will be 15 COPA supervising investigators. Currently there are 12, with 3 of the 12 being IPRA holdovers. One of the three holdovers has the most seniority and makes $120K a year. She's useless and should be making $25K a year. The last 3 of the 15 are currently being trained. No person was hired without an "unofficial" recommendation from the demoCRAPic party.
When you go through a COPA interview the actions of the offender are never questioned. Only yours. It's like offender was never there.
Time to have the fbi investigate police shootings. Fly them in from west coast. No local people at all. IG handles rest of complaints. Disband copa completely. Cheaper and no politics involved.
I so wish that FOP would just tell the rank and file to stand down and not work until this is clarified. We're going to work not knowing the rules and what if an offender attacks us with a bat or any other blunt weapon. what do we do? The blue shirts are in danger of losing everything we've worked hard for. Our home, possessions and even our freedom because COPA and the City wont tell us the rules. Stay safe and stand down if you can. We're in dangerous times boys and girls. Beware if you see any light at the end of the tunnel. It just might be little Rahm driving a train. __@__
HEY COPA! EVER HEARD OF THE INTERNET AND GOOGLE? DO SOME BASIC RESEARCH YOU IMBECILES:
During testimony, “experts” often cite that spent cartridge case ejection locations
from a semi-automatic firearm indicate the location of the shooter based on the
assumption that most spent cartridge cases land to the right and rear of the
shooter. The authors of this study investigated whether spent cartridge case
ejection locations are an accurate indicator of a shooter’s location. Eight different
semi-automatic weapons most frequently used by police officers were used to
collect data from eleven different shooting positions. The results highlighted the
significant inconsistency of the spent cartridge case ejection locations that
occurred across test positions even when several factors including firearm type,
firearm position, and ammunition were accounted for. Of 7,670 bullets fired, over
25 percent of the spent cartridge casings landed somewhere other than to the right
and rear of the shooter where it is commonly accepted they should land. That
pattern inconsistency is significant and demonstrates that determining shooter
location from the spent cartridge case alone leads to only a tentative estimate of
the shooter’s location.
One Officer is on the board. Was the Mayberry P.D. meter maid. She moved to Chicago, was hired, made a Lt. and never worked the streets again. Retired two years ago.
J.J.
Law enforcement experience helps but it also depends. How many police officers, detectives and supervisors have you seen on this job who are complete morons? Who have never been the police? Who have no sense whatsoever let alone common.
To properly investigate a police shooting incident one must understand and take into account forensic science, physics, psychology, human performance, weapons performance, human nature, the law, proper interviewing procedure and a myriad of other issues. These days it takes a team of experts or at least people with a decent understanding of it all.
I have zero confidence in COPA. Not only do they not have an understanding of police use of force but I doubt they even care to understand it or learn. It's a steep learning curve and not every person is cut out for it. Especially if you are clouded by anti police bias as COPA seems to be.
What do I know? I'm just a Dick.
I would expect that if you are fluent in Kangaroo legalese, you will have no problem getting hired at COPA.
COPA is a political, pro-BLM, anti-law and order witch hunt. Probably all majored in lesbian poetry at some liberal arts college.
Anonymous said...
Armstrong Atlantic State University????? ♠️
12/30/2017 11:02:00 AM
Who says degrees from diploma mills don’t pay off? Now I know I have a shot at a post retirement 6-figure gig with my degree from calumet city college, masters from jerry lewis, and mba from javier university.
I so wish that FOP would just tell the rank and file to stand down and not work until this is clarified.
What a SUPER BAD IDEA!!!!!
That would be considered a strike call, which is prohibited by the contract and state law. Could be grounds for union decertifation and voiding contract.
So how many children have been violently killed on Chicago’s streets since Rham became mayor? Copa will not end violence on the streets. Rham is wasting his time and Chicago lives. How sad!
COPA "supervising investigator" Mark Clark's profile includes a quote from 'political activist',Communist Party USA leader and Black Panther Party associate Angel Davis. Davis was charged in the 1970 armed takeover of a Marin Co., CA courthouse in which a judge was killed and a prosecutor and juror were wounded.Davis had purchased the firearms used in the take-over, and was acquitted by a jury.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I so wish that FOP would just tell the rank and file to stand down and not work until this is clarified. We're going to work not knowing the rules and what if an offender attacks us with a bat or any other blunt weapon. what do we do? The blue shirts are in danger of losing everything we've worked hard for. Our home, possessions and even our freedom because COPA and the City wont tell us the rules. Stay safe and stand down if you can. We're in dangerous times boys and girls. Beware if you see any light at the end of the tunnel. It just might be little Rahm driving a train. __@__
12/30/2017 04:03:00 PM
Your a big boy or a big girl. Why do you need FOP to tell you anything. Do what YOU feel you have to do. FOP can’t tell you what to do and if they did it wouldn’t mean anyrhing
ever stop to think how much income a mope
can make (while also receiving welfare benefits)?
The City has said enough to the 200 million dollar payouts for the continual stupid shit. The word is out get in line or get ready to do some time whether it’s a suspension or the Penitentiary they couldn’t care either way.
Can you have your attorney present during the interview with COPA?
Just another Democratic agency to add to my Fuck You list along with special ED and Rahm and the Democratic machine that has put Chicago and the State in to bankruptcy.
The City has said enough to the 200 million dollar payouts for the continual stupid shit. The word is out get in line or get ready to do some time whether it’s a suspension or the Penitentiary they couldn’t care either way.
12/30/2017 11:11:00 PM
Here's the DUMBEST SHIT EVER SPOKEN:
The mayor RE is to blame for this after coming out and stating that There is code of silence......the city has been settling lawsuit after lawsuit because of the statement.
Time to have the fbi investigate police shootings. Fly them in from west coast. No local people at all. IG handles rest of complaints. Disband copa completely. Cheaper and no politics involved.
12/30/2017 03:54:00 PM
Although your shit is sprinkled generously throughout your little post, that last sentence really exploded, like a starburst, only made of shit.
.....no politics involved........fucking priceless.......
Exactly what authority do they have.
12/30/2017 11:26:00 AM
The authority of duplicity......
Does Richard Wooten work for COPA?
Anonymous said...
This was in the COPA article Thursday:
The agency concluded that a “reasonable officer” would not have believed he was in danger of death or serious injury.
This is the exact opposite of reality.
12/30/2017 07:18:00 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Court stated that, “The reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.”
The objective test requires the court to envision a reasonable officer and ask this question: Based on the totality of the facts and circumstances, could such an officer believe that the force was reasonable?
Since the objective test judges the officer through the lens of a reasonable officer, the subjective beliefs of the actual officer – whether they are good, or bad – are not relevant.
Facts make force reasonable. The objective reasonableness test requires officers to rely on their senses – or what they saw, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched.
The Supreme Court stated that , “The test for reasonableness under the Fourth Amendment is not capable of precise definition or mechanical application.”
Allowance must be made for the fact that “…police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments – in circumstances that are tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving – about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation.”
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I so wish that FOP would just tell the rank and file to stand down and not work until this is clarified. We're going to work not knowing the rules and what if an offender attacks us with a bat or any other blunt weapon. what do we do? The blue shirts are in danger of losing everything we've worked hard for. Our home, possessions and even our freedom because COPA and the City wont tell us the rules. Stay safe and stand down if you can. We're in dangerous times boys and girls. Beware if you see any light at the end of the tunnel. It just might be little Rahm driving a train. __@__
12/30/2017 04:03:00 PM
You're like that guy on the TV commercial who calls his mommy when he gets a flat tire.
Yeesh!
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