Cleveland - A Rough Town
Someone wrote to us with something that appeared on social media - it has to be a joke. We mean, it sounds like a joke - something made up. We certainly hope it's BS:
- Future of CPD....I heard the mommy of a recruit came to the academy and spoke with a supervisor to complain that her son was sore after a "welcome to the gym day" and they need to tone it down on the physical stuff......anyone with inside academy knowledge confirm?
It has all the hallmarks of a joke and a few elements we've seen in other supposed, "It's TRUE!" stories. And with recent "snowflake" stories, it's most likely the culmination of a well-played troll campaign.
This came over in our e-mail a day or two ago and it is so opposite of the above paragraph we have to wonder if they're connected somehow:
This came over in our e-mail a day or two ago and it is so opposite of the above paragraph we have to wonder if they're connected somehow:
- Eight Cleveland police cadets were hurt last month during a hand-to-hand combat training exercise at the Ohio State Highway Patrol's police academy in Columbus, officials said.
Six of the cadets -- four men and two women -- went to a hospital for treatment. One cadet dislocated a shoulder and five cadets suffered concussions, said Cleveland Police Det. Steve Loomis, who was president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association when the incident occurred Dec. 12.
One recruit remained at the hospital because of a previous injury but was released less than a week later. The other five recruits were treated and released, Ohio State Highway Patrol spokesman Lt. Robert Sellers said.
Two other recruits suffered concussions during the training but were not taken to the hospital, Loomis said.
Geez, did Marsh start running the Cleveland Academy? Maybe a few other sadists from years gone by? Marsh would deck recruits in the hallways who weren't sufficiently aware of their surroundings. Frost was an amateur boxer who would rattle teeth given half a chance. There were others but we'll leave them to the comments sure to roll in. Still, you don't want recruits damaged before they hit the street - that will come with the career.
Labels: out-of-state
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
102 Comments:
Make a phone call. duh, its Chicago.
You said Marsh.... now, my right thumb is having flashbacks! šš®
You might not want recruits damaged before they hit the streets, but you don't want 'em to believe they're gonna be able to wave a little white card and the bad guys will yell 'stop play', either. The real world is painful.
Especially for a snowflake.
Frost knocked me on my ass once for talking back. Never did that again, I only needed one reminder. And who could forget Gus, God rest his soul. That man had to be part machine.
I remember frost, you will either be smart or strong.
He was a naturalist.
Tremaine and Mirowski......
dont recall Marsh or Frost doing any of that stuff ( 77-1)
I donāt know if itās true or not....
Sounds untrue.
But something like this seems to pop up once or twice a year. This further divides the department. Between young and old.
Iāve worked with younger guys who are stand up individuals. Iāve worked with guys that have as much time as me who shouldnāt be allowed to have a gun. Letās leave the young guys alone.
One name, "TERO." Enough said
what about the kid who decked Marsh,
kicked him in the balls, and pummeled
him until Marsh said "I give"?
don't forget hope b, she wasn't nice either!!
During one of the handcuffing trainings an instructor asked me to hold one of his wrist. I held it very light and in maybe 3 seconds he broke lose and slapped me in the face. Now!!! any time I go to grab shit-heads wrist, I hold that sucker hard and strong. My partner and I are going home at check off, everything we do depends on making sure we take full control of those hands. I'll take a slap in the face anytime for officer safety.
Keep your hands up kid...ahh the memories..
I need a volunteer
Fight the feeling.
Welcome to the day care gym day ... what's mommy gonna do when a shit-head beats his ass ??? Hahahahaha
Marsh was great but Frost was an asshole....
Officer Varela, who is a Marine and is a trainer was removed from the police academy because he was too aggressive with the cadets. We need more trainers like Varela, 20 years ago. Now, all the academy is accepting are the warm and fuzzy.
How bout bandemer and clay. They took pleasure in breaking one bone per class, usually a wrist. And one of em was careful to tear out your armpit hair leaving a victim to walk with outstretched arms for a week
Class of 86-9......they were bad ass and taught me how to react to assholes.....but remember when they would "pass" the old hags in the academy who could not get over the "wall"? They would miraculously get over on the weekend when nobody was around.....that was my first indication that the job was crooked.....oh well.
For our retiree's who were O Brien Street Graduates (forgive the spelling) SARBINACK
Cracked three ribs in the academy but the instructors told me to shut up, don't do sit ups, pull ups, sit ups or I'd get put on medical and miss out being in the first class of that year. Why? Because I was having physical contests with them and they knew I was the real deal and not trying to scam them. Wore a chest wrap through the rest of the academy. Still had to run though but would hold my side.
Marsh was great....he absolutely destroyed many a cheap holster in my recruit class 36 years ago.
Frost was a bit of a dick...
and Benderitis? A hundred leg raises every day...runs from the Academy to the Planetarium and back. Glad I was young and in shape enough to get through the PT back then, they worked the shit out of us back in the day.
Everyone deserves a ribbon!
Marsh and Frost you never forgot those guys and that was the point. ā ļø
Probably true, when we had gym days and our class was being a bunch of pussies, they made us bear crawl through the mud in the field across the street. The next day the gym instructor said they were told they weren't allowed to do that anymore because a future merit boss complained to their merit boyfriend/girlfriend. The pussification of this profession started long ago.
Maybe they realized law enforcement is a shitty career choice and are just setting Cleveland up for a law suit on their way out the door?
When in P.T.class. Marsh ALWAYS had our complete, undivided attention....PERIOD....And Hope wasn't so mean. She just worked us hard, No Biggie...It made us all "strong like Bull".
Anonymous said...
Marsh was great but Frost was an asshole....
1/11/2018 05:10:00 AM
They were all assholes. Everyone in that place was and still is an asshole.
Tremaine and Marowski were bad asses as well. Arm bars that made you thing you were about to be amputated. Fuck did that stuff hurt like hell.
They made us tough. We did not have to have a "safe place".
I was extremely fortunate to escape with my life after I snuck a jab that connected on Murowski's face during "Redman", he laughed it off as I shit my pants in anticipation of what was about to come. Back then men were men and the sheep were afraid...
Stanley S returned from the grave???? from a member of the class of January 1966
I suffered from PTSD after several classes of the Esposito brothers !
Itās true.....bunch of cowards now
Front lean and rest. I might have been Suburban, but CPD Academy was the real deal. Thanks for the memories. Metro 98-103
" A Day without pushups is like a day without sunshine "
RIP Tero
Police cadets or Browns tryouts?
What up with the overweight female off her teaching gym. Really?!?! Shit wish I had a phone call
Yea, that one Asian chick in the gym. Man she's tough.... hahahah...she has literally 1.5 years on the street. Did her 18months and went to the academy. What a joke lol. Used to love hearing her "war stories"....
Letās not forget Sergio Olivia. On your knockles.
Frost: āDonāt look at me like your finger went through the toilet paper!ā FRONT LEAN AND REST!!!!!
Good times.
Many people wont remember the name Sarbanack, but then I came on in 1968...
Aaaah, I still remember the Maxwell St. polish sausage and fried onions smell wafting into the windows of O"Brien St.
That's when men were men and sheep weren't nervous!
(Still supporting our men and women in Blue... Stay Safe)
Marsh was (is) a gentleman. never spoke down to you.
I was a volunteer during red man. I was in full gear. Timmy Tremain gave me a knee to the thigh Still have the bruise. That was 28 years ago
"Front leaning rest!"
sounds like cleveland has some incompetent trainers.
On your KNUCKLESSSS!!
Old timer here. Stanley Zarbanek. No one compares. He would sit a recruit in a chair and out of nowhere grab his head and simulate pulling a guy out of a car they the window. His theory was where the head goes the body follows. Just one of many.
Canāt be true. If it was I would expect that the commander or deputy of the academy would kick her out. Probably not nowadays. Itās the direction the CPD is going
Stayed out too late one night and went to gym class tired and hungover. Tero sensed it and had me sweating the alcohol out. Never did that again. Haha
Frost would jog .5 mph .... with his nappy hair doo
Tammy was like Marcy from married with children
Recruits aren't as big, strong or durable
as they used to be...
"Inclusion" is what killed this job.
Policemen used to be REQUIRED to be
as big if not bigger, stronger, smarter
and meaner than the criminal swing-dicks
they were expected to go up against.
It was also understood that there was
ABSOLUTELY NO EXPECTATION that The Police
were expected to play/fight "Fair" like
the SJWs who are joyously wrecking the
the notion of Public Safety in this town
by "Reforming" The Police.
not a fucking word being said about
"Reforming" the breathtakingly violent,
hateful and nihilistic societal subset
now given an undeserved "Seat At The Table"
to make sure that Policemen and Policing
never regain a positive footing in Chicago.
Funny...
The Fibune had all kinds of bullshit eyewash
about all those 39,000 murders in Chicago since
1957...
Again... Absolute dick-all about the m/fers who
have riotously shit the societal bed in contributing
the bulk of those murders to the tally.
"Y'all gots to clean up behin' us cuz
we still oppressed an' shit. Give us
MORE of y'all money an' be nice about
it... Maybe we'll hol' still and not
set our own shit on fire... Again..."
Progressive chickenshittery run amok...
If the numbers aren't in the favor of the assholes
calling for them, then extend the time-exposure to
jigger the results.
Right?
The time frame the Fibune uses is ten years
too long.
1967 would have been more appropriate.
Then we could get a true bill on the results
vis-Ć -vis the local media clamoring for ALL
COMPLAINTS AGAINST CPD OFFICERS going back to:
>DRUM ROLL<
...1967
(Somewhere an editorial board just shit their pants)
Fucking hypocrites...
Viva Hate.
"Police Reform" in it's current iteration is
nothing but the joyously non-contributory
classes of peoples an' folkses being acceded
to by City Hall and given free air time by
local media in order to pursue their revanchist
wet dream run amok to settle scores with The Police
and the rest of upright, law abiding, freedom loving society.
The "Reformists" apparently have no mirrors
hanging in their collective houses to turn a
willfully blind eye to their butchery bill
since 1967 to focus on the comparatively few
Policemen who actually misfit the uniform.
"We're sick and tired of paying out for you COPS!"
But you're strangely ok with paying out for
50 years of urban cultural failure?
Sure... Lets do a strict side by side comparison
of what The Police "cost" versus all that yummy
"urban culture?"
Double-Dog-Dare ya...
"You COPS are always thinking mean, nasty and racist!"
Oh come off it already.
(Somewhere a SJW has been "triggered.")
Police Like You Have No Friends.
Look.
Laugh.
Leave.
Trust me on this one please, Marsh had very good skills there's no doubt about that one. But I saw something that was talked about in the mid 80's for some time. The Majors detail was in the academy for defensive tactics, and the focus was disarming a person with a gun or a knife and take downs. One of the Security Specialist was well trained in an internal Chinese Martial Art, which was not known by many. During a typical demonstration of Marsh, he suddenly without warning disarmed a knife, and then went into a violent take down of the mentioned member of the Majors Detail. During this take down of the Majors Security Guard, he turned the tables on Marsh. In a counter move, he took control of Marsh to everyones surprise. Then everyone observing, saw how he let Marsh take back control and save face. The look on Marsh's face was of complete surprise that his take down technique was defeated. I'm not knocking Marsh in anyway, but sometimes you see something like described above and hope there aren't to many people like the one who did something you thought was impossible.
Frost told our class to circle around him then called the biggest guy in our class out to stand next to him. Frost then kneeled next to the recruit and said,I donāt care how big a guy is or how tough he is, Thereās no reason you canāt take a guy down. At which point Frost punched the recruit square in his balls!! That day I learned that Frost was right. He was a complete asshole but he was right
Gus was a machine. He would run the hell out of you and when the weather was bad, it was bear claws and run from basement to the top fooor over and ove again.
Tremaine was vicious in the RED man training. Those pads did not deflect the karate man kicks to my side.
I wouldnāt trade it for the world.
Boy was I in great shape back then. Class of 90-2
After watching the "concussions" thing play out in school football, trust in this....
Clevland had ONE injury.
Better to get a little hurt in training with people that care, than a big hurt on the streets by people that don't care.
Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid. (John Wayne, I think.)
J.J.
Anyone for a game of Redman?
Tuff titty said the kitty but the milk tastes good!
Time for a rest? OK LEANING REST!!
"Don't cheat yourself. Treat yourself !" "A day without pushups is like a day without sunshine !" R.I.P. Tero
Sabernack
USMC really helped me out in this area.
I'm sure 24/7 video games......not so much.
Hazing, abusing police and military recruits or just fraternity hazing is always the work of bullies, cowards.
We need to train our recruits in positive ways.
CCSP field force ("riot control") training: end of the week, blistered, bloody feet from running in "new boots" (dumb rookie mistake), blistered, bloody ass from sit-ups, almost detached thumbs from riot baton training. Screaming muscle cramps. No trips to the ER. By graduation, I was in the best shape of my life.
I remember when they didnt run in the academy. They did aerobics
Sta-Puft Marshmallow and Frosty Creme.
Canāt remember the Marathon Manās name - ran us up and down the SunTimes ramp, to Western Ave PJās, and then do burpee monkey squats in the mud along Throop side of the gym room.
Complain all you want, they were ready to put you on Medical if you didnāt at least try drag your tired beat ass.
Do they still have the 6 ft. Wall that everyone had to climb over to graduate?
Now liberal tenderness and community awareness policies are the bill of fare.
To incoming recruits: When youāre going to the Academy be sure to wear a flower in your hair.
In every welcoming ChancĆ© D. Wrapper backpack, thereās a CAPS coloring book, box of 64 crayons, Jolly Ranchers and āIām with Rahmā - āResistā bumper stickers for your Prius.
Yet to be reported:
Sitting indigenous person-style in peace circle training caused a meniscus tear.
Patchouli-sweet sassafras infused incense caused a fallout due to nausea.
Organic global sourced furnishings in safe space comfort room caused an elbow rash.
How about formally extremely high taxed best place to live Naperville? The elected voted to accept section 8 bullshit and the crime is rising now another star from there:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/naperville-sun/news/ct-met-charges-in-downers-grove-death-20180111-story.html
The taxpayers there should boot out every elected moron that voted for this the police are overwhelmed, attention Naperville residents get your concealed carried immediately all thanks to the elected making "Naperville unsafe"
Marsh was great but Frost was an asshole....
1/11/2018 05:10:00 AM
Nah. They were both assholes. Anyone who physically hurts someone who can't fight back is a coward. If any recruit returned fire those punks would have had the kid fired.
If you cheat now you'll cheat for the rest of your life.
P.O. Tero RIP. You will forever be "The Man"
"TURN OVER"
P.O. Tero
RIP Gone but you will never be forgotten.
God knows that if P.O. Tero caught you cheating on push ups or any exercise he would call you over before you hit the shower and he would tell you that instead of you going to lunch, he'd want you to meet him in the gym for "Inspirational Hour"
P.O. Tero
RIP
I will forever remember you.
93-2
Resendez...always like to mess with people....
USMC really helped me out in this area.
I'm sure 24/7 video games......not so much.
1/11/2018 12:10:00 PM
Amen to that. I came on in 1981 and my training at Parris Island came in handy. Our "big" video game in the 70's was PONG, lmao.
Sarbarneck and company real tough guys make Marsh and company look like cream puffs
Anonymous said...
Marsh was great but Frost was an asshole....
1/11/2018 05:10:00 AM
They were all assholes. Everyone in that place was and still is an asshole.
Iām a 92-4 class. My few recollections of the gym were that Tero and a guy named Roberts (canāt remember his first name) were nice guys who didnāt talk down to you. Marsh was Marsh. Murowski (sp?) could run for what seemed like days, but was ok. Pecoraro was another guy that ran like a Kenyan, but was ok. Tammy Anderson was there too, and etched in my memory was welcome to the gym day,, with her walking around with a box of Dunkinā Donuts, waving them in our faces as we were in leaning rest. Her ādo it NOWā screech during gym classes wonāt be fading from memory either. The only asshole that really stuck out was sgt. Resendez. I couldnāt stand him. He was an arrogant fuck. Iād always hoped Iād run into him further on down the road but never did. God bless Gus Tero though.
Training was the best thing that ever happened to us. It was for a reason. God Bless class 86-8.
Anonymous said...
Hazing, abusing police and military recruits or just fraternity hazing is always the work of bullies, cowards.
We need to train our recruits in positive ways.
1/11/2018 12:15:00 PM
You tell them, snowflake! Yeah man! Positive reinforcement so when you have really mean people on the street you know how to deescalate and say nice things to them until they say, "well, shucks, this darn officer is just so damn nice, I'ma stop fighting, tell him to handcuff me and then gimme a hug. He's just sooooo positive!"
Resendez broke his own kids arm. Has to re tread
Marsh,"Come here recruit." Me, "Yes Sir!" and stood next to him. Next thing I am on the ground seeing stars. I got hit in the side of the head with a palm strike because I did not have my hands up in the correct position. Thought of it as a badge of honor. Got to know March later, great guy. Last I heard he and Mazlanka had house next to each other on a hill in Galena Territory. All I can do is picture the movie second hand lions with those two sitting in their rocking chairs waiting for any unwanted guest to approach.
Tremaine was a total badass but he softened with classes as the months went on. He might have been crazy, but he ended up being very helpful. Murowski I thought was a real cool cat from the get go. He even was an instructor for a couple of non phys ed classes and I found him to be very informative and entertaining. I remember hearing about Frost but I got on in 2002 and he might have retired by then. Was he a black guy or white guy?
Resendez was a poseur. Talked shit to people who would have wiped the floor with him. Wasn't that strong or even fit.
Not true. They are post just to be posting.
Who really learned how to fight there? How often did you use what Marsh and Murowski and Tremaine taught us. I liked all those guys, never really saw them hurt anyone. They taught technique well, but never wailed on recruits. All good guys. When you got to the street and hae your first fight with some asshole, you reverted back to how you fought in 8th grade, swinging wildly and trying to wrestle some jagoff to the ground. You have to practice martial arts for it to be effective. I did think Frost was an arrogant douche . And running with the late Pete Wenger was a bitch. But , we had fun. Had men like Maslanka and Kushner. Good guys like Bielfeldt, and others. Anyway, nice to be retired.
How about when marsh used to tase himself!
Frost was nothing more than a bully cheap shot artist coward who spent his entire career inside the gym, never saw a day on the street.
Funny, you learn all this stuff for your own survival
and protection, then COPA comes along and tells
you were wrong. Need an instructor at every COPA
adjudication to explain how the officers were trained,
including the reasoning and technique for the balls
punch. Passive, easy going cops usually wind up dead.
Marsh, Tremain and Tero in the gym, Patros and Michaels on the range. We learned how to control a guy so we didn't always have to kill him, but learned how to shoot, just in case we did. We ran, because you never walk anywhere. We would go out for a run, and end up running through alleys, vacant lots, over fences and through active intersections. I thought those fuckers were trying to kill us; turns out they were trying to save us. I also leaned that the gun shoots from the hip too. Waiting until you're up in your stance, sighting in on your target and giving commands could be the three and a half seconds that cause your death. Sometimes, you start pulling the trigger as you draw from the holster and aim your gun in the direction of the offender as soon as you clear the top of the leather. Learned it and it works; I'm alive.
Ah, the good Ol' days.
God Bless You CPD! Those of you who experienced Tero's wristlocks would you please comment. My Hapkido rank was earned in Korea and I can attest Tero had some strong skills. RIP TERO, your Hapkido family will forever cherish your spirit.
RIP TERO! What one heck of an officer and kind soul. I witnessed him getting a message that a recruit that was from his neck of the woods (CHA Stateway Gardens) had a death that was and the recruit was trying his best to hold onto his family intact because his mother and 3 of his siblings died in a car crash. The recruit was living without utilities, barely food for his 2 younger siblings that were not involved in the crash and their ages were somewhere between 14 and 13. The recruit had just turned 22 and had graduated from some school in the south. Not sure but I believe it was either Alcorn State or something where he was a running back. Tero told a group of individuals that he was showing some locks and chokes for Grandmaster Hyun's visiting Hapkido/TKD students to wait while he answered a call to his brother Mr.T. The recruit was provided a decent home fully furnished for his family in Chatham and TERO never boasted or bragged about helping this recruit. The recruit graduated damn near top of his class and became one of your brothers. Funny thing is TERO would smoke him and make him run like crazy and attend late evening martial arts training sessions to. The recruit went on to have a stellar career in law enforcement after about 12 years before he moved on to something else by way of becoming an agent for the DEA. RIP TERO!
Frost was a cross-breed of Pit/Cane Corso.
1st day. 1989. We assembled in the gym. No uniforms yet. Just shirt and tie. Teri, Marsh, Resendez, and Tremaine start yelling at everybody. We were all sitting in the stands. Next thing I know, Tremaine is pointing at me and tells me to come down on the gym floor. He tells me to hold a square pad in front of my face. Then he hit me with his elbow moving straight up to my chin.
I remember flying though the air. I know my feet left the ground. I landed flat on my back bouncing my head off the maple gym floor. Didnāt get up right away but when I did I saw everyone in the stands looking frightened, hoping they wouldnāt be next.
Anonymous said...
Officer Varela, who is a Marine and is a trainer was removed from the police academy because he was too aggressive with the cadets. We need more trainers like Varela, 20 years ago. Now, all the academy is accepting are the warm and fuzzy.
1/11/2018 05:35:00 AM
The same guy who let the junkie/ho steal his tact car?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKJTOBNb1mg
CPD Officers just imagine how weakened the control tactical curriculum has been pushed corrections. Your cousins are taught and demanded by administration to not defend themselves and to wait for response team members who can't bust a grape and are soft as marshmallows to arrive. Inmates are allowed to throw shit and haymakers on officers and if the officer is not wearing a camera the officer will be suspended and rammed raw by administration! Inmates will lay on the floor and the officer had better not think of making a move. God Bless You Officers!
The best was when Pecoraro had a bowl of chili, and someone opened the door on him and it spilled all over him...the look on his face was priceless...Frost was a douche....
tero- heres one from him, maximize the minimum.
How about when marsh used to tase himself!
1/11/2018 10:40:00 PM
Yeh. I was really impressed. Until a couple of jokers in my home room got a hold of his electric zapper (not a tazer)and started zapping each other. I took a turn too. Light tingle. Marsh was full of shit,using a rigged device. My other fond memory of the ass wipe was when he walked into one of the men's room,q PPO at a,urinal says"Hi sir"and Marsh hauls of and suckered punches the guy while the PPO was taking a leak. Then warned him to always be on guard. A bully and a coward.
Tero was a great man, not a racist like a lot of people called him(and yes, I am white). He was one of the fairest instructors there. Roberts, a fourth or fifth degree Blackwell in several disciplines,was another...tough as iron but secure enough to not have to humiliate you. Marsh? A fucking sadistic psychopath who didn't give a fuck if you washed out in training because he broke something on you and you had to try to retread. The funny thing is that the worst instructors r actors were always the first ones sitting at the bar after classes waiting for recruits to buy them drinks. FUcking leaches.
Had Marsh and company in 86 academy class. They made sure we learned what we needed to survive. Marsh is still a friend of mine, and even now could probably kick the shit out of most of the recruits in a current academy class. He truly had a desire to teach. Obviously, as we can see by the comments here, he had a great impact on a whole generation of Police Officers.
1/11 at 10:57PM, you do not know what you are talking about, Frost could be an ahole but he did work the street. He ended up at the academy after a serious motorcyle crash. I know people on the tact team he worked!!! He was almost crippled in the accident!!! Say that shit to his face, bet you wouldn't even do it now.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How about formally extremely high taxed best place to live Naperville? The elected voted to accept section 8 bullshit and the crime is rising now another star from there:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/naperville-sun/news/ct-met-charges-in-downers-grove-death-20180111-story.html
The taxpayers there should boot out every elected moron that voted for this the police are overwhelmed, attention Naperville residents get your concealed carried immediately all thanks to the elected making "Naperville unsafe"
1/11/2018 02:37:00 PM
Good,get them out of Chicago.
Tim,Jim,and Bill were the best. Stand-up guys,all of them.
And let's not forget P.O. Collins with endless runs up and down the stairwells of the academy and loads of push ups("up, dowwwnnn") at the top and bottom of the stairwells. Good times.
Yeh. I was really impressed. Until a couple of jokers in my home room got a hold of his electric zapper (not a tazer)and started zapping each other. I took a turn too. Light tingle. Marsh was full of shit,using a rigged device. My other fond memory of the ass wipe was when he walked into one of the men's room,q PPO at a,urinal says"Hi sir"and Marsh hauls of and suckered punches the guy while the PPO was taking a leak. Then warned him to always be on guard. A bully and a coward.
1/12/2018 05:41:00 PM
On a previous post, a Mayoral Guard was surprise attacked by Marsh and was neutralized by someone who he had no idea was trained in a Chinese Martial Art. Marsh wasn't stupid, he never used that Body Guard again in demonstrating take down techniques.
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