Use of Force Proper
- A police practices and use-of-force expert testified Friday that Officer Robert Rialmo had no choice but to shoot Quintonio LeGrier in December 2015.
Emanuel Kapelsohn told jurors that a stun gun, pepper spray or a baton would not be appropriate responses to someone charging at an officer with an aluminum baseball bat.
Kapelsohn said that Rialmo’s actions were “in keeping” with departmental policies on use of force.
This is a nationally recognized expert on Use of Force situations, appearing nationally numerous times and in at least nine other Chicago cases. Hopefully, there are a couple intelligent people on the jury watching and paying attention.
Labels: shooting
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
47 Comments:
Most intelligent people, with corresponding committments and responsibilities, avoid jury duty.
Good luck.
Facts have little to do with how the jury will rule.
The use of force model will now officially be deemed racist by the communerty, obviously. ��
Use-of-force expert?!?!
Egads, what are you trying to measure? Violence with a micrometer?
If someone is coming at me with a baseball bat, I'd pull out my FosTecH Origin and crack off a couple of rounds. (OO of course)
I know that's not standard issue in your department (too expensive), but that's what we carry in a Rolls or Bentley. We carry Grey Poupon, do you think our taste in guns would be something as common as a Remington?
A Remington? I used to have a butler named Remington.
An honest-to-God, nationally recognized expert on the use of force testified favorably in defense of an officer's actions? In almost ANY other jurisdiction outside of California, this would be the death blow to the prosecution's efforts. Since this is Cook County, though . . .
I'm sure the narrative for the story explaining the deceased's reason for wielding the baseball bat will be that he was looking to become a baseball player and was going to show the cop how good he was at hitting a ball.
Let's stop with all this nonsense. ANYONE in their right mind would stop someone coming at them with a baseball bat with a gun (if they had one!!).
Are you supposed to just stand there and take it??
What will be the new "Correct Use-of-force Standards?? They are allowed one hit before pepper spray can be used? Three hits before a taser? 6 before you can draw a gun?
If a cop tells you to stop, you STOP. If he(or she) tells you to drop whatever you have, you DROP it. If you don't, you're automatically signing up for the Kill Zone.
Stop and Drop --- Start having CPS teach that from K-12. It would probably save 98% of these stupid incidences. (AND - a ton in savings by terminating the Ghetto Lottery - which seems to be paying off a lot lately)
The rational, reasonable and instinctively right reaction to imminent threat of death has no value to the delusionally inclined.
Or to the deceptively intending.
So, the adage we shall see what we shall see, applies.
Bets are no jurors were even awake when this was presented in court
And what were the decisions of the cases this so called expert testified on in the past ?
Since when did someone need an "expert" to tell them mace isn't appropriate against someone with a baseball bat? If you want to live at least.
Sanity has no business being in our courts.
The defense has to bring in a Pigs head and have a few of the juror's take a swing, demonstrating a skull can be cracked open by a bat and its a deadly weapon.
I don't need an expert to tell me someone with a baseball bat is dangerous and can kill me. On that FosTech, I don't think I would be carrying something like that for CCL, so I would just use my old 1911; that's right boy and girls, a good old fashion 45acp should do the job just fine in my humble opinion.
Doesn't matter. There is an election coming. The verdict was arrived at and signed before any jury was impaneled. It sits in judge evans desk awaiting the end of the trial
I’m sure most jurors were snoring during this “expert’s” testimony.
My use of force model now involves obeying traffic laws and blaring my sireen as loud as possible .
Intelligent? Hmmm...sorry fresh out.
In other news "Cook County inmates call new jail recording studio 'a blessing'; officials hope it reduces recidivism" Sure because there are so many entry level jobs for rappers. Cash strapped county???????
Jury? What jury? Is he charged?
This whole "jury of your peers" thing is such an oxymoron....
Defense Attorney: The scrappy, switch hitting decedent was about to be signed by a major league baseball team with the expected starting salary of 30 mil...
This kid has a Go Fund Me page that is not generating much money. You think that use of force expert is free?
I was on his page yesterday and I mostly see $25 donations and none which are identified as CPD.
This officer should not have to depend on the charity of strangers. He's your guy, get behind him.
Willing to bet jury will ignore the expert. What is racial makeup of jury? Bottom line, in Chicago, everything is about race.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"An honest-to-God, nationally recognized expert on the use of force testified favorably in defense of an officer's actions? In almost ANY other jurisdiction outside of California, this would be the death blow to the prosecution's efforts. Since this is Cook County, though . . ."
Yes, the make up of typical Crook County juries makes that testimony irrelevant.
This just in!!! Use of force to be modified. Officers will all be retrained in the following preferred methods of primary response:
- high speed moonwalking
- running backwards
- rubbing Vaseline on your uniform so that the "honor student and/or citizen" can not grab ahold preventing the officer from running away.
- crying on demand
- tickle fighting
I can see it coming. A wood bat is solid. An aluminum bat is hollow. The “libs” on the jury will cling to it because they’re clueless.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
An honest-to-God, nationally recognized expert on the use of force testified favorably in defense of an officer's actions? In almost ANY other jurisdiction outside of California, this would be the death blow to the prosecution's efforts. Since this is Cook County, though . . .
6/24/2018 12:39:00 AM
This is a civil case. There is no "prosecution". The correct term is "plaintiff"!!! Cook County has nothing to do with this. It is in Federal Court. This is one reason why the public gets the wrong impression of law enforcement
Did the Public Defender KimmFXXup and the COPA have the baseball bat re-swabbed for DNA by their preferred independent outside agency yet?
Drawn out civil trial continues to keep the heat on the police but not PayOff Pandering Weasel Rahm or the Right Man for the Right Time™️.
Simply showing that La’Greer raised the bat with intent to commit great bodily injury (a crime) should be enough in any logical civil (or criminal) court to swiftly close this matter.
But it’s Cook County and there’s always a wacky excuse for the violent ferals deranged actions.
That poleece should have lassoed or shot that that baseball bat from the hands that troubled boy comes to mind.
Don’t trust a Tolerant-Diverse-Welcoming Sanctuary City
Stay Fetal and out of Jhetto Affairs.
Foutris also disclosed that Kapelsohn has been retained by the city as an expert in at least nine other police use-of-force lawsuits.
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None of the jurors was there to witness it first hand and there is no video. Given how easy it is to find a paid defense witness to testify to just about anything these days, I would not be surprised if given the totality of the situation the jurors choose not to believe. The credibility of the CPD is at an all time low with the public at large.
Most jurors are going to see police reports that are changed multiple times as evidence of malfeasance. As they probably should. Anyone whose story changes over time is suspect for good reason.
I think if the jurors believe the dead guy actually attacked the cop with a bat they would vote in favor of the defense. If they are suspicious of the cop's story it will be a lot easier to find for the plaintiff.
Keep in mind the radically different standard of proof required in a civil case versus a criminal case. It is doubtful a conviction against the cop could be sustained in this case because the standard of proof is so much higher in a criminal case.
Stop and Drop.
Excellent idea. Should become a new Illinois law.
(Not that anyone but law abiding citizens would adhere too.)
Comply with Stop and Drop, maybe go to jail, maybe go home.
Don't comply with Stop and Drop, go to morgue.
I had the rule of asking any teens who had a baseball bat with them, "show me the baseball." and if no one had one, the bat automatically went into the squad car trunk.
What does the jury look like? The way things go police are always wrong, from the exempts being extremely silent,saying nothing even about the vicious cop killer getting out along with the silenced elected democrats all of them the Toni-Tommy-Kimmy-the 50 crew along with puppet master rahm!
Then there is this from senile granny:
Maxine Waters orders MORE public harassment of Trump aides: ‘God is on OUR side!’
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/maxine-waters-orders-more-public-harassment-of-trump-aides-god-is-on-our-side/
“History will record while he tried to step on all of us, we kicked him in his rear and step on him,” she yelled, whipping up the crowd.
“If you think we’re rallying now, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet,” she warned.
So this pos is ordering harassment that can easily lead to violence wound this not qualify as treason against the country? Crazy granny gets the bully pulpit and encourages this shit! The people on the right who believe in law and order,the rule of law and support police are silent, but we vote! The only way to get rid of this and make this country great again is to vote out all the democrats, at 1 time long ago they were for the workers,and unions now they support illegal criminals and lawlessness! No the feds are not coming here or anywhere unless it is to get a copper hooked up!
Sessions definitely asleep at the helm, just like teh captain on the Titanic the iceberg was known and we know the story the same with crook county/chiraq/and this most corrupt city,state,county in the USA!
Not in Chicago. The police are always wrong in their eyes.
Take the jurors to a range and have them go through the Tueller drill using a paint ball gun.
Let's see how many shoot long before the guy with the bat gets to 11 feet.
Bets are no jurors were even awake when this was presented in court
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Jurors have pretty much figured out that paid defense witnesses will testify to whatever it is they were paid to testify to, otherwise they would not be on the stand. It is an iffy proposition as to whether they take the witness's testimony at face value or think of it as tainted due to the amount of money being paid to the witness for his testimony.
HA. Intelligent people on a jury in Cook County? Ever pay attention to some of the Judges? Good luck with that. Rialto chose the right weapon. We all know that, Sorry for the neighbor but when fractions of seconds come into play, things can sometimes go bad just as fast. He was in fear of his life and under the circumstance, the shoot was in accordance with state law the way I see it. He is charged for political purposes and we all know that too.
http://www.kwch.com/content/news/DA-releases-body-cam-video-in-shooting-by-officer-that-injured-girl-486221171.html
Emanuel Kapelsohn is paid for his time. His testimony is not for sale. If you're the one with your tit in the wringer you'll be lucky to have him. Dumbshit.
Jurors have pretty much figured out that paid defense witnesses will testify to whatever it is they were paid to testify to, otherwise they would not be on the stand. It is an iffy proposition as to whether they take the witness's testimony at face value or think of it as tainted due to the amount of money being paid to the witness for his testimony.
6/24/2018 02:11:00 PM
Jurors: Theoretically randomly selected, average citizens, registered voters, compellef to serve. Random, until, the process of jury selction runs it's course, upon which not quite so random.
Judge: (aka, bench trial) Theoretically impartial decider of just application of current law. Impartial, in Crook County?
Thus, barring settlement success choice, a fucking crap shoot.
All peanut gallery speculations are entertainment; all giving credit to the thoughtful considerings of a jury, or, the impartial determinations of a crook county judge, are spinning the wheels within their own minds.
The only way to not be rolling the dice, whether in criminal or civil court, is to not be there in the first place.
Of course it was a proper and justified use of force.
The only ones who don’t see it that way are the ghetto lottery family and the ghetto lottery lawyers and lastly the police hating COPA.
Anonymous said...
Take the jurors to a range and have them go through the Tueller drill using a paint ball gun.
Let's see how many shoot long before the guy with the bat gets to 11 feet.
6/24/2018 01:00:00 PM
Awesome idea!
Have to wonder what the Plantiff's expert witness said about facing somebody with a bat. Where there's one there another.
The media has been reporting on this trial every single day except the day that the expert witness testified that rialmo did nothing wrong
Have to wonder what the Plantiff's expert witness said about facing somebody with a bat. Where there's one there another.
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If you read the articles carefully it would appear there is considerable discrepancy between the various stories told about what happened.
The shooting as a means of defense makes perfect sense under one version of the story being told. Much less so under another version.
Saw on the news where the plaintiff's attorney pointed out that the use of force expert had testified for the city on numerous other cases in an effort to show that he was a hired shill for the city.
Well all the defense has to do is bring in THEIR own police use of force expert to review the case and circumstances and rebut him.
But isn't that what COPA appears to have done when they hired an outside consultant to review the case but redacted and refused to disclose the contents of his report? Is that maybe because the report didn't fall the way they wanted it to?
Is that maybe because the report didn't fall the way they wanted it to?
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Or maybe he said it was unjustified and the city did not want that on the record. or maybe the expert pointed out the various stories told that make it look bad. who knows since it is not being publicized.
why don't you FOIA it if you care?
Judge Hooks would throw this testimony out... Might be linked to Burge....
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