Defense Animation
You can see the video at various media links on hte right hand side. Here's one of them:
It does show how dash cams are unable to fully capture a rapidly evolving situation in three dimensions. Oblique angles come into play constantly where the parties involved are seldom stationary. It also shows how different officers can have different (and constantly changing) views of an event as everything/everyone moves around.
It going to come down to whose experts make the better case.
As an aside, does anyone know if any exempts are going to be called by the defense? These individuals judged the shooting to be within Department guidelines and as every here knows, Department Orders are specifically written to be MORE restrictive than State Law. And if it's MORE restrictive than State Law, it can logically be judged as reasonable. McNaughton ought to be front-and-center for that explanation and grilled mercilessly.
It going to come down to whose experts make the better case.
As an aside, does anyone know if any exempts are going to be called by the defense? These individuals judged the shooting to be within Department guidelines and as every here knows, Department Orders are specifically written to be MORE restrictive than State Law. And if it's MORE restrictive than State Law, it can logically be judged as reasonable. McNaughton ought to be front-and-center for that explanation and grilled mercilessly.
Labels: events
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
77 Comments:
Scc the judge already ruled the bosses can’t be asked ! How about a post about it ? Why is nobody talking about this ?
If everyone's account of an incident is the same, they "colluded" on a story. If the accounts differ because of a different viewpoint, "someone's lying." Neither Kimmie, the press, the rev-rearends, nor the community mis-leaders are satisfied.
720 ILCS 5/7-5 Peace Officers Use of Force While Making Arrest
Deadly force is justified when 1) the force is necessary to prevent the arrest to be defeated by resistance or escape and
2) .......... or is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon........
Sorry I don't have the patience to type this whole thing but I believe JVD was justified in shooting under this statute. Look it up. Read it carefully. A knife is a deadly weapon. LM was obviously going to be arrested and would have been had he not been armed with the deadly weapon. I hope Herbert is going to argue this in court. JVD does not have to be in immenint fear or danger as a civilian might. JVD or any other officer does not have to put himself in front of LM in order to be justified in shooting him.
I don't think JVD made a good decision to shoot him at that point the way he did but I think he was justified under the law. All the exempts who signed off on this must have felt the same thing. Are they going to be called as defense witnesses? If not why not? The only place I've seen this mentioned is on this blog.
The big problem is the video, the 16 shots, the optics and the politics of the liberal desire to convict a police officer for murder.
How did that animation help JVD?! I was expecting some unforseen movement or gesture before he opened fire.
Yes, McDonald closed the distance; but so did JVD.
Bottom line if bosses are not called to testify than the defense has failed Van Dyke
Maybe the defense attorneys don't want to call the exempts because they will look and testify like the bumbling buffoons that they are. Asking those meritorious clowns to testify would hurt JVDs case.
I remember watching the Zimmerman Trayvon Martin trial on TV, and then hearing the news reports about the same trial. I was amazed at the idiocy and mendacity of the reporters. It was like they were watching a completely different trial.
If there are any people attending the trial, can you tell me if this trial reporting is any better?
Never mind McNaughton; Bring in McCarthy, Rahm and Fathead Ed. The top Brass and Mayor saw that video within 24 hrs. of the incident. Also, drag in Ms. Roundtree, the Liaison to the Mayor for Police Affairs. These people used VanDyke as a pawn, and manipulated an entire election by suppressing the video, these Top Officials got Rahm a Second Term. And the Trial denied Rahm a Third Term, not to mention his Absolute Incompetence. VanDyke has been Used, and the public has been Misled, by McCarthy, Fathead Ed and Rahm, and they should be held accountable under oath. Stay Safe and Strong. Baby "G"
I had thought early on the judge ruled they CANNOT testify.
Any clue when they’re going to send this thing to the jury? Monday??
McNaughton, Wayne Gulliford and host of others should testify.
RAHM rigged this shitshow bad.
Just picture each exempt that signed off on this shooting reading the general order on force on the stand.
Then picture them being asked is this your signature on the report that states the shooting is justified.
And then special Ed can open those big puppy dog eyes and say YEA i watched the video but i was texting while the actual shooting part started!
It hit me like a thunderbolt last night while driving in circles on the north side..this trial and potential antics at its’ conclusion
will not be allowed to interfere with the Chicago Marathon. A 2016 economic impact study pegged
the marathon’s boost to the city’s economy at $115 million. This is going to stretch to 08 Oct at the earliest for a verdict.
As a layman who has, like most Chicagoans, seen the dash cam video countless times, I found the video reconstruction very informative.
Beginning with the path and distance LM and responding officers travelled; to where exactly on Pulaski LM was intercepted; to the proximity of the vehicles, LM, and JvD with one another; to the different perspectives of the shooting. I, for one, was surprised by (a) how close LM and JvD were at the time the first shot was fired - the Chicago Tribune reports 13 feet; and, (b) how, at that time, LM was walking in JvD's direction. Lunging? No, but still closing the gap. That was not previously obvious from the fixed perspective of the dash cam video.
The Tueller Drill demonstrates the average individual can close a gap of 21-feet within 1.5 seconds. LM and JvD were less than 2/3rds that distance from one another and LM was holding a contact weapon. That means LM could have been on JvD in well under one second. It seems to me that that puts the shooting well within the parameters of a justifiable shooting.
One can argue whether lethal force was the "best" way to handle the situation, but that's a distinction that falls outside the parameters of the law. Legal and smart are not necessarily -- and often aren't -- the same things.
All in all, I think the video reconstruction is helpful to the defense.
Stay safe, everyone.
I was expecting something like an "Aha" moment here for the defense. I didn't see that from the animation.
Both sides thus far there hasn't been an "Aha" moment.
It's going to boil down to the jury making the call of was lethal force justified. Everything else in my opinion is superfluous.
Heard the reporter on CLTV saying she has an ex marine friend who told her that police are taught to shoot to wound. And that only the military is taught to shoot center mass. She wouldn't let it go, even after being politely told her friend was wrong.
The main reason that bosses won't be called is that most of them don't know where the courthouse is located, having never been there.
As an aside, does anyone know if any exempts are going to be called by the defense? These individuals judged the shooting to be within Department guidelines and as every here knows, Department Orders are specifically written to be MORE restrictive than State Law. And if it's MORE restrictive than State Law, it can logically be judged as reasonable. McNaughton ought to be front-and-center for that explanation and grilled mercilessly.
Labels: events
Haha good luck trying to find one that can articulate State law or any law or rule for that matter, most of these merit hacks admit that they don't even read any of the reports that are generated and simply rubber stamp their approval in an effort not to miss their next free luncheon...
The prosecutor asked stupid, irrelevant questions during cross. Colors of clothing and lighting conditions matter zero. What does matter is the fact that Laquan moved from over 30ft away from Van Dyke, to 13ft away from him, while armed with a deadly weapon. Prosecution did zero to refute the 3D animation which showed Laquan closing the gap on Van Dyke. Shooting is justified per ILCS use of force statutes. Even if jury convicts, the judge should overturn the verdict based on that clear ILCS statute.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How did that animation help JVD?! I was expecting some unforseen movement or gesture before he opened fire.
Yes, McDonald closed the distance; but so did JVD.
9/26/2018 01:30:00 AM
JVD is ALLOWED to close the distance to make a legal arrest.
Did JVD use good judgment by closing the distance? That's a matter of opinion.
Was this homicide???
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Those exempts being called to testify would make great comedy. Since none of them has ever done real police work, they have never been to court.......maybe in paternity cases.
That is a very brilliant observation.
At least the video shows more clearly, that LQM keeps moving forward after the first shot. I clearly remember the police academy teaching to "keep shooting until the threat is stopped". I hope the defense can show that 16 shots are no more deadly force than one shot. They also taught us, once the deadly force threshold has been reached, the number of shots by police is still called "deadly force", And does not escalate to excessive force. G-D speed Officer.
You can see here how liberal thinking has made this whole case against this officer who was merely doing his job.
I agree with you SCC I’ve been saying for awhile now that the defense needs to call some of the exempts who all ruled the shooting justified.
Let them explain how it was justified..... until the political winds started to blow and they were instructed to reverse course.
It may just come down to:
Has even one of the jurors ever faced a lunatic with a knife in hand?
Or even witnessed a lunatic with a knife in hand?
Let alone witnessed a lunatic with a knife in hand stabbing someone?
Even if a cop wasn’t in danger, certainly citizens could suddenly be in danger of death or gbh. JVD was thrown under the bus.
Anonymous said...
I remember watching the Zimmerman Trayvon Martin trial on TV, and then hearing the news reports about the same trial. I was amazed at the idiocy and mendacity of the reporters. It was like they were watching a completely different trial.
If there are any people attending the trial, can you tell me if this trial reporting is any bette
—————-
I was at 26 cal and can attest to the numbers and behavior of the protesters.
They really are “professional protesters”. How can u tell? Cause they were all white, held expensive, professionally made banners, had expensive bullhorns and yelled very long and detailed chants.
They also ALL left at 9am-presumably to go to their regular jobs/class.
The only ones remaining were two 70 year old black panthers that waived the black power flag and chanted 1960’s era chants to a boom box that blasted what sounded like the theme to Shaft. Can you dig it? I’m talking about Shaft-he’s one bad mother-shut your mouth!
The animation appears to show JVD shoot LM as he strolls by...definitely not flattering to JVd or the “threat” narrative but the state statute also covers letting this criminal loose to terrorize others. JVD should’ve been administratively disciplined (if at all) and retrained under stress (as we all should) but that’s it. Hell probably get shafted for politics bc jurors want “revenge” for family but he’ll win his appeal after a few years of pain and suffering. God bless all down around that courthouse. Stay safe.
Mcnaughton is and was a merit hack. Promoted well above his ability.
I remember watching the Zimmerman Trayvon Martin trial on TV, and then hearing the news reports about the same trial. I was amazed at the idiocy and mendacity of the reporters. It was like they were watching a completely different trial.
If there are any people attending the trial, can you tell me if this trial reporting is any better?
9/26/2018 04:40:00 AM
Of course it's not any better. Most of the media in Chgo are police haters, and only present biased reporting which benefits the man with a knife in this case. (Especially WGNs radio stream)
OFF TOPIC... I’m not sure but I just got finished watching Ofc LV. She maybe the worst officer I have EVER seen testify and also has her priorities backwards. An officer called for help and she argued with her partner not to assist an officer in need, she argued that she didn’t want to go, she wanted to go down on lunch. SHE, OFC LV IS A GOOD REASON THAT OFFICERS GET INJURED. I’m embarressed to have wear the same uniform she does. She should get locked up for perjury, you know it’s not going to happen. IF OFC LV YOU ARE READING THIS, YOUR A DISGRACE AND GIVE WOMEN A TERRIBLE NAME ON THIS JOB, you dont deserve to wear this uniform, you disgust me.
Anonymous said...
Bottom line if bosses are not called to testify
than the defense has failed Van Dyke
9/26/2018 02:59:00 AM
Anonymous said...
Scc the judge already ruled the bosses can’t be asked !
How about a post about it ? Why is nobody talking about this ?
9/26/2018 12:14:00 AM
>Sips coffee<
And of course, the judge being wholly beholden to the
political powers that be, has his marching orders to
shield the exempts who originally ruled this to be a
justifiable shoot, from being sat down in the witness
chair and compelled to give testimony under oath as to
how/why it was a justifiable shoot. (not that it wasn't
under the strict and unyielding reading/interpretation
/application of ILLINOIS STATE LAW to which CPD General
Orders/Rules and Regulations and Chicago Municipal Code
are of course ultimately subordinate to)
In addition to explaining how/why they were compelled
to swap ends, who/what ultimately DID compel them to
reverse their finding of justifiable.
This would be the way overdue putting in the jackpot of those
same political powers whom the judge is trying to shield.
By putting a brick on the defense bid to call those
exempts in to give compelled testimony under oath, the
judge is trying his best to shield them.
They WILL be compelled to give up those same political
powers that the judge is trying to protect by virtue
of his "You Can't Call The Bosses In" edict.
Once the heretofore unmentioned political powers names are named
and entered into the record via compelled testimony under oath?
The asses of those same names are going to find out how hard
and uncomfortable the witness chair can be when said ass is
unwillingly plunked into it and made to sit for hours at a time,
stating their justification for overruling the justifiable finding
by the bosses who all ran and hid because they collectively were
too craven, self-interested, vile and beholden to clout to stand
by their original finding.
Hopefully, the truth will come out in another venue and the judge
himself will find HIS ass in a witness chair having to explain
himself as to why he disallowed the defense motion.
He's trying to portion and peel away something
that's very relevant to suit political ends.
Politics and pandering HAVE TAINTED this trial.
Why do you think the change in venue was so
energetically fought?
The Chicago/Cook County political powers that be
were in a panic and FEARED not being able to put their
thumb on the scales of Justice and prevent JVD any
possibility of eluding the grasp of the lynch mob.
How Baltimore burned looms large here.
And all that implies...
Protect Yourselves From THEM.
Always...
Police Like You Have No Friends.
The reporters here who are covering the case are completely slanted as well. The liberal agenda of each of them cries out in their writings. Each speak only of the side of the activist and each try to portray the defense evidence as minimalistic and
Intentionally misleading,when clearly that is wrong and misleading information. These unskilled reporters have no independent thought, but only possess and mimic the ideas and agendas of their academic handlers.
Watching the live broadcast of the training officer being questioned by Herbert. My God. What a disaster.
SHE is top notch.
Herbert on the other hand is like an unprepared teacher trying to teach a class. What a joke. Where did this guy come from? Did van Dyke or the FOP hire him out of the Yellow pages?
I am so sorry for van Dyke right now.
Judge ruled they can be called but cannot be asked why the department ruled it a good shoot.
Hite-Ross is a lead prosecutor from Winnebago County (Rockford). Her nickname is "Rick James" and if you see her you'll understand. Around Winn County she doesn't have a very good record on winning cases she handles. The defense attorneys around here smile broadly when she's gonna handle a heater case. Hopefully her track record will keep going and lose another one. Retired and living in the area.
Missed today's trial from 1230-1330. Is there a way to watch it anywhere? Any links? I didn't DVR it.
Any help is appreciated
The bosses abb nothing to the defense policy is not the law. No wonder we re screwed. Most don’t know the law or the policy
JVD was justified
all cop haters , politicians that hate the police caused this trial
laquan had a knife , officers were calling for help , he was threatening officers
that's why they had guns drawn , JVD ordered lq to halt , drop knife
he should have listened , sad but JVD is innocent
he was in fear of his life
people have been shot with rakes,pipes,cell phones,locks blah,blah, blah
listen to police verbal commands and everyone is happy
if he is guilty , then so are all exempts that signed off on it
if JVD committed murder
WTF took so long
all know he did his job
prior to 1970 auto thieves were shot
during 70's burglars were shot
Now a person with a gun , 71st and south shore neighborhood , baseball bat , knife threatening police is normal behavior for criminals
this bull crap all started in 2009 by a community organizer and his police hating administration
this makes neighborhoods that are already unsafe , worse for the poor citizens that live among the drug , gang members
Watch here if you missed it
https://youtu.be/BnrCPLP-gd8
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bottom line if bosses are not called to testify than the defense has failed Van Dyke
9/26/2018 02:59:00 AM
The bosses would only be able to speak upon the fact that they found the shooting complied with departmental guidlines. JVD is on trial for violation of state law, not CPD regulations. Their testimony would be irrelevant.
The female “reporter” commenting on CLTV is a disgrace. She has no legal background, and definitely has no knowledge
of police procedure. Not to mention that most of her stupid remarks are wild guesses.
Even if the exempts don’t testify, can’t their judgements that it was justified be used as evidence?
Would love to see the reaction when certain groups announce: ‘We is shut down the Dan Ryan and Outer Drive-now We is shutting down the Chicago Marathon til the north side feels our pain!’ Rahm & Eddie know that ISP and Park Ridge ain’t comin’ to the rescue...’
I agree with you SCC I’ve been saying for awhile now that the defense needs to call some of the exempts who all ruled the shooting justified.
Let them explain how it was justified..... until the political winds started to blow and they were instructed to reverse course.
First of all the judge ruled they can’t be called to talk about it but beyond that I don’t think it would look good under cross examination with the State using the word coverup in front of the jury. Why Pete that seed in their minds if they don’t have it already?? I think it’s good they aren’t being called. Although I would love to hear them explain it as well it’s not a good idea.
9/26/2018 12:01:00 PM
Really, attack another officer?
Off LV is a good officer
She got rattled by the prosecution and her responses looked personal not professional. Im guessing she doesn't have much experience on the stand. Learning to control your response in court room testimony is not taught in the academy (except some video) It is a talent that you either have or you learn through experience. It is why the city settles BS frivolous lawsuits and why offenders are often found not guilty. A smart ass, or flip answer can sway a jury against your case. That and body language speak loudly about how you feel about the case your involved. There really needs to be more emphasis on court room testimony along with pretrial preparation. How many times officers go to a pretrial prep and don't pay attention is horrible. The ASA and corporation counsel suck in general (only a few good ones). But in a lot cases we don't help ourselves.
L.V. if your reading this don't feel bad, it isn't easy, unless your on the sidelines or playing Monday morning quarter back.
Blogger The Song Remains The Same said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How did that animation help JVD?! I was expecting some unforseen movement or gesture before he opened fire.
Yes, McDonald closed the distance; but so did JVD.
9/26/2018 01:30:00 AM
JVD is ALLOWED to close the distance to make a legal arrest.
Did JVD use good judgment by closing the distance? That's a matter of opinion.
Was this homicide???
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Wrong. It WAS a homicide it was NOT a murder
Why the fuck hasn’t the defense appealed two of the judges rulings first change of venue second calling exempt as witnesses. How can a defense have a fair trial without being able to call exempt officers that justified the shooting can someone please chime in.
Anonymous said...
Missed today's trial from 1230-1330. Is there a way to watch it anywhere? Any links? I didn't DVR it.
Any help is appreciated
It's on YouTube. Just type in Van dyke trial.
Been following the trial. Looks like the defense will rest on Monday or Tuesday. Judgement maybe Wednesday or Thursday. Good luck. God bless JVD.
Whats interesting is there seemed too be lack of supervision at the scene of the Laquan shooting??? Not trying too point fingers or put blame anywhere but for as long as this went it seemed that the street cops were the only ones there???
I have been watching a lot of the live coverage - not all of it but a lot - I think the animation gave a non police officer like me a completely different perspective of the dynamic between JVD and LM than the dashcam video does. I think it helped JVDs case very very much - at least that's my opinion and I really hope the jury's as well.
And the AA female prosecutor embarrassed herself during her cross of the animation/laser guy.
I wish the officer the very best!!
More preparations
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23861/heres-what-that-commando-laden-uh-60-black-hawk-was-doing-whipping-around-chicago-today
The trial can be watched on the Law and Crime Network channel on youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz8K1occVvDTYDfFo7N5EZw
WGN news at nine, kept showing photo of LM in a graduation cap & gown...
Not anywhere near enough coppers signing up for the Marathon. I say we ALL say no, it's blood money. Make them give us double time or pound sand, it's a shitty awful day.
Anonymous said...
Heard the reporter on CLTV saying she has an ex marine friend who told her that police are taught to shoot to wound. And that only the military is taught to shoot center mass. She wouldn't let it go, even after being politely told her friend was wrong.
9/26/2018 08:25:00 AM
That dried up old hag is out of her white guilt ridden liberal mind, she must have repeated a thousand times during the trial coverage that LMcD was a black teen shot and killed by a white Police officer, nevers mentions a knife or any of the other heinous shit he did...
On the exempts who ruled it a good shooting being called:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/laquanmcdonald/ct-met-laquan-mcdonald-jason-van-dyke-court-20180530-story.html
Did you hear the truck driver Laquan tried to stab him!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Scc the judge already ruled the bosses can’t be asked ! How about a post about it ? Why is nobody talking about this ?
9/26/2018 12:14:00 AM
Flores is affecting his decisions told him the bosses can't be asked he must recuse motion for mistrial!
Anonymous said...
Judge ruled they can be called but cannot be asked why the department ruled it a good shoot.
9/26/2018 02:20:00 PM
Then this judge is a tool and nothing more than player following orders. And they make him out to be such a stand up guy. I don't understand this, did he or anyone else ever explain why they can't be asked such questions? That completely takes them off the hook and they should have to explain why they called it a good shoot. But they are special and protected from the storm.
In my opinion Officer LV should be very embarrassed by her testimony. It made her look like a lazy fool. She didn't want to get caught up in it, she just wanted lunch and to go home, as it was near the end of their tour. Great attitude there. I'm not sure why they even put her on given they had to know pretty much the rubbish she would say. It certainly didn't do anything to help their case.
Neither the defense nor the prosecutors seem top notch to me. I don't think they have done a very good job for JVD. Hite-Ross is certainly the weakest link on the other side.
Sir, I have not seen any rebroadcasts of the trial, you didn't really miss that much in that one hour.
I did think the guy at the trucking place was convincing as to the danger of McDonald. Pity this guy didn't speak English well enough to really expound on what happened in greater detail. But he did say McDonald looked deranged. The prosecutors made a point by saying this guy defended himself with just a mobile phone and some dirt/gravel. I think the defense should have come back and reiterated that the only reason McDonald retreated and left was due to him knowing the police were coming and very close. But they didn't reaffirm that point.
Missed today's trial from 1230-1330. Is there a way to watch it anywhere? Any links? I didn't DVR it.
Any help is appreciated
9/26/2018 03:24:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4H5y-_rk8&ab_channel=LadyJustice2188
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Judge ruled they can be called but cannot be asked why the department ruled it a good shoot.
9/26/2018 02:20:00 PM
Then this judge is a tool and nothing more than player following orders. And they make him out to be such a stand up guy. I don't understand this, did he or anyone else ever explain why they can't be asked such questions? That completely takes them off the hook and they should have to explain why they called it a good shoot. But they are special and protected from the storm.
---
If you want the exempts to testify it was a good shoot then you have to have them certified as experts. Only experts can give opinion at trial. The exempts are not on trial here. I get it, you want them in BIG TROUBLE, but this is not the forum for that. Good ruling by the judge.
The video game recreation does not show Laquand jinking as he did, right and then left toward Van Dyke. It also does not have LaQuand's hand movements , starting with him pulling up his pants , and then also appearing to reach into his pockets and waistband several times in the last 50 feet or so of his travel. It does noth have the vehicles , the darkness the shadows and flashing lights which would all make it difficult for the officer to really see what Laquand had in his hands and also greatly intefering with JVD's perception those last 20 seconds or so when he was in site of the subject. They need to have a recreation thaty includes Laquands movements and also a repeat of that adding the darkess, flashing lights and shadows. What was presented was lousy computer animation of 20-30 years ago. And not including any movement other than Laquand moving in a straight line is pretty pathetic for whatever 5 figure money they spent . It is about 1/4 of the movement animation and hardly lighting issues it should have.
In my opinion Officer LV should be very embarrassed by her testimony. It made her look like a lazy fool. She didn't want to get caught up in it, she just wanted lunch and to go home, as it was near the end of their tour. Great attitude there. I'm not sure why they even put her on given they had to know pretty much the rubbish she would say. It certainly didn't do anything to help their case.
--
I didn't catch her testimony. If that is what she said I agree. Fucking embarrassing, but typical.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The female “reporter” commenting on CLTV is a disgrace. She has no legal background, and definitely has no knowledge
of police procedure. Not to mention that most of her stupid remarks are wild guesses.
9/26/2018 05:28:00 PM
Julie Unruh? She's actually a WGN reporter.
Not a lawyer, just a retired cop asking:
I don't understand why the Exempts testimony is forbidden by the judge.
The exempts are experts in police work.
Their opinions that this was a good, legal shooting are valuable to the defense.
I hope this is resolved if there is an appeal and retrial.
“Off LV is a good officer ....She got rattled by the prosecution and her responses looked personal not professional. Im guessing she doesn't have much experience on the stand”....
Are you kidding me??!! Have you even worked with her?! She is and has always been a lazy officer at best. She should be driving a bus instead of wearing a badge. I was not surprised by her answers as it demonstrated her priorities. I have worked with her for years and nothing has changed. And the reason she was horrible on the stand and doesn’t have any experience testifying is because she has never done anything her whole career. As a fellow female officer. I’m embarrassed to work with her, and more so now.
The bosses would only be able to speak upon the fact that they found the shooting complied with departmental guidlines. JVD is on trial for violation of state law, not CPD regulations. Their testimony would be irrelevant.
The exempts are "experts" in all areas of police work,
including use of force, protection of a crime scene and
first aid for an offender, ect, etc, etc.
Our regulations & policies are more strict than state law.
They approved the shooting.
They should state in open court, in their expert opinion,
why the shooting was justified.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a lawyer, just a retired cop asking:
I don't understand why the Exempts testimony is forbidden by the judge.
The exempts are experts in police work.
Their opinions that this was a good, legal shooting are valuable to the defense.
I hope this is resolved if there is an appeal and retrial.
9/27/2018 11:09:00 AM
I hope there is no appeal or retrial. I hope there is no need for that and that he is not convicted. As far as the appeal. Judge G does not want to get the case turned on appeal so I’m sure he has grounds for making that decision
Anonymous said...
"If you want the exempts to testify it was a good shoot then you have to have them certified as experts. Only experts can give opinion at trial. The exempts are not on trial here. I get it, you want them in BIG TROUBLE, but this is not the forum for that. Good ruling by the judge."
9/27/2018 08:28:00 AM
Anonymous said...
Not a lawyer, just a retired cop asking:
I don't understand why the Exempts testimony is forbidden by the judge.
The exempts are experts in police work.
Their opinions that this was a good, legal shooting are valuable to the defense.
I hope this is resolved if there is an appeal and retrial.
9/27/2018 11:09:00 AM
Well shit...
If the former exempts weren't qualified to
be "Subject Matter Experts" in the realm
of Policing, what the actual fuck qualified
them to be "Exempts" in the first damned place?
The judge is running protection for them
and their political sponsors...
Can't have all the right people being made
to sit in the witness chair to defend the
initial determination of justified and to
justify the later reversal.
...Anything to keep Rahm Emanuel from
having to give compelled testimony under oath
as the pressure to reverse the initial finding
came from HIM and HIS staff.
"Rahm's not on trial here!"
The fuck he ain't...
This whole proceeding is a big, nasty,
ugly, brutal shit-flinging proxy war.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
9/26/2018 12:01:00 PM
Really, attack another officer?
Off LV is a good officer
She got rattled by the prosecution and her responses looked personal not professional. Im guessing she doesn't have much experience on the stand. Learning to control your response in court room testimony is not taught in the academy (except some video) It is a talent that you either have or you learn through experience. It is why the city settles BS frivolous lawsuits and why offenders are often found not guilty. A smart ass, or flip answer can sway a jury against your case. That and body language speak loudly about how you feel about the case your involved. There really needs to be more emphasis on court room testimony along with pretrial preparation. How many times officers go to a pretrial prep and don't pay attention is horrible. The ASA and corporation counsel suck in general (only a few good ones). But in a lot cases we don't help ourselves.
L.V. if your reading this don't feel bad, it isn't easy, unless your on the sidelines or playing Monday morning quarter back.
You are worried about a comment about an officer who on the stand testified after receiving a call, as she described it a “hot call” like a man with a gun or officer needs help and has been listening to the radio about the incident. Then gets into an argument with her partner because he wants to respond and she wants to go to dinner. Go to dinner when a fellow officer needs help? That your idea of a good officer? This department is in deep trouble if that is a description of a good officer.
As a fellow female officer. I’m embarrassed to work with her, and more so now.
9/27/2018 02:21:00 PM
Another superstar that doesn't get the point. If it were you I would support you too. This isn't the time or place to slam another officer. There are enough people that hate the police. We don't need to hate each other.
Another superstar that doesn't get the point. If it were you I would support you too. This isn't the time or place to slam another officer. There are enough people that hate the police. We don't need to hate each other.
If I called for help and an officer didn’t want to come and chose dinner over my safety, I would never support that officer and you are an a__hole if you do. Next time you need help, don’t call me, call her and hope she has a partner that wants to come
said...
As a fellow female officer. I’m embarrassed to work with her, and more so now.
9/27/2018 02:21:00 PM
Another superstar that doesn't get the point. If it were you I would support you too. This isn't the time or place to slam another officer. There are enough people that hate the police. We don't need to hate each other.
9/27/2018 07:52:00 PM
Officer L.V.
SHOULD be terminated for cowardice
with her testimony used as evidence
against her.
But then again, her's is the kind of response
that the progressives, the SJWs, the community
and the media deeply desires from all Police.
They don't want "Warrior Cops" who hear these
kinds of calls and come flying in with the much
needed assertiveness and aggression to quickly
take on and take down society-hating miscreants.
They want The Police to hesitate and give the
miscreant time to express himself then fulfill
the much anticipated "duty to retreat" until
said miscreant lays down and goes to sleep
or is finally hugged into submission by Police
Social Workers instead of miscreant immediately
getting his ass kicked until he submits and THEN
is taken into secure custody to get the ALL the
help he needs.
Hiring the small, the weak, the timid and the soft,
(physically, mentally, emotionally) has been deliberately
done to dilute the native assertiveness, aggression, street
smarts and yes, combativeness of Chicago Coppers.
"Why can't Cops be MORE empathetic/sympathetic/nice
instead of being so... Well... So?"
Because Policing is a nasty, dangerous, unpredictable
shit-doo-doo job that not everyone can do?
He's dead, Jim.
What difference, now, does it make?
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