We Don't Need SWAT
So the ugly truth behind how incapable Chicago is of countering a terror attack is laid bare:
- Terrorist incidents. Hostage situations. Dangerous suspects. The Chicago Police Department’s SWAT team responds to some of the city’s most volatile situations. Chicago, unlike most big cities, doesn’t staff its SWAT team around the clock. Instead it relies on members to respond during their off-hours. Now WGN Investigates has learned some members of the SWAT team are refusing to respond to those calls to protest the department’s practices.
So the CPD basic plan is "pray nothing happens" and then runs with it. This operating on the cheap has been a problem for years, but Special Ed's response to it is truly eye opening:
- "We don't need SWAT to keep us safe."
That seems like a directive to "Stay Fetal" right from the top.
So a cranky client takes a dozen hostages at a downtown law firm on the 10th floor? Maybe some madman decides to shoot up a synagogue? A gunman holed up in a school? First Responders are outside, safe, away from the gunfire. It isn't good news for the teachers and kids, but hey, Special Ed says, "We don't need SWAT to keep us safe."
In case anyone missed the sarcasm, we aren't saying don't go in - we know most cops would be in the door, SWAT or not, attempting to save lives. But going into a hot scene without the proper equipment and firepower is going to end with a body count....including cops.
Time to resign Ed.
So a cranky client takes a dozen hostages at a downtown law firm on the 10th floor? Maybe some madman decides to shoot up a synagogue? A gunman holed up in a school? First Responders are outside, safe, away from the gunfire. It isn't good news for the teachers and kids, but hey, Special Ed says, "We don't need SWAT to keep us safe."
In case anyone missed the sarcasm, we aren't saying don't go in - we know most cops would be in the door, SWAT or not, attempting to save lives. But going into a hot scene without the proper equipment and firepower is going to end with a body count....including cops.
Time to resign Ed.
Labels: dumb ideas, un-fucking-believable
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
181 Comments:
Ed isn’t wrong tho is he?? I mean the swat guys for as elite as they think they are, aren’t really that special or anymore capable than a savvy beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego. It’s just a group of the wanna be vet-bro types. The county HBT guys make our guys look like ppos. Who remembers the swat competition our guys went to and came in 30 out of 31...with 31 being a forfeited team??
What an unprofessional dimwit .
The best part of all of this is every single new training from force mitigation to use of force refresher is take time and call swat to get the tools a we probably need but can’t be trusted to take out. In a realistic world, what in reality is going to be a split second decision, they expect you to wait two hours. Come on, this can’t be the best out city has to offer. When seconds count, we’re hours away.
Ed ran us in to the ground from the get go and should have never been made Superintendent. Who cares anymore, I sure don’t.
Yes SWAT is needed. But you authorize paying that group 24 7 pay? Why not get ncrease the numbers and assign shift
What the department needs to do is create a carbine unit who’s sole responsibility is to patrol high threat areas like business district, airports etc., and be readily available at a moments notice. There are many rifle trained cops who own their own rifle and are up to date with certification. Have them pass the power test every 6 months, shoot every other month, put them in 10 or 12 hour days and the city will have an immediate response team at all times. If the situation arises they can secure the area for SWAT to arrive and negotiate. We do need SWAT but we also need teams patrolling sensitive areas. I believe New York and a few other cites have these teams.
Let’s be honest, SWAT does nothing more than surround the perimeter and wait for the offender to get tired and come out.
A couple of beat cars can do the same thing, without take-home cars and fancy equipment and training.
Not to mention, during an actual active-shooter, beat cars and units will be the ones handling the shit anyways. Look at all of these incidents that have been happening nationwide- there’s been no time to wait for the wait-em-out guys in green to mobilize. It’s street guys doing the best they can and getting the job done. How about additional training for the everyday street guys? We’ve only been begging for it for years.
Chicago SWAT, highly trained in the art of standing around and hoping the offender gets bored and gives up before hurting more innocent people.
This administration (Rahm & Ed) have done everything they can do to destroy this Department, I will spare you the litany as you already know. So now in off hours you can make the decision at an incident do we wait a very long time for SWAT to respond or do we handle it ourselves. Either way you will be blamed if something goes wrong. Maybe this mindset will be applied to other specialized units, maybe even the DD. Hey why do you need detectives working midnights when everything can wait till morning. Some small departments do just that. It will like the TV police series where the officer gets a call or page that he has to get in to work as something major has happened. Maybe this is where they got the idea! Lets do more with less, yes that always works, yea right!
When some major incident occurs in the rest of the country like terrorism, mass shootings etc. Chicago always responds with, there is no credible threat in Chicago but we are increasing patrols. Some day they will get caught with their pants down. Can't believe Ed is still touting the party (Dem.) line for lame duck Rahm. Have some courage challenge him for the sake of the members of the CPD and the citizens. We need a roll call of the aldermen what is their position on this. Are they representing what their constituents want?
Old psych-workshop taught us that we are not here to die for this job or anyone else.
Family taught us we should die for family and country.
Military taught us to access...and if we are out gunned, then don't try to be John Wayne...reposition, don't give up our position of cover and wait for reinforcements. Then attack.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
But hey, run in like an undisciplined and untrained movie actor and the Superintendent himself will tell your family, "He was a brave cop".
Good job Ed!!! Tell’em
OT Well I guess it's official Mendoza is running for mayor, some 14th ward worker came to my home on the west end of 008 last night asking me to sign her nominating petition. Also who is this p.o . from 002 RW running for mayor? Says he's been on the job for 19yrs and also is a pastor.
Lets save some more money the firefighters could respond from home just like those volunteer & small town fire depts. They get the call at home or at their work and they dash off to the emergency. Don't laugh the city is probably already thinking along those lines. Just call them when they need them. Why pay them for sitting in the firehouse. The city is going to need to cut costs to support the illegal aliens that they want to populate our sanctuary city.
POOR ED
he is treading water.
The man has a limited capacity and should have never went above sergeant.
Add the fact that he is on some heavy MEDS and you got a powder keg.
He surrounded himself with merits who can barely stop kid riots in the 002 district
or pass any kind of promotion test.
So bring on the FENNER to solve this RAHMBELINA hiding video type problems.
I was never in K-9 but I seem to remember the City did not want to pay the K-9 officer for the upkeep of the dog in some manner that lived with them. I think the City finally settled up.
Hate to tell you but Supt is right. SWAT is full of babies. Fulfill the job requirements or go back to the watch. You may disagree with the City operating plans, but to disregard your phone and not respond to emergencies is pathetic. You guys are a joke.
" . . we aren't saying don't go in - we know most cops would be in the door, SWAT or not"
-----------------
Huh.. me and by 6 shot revolver will stay outside waiting for SWAT.
I have NO specialized tactical training to go up against 1 or several more offenders who MAY have rifles.
I always got time and there is always someone who can make a coffee run in our district.
No he Didn't just way that! ... WTF!!!
Anonymous said...
Speaking of asswipes , a certain Lt. who is in charge of the ponies doesn't seem too interested in his other duties at the marine unit. The marine unit needs a full time Lt. who will address the real issues there , mainly the lack of leadership and manpower on the biggest municipality on the Great Lakes. Every watch can barely man a 4 man crew on a daily basis due to an incompetent sgt. who depleted every watch with a bullshit training program. Shit has to change soon or more exposed scandels will follow !
11/03/2018 10:13:00 AM
Maybe this is why a recent Sgt who was there forever as a Sgt and a PO left. Has had enough of the nonsense there.
Special Ed will be safe and sound downtown. Do you think he cares what happens at the scene? There will be plenty of intermediaries to sacrifice if and when it all goes to shit. Most of the white shirts will be white and perfectly acceptable sacrifices too.
these fuckers are so lucky nothing ever happened around here. special ed is correct in his assessment. the bigger picture is who the fuck needs you asshole? are you the superintendent or should the 9 digit midget be fitted with plenty of stars and fruit salad like gadaffi? chicago along with portland needs the police departments stripped from mayoral control. screw loose democrats want CPD under a consent decree of their own making? this is the twilight zone.
Special Ed trying to form another MSF. Meeting with troops this week.
read the active shooter order.
One of our own arrested in 016.
Ed isn’t wrong tho is he?? I mean the swat guys for as elite as they think they are, aren’t really that special or anymore capable than a savvy beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego. It’s just a group of the wanna be vet-bro types. The county HBT guys make our guys look like ppos. Who remembers the swat competition our guys went to and came in 30 out of 31...with 31 being a forfeited team??
_______
Was that when the number 2 in charge of swat shot one of the safety officers wearing a neon out of play vest repeatedly with simunitions? And the one day a year he trains, he keeps shooting other swat guys. Hahahaha, and now they are thinking of making him the training sgt again to hide him because he is such a train wreck. Ed, you want to know why swat is so fucked up. Look at the top. Be the change, no sorry meant it's time for a change.
What the city does not need is a last place SWAT team. Ed was right. Bet they never enter another competition to prove to all how incompetent they are. Merit leadership and middle management gets you this result. Better hope you never get a situation where real action, not wasting is called for. Then you will see how poorly trained and prepared SWAT is. A bunch of ego maniacs in camo. Every time they show up I LOL.
Anonymous said...
Ed isn’t wrong tho is he?? I mean the swat guys for as elite as they think they are, aren’t really that special or anymore capable than a savvy beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego. It’s just a group of the wanna be vet-bro types. The county HBT guys make our guys look like ppos. Who remembers the swat competition our guys went to and came in 30 out of 31...with 31 being a forfeited team??
Lmao you lost me when you brought up county guys. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. I've worked around them during my time with county sand they couldn't find their ass with both hands.
Unfortunately we are seeing what happens when the city continues to run specialized units the “CPD” way. Low clearance in the D unit, swat not quit ready for prime time and when was the last time you actually saw an ET on scene at a regular burglary or other non-newsworthy incident. Special ed is just telling the truth as he knows it. He still gets paid and still gets to pretend he’s a hot shot big city police boss so he doesn’t give a fuck. He is the personification of what is wrong with CPD. He is a clown.
He can make his wife cmdr of SWAT. She seems qualified with that high test score and all.
Sarc off.
Hey 01:44, The PO RW from 002 that's running for Mayor is a POS. Has 19 years of being a dog-ass. He ran for Alderman maybe 10 years ago. Video tapes himself talking shit about the Police instead of supporting his brothers/sisters and the job that has supported his life style. The POS was either IOD or on the Medical and was caught working his secondary job. That POS was always nowhere in attendance during a 10-1. Ask anyone that remember him from midnight in 025.
The God awful truth about our SWAT unit is that they are all pathetic. Time after time, in competition with other SWAT units, the CPD SWAT unit comes in last place.
And get sued by Lovey & Loevy LLP regardless if you are a hero that
There are many rifle trained cops who own their own rifle and are up to date with certification. Have them pass the power test every 6 months, shoot every other month
Whoa Whoa Whoa! Just who do you think is going to pay for that??
Hate to tell you but Supt is right. SWAT is full of babies. Fulfill the job requirements or go back to the watch. You may disagree with the City operating plans, but to disregard your phone and not respond to emergencies is pathetic. You guys are a joke.
I don't understand the hate toward SWAT. Superintendent is wrong. They should be paid more because they do more and it's a unit where you must pass numerous tests. Babies? What the city is doing to them is outrageous.
Hats off to them for sticking up for themselves and sticking together. I bet they get the changes they're demanding and they deserve. Officers city wide should take note as they can't even stop doing activity for one day to make a point.
To the civilians reading this, here is another serious example of your exorbitant tax dollars in this democratic socialist utopia NOT at work. Arm and train yourselves. YOU might be the last defense against some nut shooting up your workplace or your kids' school. And to the coppers saying they won't go in, I pray someday you don't have to.
No SWAT no sweat, just wait for Special Ed to show up and lead the charge into a building held by a few miscreants with rifles and shotguns. For some reason the police aren't even trusted to have shotguns in there cars let alone rifles and training is a joke. For all of you coppers that don't like SWAT how would you like to be on call 24/7 ??? What is needed is more SWAT members not less so that response times wouldn't depend on how fast they can respond from home. Of course that would depend on finding enough volunteers who can make the cut.
Ed doesn't need SWAT to keep him safe, he has Nakia. Please ignore the other post. Spell check fail.
Well, gee Ed, nothing like admitting right there you don’t have your officers backs
I know countless guys who passed the SWAT test only to be put at the bottom of a list they kept recycling so they could get the juice baby's in first. Who'd want to be a member of that clout heavy suckfest?
""" Anonymous Anonymous said...
What the department needs to do is create a carbine unit who’s sole responsibility is to patrol high threat areas like business district, airports etc., and be readily available at a moments notice. There are many rifle trained cops who own their own rifle and are up to date with certification. Have them pass the power test every 6 months, shoot every other month, put them in 10 or 12 hour days and the city will have an immediate response team at all times. If the situation arises they can secure the area for SWAT to arrive and negotiate. We do need SWAT but we also need teams patrolling sensitive areas. I believe New York and a few other cites have these teams.
11/04/2018 01:11:00 AM"""""
Yeah but they might shoot someone patrolling around with those carbines. If you don't have them then the Police wont be shooting anyone. You see you have to put yourself in the mind set of the imbeciles running this show, it does make a certain sense.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
But hey, run in like an undisciplined and untrained movie actor and the Superintendent himself will tell your family, "He was a brave cop".
I never could understand why former “military” act like policing and military are the same when it come to reaction. The only similarity is mindset. In the military you have a mission and train for that specific mission, whatever it may be at that time. Policing you have seconds and no set mission or objective. In the military you have intel and intel units. You have heavy firepower, support units, constant training until mission time. You are scenario based training. This is very similar to federal agencies.
You’re an asshole If you think policing to the military and believe they are similar. Either an asshole, dillusional, or extremely young. Get some experience on the street as a beat cop then compare the two.
CPD
War on Terror Vet
Just wait for the one time you do need SWAT. Then watch all of the blaming and questions.
Wow
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Old psych-workshop taught us that we are not here to die for this job or anyone else.
Family taught us we should die for family and country.
Military taught us to access...and if we are out gunned, then don't try to be John Wayne...reposition, don't give up our position of cover and wait for reinforcements. Then attack.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
But hey, run in like an undisciplined and untrained movie actor and the Superintendent himself will tell your family, "He was a brave cop".
11/04/2018 01:32:00 AM"
I understand the sentiment, and somewhat agree, but the days of waiting outside for SWAT or backup to arrive are OVER. If there is an active shooter in a school the brass and public demand that you, hopefully with a good partner, immediately enter the building and engage the shooter. If not, yes, you will be alive, but will be crucified and most likely lose your job. I'm sorry, but things changed drastically for the police after Columbine.
Well Eddie and the high ranks are just making the SWAT unit into the old HBT unit.
As an old wheel gun guy I worked HBT. And I left it since the Department always used us but never compensated us.
We were a tactical unit that was assigned to all sorts of events or situations . We had to go to training, called out to problems.
But when it was over no one wanted to pay or give us time off. They could not man a 24 hour period with HBT
So I see SWAT being reduced in manpower to save funds.
Even the mounted and K-9 units have better rotations. And are compensated under contract.
Hell I know it’s cold and wet on top of that horse but they get time to groom travel and sit post. And are under contract
HBT was a bastard step child. But not needed when the shit hit the fan.
So now it’s SWAT and they are doing the same thing.
The Bean counters are running this circus and sooner or later it’s going to hit the fan.
Someone will be hurt or DIE.
If you have a barricaded subject and a swat team with only 4 or 8 swat guys show up.
Shut the Unit down clean house and restaff the unit.
Many years later I have been assigned to special unit and given a Department cell phone.
It rings while I am home off duty and I just ignore it. Sorry but it’s in contract not to respond.
I have just 2 months to go. And off to retirement
Enjoy this crap boys and girls. It has not changed in over 30 years. And it will not the way the CPD is running it.
Next to go should be K-9 Explosives detection. Another farce costing taxpayers untold $$$. They have never found anything explosive in this city yet. Explosives detection K-9's need to regularly train to remain useful. Training here on average is less than an hour a week. With virtually no trainers at the city level who are qualified, training is not up to snuff. Word is they cheat to get through yearly Federal Qualifications, and bribe the Homeland Security overseers with transportation, lavish food and drink for several days.
Another dog and pony show, and the corruption is rampant, people know about it, and nothing is being said, or done.
I went through an NRA Instructors course a number of years ago. There were cops, civilians and a team of security guards from a nuclear facility not far from the training location. The training these guards get was impressive. They attend training all the time. The guards were kind of like what we cops expect when looking at guards, except when these goofs got on the firing line, they operated as a team and displayed remarkable proficiency in their skills. One of the guys told me that they trained with the local PD's Swat Team and beat them at everything. I have never worried for a second about our nuclear power stations after that. These guys are heavy weapons trained. They aren't a bunch of coppers with pistols rusjing in without a predetermined plan. My son was on a Marine FAST unit while he was deployed. He told me of the training and range time they got and their standards. It was impressive, regular and extensive. And shit could still go south.
A SWAT team is an expensive toy that if you want it to function properly requires an investment of money and time I don't believe Chicago is willing to expend. I guess the city doesn't want to spend the money to have a team or two of these available in an emergency.
World Class City my ass. It's embarrassing to those of us that know the truth.
If something happens, call the FBI, maybe they can help.
What did you expect coming from the Superintendent.
This was the guy that did not apply for the job.
Has no experience let alone command authority.
But got the job anyway.........
Harry Callahan said it best,
“ A man has to know his limitations “
Some lawyer types should look to see if there is any way to take control of the police away from local political control, find a deep pocket to sue the issue in federal court all the way to the supreme court. With a 5 to 4 conservative vs idiot ratio, who knows?
This is the FIRST TIME 'your accidental superintendent" was asked a "serious" question,this is his response and behind the scene this is how he runs CPD....WHEEEEZZZZEEEE was so pissed with his comment that she went into the station to take 4 hours on the end until she realized it was he day off....Unreal
Ed is useless and dangerous and should have resigned many months ago. He has NO shame.
Murder suicide at a recent swat call out for barricaded armed subject at a domestic. Swat stayed outside even after he shot victim and texted pics of her. They let her bleed to death over 6 hours before he killed himself. They never went in to conduct the hostage rescue. Hope her family sues the elite team.
Only one solution to fix SWAT............Mr Fenner must promote Mrs Fenner to be head of SWAT.
Sleep tight my babies
In case anyone missed the sarcasm, we aren't saying don't go in - we know most cops would be in the door, SWAT or not, attempting to save lives. But going into a hot scene without the proper equipment and firepower is going to end with a body count....including cops.
Time to resign Ed.
These brave coppers have either retired or died already, with the exception of corruption the department is no longer the same..
Start with their sergeants, bunch of weirdos.
Somebody always mentions the sweet competition from 10 years ago. There may be 5 guys still on the team from back then. Much better cqb skills and way more physically capable personnel nowadays.
I recall when I was following the OJ Simpson trial. I was in homicide at the time and saw our crime lab work a murder scene plenty of times. No disrespect to our lab techs, but what they did in Chicago at the time was pale in comparison to the LAPD, and the the LAPD took it on the chin for very poor scene processing. I retired 10 years ago and it has improved in this department, but still is no where near what it should be. As always, the city wants to do everything on the cheap and it always comes back to bite them in the ass and the cops then look like fools through no fault of their own.
Show SWAT respond to Any event in this city- the Active Shooter will immediately be given more rights than our very own...
Known many of the SWAT guys for years. They are some of the best people on this department. They care and truly want the unit and teams to be the best our department could ask for. Others within unit including some bosses, not so much. I’d say it’s one thing or another that has led to this situation, but it’s plenty from not answering the calls for scene response to poor management including psycho training Sgt’s etc, but our department needs a SWAT team. Look at recent events and consider the trends from PA to TX etc and you will get more guys killed without a SWAT team.
The simple fix is to make three watches for coverage but that’ll require a lot more guys run through training by same crazy Sgt. A better option is to install bosses that don’t care about promotions and just want to make teams better. Either way...it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Again Special Ed is stuck towing the lame duck Rahms company line. Ed is either a complete moron, a complete liar, or just doesn’t give a shit. Any of these are a indication that Ed is no longer capable of properly performing the duties of superintendent. A city the size of Chicago needs a full time, around the clock (sorry primadona swat guys there needs to be a midnight shift) 24/7/365 team always in the go, if you want to be the elite. Or like some other swat teams in big cities you switch to a 12 hour shift to cover the 24 hours, then you bid against your team for furlough. This will get in the regular training needed to be elite, will keep a team ready to respond in a timely manner (sorry guys, the on call from home does not compare time wise to a team on duty). Then you keep a on-call system that rotates a group that responds if needed. That is a swat team the city needs and deserves.
The comparison to the suburban swat is not even on the same level. They have a swat team called NIPAS that is a group of suburban departments that donate a guy or agree to send a guy when needed. It is in no way a full time swat team. Having many suburban friends who have witnessed nipas, it sounds like they respond within a couple hours, but most times the incident is resolved. There have been a couple incidents that a standoff required the nipas equipment that has justified all the spending, but I have heard if it’s serious and urgent most suburbs call ISP SWAT or Cook County Sheriffs Police SWAT, both groups are highly respectable and proficient at the jobs.
CPD needs to get on board and eep a team ready at all times, thier is homeland security grant money available to assist in maintaining a SWAT team for a city the size of Chicago. Wake up Ed, before your left explaining another Rahm disaster.
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Ed isn’t wrong tho is he?? I mean the swat guys for as elite as they think they are, aren’t really that special or anymore capable than a savvy beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego. It’s just a group of the wanna be vet-bro types. The county HBT guys make our guys look like ppos. Who remembers the swat competition our guys went to and came in 30 out of 31...with 31 being a forfeited team??
11/04/2018 12:26:00 AM
Give it a break already, that was over a decade ago. If you ever competed in anything tactical or shooting you would know that if you don’t know the course of fire or the drill and trained for them both repeatedly you are not going to do well. This was their first competition and didn’t know what to expect. I know it’s always the same person that brings this up anytime swat comes up on the blog, I think I know who you are, knock it off already, you were dumped for a good reason, stop being sour about it and move on with your live.
Tough day when head of the Police Department declares the citizens and SWAT are all expendable. Like every unit in CPD- SWAT is clout heavy and unsupported. Only CAPS and Diversity whatever seems to be fully manned....and the very top heavy org chart speaks to part of the problem---too many useless Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, XO and not enough workers (coupled with poor allocation of the manpower on hand---35th street still got many full duty in jobs which should be civilianized).
Typical administrator in this new age of policing with less. Great leader of men and a great inspiration to his troops. Jesus, with comments like this, no wonder moral is in the tank!
If the unit has no backing from the city, no support from the department, and is staffed with personnel who refuse to respond when needed while off duty then it needs to be disbanded.
He’s right. As presently organized and staffed, SWAT is useless. Time to start over.
Sorry to say but with the temperature out there regarding the police, SWAT is not a killing team.Negotiations are the first step in an incident.Check with any department and none will say that deadly force is the way to go. You people who comment watch too much TV.every department supplies cars to Swat. Chicago should have SWAT working around the clock for sure and every district should have a few rifle equipped cars each watch but then many coppers would think they are qualified to handle a potential job. I served in the old HBT team and the thinking was that numbers showed that manpower wasn't needed around the clock. But times have changed and Lt. Lamb is a decent guy but has no business being the guy to lead. Sgt.Hroma is too into himself to lead. The unit needs a grounded person to lead. SWAT is needed in Chicago along with every district training a district respond team 24-7.
As mentioned we are very fortunate that no horrific event has happened here. In order to be pull off such a caper you would think these assholes look for places that are softer and a bit easier to wreak havoc in. Special-Ed Ed just gave an open invitation. As if you working police don't deal with enough truly fucked up shit each day this nit-wit is going to say this.
To quote a favorite blogger, truly un-fucking believable.
Be safe and,
FREE JVD
Quite a few misfits on that team who were dog asses as patrolmen.
Let’s get serious, SWAT is not needed and should be disbanded at once.
No Confidence march, we did it for Weiss who now looking back was a heck of lot more capable/respected than this "leader"
Don't Baby Cline and "Greek Fire" Spiro have enough experience? Let 'em run the Department now for Gawd's sake.
We don’t need a pandering, nepotist, cop-hating, racist superintendent. Actually, I’d say we don’t need anyone on the job that displays any of those qualities. Until we straighten out the buddy-based system so ingrained in all facets of Chicago’s public sector from politics, to courts, to government, we will have the same problems. I’m not holding my breath. SWAT is necessary but the stories of buddy system selection for SWAT ring true. SWAT is also treated like a detail unit at the peril of being effective at handling actual high threat incidents. Some is their fault but mostly it’s the city’s fault. We have been very lucky we haven’t experienced a coordinated terrorist attack. We all know when/if that ever happens, SWAT would be better staffed, trained and utilized...for a short period of time.
Nice post, SCC. Special Ed, you continue to be an embarrassment. How you’re able to look in the mirror or sleep at night is beyond me. You’re a true narcissist.
What the department needs to do is create a carbine unit who’s sole responsibility is to patrol high threat areas like business district, airports etc., and be readily available at a moments notice. There are many rifle trained cops who own their own rifle and are up to date with certification. Have them pass the power test every 6 months, shoot every other month, put them in 10 or 12 hour days and the city will have an immediate response team at all times. If the situation arises they can secure the area for SWAT to arrive and negotiate. We do need SWAT but we also need teams patrolling sensitive areas. I believe New York and a few other cites have these teams.
11/04/2018 01:11:00 AM
This is exactly what we need. Get rid of tact, gang teams, Saturation. Create a 24/7 unit of 600-800 officers. Patrol the violent areas and downtown but also be available to secure HBT scenes until swat arrives.
OT...Special Ed is bringing all A/N Gang, Gun, Sat, and Tact teams down to HQ this week Thursday to meet with him. Rumors are flying but no one has any clue as to what's going on. Disbanding the units? Reopening an old area? Gangs back to OCD? Lots of freaking out going on.
Chicago
Promotes
Disaster
SWAT PLAN
1. They are needed. But yes - they are usually just securing scene and waiting for the call in negotiators to provide the shit bird with a line of communication to vent and fulfill his reasonable requests until he turns himself over.
2. Increase numbers and make it a 1st / 2nd / 3rd watch - so coverage all around.
3. Do not decrease physical standards - but do reduce the Firearm requirements to 80% - you will get more people and through continued training the Firearm percentage will go up for operators who need to get better than 80%. Tactics can be taught through training if an operator is recognized as needing more.
4. Get a training sgt that will work with operators in a professional manner and not degrade in crowds to make himself seem like a bigger and best Alpha Male.
5. No take home cars possibly needed if manpower is increased around the clock.
6. SWAT support guys/vehicle guys need to merge together to decrease overtime and constant coverage of support duties.
----
This is an easy plan from a Chicago Public School guy...
Every Copper out there that has a specialty won't be used unless they have a phone call. This fucked up department runs on ass kissing, not ability. I know of many coppers that have a special talent... be it Military, computers, helicopter pilot/mechanic, musical, Bosses want nothing to do with them. Why, you ask? Because the idiots in charge of many units are suck hole know nothings and are afraid their subordinates will be way more knowledgeable than themselves.
That's why this department is so fucked up! But thats C.P.D.
No worries. The negotiators are on the way... from home in their personal cars. Along with woefully incompetent leadership.
"What the department needs to do is create a carbine unit who’s sole responsibility is to patrol high threat areas like business district, airports etc., and be readily available at a moments notice. There are many rifle trained cops who own their own rifle and are up to date with certification. Have them pass the power test every 6 months, shoot every other month, put them in 10 or 12 hour days and the city will have an immediate response team at all times. If the situation arises they can secure the area for SWAT to arrive and negotiate. We do need SWAT but we also need teams patrolling sensitive areas. I believe New York and a few other cites have these teams."
We already have it. It's called the Detail Unit. Too bad HQ doesn't want to really support it, giving them less than half the guys they need. SWAT boys should clear up their own house before throwing a fit. Stop arbitrarily disqualifying applicants in your testing, until then, enjoy being represented by the Instagram heroes Greybeard and Shinobi.
I've talked to a SWAT, the Lt. is making threats about going to three watches but of the record has told the guys that Carter doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger so it will be business as usual. Let the overtime train continue!
Eddie is the perfect example of the Peter Principle. He has sold his soul to the devil to keep his position. Actually it is sad to see him act this way. Like I said, he is the definition of the Peter Principle. I know several people who know him and they say he is one nice man. He just might be, but lets face it, he is no street Police Officer. Has anyone gone to New York City recently? In New York on almost every corner there are 3/4 man teams carrying semi-automatic rifles. Now I realize Chicago is not New York but they are trained and prepared. I ask a Police Officer what is their training and he stated that they shot several times a year in both the hand gun and rifles. They go thru in class training several times a year on various terrorist incidents. He also stated that they get intelligence briefing at the start of their tours. Here is a suggestion for Chicago: If you don't think you don't need Swat that fine but what Chicago should do is get a group of Police Officers that just patrol the 1st and 18th Districts with training in terrorist incidents. This group should be proficient in fire arms with the latest equipment for such incidents. This would cost money and that is something this city refuses to do. This city has been very lucky in that we have not been targeted yet.
Am I missing something here? How many total members are there now? Why isn't a few members of SWAT working all three watches? If something comes up there would be an initial response and other assisting members can be notified to come to the scene. How does it work now???
Supe is clueless.
Maybe the Sheriffs Dept. has some kind of special response team. Hope they decide to help out.
Since Chicago has diminished greatly in the past decade, why expect anything for a SWAT team to swat? Obamas gone. Let's hope the Obama Recreational Center is relocated to a more appropriate site, say Woodlawn. Expecting a SWAT team to "save" Hyde Park from rampaging youths of color is small potatoes. Not to mention the political hysteria which would ensue.
Give me an old time copper instead of swat. Knows how to take care of business the old fashioned way , without any fuckin around. Bosses won’t allow it because they know the outcome.
What I've learned in my 22 years on this job is that CPD was, is and will ALWAYS be royally fuckrd up, thanks to goody brassy, goofier politicians and a liberal public that doesn't care. Cant wait to run away from this epic disaster.
We don't stay outside. Training and procedure indicates we all go in. Only in the 80s and 90s did we establish perimeters and wait for swat. Now it's all about the beat cop rushing in and stopping the threat even if it means that officer losing their life to save others. So I understand where Ed might say we don't need swat. But at the same time we do not have the training or equipment to handle these incidents. Most professional police departments and swat teams train all the time for these scenarios. We get an e-learning module maybe once a year. How the hell does he expect us to handle active shooter situations where maybe one rifle is out in the streets and nobody can get the carbine training. Or you still got wheel gun old timers who think we still establish perimeters and wait for swat. And most officers are not trained in active shooter training.
But SWAT still has a purpose for hostage situations. After the beat copper that rushed in has determined he doesn't have the tools to stop a hostage situation, that's when swat comes in. SWAT is supposed to have all the training and tools (gear) to end such situations. So, we still need swat.
"Time to resign, Ed," The time has come and gone. It's time to run him and those like him out of town on a rail (but only after the community loots all the guns).
Dont do anything until COPA arrives (whose budget and manpower exceeds SWAT).
Then get permission to notify SWAT.
Some plan.
If a bunch of disgruntled jobless community organgrinders can illegally close down a major interstate, imagine what could happen to an international airport or water delivery system with the hands-off-don’t be offensive cityhall criminal and diaster response.
Remember - 21st Century Jugghead Special Ed (The Jolly Rancher Man of the Year) said “we dont need toughness”.
When we needed a Tough Cookie, we got a soggy, broken, day old cupcake.
If it's so bad, leave and go back to patrol. These are 70 or so whiners that think the Department revolves around them. Any future discussions regarding this matter should be deleted. God help us if any of these hard chargers ever have to perform any police activity.
Old psych-workshop taught us that we are not here to die for this job or anyone else.
Family taught us we should die for family and country.
Military taught us to access...and if we are out gunned, then don't try to be John Wayne...reposition, don't give up our position of cover and wait for reinforcements. Then attack.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. In other cities and states the first officers on the scene did go in and neutralize the offender.
If they had waited for SWAT it would or could have been a different story. After the Columbine school shootings, police tactics have changed. No more surrounding the school and trying to make contact with the shooter as he walks around the school murdering kids. 99% of calls of man with a gun are handled by the beat man
Went to a retirees funeral last year. Several Swat guys show up to pay their respects in their ‘Field Duty’ uniforms. Go to an HBT domestic about a week later...No Swat.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hate to tell you but Supt is right. SWAT is full of babies. Fulfill the job requirements or go back to the watch. You may disagree with the City operating plans, but to disregard your phone and not respond to emergencies is pathetic. You guys are a joke.
For decades CPD got by with hostage negotiators who would be notified and reported to the scene. They were on duty doing their normal jobs and then responded. Worked out pretty as I recall
And this the the Superintendent of a large metropolitan police department? We don't need him. He is a joke.
not a cop just a taxpayer...........
i support paying swat to be on standby.
i have seen my tax dollars wasted on complete useless BS, having swat at a moments notice is priceless to me
the superintendent is not thinking or acting with the best intentions for citizens of Chicago.
wanna save 200 million instantly? stop this phony non presidential library taxpayers of Chicago will be footing the bill for.
Vote Republican
1/04/2018 12:26:00 AM
True story
"beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego"
What's a beat cooper? Anyway I will agree with you about the burbs, we are the whipped cream on the jello!
A new mayor is coming to Chicago, don't worry... Eddie he's gone !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know we had enough of McCarthy and his New York ways but look how NYPD handles HBT, active shooter, counter terrorism, etc
.https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/bureaus/patrol/citywide-operations.page and
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/bureaus/investigative/counterterrorism.page
Mr. Wheezie has more than worn out his welcome.
Time to go Ed.... and take Wheezie with you.
CPD SWAT is a joke compared LAPD SWAT or NYPD ESU. But our guys look cool in their green uniforms. And most are too cool to talk to you unless you're a fellow elite SWAT guy
Supt. Eddie Johnson will go down as the biggest "pendejo" in the history of the Chicago Police Department.
Pendejo - A stupid or contemptible person.
Ah, Chicago. City of my misspent youth. High taxes and going higher. Most felonies are now misdemeanors. Armed robberies and car jackings seldom solved and not much of a penalty when caught. Shoplifting is not prosecuted unless over few hundred dollars. What a city.
Now the Chief of Police says we don't need a swat team. Nothing like letting the crazies know. An old axiom is: Don't signal your intentions or capabilities. You all need to put out the welcome mat for all criminals.
Ex Marquette Park Person
What’s the scoop with the 10-1 at the TBK on Harlem last night. Off duty cop arrested for battery to the police. WTF!!!
Just dupe it to the FBI and DHS HBT teams.
this coming elections, I hope someone with brains gets elected. then that person fires special ed, and demotes all the merit people. clean out the scum at the top/
With three decades on the job, the one thing I noticed, those in specialized units believe that they are entitled. These smaller and specialized units are breeding grounds for malcontents. I've always believed SWAT deserves S
D 2 pay as long as they aren't stealing O.T.
Breaking news from 010
Former Daley press secretary victim of carjacking in 010 3 in custody.
Ot, can we do away with sideline reporters at football games, they are so annoying
...I remember SWAT clearing a house in 004 and missing an offender with a gun in an attic. Good thing no one got killed when 004 went back to collect evidence...but ya, PATROL need SWAT. Babies, the lot-of-them.
It's official SWAT is going to 3 rotating watches with 50ish members. GL city and anyone who wants to try out LOL. Hroma and Lamb has destroyed CPD SWAT. This is a great lesson learned for all, on what happens when you put non-leaders in leadership roles. RIP SWAT
Just some more clout cry babies. You don't like your job, go back to driving a beat car hero's! The results on a scene wouldn't change. I've been humping an M16/AR/M4 platform before most of you so-called "experts" (LMAO!) could even shoot a firearm!
Anonymous said...
Hate to tell you but Supt is right. SWAT is full of babies. Fulfill the job requirements or go back to the watch. You may disagree with the City operating plans, but to disregard your phone and not respond to emergencies is pathetic. You guys are a joke.
11/04/2018 01:34:00 AM
Should be paid for being on call!
alex Baldwin arrest in new York city for punching another motorist in a traffic dispute,hey alex were you drinking? had that happened in Chicago I would arrested you and dui you in a new York minute hey nypd great work just like that frank Sinatra song " new York new York"
ps seiser would had arrested alex Baldwin because seiser runs it.
Special Ed messed the marine unit when he dumped schloss and failed to replace her. Sent her to MAIU and was livid when she filed suit so what does Ed do? He dumps all the sergeants who had nothing to do with her regime and brings in people who know nothing. Great way to get even with her.
We have "SWAT" in Chicago?
Cracks are forming in Ed's mirrors. Better make more smoke.
So why can't they have a small team (squad level) on every watch? Cut some of the alderman's personal bodyguards. After all, the aldermen can carry guns as felons or not.
What the city does not need is a last place SWAT team. Ed was right. Bet they never enter another competition to prove to all how incompetent they are. Merit leadership and middle management gets you this result. Better hope you never get a situation where real action, not wasting is called for. Then you will see how poorly trained and prepared SWAT is. A bunch of ego maniacs in camo. Every time they show up I LOL.
____
Doubtful that any of the SWAT guys/girls really give a shit what your average beat copper thinks of them. They don't take any calls, get to play "elite" police force, don't wear the uniform, eat lunches anywhere in the city, take home cars/cellphones, etc etc etc, the list of perks is never ending. Sp. Ed has a point, the "gibs me dat" attitude" has gone too far.
For all you SWAT haters: Hate the game not the player.
9161.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Special Ed trying to form another MSF. Meeting with troops this week.
11/04/2018 04:44:00 AM
Then people will volunteer for it, and shortly after that they'll be on SCC bitching about the hours, the forced O.T., time due denied, no summer furlouhs, blah-blah-blah.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
All that Federal Money squandered. Our once proud Department is now a laughing stock of the country.
The city doesn’t have money for promised pensions and retiree healthcare but it’s got 200 million for a library for the Worth president in history?
Thanks democrates!
Maybe the Sheriffs Dept. has some kind of special response team. Hope they decide to help out.
The Sheriffs actually have a very good specialized rapid response team. But I don't think they are called SWAT.
The comparison to the suburban swat is not even on the same level. They have a swat team called NIPAS that is a group of suburban departments that donate a guy or agree to send a guy when needed. It is in no way a full time swat team. Having many suburban friends who have witnessed nipas, it sounds like they respond within a couple hours, but most times the incident is resolved. There have been a couple incidents that a standoff required the nipas equipment that has justified all the spending, but I have heard if it’s serious and urgent most suburbs call ISP SWAT or Cook County Sheriffs Police SWAT, both groups are highly respectable and proficient at the jobs.
CPD needs to get on board and eep a team ready at all times, thier is homeland security grant money available to assist in maintaining a SWAT team for a city the size of Chicago. Wake up Ed, before your left explaining another Rahm disaster.
11/04/2018 08:26:00 AM
This is a very accurate statement. Every suburban PO I know, including some brass, all say NIPAS is not a real swat team, just weekend warriors. Then they tell all thier friends, they are swat. Most are coppers from the watch, they train like once a month or less. Most do say that they use a CCSPD or ISP. We have a need to maintain a full time, well trained swat team 24/7. Thier pay is the same, the perk is a take home car and OT. Plus they don’t handle jobs or bid based on seniority, except thier fellow teammates. On call is part of receiving those perks,
First of all most of you hair gel wonders have no fucking idea what to do on a traffic stop let alone a SWAT incident. You’re afraid to put your hands on people or even stop them for that matter. It’s time to attempt to learn something.
The rules of engagement have changed, not for shithead but for us. We have to be smarter and use the personnel available to us. I’ve requested SWAT four times, two for high risk search warrants and twice for armed barricade incidents. Sure I could have gone in but why? A bit of pride? While I’m laying in the hospital or in the ground people could talk about how brave I was or how dumb I was. Let SWAT come out and take care of the problem, and we all go home safe. Isn’t that really what it’s all about? What do I care if it takes hours?
And no, I’m not a SWAT guy, never have and never want to be one.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hate to tell you but Supt is right. SWAT is full of babies. Fulfill the job requirements or go back to the watch. You may disagree with the City operating plans, but to disregard your phone and not respond to emergencies is pathetic. You guys are a joke.
For decades CPD got by with hostage negotiators who would be notified and reported to the scene. They were on duty doing their normal jobs and then responded. Worked out pretty as I recall
11/04/2018 10:54:00 AM
And SWAT was the 2 old fat wagon guys who were pissed that the job was taking too long and they were missing their lunch. They went in, shot up the place, and cleaned house. Not today, we have lots of bodies in uniform but not nearly enough Police Officers.
Be car3ful what you wish for with regards to Fat Head. Can almost guarantee the next one will be much worse. No matter who gets elected the next chief will be a social justice follower.
What Fat Ed wanted to say, we don’t need any police.
The ten years still haven't changed the fact that Chicago SWAT finished last of all the comeeting teams. How did last year's competition Go? Didn't think so.
OT
Why Trump won.
Long but interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YtzgA310t0
Seriously, explain this to me, so SWAT (special chosen) are simply on call? What do they do when there is no call out for the "expertise"? Never called them and would not waste my time calling for them!!!
Since making the job to the burbs, I get ten times the training. Mandatory rifle training, mandatory active shooter training.
I was never impressed with cpd swat and lose the green jump suits. Most of you acted like jackasses on scene. Your work in 004 was epic.
LAPD swat is by far the most professional. Cpd maybe go do a ride along and see how real swat works.
Let’s be honest, SWAT does nothing more than surround the perimeter and wait for the offender to get tired and come out.
A couple of beat cars can do the same thing, without take-home cars and fancy equipment and training.
Not to mention, during an actual active-shooter, beat cars and units will be the ones handling the shit anyways. Look at all of these incidents that have been happening nationwide- there’s been no time to wait for the wait-em-out guys in green to mobilize. It’s street guys doing the best they can and getting the job done. How about additional training for the everyday street guys? We’ve only been begging for it for years.
Chicago SWAT, highly trained in the art of standing around and hoping the offender gets bored and gives up before hurting more innocent people.
11/04/2018 01:16:00 AM
You must have never been sued hard charger. One of SWAT primary missions is to de-escalate. That is the reason for the waiting and negotiating. So please, next time you feel froggy, kick those doors in and handle the biz! We are in desperate need of heroes!
12;35 what is the TBK
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Old psych-workshop taught us that we are not here to die for this job or anyone else.
Family taught us we should die for family and country.
Military taught us to access...and if we are out gunned, then don't try to be John Wayne...reposition, don't give up our position of cover and wait for reinforcements. Then attack.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
It’s not stupid. Being the first on the scene puts you in a position to stop mass killings, especially when it’s a school setting. You never know what kind of weapon or the amount of ammo the shooter has or how capable he is to use it. Sometimes all it takes is a police officers presence for the offender to flee or in several cases shoot himself. It’s different when he is shooting unarmed students instead of confronting an armed officer. In the one big school shooting the offender quit firing when he saw the police approaching and tried to blend with the other students. I’m sure those kids in the school were happy he ran in instead of accessing, devising a plan and him wanting for reinforcements.
If you had kids in that school what would you have wanted that officer to do.
Anonymous said...
A new mayor is coming to Chicago, don't worry... Eddie he's gone !!!!!!!!!!!!!
11/04/2018 11:28:00 AM
Yeah, but it's going to be the same old, same old. Do you really think we'll get a new mayor or just another democratic mayor that is just like Rahm.
Outside looking in said...
"beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego"
What's a beat cooper? Anyway I will agree with you about the burbs, we are the whipped cream on the jello!
11/04/2018 11:24:00 AM
Oh boy!
Is it lime with the pineapple chunks?
The problem with SWAT is it's full of SWAT guys.
Who was Sgt Watts tac lieutenant(s).
Need to know. Don’t want to work for this jackass who let Watts crimes go on.
Hell lets get rid of the whole CPD they are not needed anymore than SWAT. Not serious but it makes as much sense as doing away with the best trained cops on the job. Best trained in Chicago doesn't mean a whole lot compared to NY or LAPD but they are better trained than the average CPD officer who can't be trusted with a shotgun.
Clueless supe, I have one word for your comment regarding SWAT-Pittsburg.
Who handled business? Pittsburg SWAT.
You really should stop talking to the press. If it’s not a TelePrompTer or someone else’s speech you’re voicing you’re an embarrassment.
Anonymous said...
Maybe the Sheriffs Dept. has some kind of special response team. Hope they decide to help out.
The Sheriffs actually have a very good specialized rapid response team. But I don't think they are called SWAT.
11/04/2018 05:24:00 PM
Sheriffs police and Illinois state police have very good swat teams, and will assist anyone. A lot of suburban towns use them, since the suburbs have Northern Illinois Police Alarm System (NIPAS) team. They are great at meetings, conferences, and planning stuff, not much of a SWAT team. I think that’s why most use ISP or CCSPD. Both are well equipped, well trained, timely, and do great work.
Can I join SWAT? I have a large earpiece collection and I love smoking cigars.
SWAT tryouts alway leave good men waiting to be called. They never do and try again and wait
again. WTF is the point.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Old psych-workshop taught us that we are not here to die for this job or anyone else.
Family taught us we should die for family and country.
Military taught us to access...and if we are out gunned, then don't try to be John Wayne...reposition, don't give up our position of cover and wait for reinforcements. Then attack.
I'm sorry, but running into a building with 9mm Glock with subsonic rounds towards an active shooter and unknown amount of ammunition is just stupid. Apply what we learned in the military...Assess, devise a plan, get reinforcements, (and get EMS rolling because someone is going to need it).
But hey, run in like an undisciplined and untrained movie actor and the Superintendent himself will tell your family, "He was a brave cop".
11/04/2018 01:32:00 AM"
I understand the sentiment, and somewhat agree, but the days of waiting outside for SWAT or backup to arrive are OVER. If there is an active shooter in a school the brass and public demand that you, hopefully with a good partner, immediately enter the building and engage the shooter. If not, yes, you will be alive, but will be crucified and most likely lose your job. I'm sorry, but things changed drastically for the police after Columbine.
11/04/2018 07:19:00 AM
After reading this, and assuredly without bravado, f*** all this above. Engage the bad guy in these situations at all costs and give that evil no quarter, unless he/she surrenders before you reach that demon. This is fundamental good vs evil. May God be with you if in this situation. I don’t know I could live with myself if I relented in some cowardly way.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Since making the job to the burbs, I get ten times the training. Mandatory rifle training, mandatory active shooter training.
I was never impressed with cpd swat and lose the green jump suits. Most of you acted like jackasses on scene. Your work in 004 was epic.
LAPD swat is by far the most professional. Cpd maybe go do a ride along and see how real swat works.
11/04/2018 07:16:00 PM
I worked in a well trained and well equipped suburb before I came to CPD. Never regretted it. There is minimal crime fighting opportunities in the burbs. You can write hella tickets though! Strapped with multiple firearms and a squad car with so many lights that the citizens think their getting abducted by aliens when you pull them over!
Hut hut hut hut hut
Operators..... now that’s a good one
To the “War on Terror Vet”, (whatever that means). Your rebuttal is all over the place. And I doubt if a school shooter will “run away” if they see you coming.
-I’ve been in combat and I’ve been the police.
Buhh bye.
Due diligence of SWAT..Forensic accounting of all overtime..In depth review of all training by outside experts..Interview all members of SWAT,to ascertain where persistent problems exist..Review of all SWAT members personnel history,CR Numbers lawsuits against any SWAT member..
12;35 what is the TBK
You must not be from Chicago...or 12 years old
Special Ed messed the marine unit when he dumped schloss and failed to replace her. Sent her to MAIU and was livid when she filed suit so what does Ed do? He dumps all the sergeants who had nothing to do with her regime and brings in people who know nothing. Great way to get even with her.
11/04/2018 03:20:00 PM
Ed just did what Georgas told him to do. And that’s why she’s going to get a multi-million dollar settlement like that firefighter in the suburbs.
Since someone brought up old,fat wagon guys who took care of business, perhaps SWAT should talk to that "old,fat wagon guy" that worked in 023 before he retired. I remember when a dude shot a copper up there ( sorry,I forgot his name ) and an "old fat wagon guy" responded and took care of business the way it should have been taken care of. For those of you that either were not on the job or don't remember, he didn't sit back, establish a perimeter and wait for SWAT. He went in and took care of business ensuring that the bad guy never hurt anyone again. Permanently. Oh yeah, he did it while armed with nothing more than a six shooter and a dump pouch. Today's brand of coppers AND SWAT could learn from that guy. He was the real deal in an age when the Police were the Police.
SWAT PLAN
1. They are needed. But yes - they are usually just securing scene and waiting for the call in negotiators to provide the shit bird with a line of communication to vent and fulfill his reasonable requests until he turns himself over.
2. Increase numbers and make it a 1st / 2nd / 3rd watch - so coverage all around.
3. Do not decrease physical standards - but do reduce the Firearm requirements to 80% - you will get more people and through continued training the Firearm percentage will go up for operators who need to get better than 80%. Tactics can be taught through training if an operator is recognized as needing more.
4. Get a training sgt that will work with operators in a professional manner and not degrade in crowds to make himself seem like a bigger and best Alpha Male.
5. No take home cars possibly needed if manpower is increased around the clock.
6. SWAT support guys/vehicle guys need to merge together to decrease overtime and constant coverage of support duties.
----
This is an easy plan from a Chicago Public School guy...
beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego
Before this job i worked at a courthouse. Suburbs get more training along with a super ego. The north shore police are super arrogant.
To the writer who said that he left a suburb to come to CPD god bless. I wonder whatburb you worked in because every suburb is experiencing crime now. Maybe you were not a well versed copper in the art of street stops and traffic stops. Traffic stops reveal crimes. A relative works in the burbs and spends a lot of time in court for guns and dope punches. Is SWAT certified and is a response unit for the town when they need a big gun for outside agencies and other towns. Makes as much or more than CPD. Stay safe, big city cop
There is minimal crime fighting opportunities in the burbs.
Yup and minimal lawsuits. If you haven't figured it out policing is a garbage career. So anything that keeps you out of b.s is the name of the game.
Major cities with a population near or above 1,000,000 should maintain a full time SWAT team. These cities can get funding/grants from the feds to run them, as long as the proper guidelines are followed. The LAPD comments are accurate, but I do believe they have slipped a little from 15 years ago and let’s not forget, they are the original SWAT under Chief Daryl Gates. One of the last great big city chiefs. NYPD runs a tight unit and they seem to have it together. ISP and CCSPD appear to pretty damn well, especially when you factor in that they are stuck in this liberal anti-police state. NIPAS is a circus show and most wonder what they are doing. They are overseen by multiple chiefs that can now say on thier resume for the next gold star job, that they oversee a SWAT team. That is the only reason towns use and fund them, thier Chief is on the nipas board. If the suburban Chief is not on the board they tend to use County or State SWAT. So Ed stop acting like SWAT is not needed, Rahm is setting you up for a huge disaster.
You just can't find leadership like this anymore. You have to get it out of a Crackerjack box.
Anonymous said...
Outside looking in said...
"beat cooper. Suburban guys are more trained and knowledgeable without the ego"
What's a beat cooper? Anyway I will agree with you about the burbs, we are the whipped cream on the jello!
11/04/2018 11:24:00 AM
Oh boy!
Is it lime with the pineapple chunks?
Yes, like the one Aunt Bethany gave the Griswolds.
The CPD SWAT team has potential, shitty leadership, disgruntled middle management, and a few Instagram stars. But again they have potential if they get time to actually train.
CCSPD is a derailment of a team. Make CPD look lile DELTA Force. It’s county run,obviously, grossly underfunded, terribly trained, there all assigned to gangs or investigations and never available. they have squandered more DHS money then all the other teams in the metro Chicago area put together.
ISP TRT is high speed and competent. They lack manpower up north but overall quite squared away.
NIPAS is huge covers 4 counties and is well funded. They’re not busy but like ISP do good job when they get called.
Seriously, swat is important BUT, there are a lot of officers that would love to train daily, not be tied to a radio answering mundane jobs throughout the day, prepare for life after the department with a long list of qualifications. Nothing new that the complaining never ends.
If it’s so awful why don’t they leave and return to a watch. We all know the answer to that. The department pays for all the specialized training and there is a lot of down time. If anyone needs time to unwind it’s the patrol officers. How often is swat called out, stats.? Maybe understaffed, well tell that to watches that run with 6 cars 99 units. The department is understaffed
Seriously, swat is important BUT, there are a lot of officers that would love to train daily, not be tied to a radio answering mundane jobs throughout the day, prepare for life after the department with a long list of qualifications. Nothing new that the complaining never ends
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Train every day? Bwahahahaha. Under the current leadership there were months without training to cover concerts, games, and anything Georgas could push on the team at McCormick place so he could get that gig. Rifles older than some of the PPOs, expired shields, armored vehicles that go down weekly. Mentally ill sgts, a boss who would sell out the team to get his next promotion. If you think it's something that you want to do, please try out. They are looking for more bodies. The CO will reduce standards again I'm sure or round up scores to get people in. By the way if you ever tried out and didn't make it, you need to sue him. Apparently there is no set score to get in according to him, so everyone should've gotten in. And Carter, well he thinks the team needs more diversity, that's his code for more black people. His entire career spent being a racist. Yeah everything is peachy in swat so please try out. Yeah yeah, I know if it's so bad leave. Ok then you'll come and do this super easy job? The majority of the guys are dedicated and hard working, the reason they are doing this is to try and force the city into making it safer for everyone. Please try out, then you can get an idea of what the reality is before you say things based on what you think it is. The guys do the job because someone has to.
Things are really getting interesting in SWAT. Just heard from a credible source that a beloved SWAT Sgt.from the past now Lt.(WW) was seen in the building roaming around. Possible shake up in SWAT management? Stay tuned
Sorry operators if you don’t like how the department is treating you go back to pushing a beat car for 8.5 hours with a BWC. Narcotics Buy Officers do a way more dangerous job than any of you operators and they too get no extra compensation for the work they do. If they start making demands for extra perks for the work they do, they to will be told if you don’t want to do it you can always go back to patrol. Oh and that Unit makes so much money for the department on seizures.
So no pitty from me operators, don’t like how you treated go back to patrol. No one is forcing you to stay there, stop your bitching and wining it’s getting old, you are not special.
You have forgotten the best of the best, SSERT! You are SWAT (SSERT) or you are not!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The CPD SWAT team has potential, shitty leadership, disgruntled middle management, and a few Instagram stars. But again they have potential if they get time to actually train.
CCSPD is a derailment of a team. Make CPD look lile DELTA Force. It’s county run,obviously, grossly underfunded, terribly trained, there all assigned to gangs or investigations and never available. they have squandered more DHS money then all the other teams in the metro Chicago area put together.
ISP TRT is high speed and competent. They lack manpower up north but overall quite squared away.
NIPAS is huge covers 4 counties and is well funded. They’re not busy but like ISP do good job when they get called.
11/05/2018 04:10:00 PM
Where did you come up with this propaganda?
CCSPD swat team is solid, could use a few more guys, but that is every unit. Placed respectfully in national swat tournaments.
ISP TRT is solid, well trained. Again can use some additional guys.
NIPAS is a a large unit, with several chiefs overseeing it. Not very proficient from what I have heard from several people, but they do buy great equipment. Their are so many people they seldom train together. Better off calling a trained swat team, like CCSPD or isp.
CPD should have a 24 hour team.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Since making the job to the burbs, I get ten times the training. Mandatory rifle training, mandatory active shooter training.
I was never impressed with cpd swat and lose the green jump suits. Most of you acted like jackasses on scene. Your work in 004 was epic.
LAPD swat is by far the most professional. Cpd maybe go do a ride along and see how real swat works.
11/04/2018 07:16:00 PM
I worked in a well trained and well equipped suburb before I came to CPD. Never regretted it. There is minimal crime fighting opportunities in the burbs. You can write hella tickets though! Strapped with multiple firearms and a squad car with so many lights that the citizens think their getting abducted by aliens when you pull them over!
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Nothing wrong with the burbs... Lose the ego and realize those guys are police as well. Better trained, better equipped, and they can handle themselves.
Anonymous said...
Special Ed messed the marine unit when he dumped schloss and failed to replace her. Sent her to MAIU and was livid when she filed suit so what does Ed do? He dumps all the sergeants who had nothing to do with her regime and brings in people who know nothing. Great way to get even with her.
11/04/2018 03:20:00 PM
Ed just did what Georgas told him to do. And that’s why she’s going to get a multi-million dollar settlement like that firefighter in the suburbs.
11/05/2018 06:36:00 AM
You must be one of her boy toys to even think Schloss was good for the marine unit or any unit, she is the epitome of what’s wrong with bosses. Obviously you also don’t know how things work, you can’t assign another Lt to the marine unit because she is still assigned there until her lawsuit is complete. Assign another Lt there and she adds that, along with everything else to her already ‘can’t touch me attitude’ lawsuit. Not to mention why would Special Ed care about anybody filing a lawsuit? Especially this cunt who is a serial ‘lawsuitor’ (I know it’s not a word). Seriously EVERY place she goes she screws it up! So sorry, sack-of-shit and M.D. you can spew the Schloss is the greatest boss campaign elsewhere. She is as incompetent and entitled as they come!
Oh and the new sgts all have detective division training and it’s not rocket scientist stuff either.
Things are really getting interesting in SWAT. Just heard from a credible source that a beloved SWAT Sgt.from the past now Lt.(WW) was seen in the building roaming around. Possible shake up in SWAT management? Stay tuned
11/05/2018 10:27:00 PM
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Yeah OKAY! -- I just saw Mancha driving down Central Park. He had interview. Might be next boss of SWAT. Oh wait - I just saw Danny Amidei too. Maybe he going to be next boss of SWAT.
GET A GRIP u IDIOT!
Body Worn Cameras coming to SWAT.
Let’s see how high speed you really are.
Hey Psycho Training Sgt,
You still wearing those cool glasses on swat jobs that record?
Why don’t you post on IG anc show us how you to one man CQB?
SCC,
Looks like SWAT is going to three watches, day off groups and rotating watches every police period.
Congrats to Lt Lamb and the rest of the ass clown SWAT Sergeants. All of you are culpable in the destruction of our SWAT team. We will not even meet the NTOA requirements for a part time SWAT team.
https://wgntv.com/2018/11/05/chicago-swat-team-going-24-7/
Anonymous said...
...I remember SWAT clearing a house in 004 and missing an offender with a gun in an attic. Good thing no one got killed when 004 went back to collect evidence...but ya, PATROL need SWAT. Babies, the lot-of-them.
11/04/2018 01:59:00 PM
Wasn’t the first time they did that. Won’t be the last. I’m glad the Superintendent kicked them to the curb. Now go get you’re shoe shine box.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The CPD SWAT team has potential, shitty leadership, disgruntled middle management, and a few Instagram stars. But again they have potential if they get time to actually train.
CCSPD is a derailment of a team. Make CPD look lile DELTA Force. It’s county run,obviously, grossly underfunded, terribly trained, there all assigned to gangs or investigations and never available. they have squandered more DHS money then all the other teams in the metro Chicago area put together.
ISP TRT is high speed and competent. They lack manpower up north but overall quite squared away.
NIPAS is huge covers 4 counties and is well funded. They’re not busy but like ISP do good job when they get called.
11/05/2018 04:10:00 PM
Where did you come up with this propaganda?
CCSPD swat team is solid, could use a few more guys, but that is every unit. Placed respectfully in national swat tournaments.
ISP TRT is solid, well trained. Again can use some additional guys.
NIPAS is a a large unit, with several chiefs overseeing it. Not very proficient from what I have heard from several people, but they do buy great equipment. Their are so many people they seldom train together. Better off calling a trained swat team, like CCSPD or isp.
Propaganda would be an inaccurate statement. The thread is and should be about CPD and not about how great CCSPD HBT is.
Each team has problems but CPD could actually handle a scene when they show up. County doesn’t have the resources.
As stated above if Eddie wanted to fiund equip and essentially overhaul the leadership at CPD they could be a big asset to the department. The current way they are utilized is a joke with SORT and homeland security patrols downtown. This is not what a major city team does. There are guidelines an recommendations from NTOA that should be followed by CPD and they are not. They are there for a reason and some are dictated y court decisions. I do agree that a metropolitan city Chicago’s size should have a 24 hr team. But again that goes to funding, staffing etc.
Bring back AK!!!
The only shakeup at swat are the paint cans they will need shake before they paint over the holes ML has caused
SCC,
Looks like SWAT is going to three watches, day off groups and rotating watches every police period.
Congrats to Lt Lamb and the rest of the ass clown SWAT Sergeants. All of you are culpable in the destruction of our SWAT team. We will not even meet the NTOA requirements for a part time SWAT team.
https://wgntv.com/2018/11/05/chicago-swat-team-going-24-7/
11/06/2018 07:06:00 PM
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All of the white shirts are a bunch of suck asses that care more about their careers. They talk a good game that they are on our side. Wrong! They care only about themselves.
SWAT: Sortta Worked, Annihilated Themselves
This department refuses to spend any money on our specialized units like SWAT. Yet they will spend money on bikes and boats that people see every day. Narcotics has a car for just about every copper even inside desk people. They claim its money confiscated that pays for these cars. SWAT training is almost none, send these guys to good tactical schools.
ISP has the best, well trained, equipped, most proficient SWAT team around. CCSPD has a very good well trained SWAT team, but can use additional funding/resources. NIPAS is not a SWAT team, in most cases they are a support team that provides assistance to about 100 suburbs in some form in the time of need, if it meets minimum requirements.
CPD should be a full time SWAT team on par with ISP. This should not even be a argument, the only question should be, what is required to get the grant funding. Maybe Kidney Bean can call Rick Flair for some direction.
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