This Again?
Wasn't there just a shooting recently in an actual hospital?
- This morning I stopped by "Presence St. Joseph's Hospital" on the 2900 block of Lake Shore Drive to visit slain police officer Rick Francis's partner, Norm K. (019 - Retired) who recently had a heart attack and as of Friday was still in ICU. After stopping by ICU mid morning today I was instructed that Norm had been moved to another floor. In addition to that the nurse also made aware that the hospital has a strick [sic] policy against persons or in this case, police officers possessing firearms on the premises while not responding to a call for service...
Now I realize this probably isn't the first incident to have ever occurred... Sporting venues etc. have similar policies. But it was my first along with the fact I was working within my District, in full uniform with a marked vehicle parked out front... To say I stuck out like a sore thumb would be an under statement.
Debating whether to return to the 1st floor and surrender my service revolver to security was not something I was comfortable with... After all, no one from security or otherwise was conducting any kind of searches for weapons from ordinary citizens coming in off the street... No metal detectors were in place. With that knowledge I simply took the elevator up to the appropriate floor to visit with one of our own... unsure exactly what transpired next I can only surmise that the ICU nurse who not only told me which floor/bed Norm was in, obviously made the call down to security to inform them exactly where I was more than likely headed.
Within 10 min. or so security arrived to escort me off the premises since I was unwilling to surrender my weapon... Having a brief conversation on the way back down with the female security officer, whom I might add was Not armed, stated that the policy set forth was even discussed with a Chicago Police Superintendent and the Mayors office.
I did asked the following question: "Had I surrendered my weapon and had let's say I ran into a situation what is it that you think I should do since your hospital policy has stripped me of my weapon"?
Your going to love her answer! "You will have to do like the rest of us, which is to Run and Hide" Shaking my head not believing what I had just heard, drove away wondering what if anything could be done...
Didn't the Department or the FOP come out with something that stated an officer on-duty and in uniform was covered by State Law as not having to disarm unless entering a psychiatric treatment area of a hospital?
Labels: from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
144 Comments:
I visited a friend there last week on my lunch and had zero problem.
I once responded to a call of a man with a knife on the psychiatric floor of a hospital and was told by staff that I would have to check my gun with the unarmed security.
I laughed.
Many of the hospitals cut costs on security and rely on cpd to get them through the rough spots.
These people may have a lot of letters behind their name but they are not street smart.
Don't risk your life for a hospital's profit margin.
Never surrender your weapon.
Yeah, what about that mass shooting at the hospital
in Chicago? Police scrambled to arrive and neutralize
shooter. They used - wait for it - FIREARMS.
Nazi Nurse only doing as she was told. Security from
first floor without guns: Priceless!
d1scrimination....file a suit fop.
That is the point. Hey want you to “feel it.” Even if it means their own lives. That’s how fucked up the thought process regarding the police is within the city.
You are not special! You are just like the rest of us! You will feel the pain and fear just like the rest of us. You will feel this even if it means disarming you in a life threatening situation were you could possible save our lives
I would say it contradicts state law.
Keep that in mind should the hospital experience an active shooter incident. Get paid 1st/16th and allow the rest to sort itself out, who cares how. You better get smart and realize that Chicago liberals, mayor, Johnson and “the community” hate you and your gun.
Fuck 'em. You're exempted from those idiotic policies for a reason. Tell them to stop accosting you or they risk arrest.
The psych ward being one place not to carry a weapon, I also wouldn't carry one around the MRI suites either. But in those cases, let's assume you go with a partner, and your partner takes charge of your weapon(s) for the duration. Not some Hospital Security Guards...
Come on ... you don’t always need a gun with you. What could happen or go wrong in highly violent Chicago? On second thought .... two guns and a shotgun are needed at all time.
Who came up with the stupid rule to disarm cops?
It’s private property, there’s nothing that says they have to let you in armed. It’s incredibly stupid, but it’s their choice.
You won't get much sympathy from me quite honestly, police carve outs are one of the reasons PDs in urban areas tow the line for gun control. They don't really care so long as people become statistics in those situations to justify more gun control failures. As pointed out security theater is just that.........theater. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if a city/state wants to restrict people to 10 round mags or have smart guns or have a handgun roster or require microstamping etc. then the POs can do that too.
A more apt thought is what would have happened if someone came in and told the rental cops no. I'm betting that they aren't adequately equipped or allowed to handle someone with a gun that doesn't care about their regulations.
That said, concealed is concealed. Not endorsing violations of law or policy but ultimately one makes their own choices. A J-frame on the ankle makes for good company. Would be less than surprised if there were more than a few docs who did the same thing too tbh.
The Onion Field Incident. Do they still teach that at the Academy?
DONT EVER DISARM!!
Unfortunately unless you could articulate some sort of positive community interaction that would be the reason for you to be present at the hospital doing a “personal errand” only thing you could have done was visit until security told you to leave.
I guess you could have held yourself down on a license check!! After all you have the right to enter and inspect any licensed facility in the city of Chicago.
It’s a private business and can make whatever policy they like. Wanna visit the man, go off duty, armed and concealed. As you said, they’re not disarming folks at the door like most sporting venues do here. Drawing attention to this and at the same time supporting sports organizations who play at venues who disarm off duty police is an exercise in hypocrisy. If you disagree with a business’ policies, don’t support the business. Sure, make it known on a forum, but then don’t turn around and hand over your gun for something as childish as a ball game. Went to the Chicago theater a couple of years ago. Got wanded and let them know I was an LEO. They had me report to an office of some sort where they wrote down my info and seat number and then said, enjoy the show. Never asked me to disarm. I’m sure there are more businesses like that out there in this shithole liberal bastion of a city and it’s those that deserve support. If you frequent places that demand you disarm, it’s your own fault for giving them your money and you shouldn’t be whining over stories like this.
They would rather have everyone dead so they can get more gun control.
So if you get a call while on duty don’t even go on their property as you will be escorted out. Park on Sheridan, Diversey or N LSD W and have the ER staff come out to your squad. See how long that lasts. Hospitals used to be very supportive of the police and the police always took care of medical personnel but they seem to be going left wing looney.
The MBA's and the lawyers run these places now---
set policy. The medical people just work there and
are considered replaceable. Reduces legacy costs
and lowers payroll. No way a board member is worth
$1M/year with no medical background. Yet you find
this year after year at nonprofits. They pay the goons
first then use the leftover funds on landscaping so they
break even.
Unfortunately the dumb and ignorant are calling the shots and leaving the innocent unsafe. If you would have surrendered your weapon you would have been essentially stripped of all police powers and your ability to save lives if the unthinkable happened. Glad you didn’t. Problem is it’s a lose lose situation for us. If something terrible happened they’d still blame you. Everyone needs to make note of this and avoid this hospital whether working or for medical attention.
Fuck them hospitals , I won't give up my gun to them useless guards & hospital won't get any extra from me
Fuck these libtards. When they have a disturbance in their ER and they call the police, let their unarmed security handle it, 19-p. Fuck em.
Before I retired I had a Dr. appt that required me to take my shirt off, now, normally, I would go there in uniform because I always made my appointments before work. This particular afternoon was my RDO. I take off my jacket, remove my shirt and the female technician or nurse? looked very uncomfortable, hooked me up to the machine and scampered off to get the office manager. The office manager looked at me and then looked at my firearm like I had a holstered turd or rat on my belt. She asked me if I was a police officer and I said, active Chicago Police, I'm like in my 60's so I felt I should say, active so there wouldn't be any discussion about maybe being retired and my having the nerve to carry that "thing". She asked me if it had it's safety on? I almost fell into the trap of trying to discuss firearms safety with the usual democrat, idiot, know nothing, but realized I didn't want to speak to this dimwit more than I had to and just replied that my hand gun was in a holster so, yes, it's safe. Now, I realize that to the usual socialist, SJW suspects in this country now, I'm the most likely terrorist in the USA, a caucasion man, senior citizen with a firearm. I'm really very tired of living among the stupid here.
after the mercy hospital shooting this is insanity. seems these sjw can never admit to a failed policy but only double down on it. gun free zones? on the honor system in a city with no honor. bet if dude goes in and shoots up the c suite taking no prisoners they might change their mind. quickly. for the children.
These people are dumber than fuck! They don’t check any civilians entering but don’t allow on duty Chicago police officers to carry a firearm. So they’re saying “welcome bad guys. Good guys not welcome.” Are we in the twilight zone? Just avoid the place. If I were a good a patient I’d choose another hospital.
So the next time the Vice Lords or Latin Kings are escorting one of their homies, they will most certainly voluntarily turn over any concealed weapons? And should there be a disruption due to said homies getting into a fire fight in the lounge, don't worry since security is right there to run and hide. And since officers can't enter the sanctified spaces with weapons, then they should wait outside until said Community members are finished with their interactions. F***ing Insane, boys and girls. I never thought I'd ever say it, but next time I need a hospital I'll go the VA. At least their officers are allowed to carry sidearms without being disarmed by rent-a-cops.
Run and hide is why the city is fucked up beyond belief and why the crime is out of control. I would.have told her yea you're right if I see some asshole with assault you..I ll just run and hide.
So it is beginning here. There are various movements across the country to disarm the police, just google: “disarm the police” ,they cite other countries like Ireland, England, New Zealand, Norway for the most part do not carry guns on their person but can have access to them if needed. They claim it will reduce the aggressive behavior in the police and reduce the number of people shot by police and that the criminal will be less confrontational in dealing with the police, yea right. Another article to read is in LAW ENFORCEMENT TODAY, “Urgent: Movement To Disarm The Police Gaining Major Traction-Here’s What’s Happening” (22 Oct 29). I am starting to see more and more “no guns allowed” signs wherever I go. In NYC some venues like sporting events and theaters you are banned even if you are the police. They have magnetometers.
This is the big wet dream of your new Socialist ProgressiveDemocrat Party to help further their quest for their complete control over you just like they want to control your health care. Well there was some good news, BETO, we-are coming to take your guns, dropped out of his run for President of the US. Regarding that St Joseph Hospital, I remember reading in this blog that a PO had a similar experience at Lurie Children’s Hospital. Give them what they want, avoidance and give them no business. There are plenty of other hospitals in the area.
So you left why? You are right they cannot make you surrender your weapon. What are they going to do, call the police? You are the police act like it.
Same thing happened to me 1yr ago at Norwegian Hospital. I told them to go pound sand. I was visiting an injured PO in my own district while on-duty. I was conducting "official" policy duties by getting an event number for premise check at Hospital. I would love to see those weak guards try to disarm me. I just ignored them and kept walking.
The entire medical establishment here in Chicago is shifting far-left and becoming more anti-police as time goes on. Expect this type of treatment with more outrageous demands on the CPD by hospital staff and their “security guards”. And yet they will bend over backwards for Dude Inc. even if they are brought in with handcuffs on. I just don’t get it. Which hospitals are the most anti-police as of now so we know what to expect if we’re from outside the district? I’d say Northwestern Hospital, St Joseph’s and Rush are all on the same s*** and understand you have no friends there...
How about bringing homeless drunks to ER and leaving. We did years ago to a hospital who didn't want us using bathroom
Put it in your pocket.. and the backup pistol is on the ankle.
When the shit hits the fan just tell everyone you don't have a weapon.
Better call a demo-crat to go save you.
Just protect youself.
Ask some of the hospital staff at Mercy how they feel about it.
God Bless the officer killed however I would take my time going in when the bullets are flying.
I was injured on duty at Illinois Masonic years ago. Security kept asking me if they could secure my weapon and I kept telling them no. It finally dawned on me they actually wanted to secure my weapon - at first I thought they were just trying to make it convenient for me. They never got it.
Sorry but if you are in uniform and working there is nothing they can do about it.
Are current IL attorney general sponsored a failed bill to create police officer free zones. One such area, was a hospital. The bill never made it out of committee. I don't have the bill number anymore. I used to have it because officers would say - that can't be true. Well it was.
These hospital administrators have a short memory. On November 19, 2018, Chicago Police Officer Samuel Jimenez Star # 19526 assigned to the 2nd District, responded to a domestic related shooting in progress at Mercy Hospital. Officer Jimenez valiantly engaged the active shooter in the highest traditions of the Chicago Police Department. Officer Jimenez was fatally wounded sacrificing his life for the citizens of Chicago. You are forever remembered by your Law Enforcement family. Rest in Peace Brother.
If they have a problem with you being there tell them to call the police.
I think St. Joseph's politburo should get "woke". Lots of mass shootings in schools, sporting events, hip-hop celebrations, hospitals, music events, etc. Not to mention the like clockwork shootings in one of the nation's most violent cities. Lots of shooting in River North and on your gentrified Lake shore Drive. What makes your hospital so immune from violence?
You dumb ass progressive bean counters and left wing extremist policy wonks need to get for-real "woke" since this violence stuff is random and very unpredictable. So far in your city this year alone, 443 killed and 2,377 wounded. Sound policy for your facility banning the very people who will run into gunfire while everyone else is running away? Unarmed in uniform makes a soft target for those bent on destruction on an enormous magnitude. More like a naïve policy with an social agenda hoping something bad never happens at your hospital. Dumbasses.
No hold out/concealed second piece?
Mount Sinai Hospital erected iron bars and cages to protect their emergency room staff. Remember in May two family members while waiting on news of a wounded relative shot outside their door in a car on the street in front of the emergency room. Wasn't a gunshot victim dragged outside the emergency room and re-shot in the parking lot in yet another incident?
I know its the westside but the "clientele" go clubbing up north frequently. To the staff at St. Joseph's Hospital, say your prayers requesting divine intervention that the thugs and gangbangers don't show up at your door and takeover your facility. Kindly remind those thugs requesting mandatory compliance on the affirmative policy of a gun free workplace.
If this should happen, call 911 and ask for disarmed police officers in uniform (just following hospital policy) to handle this hot mess. My prayers are for the safety of the hospital staff as the hospital big wigs have a blatant disregard for your safety. And by the way, armed officers are a visual deterrence to crime and disorder just like those gun stickers with the red slash on them. Its time for those big wigs to put on those thinking caps and consider the value of the lives of their staff changing the feel good policy.
Northswestern Memorial has the same policy. But, if you are plain clothes and nothing is displayed, simply ask for a visitors pass and go right up. Do not identify yourself. That hospital is ripe with thefts from patients and visitors. Employees are ripping the hospital off daily as does some of the security force who could not find Mickey Mouse in Orlando. These hospitals cannot protect their staff or their patients or their visitors. They are hired on the cheap and the personnel reflect that. Protect yourself. This hospital is very easy for any criminal to enter, day or night.
Same thing at Rush Hospital. On duty in plan clothes with a vest. While at my sister's bedside the charge nurse and security asked me to leave. Walked out and came back the next day without my vest. Every visit thereafter was without my vest.
There is no doubt in my mind that they did discuss it with our Superintendent, hence their idiotic policy
THe hospital should be a NO FLY ZONE for police!
All victims will be required to go to the station for complete interview.
Security guard must show state training and give home address info (run them alot have been arrested).
All traffic will be enforced around building per law.
CMON guys dont act like you cant do nothing and then expect FOP to protect you in you own district on duty.
Hopefully you study hard for that SGT exam and then you can see what an invisible union looks like.
I'd tell them to call 911 for the police and wait upstairs and see what happens.
How Quickly they forgot What happened at Mercy Hospital, I was there something I will never forget.
Run and Hide
It worked during the American Revolution in the era of the
long gun musket. George Washington was a master of the
tactical retreat. We were outgunned and outmanned. But
that don't work against the criminals of today. You have to
take the fight to the criminal.
"Gun free zones are fucking awesome! You get to be the only one around who has a loaded gun at the ready!" ~ Mass Shooter/Terrorist
Police suppression at best. Never disarm. Union needs to get involved NOW! This nurse obviously had something against the police. What an utter disgrace, unbelievable. When you are in uniform you are on duty whether you are on an event or not. I’m retired but this pisses me off. Please somebody look into this.
Are there knives and needles inside a hospital? I think those terror weapons should be removed so no one gets hurt.
“ Run & Hide” was the policy in pre war Nazi Germany...how’d that work out? ♠️
Carrying your duty weapon while working is a uniform requirement. You are considered out of uniform without it and could be subject to disciplinary action. Try leaving the station in uniform without being armed. Call for a supervisor any time security requests you disarm. My guess is they have no secure facility for your weapon and your car is not considered a secure place for a weapon.
Just another of the many hater medical professionals that exist.
Don’t get me wrong many, maybe even most, medical professionals I have encountered support the police.
The question to the ‘security’ guard should have been, when the nurse is getting her ass kicked and I respond,
where do I check my gun?
The liberal media has done their job.
Chicago Theater wouldn't let me in armed.
No No No NEVER give up your weapon. OMG I pray no CPD has given up their weapon on duty for ANYTHING..... Holy Fuck
An active shooter in a local hospital?! That would never happen...
Ask the security guard if he or she has a FOID and a Conseal Carry License. Ask for his driver's license to see where he lives.
When the old Children’s would call for service 1840 would always take the job, show up, and be told she could not enter the hospital with her firearm. At which point she would come up on the zone and announce that they would not let her in with her gear, she is not going in without her gear, 19P the job, and leave!
I'd prefer to run and hide...right behind a cop with a gun.
In a perfect world, after DOJ locks up the coup plotters for SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY, and Trump is re-elected, and the congress is back in republican control,and after rgb of the supremes dries up and blows away and Trump gets another supreme court pick, gun free zones will be living on borrowed time, as well as a few other communist inspired laws and nonsense. NEVER VOTE FOR ANY FUCKING DEMORAT!
I'll bet my next paycheck the Mayor won't require her security detail to be unarmed if she vitits the hospital.
You got to hide your gun away.....
Went to a burglary in progress once where the lunatic homeowner wanted us to remove our boots!!! As I was headed out the door to go have coffee they reconsidered ...lol...true story happened in 018 on the Gold Coast .
How quickly people forget what happened at Mercy Hospital. I will not disarm
Yeah, hard to believe. A Boy Scout troop on a field trip
was told to stay outside the perimeter while S.W.A.T.
and officers armed only with handguns went in to take
care of business. Field trip cancelled.
Looked up the Onion Field Incident and saw the photo
of the 4-door Corvair. Brought back memories. Friend
would take dad's car and ask how many miles we would
be traveling so he knew how many quarts of oil to bring along.
Anon said at 11/04/2019 12:18:00 AM:
"Never surrender your weapon,"
Words to live by. If things go sideways let those who choose to work unarmed handle it.
In my non-LEO eyes you made the best decision possible.
I've been in and out of here since may & was never asked about a weapon until I came in uniform. Every other time I walked in concealed with no problem. I think it's dumb to disarm officers but it isn't my hospital
So you left why? You are right they cannot make you surrender your weapon. What are they going to do, call the police? You are the police act
////////////////////////////////
Maybe your not familiar with the old saying: You might Win the Battle, But Lose the War... I've learned that in my 28 years here on the Job. In this Anti-Police Climate do you think I would actually came out on Top? No I preferred to handle it the way I did. But by All Means knock yourself out and let me know how that works out for You!
Ron
019
Hey SCC, apparently everyone knows about "Chicago Values" I happened to go to the Tool Concert on Sunday and right in the middle of the set the singer says "Come to Chicago for the food, stay cause you got murdered" which got a the entire venue laughing. When the show finally was coming to an end the singer said "Since nobody here killed anybody at the show you can take your cell phones out and take pictures". Thanks for the "values"
Off topic but worth a post for our
Chicago teachers can save 244 unused sick days, retire early under new contract
The tentative agreement raises the cap on accrued sick days from 40 to 244; some longtime teachers could use those days to retire a year early and still collect their full pension.
This is why I carry concealed everywhere. Screw the little stickers. These places don't take the responsibility of protecting me while disarming me, so I won't let them take away my right to self defense.
Serious question:
What is the purpose of this policy in regards to the police? Is there a reasonable answer that they give you?
That’s what happens when Millennials grow up and get jobs.
@ 0309 poster your wrong! I was at the VA last week and saw a VA PO escorting an on duty CPD officer in full uniform. Guess what the CPD officer was unarmed but did have his other equipment. The look on the VA PO wasn’t too happy in a good way. And yes shortly thereafter a lunatic with a rifle came in and started blasting away. What comes to mind on BB the news CPD was there. As for the lunatic. Well Kimmy can’t get involved it’s Federal property. So no Larry or Kimmy or Ed involved. Nice. Good thing nobody got killed
I went to the planetarium this last summer. Of course had my gun, they said I couldn’t bring it in, i showed them my star, they said I still couldn’t bring it in, to which I replied “I’m going to bring it in”. They called the security manager who was off duty CPD and had no problem. They can’t stop you from having your gun, even if they have their little policy.
I briefly worked security at Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn back in 2004. After learning the policy of telling officers to lock up their guns, I allowed a Cook County deputy to carry to a medical appointment after finding out he was armed off duty. I was also on duty when 20 carloads of gangbangers showed up in the E.R. bay after two shooting victims were brought in, and a Chicago cop took down about 10 carloads in the parking lot at gunpoint while we watched, unable to assist, and other guards frantically looked for the Oak Lawn officer who was somewhere in the E.R. I could hear Chicago and Oak Lawn units blowing their engines to assist the CPD guy alone in the lot, while the only thing Security did was try to block part of the street near the lot. It was a giant joke, especially a black security guard yelling to the Peoples in the lot to get on the ground while guard stood about 150 feet away. I had a Charge Nurse later tell me to tell the on-duty CPD detectives to lock up their guns, and I told her they were on duty and would remain armed. Some time after leaving their employment, Advocate created armed security officers, although whether any made it to Christ is unknown.
I, a retired CPD officer with an IROCC card was taken to the hospital emergency room following an incident where I collapsed on the street. In the ER they found my gun on me. They called security and the officer asked to hold the gun till I left the hospital. The next morning his boss called the CPD to report I was carrying a gun. He turned the gun over to CPD. The officers came to my room and asked me what to do with it. I said meet my niece at my house and give it to her. They did that, game over. No paper, no muss, no fuss.
A few years back I had a similar situation at northwestern hospital. I ended up taking an injured officer there to have his hand looked at that was ripped open, Officer was told he couldn’t go into the ER with his weapon. I explained I was his supervisor and I would hold on to it and remain with him during treatment. I was told that both of us would need to secure our weapons, I refused. I asked if they were refusing to treat an injured on duty officer and she doubled down on the no weapons in the ER. I informed them this hospital is licensed by the city and that would be illegal not to treat him and asked to speak with the head nursing administrator and at that point the nurse did a 180 and backed down. Similar situation but a little different. I remember reading in an order they you should do a tofrom to legal affairs of this happens to you. Nevertheless, just reinforced what liberals and liberal institutions think of us. Enjoy your 1 and 2 percent raise too.
During summer especially,,St,Joseph, Northwestern Memorial Hospitals one can easily identify gun printing on the small of the backs of especially men bringing elderly parent etc. for appt.I cant say I blame them. .I'm sick and tired of these dumbass socialists wanting to disarm all of Us
Including Trained life saving Police Officers.Officers face life threatening situations to keep us safe and need the protection for Themselves
And Us. . This Hospital Policy makes no sense to me.If Police Officers have to be equipped to save the life of a heroin user overdose they can be equipped to save their lives and mine in other life threatening situations.Yes when a body has been laying on the front lawn of Saint Joseph Police officers are first an the scene not doctors,nurses,administrators or socialist activists. Armed Police Officers can visit me in the Hospital and around my home all they want and I will gladly Thank Them! A 13 yr old Girl gets shot 2 times in the stomach at 330 in the aftrnoon,and barely a peep,probably because its suspected she was the" unintended target" like the previous 7 yr old Girl shot on Halloween trick or treating. Why is this being allowed?This is not acceptable.Like we should feel sorry for the piece of shit attempted murderers that cant hit their target. WTF?.Where the hell is the outrage from city,county,state officials,Priests,Preachers,teachers? Did these scum shooters have FOID's,CCL's? One again not even old enough
to own a gun. Children getting shot down on the streets of Chicago and No Outrage. Its Sickening.I Pray for these Children, Their Families and The Chicago Police Officers placed in horrible situations while Serving and Protecting Us.
I love the comment about pulling an event number first a premise check- now it’s official police business!
Gotta appreciate thinking outside the box!!
And in a related matter, Northwestern Hospital has done the same in the past, not allowing on-duty CPD up to a floor to visit sick/injured family.
If you "surrender " your weapon does the receiver have:
a FOID card?
CCW training?
law enforcement training?
documented knowledge, skills and ability to handle a firearm?
What do they do with the gun?
Put it in a fie cabinet or drawer?
Is it locked? Who holds the key?
If there is an incident inside, outside or near the hospital
how quickly will you get weapon back?
Did the key holder "Run & Hide" with the security guards?
What's to stop a hospital staff member from "inspecting " the weapon?
Who is liable for the discharge: property damage, personal injury, death?
After all it is your weapon. I know of no law requiring you to turn over
your gun to anyone except jail, court or nut house.
What's to stop someone from stealing the gun?
These disarm the police scenarios are becoming more frequent.
I have read national stories of hospitals, schools, restaurants, stores, etc demanding
on duty, uniformed police officers to disarm before entering a premis.
FOP, both city & state must step in to legislate a solution that we all can "live" with.
Never Ever Relinguish you'r Weapon on Duty,If You are Called and they Ask You Too No Report leave.
All it takes is one anti-police liberal loon to squawk.
Some things shouldn’t be done anymore in uniform. The triggered get their willies ratting us out.
Off duty I never ask, ignore the signs and never, ever tell when asked.
They are private institutions and their obtuse Board sets the rules.
Most if not all normal staff would probably look away and go about there bidness appreciative of the police presence.
When SHTF there maybe you’ll be a hero but the next day you’ll be banned.
Doing ANYTHING in uniform is getting more sketchy everyday and that includes just standing in a coffee line or standing on the sidewalk.
GrootLoafer isn’t going to do anything but promote more anti-police pushback.
Why bother debating, challenging, arguing, venting objections to the guards, their supervisor or the hospital staff?
Any comments and interaction will only come back to judge you in the court of GrootCOPA.
Seems all the questions and comments can be answered by the departments order on the problem. This isn’t the first and won’t be the last time this type of incident occurs. Unfortunately while on duty you will have to adhere to what the departments order dictates. If the department doesn’t have an order, which I’m sure they do, then they should get one. Would also be surprised the order doesn’t cover your off duty actions, like it does about carrying a weapon while out drinking
Some memories I have responding to Mercy Hospital last year include. Security (no where to be found) during the incident. In fact, just afterwards, I did come across a female security guard having a panic attack in the ER and the other male guard consoling her, so they were worthless. Not too mention, asshole had been pacing around in their waiting area and just outside for hours. Not one of them thought to walk up and ask him what he was doing there while he was waiting to murder his ex?! The entire ER cleared out that day. No one left to even try to treat the victims. They all ran away, minus the Charge Nurse, she held it down the best she could. I’d say these other Hospital staffs should talk to anyone of the Mercy Staff about that day and see how they feel about unarmed police. Rest In Peace Officer Jimenez. Thank you for answering the call and backing us up that day.
... about: "It’s private property, there’s nothing that says they have to let you in armed. It’s incredibly stupid, but it’s their choice."
It is a private non-profit 503(c) entity, built with public funds, with $Billions stashed in the books. It is just an accounting scam leagalease bullshit terminology to socialise expense and privatize profit.
A private hospital is a hospital owned by a for-profit company or a non-profit company and privately funded through payment for medical services by patients themselves, by insurers, governments through national health insurance programs, or by foreign embassies.
more examples of the civil disrespect for the police by progressives. It is shameful.
Private property your not on official business disarm or leave why should you be better than someone with a carry license
So The sick or injured don't have to be deprived of a visit over any hospital's foolish policy, just say you are on official business and must interview the patient for a case.
Go when your off duty. No one will ever know your armed.
If this is their policy then you must abide by it. This is one reason why some people hate cops. Just telling the truth. So do not get butt hurt.
Didn't the Department or the FOP come out with something that stated an officer on-duty and in uniform was covered by State Law as not having to disarm unless entering a psychiatric treatment area of a hospital?
Labels: from the comments
Some of the finest supervisors reside in those psych wards...
Anonymous said...
That is the point. Hey want you to “feel it.” Even if it means their own lives. That’s how fucked up the thought process regarding the police is within the city.
You are not special! You are just like the rest of us! You will feel the pain and fear just like the rest of us. You will feel this even if it means disarming you in a life threatening situation were you could possible save our lives
11/04/2019 12:24:00 AM
This! 1000% times this!
I've been a copper for 22yrs. I have seen a lot of things change (Court, G.O.'s, laws, respect, parking, discounts etc.), usually for the worse.
The changes that have been made in the last 5 years or so have been filled with a certain vitriol based upon, what I believe, is vengeance.
Whats even worse is that "they" have gone too far, and they know it. "They" in their collected efforts at vengeance, are ruining their election chances, business opportunities, peace, safety in their neighborhoods etc.
That is the sacrifice they are willing to make to take down "The Boogie Man." They have been taught that this is who WE are at school and on certain T.V. shows, movies and news stations.
Visit on your own free time. Have your weapon concealed. No problem
You are an idiot, you are the Police on duty. Figure it out.
I tell ya, no respect, Sleepy Ed should of said no gun , no service, have a nice day. Or if you try
to disarm one of my officers the security guard and hospital administrator will be arrested.
This happened to me 15 years ago at Christ. I had visited my family member numerous times off-duty. I WAS ARMED EVERY SINGLE TIME! The hospital didn’t search me once when I was off-duty or ask me or anyone else entering the hospital if they were armed —-They didn’t know I was a police officer. The hospitals I’’ve been to don’t search anyone! They only take away guns from a Police Officer who is on-duty. I told them to “*ck off and called them idiots and explained that I’d been on the same floor and same room for 3 days and in the ER previously with my gun on me while in CD. That tells you everything you need to know about their liberal anti-police rules.
Arrest me!
These Hospitals are ran and staffed by assholes. Resurrection is among the worst, tho why anyone would go there is beyond me.
I worked with Norm and Rick in 019. Best wishes to him and I hope he slow's it down a bit. Norman is good people.
Thirty years ago my infant son was in Christ with a life threatening condition. I was at work when he was admitted and went directly there. Pediatric ICU personnel would not allow me in and called security to relieve my of my weapon and I was advised not to return in uniform. So this is nothing new
Social justice warriors and the hands up don’t shoot fantasy group are waging a war on legitimate gun owners and the police. These aholes Woukd becafraid to take an illegal gun away from the feral predators.
I was at University of Illinois on Taylor St. They'd been giving me the run around about my grandparent, so I start showing up on lunch in full duty uniform. Heard tge nasty female surgeon Dr who'd been dicking us around pull grams Primary Dr in thehall complain how she has a gun- I don't feel comfortable, I'm scared. He told her she's a cop! Chicago cop and she stats as is and if you don't like it do the damn procedure! hahaha to this day I can't thank him enough, procedure done next day without complication as I returned on my lunch time ') full duty uniform. Apparently, she was the only one who had the problem
I am civilian.to say I am pro police is a understatement.no one,and I mean,no one,should have the authority to demand a Chicago police officer turn in his\her weapon,regardless of location.this compromises my safety and my family's.what's next,coffee shops,movie theaters.shamefull,I hate the left more,and more,each day.
And now for the reason demorats will soon be shitting their knickers in unison,
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/us-media-carrying-buckets-muddy-water-coup-team
Gonna be a fun time for all!
Correct me if I am wrong but you may be referring to the 2019 June issue of the 'Fraternal Order of Police Chicago Lodge 7' official magazine where as described on page 18 Mr. Tim Grace writes an article titled: Can Copa Disarm the Police. Please refer to: http://online.flipbuilder.com/prsn/ntfl/mobile/index.html. In this article, the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act is referred to which allows "a qualified law enforcement officer to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise, at all times and in any location with few exceptions". I am not an attorney and correct me if I am wrong but after reviewing https://www.congress.gov/108/plaws/publ277/PLAW-108publ277.pdf - this law is stating that law enforcement officers (active and retired) are allowed to conceal carry as long as you have appropriate identification as a police officer. However, if state law allows private parties or government entities to restrict or prevent the carrying of firearms on their property, then you are not allowed to do that. IE: If concealed carry can be restricted in a restaurant because the restaurant is allowed to discriminate due to state law, then you can’t bring your firearm in. I cannot find any section that describes on-duty exceptions. I also haven't researched if there is state law that allows or disallows private persons or entities to disarm on-duty law enforcement. If anyone can help locate this please comment! In any case, being on-duty and being asked to secure your weapon is a huge safety issue like so many in this thread have pointed out.
7:55AM was it effective?
the gangs would routinely walk into the security areas of Northwestern Hospital and take a back elevator right up to the surgical floor when one of their homeies was shot. The nurses and doctors would really be surprised when they turned around and 3 or 4 shitheads were standing in the sterile operating room area. It was happening all of the time. Their security is a joke
I'm not CPD but we have run into this and we just politely tell them we cannot disarm and we are a complete packaged, no armed officer NO SERVICE. BYE
Anonymous said...
If this is their policy then you must abide by it. This is one reason why some people hate cops. Just telling the truth. So do not get butt hurt.
11/04/2019 12:29:00 PM
WRONG.
Anonymous said...
It’s private property, there’s nothing that says they have to let you in armed. It’s incredibly stupid, but it’s their choice.
11/04/2019 12:34:00 AM
WRONG, police are given wide latitude on many things. You cannot ask the police to disarm because you don't like guns. Sorry Charlie...….
Anonymous said...
I, a retired CPD officer with an IROCC card was taken to the hospital emergency room following an incident where I collapsed on the street. In the ER they found my gun on me. They called security and the officer asked to hold the gun till I left the hospital. The next morning his boss called the CPD to report I was carrying a gun. He turned the gun over to CPD. The officers came to my room and asked me what to do with it. I said meet my niece at my house and give it to her. They did that, game over. No paper, no muss, no fuss.
11/04/2019 09:34:00 AM
That's whats supposed to happen.
Had to go to the Social security office in Mt. Prospect this summer . So my big mistake was to ask the FPS police a question and tell them I was the police. First thing out of his mouth do u have a gun said yeb dont leve home without it.The officer says you have to leave and secured it, so I did got my business done. Said to myself what is going on with these young officers, because if something jump off I would had his 6.
Anonymous said...
Thirty years ago my infant son was in Christ with a life threatening condition. I was at work when he was admitted and went directly there. Pediatric ICU personnel would not allow me in and called security to relieve my of my weapon and I was advised not to return in uniform. So this is nothing new
11/04/2019 03:18:00 PM
Should have filed a lawsuit!
Anon said: That is the sacrifice they are willing to make to take down "The Boogie Man." They have been taught that this is who WE are at school and on certain T.V. shows, movies and news stations.
................
First step to tyranny is create: us vs them
It doesn't matter what the reason to polarize and divide a society- could be race, religion, sex or status. Hollywood, Media and Schools have been using any/all excuse to divide our Nation. They need us at war with eachother so they can remake the US into another Communist enslaved country. There is a lot of money to be made by destroying capitalism. Follow the money.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
In a perfect world, after DOJ locks up the coup plotters for SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY,
Anonymous said...
In a perfect world, after DOJ executes the coup plotters for TREASON,
There, fixed it for you.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Thirty years ago my infant son was in Christ with a life threatening condition. I was at work when he was admitted and went directly there. Pediatric ICU personnel would not allow me in and called security to relieve my of my weapon and I was advised not to return in uniform. So this is nothing new
Been to Lutheran General several times son was a admitted and members from his unit came in and nothing was said. It was summer and weapons were exposed. I believe it boils down to personality conflicts and it can be on either side. Some nurses are great, some have attitudes and in recent years new policies have been adapted for the hospitals and if a nurse works there she has to follow their directives and orders.
Let’s settle this and post the directive or order from the CPD
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Didn't the Department or the FOP come out with something that stated an officer on-duty and in uniform was covered by State Law as not having to disarm unless entering a psychiatric treatment area of a hospital?
Labels: from the comments
Some of the finest supervisors reside in those psych wards...
11/04/2019 12:49:00 PM
Find out and post the order or agreement. That will settle it
This happened to me 15 years ago at Christ. I had visited my family member numerous times off-duty. I WAS ARMED EVERY SINGLE TIME! The hospital didn’t search me once when I was off-duty or ask me or anyone else entering the hospital if they were armed —-They didn’t know I was a police officer. The hospitals I’’ve been to don’t search anyone! They only take away guns from a Police Officer who is on-duty. I told them to “*ck off and called them idiots and explained that I’d been on the same floor and same room for 3 days and in the ER previously with my gun on me while in CD. That tells you everything you need to know about their liberal anti-police rules.
11/04/2019 02:54:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Arrest me!
What happened 15 years ago has no bearing on the situation today. Times and the CPD and the laws have changed. What we need to know is what is the law or policy today
Do nothing more than what's required at these hospitals. Should anyone violate any city or traffic laws or just calls for service handle it accordingly. Remember, be "clinical" about it. Give them what they deserve and want.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Never Ever Relinguish you'r Weapon on Duty,If You are Called and they Ask You Too No Report leave.
When you go to cook county Jail or Statesville to interview an inmate do you keep your weapon or even the Juvenile detention facility.
Pretty sad day when the gangbangers with their pants down to their knees can walk into Christ Hospital without being accosted (while hiding their illegal guns in their crotch), but a police 👮 officer in full uniform (who has taken an oath to protect all) is treated like an untrustworthy PIG at the front door. These SJW and libtards need to go to hell. Cops need to keep their guns at ALL times. In liberal shithole of Chiraq, most would agree that “we’re not in Kansas anymore.”
Apparently this is part of a wider trend in Healthcare and
it's always done on the fly, copying other cities. They have
no real answers. Retired electrician took his wife in for
cancer care. First visit, they ask them both if they have
guns at home and know how to use them. Sometimes
a spouse will do a mercy killing at the hospital or go
after Doctors. So they want to know this stuff.
They never asked about guns as late as the 1990s.
They call this shit "best practices" to cover their asses.
No more, no less.
I’m a detective and whenever I have to conduct a follow up investigation at a hospital I would just go to the room where the person was and interview them, I refused to “secure” my weapon and did what I had to do then left.
Now if the person I had to speak to was in a psych ward then I would have the staff bring the person out of the ward and into another room and the staff remained with the person until my interview was done. In other words, if you’re on duty do not surrender your weapon.
One time I had to go into the psych ward to look inside of a room and the staff accomdated me by moving their patients to the opposite end of the ward because I refused to surrender my weapon (but I later learned it’s easier to go to the psych ward with a partner who could stay out and hold your weapon while you go into the ward but I still had my ankle holster on)
I went to the planetarium this last summer. Of course had my gun, they said I couldn’t bring it in, i showed them my star, they said I still couldn’t bring it in, to which I replied “I’m going to bring it in”. They called the security manager who was off duty CPD and had no problem. They can’t stop you from having your gun, even if they have their little policy
If you are off duty I'm afraid they can
Anonymous said...
You are an idiot, you are the Police on duty. Figure it out.
11/04/2019 02:01:00 PM
I’m sure it will come as a surprise, but this is merit sergeant with less than a year in grade on days in 019. Earned not given. Only the best and brightest.
Good luck 019
Off topic but worth a post for our
Chicago teachers can save 244 unused sick days, retire early under new contract
The tentative agreement raises the cap on accrued sick days from 40 to 244; some longtime teachers could use those days to retire a year early and still collect their full pension.
Sounds like ANOTHER TEACHER HATER How many hours can we amass and get paid for. The teacher are penalized 1/2 per cent for every month under the age of sixty they are ( 6% a year for under 60 yrs old) if they retire before sixty. They don't get paid for the 244
Did they tell the CPD “no guns” at Mercy Hospital during the last rampage there?
How about if you are assigned there to guard a prisoner?
8:45 PM
Police visiting CCJ or other prison put their weapon(s) in a locker and are given the key for later departure.
I would not hand over my duty weapon to someone who does not have a valid FOID for their safekeeping as I may be violating state
law. Some private properties prohibit weapons unless you are of course responding to a call, If a hospital is going to prohibit duly authorized law enforcement officers from carrying weapons on their property then they should provide a secure area where an officer can place his weapon in a locked locker and then take the key for that locker. Hospitals should also understand that by showing a lack of trust and respect will not win them any favors with the law enforcement community.
I have been a Bears season ticket holder for many years and have not gone to a game in several years because I will not turn over my off duty weapon to Monterey Security or any other security guard. I believe General order states that a Chicago Police Officer can only relinquish his weapon to another police officer. I refuse to give up my right as a police officer to conform with NFL policy. If Bears management had any sense ( the current Bears record speaks to that issue) or we lived in a non Democratic environment like Texas, we might have a Police Superintendant with a pair of balls who would say like they did in Texas that “ NFL policy does not supersede Texas law”. Peace officers are now allowed to carry their weapons on or off duty in sports stadiums in Texas.
Any hospital that accepts Medicare for funding is no longer private. F**K that. Giving my weapon to a rent-a-cop? No. I'm not going trust that turd for one thing. The other reason(s) have to do with accountability and liability. Just like the military, one does not surrender his firearm to those that are not authorized to do so by chain of command. Security guard is having a bad day, decides to go out in a blaze of glory with a Department sidearm? And just what would the City's liability on that one? Especially if he wiped out an ICU (think of the Oxygen tanks, for example). A Department weapon, or any weapon for that matter should not be surrendered to a nameless clown under dubious authority. The liability issue alone is mind-boggling.
nonymous said...
Private property your not on official business disarm or leave why should you be better than someone with a carry license
11/04/2019 11:55:00 AM
Now, here is a stupid comment from a troll. People with a private CCL do not have the power of arrest and are not sworn police officers, thats why, you goof. A jail can request an on duty officer to secure their weapons and that is much different from a private institution such as a hospital. I have entered CCJ many times and had no problem securing my weapon. It is too easy to get overwhelmed by inmates in that place. Each and every time I was relieved to get the hell out of there. My respect for the officers working there. You are not paid enough.
How is Norman doing?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How about if you are assigned there to guard a prisoner?
11/04/2019 11:00:00 PM
Wow. Type slow for this guy.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
8:45 PM
Police visiting CCJ or other prison put their weapon(s) in a locker and are given the key for later departure.
11/04/2019 11:11:00 PM
That’s what they do at the sports venues or the hospital, but the point was you gave up your weapon.
Before I retired, my last assignment was captain of the city hall security deail in an Oklahoma city. The City Council, Mayor, and Department heads set up "City Government in Your Neighborhood" meetings in schools, churches, libraries, and the local community colleges. We had to set up security for those meetings just like regular city council meetings with metal detectors, etc. At one school (before the school system got their own PD) I had an unarmed security officer come up to tell me that we couldn't be armed in the school. I advised her to file a report with her superiors and to stay out of our way. Our chief came through to represent the department at the meeting, and the little security guard ran up to him as he was going into the auditorium. She complained to him about us, completely missing the Glock on his duty belt, and he gently told not to interfere with us or she could be arrested. Good times.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Visit on your own free time. Have your weapon concealed. No problem
11/04/2019 01:07:00 PM
Thank You
Chicago teachers can save 244 unused sick days, retire early under new contract
The tentative agreement raises the cap on accrued sick days from 40 to 244; some longtime teachers could use those days to retire a year early and still collect their full pension.
Sounds like ANOTHER TEACHER HATER How many hours can we amass and get paid for. The teacher are penalized 1/2 per cent for every month under the age of sixty they are ( 6% a year for under 60 yrs old) if they retire before sixty. They don't get paid for the 244
11/04/2019 09:57:00 PM
Yes F U CPS we we can strike, wiyth pay and openly say fuck cps and give warnings to everyone everyday about the sexual predators praying on the children of CPS
etc...
went to the planetarium this last summer. Of course had my gun, they said I couldn’t bring it in, i showed them my star, they said I still couldn’t bring it in, to which I replied “I’m going to bring it in”. They called the security manager who was off duty CPD and had no problem. They can’t stop you from having your gun, even if they have their little policy
If you are off duty I'm afraid they can
11/04/2019 09:48:00 PM
I do wonder, are you the stroke that clearl4has the gun and star protruding out of your shirt so EVERYBODY knows u da poleece? i hate when motherf*ckers intentionally do this and act surprised like oh! you can see them? smh
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How about if you are assigned there to guard a prisoner?
11/04/2019 11:00:00 PM
Wow. Type slow for this guy.
11/05/2019 08:11:00 AM
Pretty sure it was a rhetorical question. Of course you have your gun then. So WTF is the difference between a uniformed officer having a gun while guarding a prisoner versus visiting a patient?
Many moons ago, an off duty officer went to visit his mother at Rush. He was wearing an FOP jacket. The guard would not let him in if he was wearing a gun while off duty.
I was called and spoke to their supervisor. To his credit, the officer did not reveal his duty status. I told the supervisor that I was satisfied with the officer's duty status.
When the supervisor asked what his status was, I told him I was satisfied and that is all he needed to know. I asked the guard when obvious gangbangers come in, do they ask them if they are armed.
The supervisor asked if he could leave his gun in the car. I ordered the officer not to do that. The supervisor then said that they had gun safes. Since the location was not monitored by sworn law enforcement of any kind, I said that was unacceptable.
Finally, the officer visited his mother without any further delay. The head of Rush security complained to the DC of 012 at the time. Ralphie called me in and said that I should cooperate with businesses in the community. That for me was the beginning of the end.
Are hospitals, "licensed premises" under the city ordinance?
Rb
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