Thursday, February 14, 2008

A Closer Look at 12 Hours

LONG POST. Read it all.

Now that everyone has had their say in the previous entry, let's step back and look at a few of the nuggets that we've gleaned.

First up, FOP has NOT said they won't look at anything. Here's Donahue's quote since it seems a number of people are making up quotes again to further a political agenda:
  • Fraternal Order of Police President Mark Donahue said the union is open to discussing it, with some reservation. In 2004, the department experimented with a 10-hour shift.

    "Twelve hours in a beat car in Chicago -- in most areas of the city -- is a very long work day. It has worked in other areas of the country. But it's something that has to be analyzed," said Donahue, who is pushing for a fixed schedule of six-days-on and three-days-off in contract talks with the city.

"open to discussing it." "has to be analyzed." These are legit concerns. And as someone pointed out, this is a contractual issue, subject to negotiation. The City isn't going to say, "Here's a 12 hour day! Live Long and Prosper!" The City is going to want something - actually, a lot of somethings. Here's a list we've come up with and others have noted:
  • P-Days and BFD's - The City is not going to give you 4 Personal Days and 3,4,5 or 6 BFD's under a 12 hour schedule. They are going to demand concessions. They did the same thing under the 10 hour day proposal that didn't pass. The City wanted people to give up one P-Day and more than one BFD.
  • Furloughs - 20 straight days or 24 working days? Gone. The City is going to demand everyone go down to 12 vacation days or less with increases only for service time. It's been proposed before. The City will recycle this idea.
  • Federal Labor Law - We aren't experts on Labor Law, but we're pretty sure that there are certain rules that must be followed for a 12 hour day, namely a second lunch or a third personal. Will this be considered "unpaid" as lunch always has in the past? And if so, are they going to try to stick it in everyone's asses by checking off 30 minutes past the hour? That's 30 minutes out of your already shortened down time if you aren't on your Friday. Also, FLSA will come into play.
  • Overtime and Court - Late pinch or morning in court after a 12 hour day. Truckers are under certain restrictions for driving extended period of time. We spend a large percentage of our time behind the wheel AND we carry a gun. Truckers can fudge log books and use uppers to stay alert - we have sugar and caffeine. What is our liability and the City's if a sleepy cop makes a bad decision?
  • Start times - Multiple start times? You can't have all the cars down while we switch over. So if it's 6am to 6pm or 8am to 8pm, that will be three straight days you don't see your kids if you have them. Three straight days without seeing the spouse might be appealing to some cops, but not all.
  • Duty Availability and Uniform Allowances - If you don't think there isn't a bean counter in the basement of City Hall figuring out how much less wear and tear there will be on your uniforms or how much less you'll actually be "available" due to Federal Labor Laws restricting how many hours you can actually be on call, think again. In December there was an aldercreature looking to cut Duty Availability because we weren't technically "available" in an emergency.
Now, some of the good points:
  • Let's just say we agree that the sixth day sucks ass. And please, call it "the sixth day." People who say "six day work week" are blurring the issue and confusing readers. We work five days a week but six days in a row. If we didn't, only certain people would ever see weekends. Anything that eliminates the sixth day is good.
  • Immediate alleviation of the manpower shortage. With only two shifts, you still pick up a bunch of bodies to man cars. The counter point is there aren't going to be enough cars to go around if Fleet keeps failing to maintain pool cars.
  • While not seeing family for three days straight, seeing them for four days later might make up for it. Again, it needs to be explored.
  • Side job opportunities - This could be huge. If we know coppers, there are a couple of sharp ones already looking into setting up some schedules where their people can work two or more of those four days off. With four days off, you can even do some graveyard gigs and still catch up on sleep before headed back to work. This could be an economic boon to hundreds of guys and gals looking to improve their financial situations. Perhaps the FOP could re-visit the Boston method where side jobs at malls and sporting events are dealt with EXCLUSIVELY through the Lodge, providing a steady work load.
We're sure that the comments here and elsewhere will point out more pluses and minuses to the entire endeavor. The City could potentially save millions on overtime (court and CAPS being on duty) while having to lay our more money to maintain a larger fleet. Inside spots and School Officers would have to be dealt with separately along with Tact/Gang manpower and Units that never worked an eight hour day to begin with. Same thing with continuing investigations in the D Unit (you can't have a heater case lying around while the dicks are on their four days off).

The side job thing would be the biggest sticking point for the City. Daley wants wage slaves. He wants you broke and demoralized, not financially comfortable and with a good attitude. That's one of the reasons the City canceled the ten hour day experiment - too many people liked it so the City figured they ought to have the FOP negotiate to give something up to get it back.

Continue to discuss. We're withholding judgment until we see the proposals in writing, see what is offered, and most importantly, see what is surrendered to get any changes.

Labels:

114 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Count me out on the 12 hour days. Leave house at 7:30am start at 8:00am. Check off at 8:30pm get home by 9:00pm. Eat shower and go to bed. Oh but wait,I've gotta do this two more days in a row. Three days a week without any life outside work ie; kids,wife,t.v exercise,housework. You gotta be friggen nuts.

2/13/2008 11:18:00 PM  
Anonymous 29 years and a day and gone said...

I know that some young police oficer who arrived on the job 4 years ago just in time to save the entire dept from drowning will call me an old man and tell me to go back to sleep

And Im no fan of the current administration at FOP

BUT I will tell you that if you can get 6 on and 3 off you will be doing yourselves a favor

Hell, I may come out of retirement

2/13/2008 11:26:00 PM  
Anonymous 29 years and a day said...

29 and a day here again

I bet the schedule would be 3 days on one week 4 days on the next

It couldnt be 3 on 4 off.


reasons...

The work week wouldnt be long enough and two the scheduling wouldnt work out right
Who workd the odd day

six on and three off is good.

4 on and two off which is the same thing is better

2/13/2008 11:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give up a personal day and a couple baby furlough days for the 3day work week?

Done.

I would even let them cut down furlough time from 25 days. Not down to 12 though. Maybe down to like 18-20 days.

We will never get residency so I won't even mention it. Not to mention not all coppers want residency lifted.

2/13/2008 11:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A plus is they will be making sure all stations are up to code... that is installing GFI receptacles in all the locker rooms to make it safer and prevent circuit over load when all the salty old timers have to come back in to blow dry and feather their hair. Also, cheesy mustache wax will be available.

2/13/2008 11:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SMOKE AND MIRRORS people cant you see its very easy J-Fed says this so he looks like the good guy to all his new troops "go spend time with your families" but on the other hand daley says no and still looks like the bad guy..but everyone still loves J-Fed for "really trying" there just pulling the old good cop bad cop on us..WAKE UP this is still chicago and run by the daley machine..meet the new boss same as the old boss!!!!

2/13/2008 11:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Be careful what you wish for.

2/13/2008 11:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe we could have the brain surgeons at Northwestern who love to analyze data and forced us with the traffic stop statistical study do something for us in return and use their super intellect to work out a work schedule that eliminates to sixth working day.

2/13/2008 11:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

doesnt matter to me. im in d.o.g. 9 ( sun/mon ) ha ha ha. good luck to all you cry baby coppers. 90% of you couldnt even get on another dept. everyone looks like shit, act way too unprofessional. cpd will hire any moron or dog with 2 years of school and a clean back ground. sometimes not even that. how could any of you even take this job serious? all i read is coppers crying. no pdt, crappy radio etc. who cares? you got po's walking around with braids, earrings (male and female,) some with white trash tatoo's all over their arms, uniform shirt untucked. this place is a joke! who cares who shoots who, who steals what etc. nobody in this dept takes this job serious so why even bother. i hang out all day with my partner and do little as possible and we have fun and laugh. im all for backing up co-workers etc who actually like working and think theyre doing something. everyone goes home safe is whats important. these bosses dont care. where i work the tact team is a joke! officers on tact that never even had a gun pinch and they are tact? they go and get a crim trespass and thats it? lifes to short to be crying about this job. if you dont have a phone call chances are your gonna be a bitter complaining old-timer like you see now. do you really think cpd owe's you somethg or bow down to you cause you have 15-20 years on the job? no! go to work and have fun. laugh! i know some of you will say im a dog ass etc. not true. if something falls in my lap or something is so obvious then fine. but thats it. no one likes us. this isnt the job i thought it was. wow good for you, you got a gun pinch. you just saved the life of some mutt gang banger he was otw to shoot! enjoy...dont forget to do your cage report! take it deep and god bless all.

2/14/2008 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First thing I’ll do if we change over to 10 or 12 hour days:
1) sell my house and by a 3 flat in the ghetto so I can say I live there, while first and second floor section 8 tenants pays my mortgage.
2) buy a nice big house in the suburbs on a nice piece of land.
3) save thousands on vehicle & house insurance not to mention City stickers, cook county taxes etc etc etc
This is going to be great!!!

2/14/2008 12:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just curious, maybe been on the southside too long. IS there anyone working the 10 hour shift now or is that over and done with??? If so has /was their furlough or PD's and BFD's adjusted???

2/14/2008 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Be careful......Contractually(sp)speaking you never get something without giving something up!

2/14/2008 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

READER'S DIGEST version: Some good about it, some bad...We'll see.

2/14/2008 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Start times - Multiple start times? You can't have all the cars down while we switch over. So if it's 6am to 6pm or 8am to 8pm, that will be three straight days you don't see your kids if you have them. Three straight days without seeing the spouse might be appealing to some cops, but not all.





My wife is CPD also. We are expecting our first child. Both of us have under 10 yrs on. Both of us will get the graveyard shift if it is chosen by seniority. 3 watches are good for OPTIONS. Different districts have different watch seniorities. That will be gone with a 2 watch system. Anyone one in any district with less than 15 yrs probably will be sent to the night shift. Babysitting will be a huge problem if we both have to work 5 pm - 5 am like Naperville PD does.

Other options might be better 5 on 2 off then 5 on 3 off ... or the 10 hr days that Housing liked.

I say no to 12 hr days.

2/14/2008 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lets see... after about 7 hours in the ghetto, Im ready to run people over. After 12 hours in the ghetto, I will have run several people over...

2/14/2008 12:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Almost every suburban cop I know is on the 12 hour shift. Not one has ever said anything bad about it other than getting a little tired around the 10th hour. You get every other weekend off (3 days) and at the most you only work three days in a row. This shift will not cost the City money. This will give people more time off from this shithole job. Why anyone would be against this is beyond me. 10 hours are good, but usually you have set days off (4 on 3 off) and you might not see a weekend for years. Actually, why do I give a shit, I'm leaving CPD soon to go work for a real department that has 12 hour shifts, professionalism, no residency, high morale, and better pay.

2/14/2008 12:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We researched the 12hr day back in the 70's. The findings were that anything beyond 10 hrs caused a sharp rise in accidental injuries and beyond 11 hrs the rate was unacceptable. I'm sure those study results are still around on the inernet.

2/14/2008 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's have the 10 hour a day old housing schedule. It workedfor them, will work in patrol, and even in units. More days off, city gets more "working" hours.

This is all a moot point because the Super was on TV tonight saying, " I just through that out there because of something an officer said at roll call in 021. There are no plans for anything..." So much for 6th day salvation...

2/14/2008 12:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 hours days means two watches right? So what happens to the leftover 25 Captains that don't have a Watch to Command??

Guess Daley might have to make more gold stars or this bird won't fly!

(... ohhhh and the Pension takes another hit! Down goes Pension, Down goes Pension!!)

2/14/2008 12:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucky the FOP doesn't make as quick of decisions as most of the coppers on this blog. I DON'T want to give up any vacation days, BFD or personal days. And I WANT my duty availability pay. How about changing the name of the "DUTY AVAILABILTY" pay to "HAZARDOUS DUTY" pay like some other departments. Because if they EVER give up residency. You can kiss that duty availabilty pay goodbye amoungst other things. "Chicago will never give without receiving"

2/14/2008 12:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wondering...would that be the end of working 99. If not, does that mean the city doen't have to hire for a while. We would have all the cars on the street with less officers working. Wow the mayor could buy more flower pots.

2/14/2008 01:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The City is going to want something - actually, a lot of somethings. Here's a list we've come up with and others have noted:
---------------------------



Daley wants us to quit f-ing up and ruining the Olymipc bid. His best bet to help this occur would be to lift the residency rule and scatter us to the wind like the project people. If it was good for them why not us??

2/14/2008 01:13:00 AM  
Blogger Murphy40Pct said...

Ask any copper with the 12 hour schedule...they would not give it up for anything. That's all the study you need.

2/14/2008 02:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As some one stated in an earlier post the city is following the new chicago motto "DOING MORE WITH LESS" Less cars in the fleet, fewer cars that work, less computers, less pdts, less sgts, less det. and bottom. line LESS P.O'S It sounds good to follow their mantra "I would be at work less", but they have a plan to get more work out of us. Based on our current schedule 48 hours spread over two diffenernt weeks is STILL SIX DAYS IN A ROW YA DUMBASSES. I had given a proposal about Mount Prospects schedule which is 8 hour days 5 on 2 off 5 on 3 off every other weekend is three days three shifts, no bull shit. We should look at getting paid time and a half for the 40th through the 48th hour, then you would see city hall jump up and make some changes. Check with any other city job who has a Union and see what they would say/do about working 48 hours a week. PAY ME!! I s what they would yell. We need change. As far as vacation time P.D.'s and B.D.'s they will not look it as days but as hours you have to use, that would be the fair way. Look forward to your responses.

2/14/2008 02:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a bad idea. C'mon, there isn't any other way to eliminate the 6th work day ? BULLSHIT. 4 on 2 off still allows for the 5 day work week, but, with no 3 day weekends. As we all get older, sometimes we don't get the rest that we need and get tired 5 or 6 hours into a tour...can you imagine getting tired and still having 6 hours left to stay alert, to protect yourself and your partner, and make life or death decisions, only to have some boss or board member tell you that you fucked up because you were tired ? There are many other options, but, the city refuses to give us a reasonable work schedule...and some of us still produce revenue for the city ?????

2/14/2008 02:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait for 12 hours,this 6 day shit blows. Everyone hates it and it does make you all stressed out. I have to drink on my sixth day to unwind,who doesn't?

2/14/2008 02:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm would much rather the four
10hr days than the 3/12 and i think when most of us sit back and really think about 12 straight hours in a beat car, they'd agree. But if it's between what we have now(this complete bullshit 6days on 2 off) and the 3/12, i'll gladly take the 3/12.

2/14/2008 03:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just did some internet searching and i can't find one other big city in the county that has the same schedule as us.

I can't even imagine how this started, but it must have been some alderman or mayor's idea of a sick joke. This schedule is just really terrible. Most of endure it b/c the pay is good and we really enjoy what we do, but the time has definitely come for a change.
I say the FOP put out a ballot and we all take a vote. PUT THIS IN OUR NEXT CONTRACT. Enough is enough. Just look at the response this issue is garnering, it's at the top of all of wish lists. What is the problem. Please, we beg you, fight for us on this one.

2/14/2008 03:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 1/2 hour days will be a BITCH when you have to SWIPE in and out!

2/14/2008 03:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So do we get two lunches and four personals? Each tour? If they do that, TRU will break the bank of all the good spots to eat!

2/14/2008 03:39:00 AM  
Anonymous shavedlongcock@yahoo.com said...

I might have a 5 o'clock shadow by the time the tour is up!

2/14/2008 03:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i can see it working out for patrol(beat cars, rapaids) where most of the youngsters are allready.
just be sure to leave enough positions(tact/gang, inside assignments) as they are for those whose personal life reqire it.
i would leave tact and go back to the watch for 10 or 12 hr days.

2/14/2008 04:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FUCK IT! LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS. IF IT NOT BROKEN DON'T FIX IT!
IF YOU WANT TO FIX MORALE GET SOME REAL WHITE SHIRTS THAT HAVE BEEN THE POLICE ,NOT SAME HOUSE MOUSE. HOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE 20CRS. GETTING SOME REAL PDTS THAT WORK. AND HOW ABOUT HIRING MORE P.O.'S TO MAN THE CARS( NOT FOR THE COMMUNITY),BUT FOR OFFICER SAFETY!

2/14/2008 04:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In housing, I believe we kept the same number of BFD's and PD's but they were still only 8 hours. If you took a BFD or PD you had to also use 2 hours comp time. I could live with that.

2/14/2008 04:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you look at the contract proposal, the FOP has again proposed a 10 hour work day.

You forgot to mention, only for RAPIDS!

2/14/2008 06:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After all that has been said, it's not gonna happen.

12 hours in a beat car would blow big time. Does that mean that tact would work 6 then?

2/14/2008 06:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 hours in a ratty stink smelling squad car that has no cushion in the seat with a broken lumbar. No thanks. I can barely make throught the 8 hours. 10 hour days...maybe but then I want 4 10 hour days and 4 days off.

If we give the city anything for change that would lift morale we are fools.

again I say just stop. Answer your calls and write paper for everything you can. NO REVENUE.

2/14/2008 06:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a side business. Being off every other weekend would be great IM IN!

2/14/2008 07:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roger Clemens TESTI-LIED to Congress. Doesn't his little trainer buddy look like Andy Dick?

2/14/2008 07:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love the fact it seems like Jody's first thing on his agenda is to boost morale!!!!

2/14/2008 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No law enforcement agency can succeed without accurate and timely intelligence, and you will learn that the members of the community are your best source of information," Weis said.

Right out of the G playbook...
Boys & girls..if you think you had seen your share of snitches and clout tactics.hold on tight...the coming culture will make the past 50 years look like a vatican convention.

2/14/2008 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why doesn't someone ask somebody that works the schedule before crapping all over it. Keep this schedule and when you retire collect your couple checks and die. We have the worst schedule for a police department just check with the sheriffs, state etc, not to mention the time needed to retire with the max.

2/14/2008 08:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great job to the P.O's that saved the people in Cabrini.
Now WTF to Daley? $25 million to rehab a damn fountain, and we dont have a fucking contract?
You couldnt give us the much less amount to finish our Gold Star memorial park!! Yet you now say what a great idea you had in making it!! You sir are a complete asshole.

2/14/2008 08:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

your days done whether you work eight or twelve. I go in at 10 and get off at 6. what can be accomplished before getting ready at 9am and getting home after 640pm. The days gone why not get 4 whole days off, heck add a day to that and you have a week off.

2/14/2008 08:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hell I don't mind the 6 day work week shit I will work 7 days I love this job so much. I can be home every to see my family. Loosers 12 hours means 3 days off in a row without any work. DO YOU UNDERSTAND you don't have to tell your kids "dad has to go to work" SURE YOU DON'T SEE YOUR FAMILY THAT MUCH FOR A FEW DAYS BUT THEN YOU GET TO BE WITH THEM FOR 3 IN A ROW. YOU CAN TAKE A TRIP TO THE DELLS OR VEGAS AND NOT BURN ANY TIME. WAKE UP LOOSERS.

2/14/2008 08:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"open to discussing it." "has to be analyzed." I was one of the 10hr guys and was never asked anything about it! Everyone im my district loved it and wanted it to stay and expand to other watches. I went to the town hall meeting with the old super and asked him what happen to the 10hr day? He stated " it was a trial program and is now ended and know nothing else about it " See I would have to say by talking to alot of other officers in other districts that also worked th 10hr day that it had to be over 95% of us liked the 10hr day. maybe that was what was wrong...we liked it! As for the FOP the meeting after the 10hr was taken away was packed with officers who wanted to know why it was taken away, FOP had no Idea?? or did they?

2/14/2008 08:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If you look at the contract proposal, the FOP has again proposed a 10 hour work day.

You forgot to mention, only for RAPIDS!

===================================

If rapids get it, I get it. A small number of PO's should not get something the rest of us don't.

2/14/2008 08:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SSC said:

The City isn't going to say, "Here's a 12 hour day! Live Long and Prosper!" The City is going to want something - actually, a lot of somethings.

Who proposed the 12 hr. day?? JFED (The City). I say what will they give us to accept their proposal.

2/14/2008 09:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People keep writing that the cops in the suburbs love 12 hour days, no disrespect to them but they never worked on the southside or westside, 12 hours in a beat car car is way to much, but i do agree we need something new

2/14/2008 09:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it means 12 vacation days? No I will work this 6 day week we got now. Wecant give up too much for what we would like. Plus its all bullshit talk right now anyway.

2/14/2008 09:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city should take back some officers duty availablity. Like the ones that work Mon-Fri on days. And don't have to work holidays. What are they available for? Not that I am a hater or anything but if those where my hours who cares. If you want the money work in a reg Police DOG.

2/14/2008 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous read the fine print said...

Somewhere in the bowels of Shitty Hall a bean counter is salivating, praying we'll fight tooth and nail for the 12-hour work day. Sure, if the 12-hour work day happens, we'll finally have what each of us rightfully deserve, more consecutive days off. Collectively, though, we'll be screwing ourselves in the future.

Think about it. The economy is shit, our pension is woefully underfunded, and health care costs are spiraling out of control. In the not-too-distant future, the City will go into "give-us-wholesale-contract-concessions or we'll-be-bankrupt-next-year" mode via a binding arbitration process that will be forced down our throats. The FOP clowns would sell their souls for the right price, and a 12-hour work day suits their needs nicely.

Does anyone honestly believe Shitty Hall will accept a 12-hour work day, or ANY change to our work schedule, in a form that doesn't ultimately reduce our already dangerously-low District manpower allocations?

By getting us to initially agree to a 12-hour work day and THEN redrawing the Districts, the City will be able to incrementally decrease each District's manpower requirements. More TRU-type deployment nonsense and hiring freezes will be the order of the day. All this will ultimately result in EVEN LESS CPD MANPOWER CITYWIDE than we currently have.

Da Mayor will thus become a revenue-saving hero to a new generation of Norshore Neanderthals, and most CPD won't realize what was agreed to until it's too late.

Be careful what you wish for...

2/14/2008 09:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Maybe we could have the brain surgeons at Northwestern who love to analyze data and forced us with the traffic stop statistical study do something for us in return and use their super intellect to work out a work schedule that eliminates to sixth working day.

2/13/2008 11:54:00 PM


Anonymous said...
doesnt matter to me. im in d.o.g. 9 ( sun/mon ) ha ha ha. good luck to all you cry baby coppers. 90% of you couldnt even get on another dept. everyone looks like shit, act way too unprofessional. cpd will hire any moron or dog with 2 years of school and a clean back ground. sometimes not even that. how could any of you even take this job serious? all i read is coppers crying. no pdt, crappy radio etc. who cares? you got po's walking around with braids, earrings (male and female,) some with white trash tatoo's all over their arms, uniform shirt untucked. this place is a joke! who cares who shoots who, who steals what etc. nobody in this dept takes this job serious so why even bother. i hang out all day with my partner and do little as possible and we have fun and laugh. im all for backing up co-workers etc who actually like working and think theyre doing something. everyone goes home safe is whats important. these bosses dont care. where i work the tact team is a joke! officers on tact that never even had a gun pinch and they are tact? they go and get a crim trespass and thats it? lifes to short to be crying about this job. if you dont have a phone call chances are your gonna be a bitter complaining old-timer like you see now. do you really think cpd owe's you somethg or bow down to you cause you have 15-20 years on the job? no! go to work and have fun. laugh! i know some of you will say im a dog ass etc. not true. if something falls in my lap or something is so obvious then fine. but thats it. no one likes us. this isnt the job i thought it was. wow good for you, you got a gun pinch. you just saved the life of some mutt gang banger he was otw to shoot! enjoy...dont forget to do your cage report! take it deep and god bless all.

2/14/2008 12:03:00 AM



I don't recall writing this?
Just thinking that.

2/14/2008 09:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
As some one stated in an earlier post the city is following the new chicago motto "DOING MORE WITH LESS" Less cars in the fleet, fewer cars that work, less computers, less pdts, less sgts, less det. and bottom. line LESS P.O'S It sounds good to follow their mantra "I would be at work less", but they have a plan to get more work out of us. Based on our current schedule 48 hours spread over two diffenernt weeks is STILL SIX DAYS IN A ROW YA DUMBASSES. I had given a proposal about Mount Prospects schedule which is 8 hour days 5 on 2 off 5 on 3 off every other weekend is three days three shifts, no bull shit. We should look at getting paid time and a half for the 40th through the 48th hour, then you would see city hall jump up and make some changes. Check with any other city job who has a Union and see what they would say/do about working 48 hours a week. PAY ME!! I s what they would yell. We need change. As far as vacation time P.D.'s and B.D.'s they will not look it as days but as hours you have to use, that would be the fair way. Look forward to your responses.

2/14/2008 02:05:00 AM


We do get payed overtime for every hour over 40 in a week. What were you drinking tonight. Did you know you are supposed submit a OT slip to get it?

2/14/2008 09:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can hear the wife now, "you have 4 days off in a row and all you do is sit around here doing nothing! Why don't you retile the bathroom or something." And they think I will drink less with a 12 hour shift? What do you think I will be doing when I have four days off and nothing to do?

2/14/2008 09:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WELL EVERYONE'S SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, AND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE 2 WORKING PARENTS ON OPPOSITE SHIFTS (WHETHER POLICE/NON-POLICE), EACH TAKING A TURN WATCHING THEIR KIDS, GETTING THEM TO SCHOOL ETC. WHILE THE OTHER IS AT WORK IS MURDER...YOU'D BE LUCKY TO GET 3 HOURS OF STRAIGHT SLEEP UNDER 12 HR DAY..BUT SOME MAY LIKE IT...JUST TRY TO ELININATE 6 DAYS IN A ROW..

2/14/2008 10:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Less is not more said...

If we go to 12-hour work days, we obviously lose a watch. As a result, how much manpower would not be needed in a district with 270 PO's? 20? 50? In light of the on-going economic meltdown, the city no doubt would push for layoffs as a "cost containment" measure...

2/14/2008 10:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HE GOT THE IDEA FROM GOING TO 021? I GUESS DRIVING AROUND 021 FOR 12HRS AND STILL DOING NOTHING APPEALS TO THOSE WHO WORK IN "THE LAND OF MIS-FIT TOYS.." 021...

2/14/2008 10:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, why do I give a shit, I'm leaving CPD soon to go work for a real department that has 12 hour shifts, professionalism, no residency, high morale, and better pay.
-----------THE COUNTY???

2/14/2008 10:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait for 12 hours,this 6 day shit blows. Everyone hates it and it does make you all stressed out. I have to drink on my sixth day to unwind,who doesn't?

2/14/2008 02:09:00 AM

You know what else will blow if WE get 12hrs?? Your vacation, Your BFD and your personal days. Who knows what else! And if you HAVE to drink on your 6th day.....You will probably come to work drunk when working 12's

2/14/2008 10:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

YOU CAN TAKE A TRIP TO THE DELLS OR VEGAS AND NOT BURN ANY TIME. WAKE UP LOOSERS.
--------why would you take your kids to vegas??

2/14/2008 10:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:09 AM [the "LOOSER"(sic)]

We can alway spot you. You've got to be the only poster who puts a double "O" in the word "LOSERS".

2/14/2008 11:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would like the 10 hour day or even the 12 hour day, i would not like the 6 day on 3 off crap. the reason to even get a new schedule is to get rid of the 6th day and the FOP is trying to get us nothing but 6 days, where in the hell did they decide this is what we wanted??? there has to be soem kind of schedule where we could do 8 hour days without 6 days if not the do the 10 hours that everyone wants.

2/14/2008 11:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah I agree that the 6th day needs to go. I think that has to be working coppers biggest concern. As far as 12 hr days, it does have to be looked into a bit. there are positives and negatives, but if u think the city is going to say here u go, have 4 days off and not demand that we give shit up, then u been drinking the dick daley flavored kool aid too much. The city isnt offering to help us unless they get helped in return. Lets be fucking serious here people. Also, Im not one of those selfish coppers that only thinks of myself, i want this to work for all coppers or at least a large majority. Same goes for pension issues and the likes, stop always thinking of yourselves and start thinking of every copper in blue. Its a main reason the city CAN fuck with us and screw us in contract time, they read this shit and know they have us by the balls, we cant stick together for shit!

2/14/2008 11:29:00 AM  
Anonymous the rock said...

This copper in 021 that gave Jfed this bright idea must of just got on the job with no responsibilities and lives at home. I guess you dont want to live long long enough to see your pension...if its still around. now have a drink here its kool-aid go ahead its delicious!!!!

2/14/2008 11:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
FUCK IT! LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS. IF IT NOT BROKEN DON'T FIX IT!

===================================
"it" is so far broken, it will take a long time to fix it. this is a fine place to start.

2/14/2008 11:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/14/2008 12:29:00 AM

OK! It doesn't work for you, so let's shit-can it! You are an IDIOT!

2/14/2008 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't imagine dealing with these white shirts for 12 hours a day.

2/14/2008 12:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I felt a need to post a response since I have had experience for several years with a department I worked for prior to coming to CPD. That department worked 12hour shifts. The shifts have you working Mon. Tues. Fri. Sat. Sun. one week, and only Wed. Thurs. the next week. Every other week you had Friday Saturday Sunday off. One day out of the two week period was only an 8 hour shift. 30 min. Lunch is included in the twelve hours as well as 2 personals. There are four shifts, 6a to 6p. 7a to 7p. 3p to 3a and 7p to 7a. You double your man power from 3p to 3a and actually dramatically reduce your workload. Contractually you can not be forced to work more than 16 hours in a 24 hour period (which could be reduced further through negotiations). Dicks were on a different schedule. I can not stress how much more satisfying a twelve hour day is. I would describe it as being semi retired. Only working 15 days a month and burning possibly as little as 20 hours to have 7 days off, not to mention being able to spend 15, instead of 6 days a month with family and friends that aren't on the job... plus every other weekend is a 3 day weekend for ALL patrolmen. Count me in.

2/14/2008 12:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: 2/14/2008 12:03:00 AM

Amen brother, Hold my ballz.

2/14/2008 12:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10 fine....12 NO WAY!

2/14/2008 12:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
"No law enforcement agency can succeed without accurate and timely intelligence, and you will learn that the members of the community are your best source of information," Weis said.

Right out of the G playbook...

2/14/2008 07:48:00 AM

Don't let your federal paranoia cloud your judgement. Weis is right. I work tact and I have noticed that over the years, the style of policing has become more confrontational, leading to a woeful lack of resources when it comes to developing sources in the community. We are such jerks to the general public that the old winos and car repair guys don't want to give up the info anymore. For those of us who like to do a little investigating once in a while, this is a major problem. I'm sure the 1st and 16th guys don't give a darn, but some of like to exercise our brains every so often and try to put the pieces together. Believe it or not, it makes for a shorter day.

2/14/2008 12:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Almost every post I read from pro-12hr coppers mentions their families. Why should your family (and the time you have to spend with them) affect me (a copper with no family)? I don't like the 6 on/2 off but I sure as hell don't want to work 12 hrs for three straight days. The news broadcast mentioned the same thing - "officers can spend more time with their families". Hey handle your own family business and keep me out of it. You knew before being hired that you'd be chasing Joe Ghetto for six days while your wife blows the mailman. And what about court (for those of you who actually get court dates)? And late arrests - you think I'm going to risk a late arrest after working 12 hours? The news also mentioned something about the 12 hour workday preventing after work drinking. WTF??? In addition to having no brats to come home to, I know how to handle my consumption after work. I'm sure a lot of PO's out there are in the same position as me. Forget the 12 hour workdays. Fuck the 6 on/2 off also.....6 on/3 off is best.

2/14/2008 12:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All you nitwits, look in your FOP book. The calendar is made up for the 10 hour day schedule already. Guess what we're going be working? No P-days or BFD's will be given up. All days will be converted to hours. If you want to use P-days or BFD's, you'll have to tag a couple hours of Comp. time on the end of each day used.

Vote NO, to 12 hr days. The suburbs that have the 12 hour days don't have the shit-hole neighborhoods we do. The suburban cops can take it easy in their backyards. (exception to rule: Suburbs that have the same genetic mutations we have. Good luck, Be safe)

2/14/2008 12:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Count me out! I aint working friggin' 12hrs. Here's a plan work 5 days off 2 days. What am I a taxi driver trying to pay my gas and lease fee. Tell those bosses to work 12hrs and get back to me.

2/14/2008 12:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how in the hell am i going to get a babysitter to cover my 12 hour shift not to mention the time it takes me to get to work and back. add 1-1/2 hours to that and now youre talking about 13-1/2 for a baby sitter. then times that by 3 straight days for that babysitter. what if i have court on top of that. i say no to the 12 hour shift.

2/14/2008 01:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know that some young police oficer who arrived on the job 4 years ago just in time to save the entire dept from drowning will call me an old man and tell me to go back to sleep

And Im no fan of the current administration at FOP

BUT I will tell you that if you can get 6 on and 3 off you will be doing yourselves a favor

Hell, I may come out of retirement

**********************************

I completley agree... 6on three off. very good schedule

2/14/2008 01:19:00 PM  
Anonymous 29 and a day said...

Anonymous said...
First thing I’ll do if we change over to 10 or 12 hour days:
1) sell my house and by a 3 flat in the ghetto so I can say I live there, while first and second floor section 8 tenants pays my mortgage.
2) buy a nice big house in the suburbs on a nice piece of land.
3) save thousands on vehicle & house insurance not to mention City stickers, cook county taxes etc etc etc
This is going to be great!!!

2/14/2008 12:05:00 AM


Yes and you'll be off 7 days a week when they fire you Einstein

2/14/2008 01:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow good for you, you got a gun pinch. you just saved the life of some mutt gang banger he was otw to shoot! enjoy...dont forget to do your cage report! take it deep and god bless all

Hey dickhead, that gun they get might save a fellow officer's life!

You are right, you are a dog.

2/14/2008 02:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 hr days might work in the burbs but not in any big city, you really want to be in squad car for 12 hours in a busy district handling that many more domestics etc?

6 onn 3 off would be great.

2/14/2008 02:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why doesn't someone ask somebody that works the schedule before crapping all over it. Keep this schedule and when you retire collect your couple checks and die. We have the worst schedule for a police department just check with the sheriffs, state etc, not to mention the time needed to retire with the max.

It wouldn't compare at all, the burbs in entirely different from the city.

2/14/2008 02:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the Residency Morons:

Who is buying your $350,000 split level or raised ranch if the city lifts residency?

That new Boeing executive that can't get enough of the quaint city life.

The downtown lawyer who doesn't mind spending 2-3 hours on I-94.

Maybe its the cashier at Starbucks who managed to save $3K over the past 11 months, but his FHA approved loan only goes up to $125,000, and that's the best offer you've had since your house went on the block 37 months ago.

The people on this job are dumber than rocks.

2/14/2008 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

d-o-g 9 you have a psychological problem, take a good shit and it will solve your problem

2/14/2008 02:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MY PLAN:

The police department is open on weekdays from 9AM to 5PM. At 5PM all police buildings are closed until police service resumes at 9AM. Obviously, the department is closed on weekends and holidays.

Any requests for service during times when the police department is closed will be duly recorded on voice-mail and promtly handled when the department re-opens.

2/14/2008 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"First thing I’ll do if we change over to 10 or 12 hour days:
1) sell my house and by a 3 flat in the ghetto so I can say I live there, while first and second floor section 8 tenants pays my mortgage.
2) buy a nice big house in the suburbs on a nice piece of land.
3) save thousands on vehicle & house insurance not to mention City stickers, cook county taxes etc etc etc
This is going to be great!!!

2/14/2008 12:05:00 AM"


You sound like you're ready to step up into the world of politics.

We citizens could use a fresh set of faces in the city council.

Get on the ballot and see what happens.

2/14/2008 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the ASSHOLE in D.O.G. 9

Go fuck yourself you piece of shit. Who the hell are you to judge anyone who decides to work or not work. Do us all a favor and eat your gun. Take off your diaper little girl!!!

Jesus

2/14/2008 03:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The old Cook County 4 on 2 off was the best ever. You still rotate, still 3 watches, still 8 hours, never burn out.

2/14/2008 03:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry to be negative:
anybody who works shifts gets the shaft. Been there; done that.

2/14/2008 03:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Asked everyone I could about the 12 hour days and 90% of people were for it (the only ones against were 20+ year guys)
PO with 8 years from 014

2/14/2008 04:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fop already allows the crime lab and recurit procesing to work 10 hr days how did that happen i thought all for one for all isn't that what markie told the tru unit when maurer was blamed for telling tru that it was doanhue who stopped the 10 day everyone in tru wanted

2/14/2008 04:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FOP get your head on straight....WE WANT 10 OR 12 HOUR DAYS! The people have spoken on this issue.

2/14/2008 04:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I might have a 5 o'clock shadow by the time the tour is up!

**And then get written up by Inspector McMahon for not shaving Ha Ha!

2/14/2008 05:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why doesn't someone ask somebody that works the schedule before crapping all over it.

**In a big city, I'm sure you will have those for and against it. I say they pilot it here and see how it goes.
I'm sure 12 hours in the 16th district & 12 hours in the 7th district would be a big difference in how it affects the worker.

2/14/2008 05:02:00 PM  
Blogger SCC said...

Who proposed the 12 hr. day?? JFED (The City). I say what will they give us to accept their proposal.

Who approves the contract that would cover the 12 hour day? The City Council, 26 members of which owe their spots to the mayor.

J-Fed isn't negotiating, Daley's lawyers are.

The City isn't going to "give" us anything. They are going to ask for concessions for us to get what we'd like to have.

2/14/2008 05:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LAPD's been doing it since2001. Coppers love it! Here's how they do it. Generally patrol works 3/12s with 4 days off each week. Detectives work 4/10s and administrative (housecats) people work 5/8 hour days mon-fri and the next week 4/8 hour days tue-fri. Court OT has gone up 14 percent but ext of tour OT has dropped by 12 percent. I repeat THEY LOVE IT. Let's keep Jody's feet to the fire on this one.

Actually, I think Jody, after being given complete autonomy by Richie, to run the department as he sees fit, threw this out for discussion. However, when Richie read about it in the paper he had a shit fit and got Jody on the phone right away. Jody's first dressing down by King Richie. Don't let it happen again Jody.

2/14/2008 05:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can't get po's to work 8..What makes you think they will work 12hrs...THEY SGT CAN I HAVE 4 ON ZTHE END?????

2/14/2008 05:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The police department is open on weekdays from 9AM to 5PM. At 5PM all police buildings are closed until police service resumes at 9AM. Obviously, the department is closed on weekends and holidays."

That's already in place w/that Joke Helicopter Unit.
No Choppers available on Sun& Mon, WTF??

2/14/2008 05:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Screw the 10 and 12 hour days. 4 on 2 off. I hate the city and the mayor even more.

2/14/2008 06:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We already do not have the cars or pdts for a full shift. How are we going to supply that many P/O's per shift with extra cars??

2/14/2008 07:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 12 hours isn't a two shift plan, in actuality it is four. In simplest permutation there are two day off groups. One group works day off group one on days, one on nights. One group works day off group B on days and one on nights. The teams obviously, rotate schedules opposite one another. Each team needs bosses. So, for a two police family like mine, even without seniority you work opposite groups and you don't need any 12 hour child care.

Tens are more expensive and equipment intensive because two shifts of ten hours are only 20 hours, but 3 leaves a 6 hour overlap in a 24 hour day. That makes them untenable for smaller agencies, but with a huge agency like CPD it should be much easier to utilize the overlap to staff some sort of power tour to cover busier hours. Six and three (or four and two)and 5/2 5/3 are all only a 1946 hour year, so expect to see some payback to the city, they are not going to just give away 134 hours a year. The bottom line is you are not going to get a shorter workweek or more days off working an eight hour day, unless you go to a standard 5/2 fixed days off plan. One needs to extend the workday to obtain more days off. The whole concept is that a day completely off is more valuable than some extra hours off on a day you work. Our agency had people vehemently against the change, after a year there would have been a revolt if the department tried to take it away.

2/14/2008 07:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since absolutely no one likes the 6 day work week I propose this schedule:

Beat Cars will work 12 hour days making two shifts. Proposed start time 5am to 5pm, 5pm to 5am late cars start at 6.

All rapids will be 10 hour shifts there will only be two shifts 8am to 6pm and 4pm to 2am.

Just throwing this out there since FOP isn't putting any possibilities except the 6 and 3.

Let me know what you guys think.

2/14/2008 08:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LAPD's been doing it since2001. Coppers love it! Here's how they do it. Generally patrol works 3/12s with 4 days off each week

THAT MEANS FIXED DAYS OFF...NO THANKS!

2/14/2008 08:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't imagine dealing with these white shirts for 12 hours a day.


And us white shirts can't imagine dealing with you crying, whining blue shirts for 12 hours either.

2/14/2008 08:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Studies have already been done regarding this schedule as it has been implemented by the LAPD. Some of there findings were; an increase in oT because of the days off, an increase in response time for jobs and a decrease in arrests. Do you need anymore reasons why the City will never go for this idea?

2/14/2008 10:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we go to 12-hour work days, we obviously lose a watch. As a result, how much manpower would not be needed in a district with 270 PO's? 20? 50? In light of the on-going economic meltdown, the city no doubt would push for layoffs as a "cost containment" measure...

2/14/2008 10:25:00 AM

Not to worry. Per the contract, if there are to be layoffs, the city MUST begin with the civilians. EVERY civilian MUST be laid off before they can touch a single police officer. We're safe!
BE SAFE!

2/14/2008 10:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 1/2 hour days will be a BITCH when you have to SWIPE in and out!

2/14/2008 03:38:00 AM....................Don't forget travel time,to and from work(for me another hour+),shit,shower shave???getting dressed??I'll be spending an easy 15 hours a day getting ready for work.working and the finally coming home?And some of you dolts think this is a good schedule?

2/14/2008 10:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

let's vote for the 10 hour day
work 4 off 3 we will pick our days off by seniority
that would be the onlyfair way

2/14/2008 10:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having worked at a dept that used 12s,i can say it sucked donkey dick.10s is where its at.

2/14/2008 11:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12 hours days means two watches right? So what happens to the leftover 25 Captains that don't have a Watch to Command??

It may even increase the amount of Captains, Lts, Sgts, etc.

You would actually need 4 shifts.

Think about it. If you work 12 hour shifts, you'd end up working 7out of 14 days.

Who would work the other days? Another set of Watch Commanders. There could be 2 Captains for each shift ex: 0500-1700 and another 2 for the 1700-0500. They would never see each other as they work on each others day off.

2/15/2008 02:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the ASSHOLE in D.O.G. 9

SUN / MON IS ACTUALLY D.O.G. 10!!

2/15/2008 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

talk to any coppers that work 12 hours in any high volume suburbs and they will tell you it is the best gig ever.

don't hate on what you don't know.

12 hrs work. give them a chance.

2/15/2008 11:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've read almost all of these posts and I can't believe no one has mentioned the most obvious problem, at least to me. This plan helps the city the most by eliminating overtime. How many of you are going to be willing to stay late on an arrest after working 12 hours? How are you going to court after working 1900 to 0700 to get some overtime?

You may respond by saying you will make it up on the off days, but reality dictates that after working 36 out of 72 consecutive hours the last thing you will want to do is go to court or think about this job in any way shape or form. If you respond by saying that you will make it up at a sidejob, you will have to show me the one that pays $55/hr (time and 1/2). Consider how many hours you will you have to work to make up for the loss of your overtime?

How would this impact your home life? No more taking the kids to school/picking them up. Let alone the grind of wake up go to work, come home go to bed, wake up couple of hours to do bullcrap, go to work. Makes me want to go out and get a drink just thinking about it.

Don't get me wrong the days off are great, but they will go by fast, as usual. Then it's work the next 36 out of 72 except for the week that you have to make up the 4 hours this plan leaves short of the required 40/week. That week would be 48 out of the next 96. I calculate that would be 1 out of every four weeks.

Just food for thought.

2/15/2008 12:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I say make smoking crack legal for all sworn officers and implement a straight 48 hour shift with six rdo's to follow. Crack cocaine to be supplied by the City, of course.

2/16/2008 12:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you gotta be high if you think three tweleves is good...count me out too..all you young go getters with no kids are for it Im sure..no one with less then ten years should be able to vote on it.. 12 hour days blow...i did them. who is going to pick my kid up from school?? because we cant get our kids in the publc schools we want she goes to private school...no busses for her!!! but we have to live in this shit hole daley town....Im a single father with custody who is gonna watch my kid the three days im gone for 15 hrs. or so because 12 is not the real time you will be gone...wake a up idiots.......6 on three off every week is the way to go....

2/21/2008 01:12:00 PM  

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