Northern Illinois Shooting
- A former student dressed in black walked onto the stage of a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University and opened fire on a packed science class Thursday, killing five students, wounding 16 and setting off a panicked stampede before committing suicide.
Police say they have no motive for the rapid-fire assault, carried out by the gunman who fired indiscriminately into the crowd with a shotgun and two handguns as students dove to the floor and ran toward the exit. At least two of the wounded were hospitalized in critical condition.
All the local links have stories up.
Labels: crime
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
81 Comments:
God bless all Huskies!
Nothing was going to stop that asshole from walking into that area
and getting some rounds off. The real tragedy is once it started, that nobody could pull a gun to stop him.
Is it actually safer to deploy to a combat zone than to go to college in this state/Country?
At least our GIs are armed.....
Thank God no law-abiding citizen had a non-existant conceal and carry permit...
I would hate to think a responsible gun owner would have been able to save lives.
Get your heads out of your asses, you douchebag politicians!
My prayers to the family members of all the victims. I'm currently attending a local university, taking advantage of the tuition reimbursement. You better believe i carry my weapon all the time, always! This incident would have had a different outcome if one of those students/victims was carrying a weapon.
What can we predict the ratio will be, between the 'oh my God, this would never have happened if nobody was allowed to have guns!!!' and the 'If only someone had had a gun and knew how to use it, these shootings might have been prevented!'?
According to an incredibly honest and frank officer at the press conference, (when asked the usual stupid questions by the typically stupid media whores), the police response was under 2 minutes and the entire event, from first shot fired to last shot fired, lasted a matter of seconds, less than a full minute at most.
God bless the fallen and their families. May the victims soar with angels and watch their families from high ground.
Prepare your children for anything people.
All five kids would be alive if Illinois had a conceal/carry law.
If I was one of these kids parents, I would sue Governor Roddo and his gun-grabbing boy Daley.
You had better believe I am making my kids pack a pistol everywhere they go. If they get charged, so be it. I'll get a great lawyer. At least they'll be ALIVE!!
Does anyone notice how these things do not happen in states with conceal carry?
Lambs to the slaughter.
More blood on the hands of the anti-2nd Amendment crowd.
The founding fathers knew that all citizens should have the right to defend themselves, including college students.
Liberal school administrations have made students sitting ducks by violating their constitutional right to bear arms. Not that it would have mattered much in this case, seeing as how Illinois is one of only 2 states to not have a concealed carry statute on the books.
It goes without saying that Illinois should pass concealed carry immediately. And we can show innovation by having Illinois Right-to-Carry preempt not only local ordinances, but also public university policies.
This is the best way to honor the victims and their families.
If only jessie jackass and make believe reverend pfleger could have been the only 2 targets.
I live ten minutes from NIU and this small community is heartbroken. I was at the store when everyone began hugging each other when we heard the news. SO SAD!!! My thoughts and prayers go to the families who lost their children. Please remember them in your thoughts today.
carrying or not carrying. no one would have stopped this. the second amendment wouldnt have done anything in this situation. the only thing that would have stopped this if guns never existed in the first place. call me a liberal piece of shit. i dont care. enough is enough with guns.
Hey SCC,
It's probably all those anti-gun liberal pinkos that are to blame. After all, if everyone could conceal/ carry, a whole bunch of those college kids would have been ready to take the bad guy out. We gotta find a way to let them conceal/carry and take their guns to class. Yeah, that's the ticket.
In reality, most civilized western European nations are extremely anti-gun. For a reason. Guns are inherently bad devices. Good luck crafting your argument, SCC.
you really think this has to do with gun control?
people are losing it. we need to restructure our value and social systems
God Bless them and their families. In case we havent looked around lately this country is out of control and the violence is sickening and extremely shocking to people who live in other parts of the world.
SCC,
You should put up the links to the More Rules = More Failure discussions.
It's a shame this happened, and I'm not going to use this tragedy as a center piece for my support of the 2nd amendment (although the socialists will). But I will say this:
If I or my children were ever in this situation, I would rather have myself or them die having the ability to defend ourselves, and die trying to defend ourselves, rather than curling up on the floor waiting for either the shooter to stop shooting, or the police to arrive and more likely than not, do nothing because they do not know what is going on inside the building.
I am just as tired as the next guy about these shootings, tired of the loss, and tired of the senseless murders. There is obviously something wrong in society that drives these kids to do this, but until these problems are solved, why take away the means to protect ourselves?
Lisa Madigan now has an excuse for an Assault weapons ban in Illinois.
Police respond at 1502...sweep the building at 1600...closest police car was 50 yards from the building...noone sees a problem with that!
Also, since there are laws inhibiting law abiding citizens from carrying...could we at least make it so psychologists aren't writing the "how to" pamphlets for security.
"Don't get within arms length"?
"Don't look them in the eye"?
How about this instead...
"Everyone carry a baseball to class...throw it at the mf'er ...then storm him." Buffalo Bill would have stopped hunting real quick if the first time he fired...all the buffalo stormed him.
Lets place the blame where it belongs. Blago/daley/Stroger. If we had a concealed Carry law on the books, just maybe this could have been halted. I don't know what idiots voted for you 3 morons but, it sure wasn't me. Why not pass some more anti gun laws which don't do a damn thing to the criminals. What we need is a concealed carry law. Glad I can carry my glock 45 with me.
Let not forget the student at IIT downtown who was killed recently. These schools must change with the times. Until Harvard or Yale get hit, or maybe a senators kid; there will be no political action or practical action taken to prevent this. I did go to college and am now CPD, most schools are filled with dreamers and anti-white activist with liberal teachers. Many of these kids piss on military folks and hate any authority and think its cool to date gangbangers. Thats the climate they live in, you think they want to see some bad ass M15 carrying security guy who is ready to stop any threats and put his life on the line for there idiots? Hell no, they are not ready so the killings will continue.
Yeah Great Idea, give college students guns. What the hell is wrong with you guys? This shooter had a FOID card, had legitimate registered weapons and decided to go shooting innocent people. How many more people in this country would do the same things if they had easy access to such weapons. Why should a 18yr old college student have a weapon? WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Direct from the press conference...
He had a FOID card and purchased the weapons on 9 Feb in Champaign Urbana.
At least 2 of his weapons were purchased/owned legally. I am for citizens right to bear arms, however; I'm stumped as to how this series of events could have been prevented. Any thoughts???
God bless the victims!
Let the "this never would have happened if Illinois had a concealed carry law" bullshit commentary begin!
Nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium. Many innocents still would have died, as this tragedy was over with in seconds. This is a horrific example of why MORE restrictive gun laws are needed nationwide.
We need a concealed carry law here in Illinois, but it wouldn't have prevented this piece of shit from getting his hands on all those second amendment weapons and doing what he did. Anyone who thinks it would have is an idiot.
God bless the NIU family.
You people are idiots if you thinking letting all students carry guns while going to class is the answer. For every law abiding kid, there is some idiot who given half the chance would pop someone for dissing them in front of their girlfriend. Since the dawn of time crazy fools have been bent on hurting people. No way around it. I believe in the rights granted by the 2nd amendment, but turning Cole Hall into Falluja isn't the answer.
The answer to gun violence, arm more people. Some how that just don't sound right. I can't with any imagination understand what the founding fathers would have to do with these type of crazy, unlawful actions. I can only imagine, if you had armed citizens there and they open up at that location and just one of the nearly 20 victims were struck by a projectile by one of these legalized gun toting citizens...the lawyers and the media would have a field day
Let's not forget that the NIU shooter was a law-abiding citizen. Who purchased the guns legally. He was off his meds for a couple of weeks and began acting erratic. He was able to get guns in a matter of days. Now imagine what might have happened if there was a longer background check or some sort of delay of even a couple weeks for the guns. Maybe a friend notices his behavior, maybe someone takes him to a doctor, maybe 5 students are still alive.
That gun control really saves lives!!
http://www.carryconcealed.net/
http://icarry.org/
Get you fanny packs!!!Unload gun and have ammo in seperate pouch.Its not the best option buts its "legal"under our draconian laws.
http://www.concealcarry.org/trib28nov2000.htm
All five kids would be alive if Illinois had a conceal/carry law.
If I was one of these kids parents, I would sue Governor Roddo and his gun-grabbing boy Daley.
You had better believe I am making my kids pack a pistol everywhere they go. If they get charged, so be it. I'll get a great lawyer. At least they'll be ALIVE!!
You and nobody else can guarantee that....I really hate people who take tragic events like this to forward their political, social agendas. I hope i'm still around to arrest your gun toting kids for UUW
Why doesn't anybody question what the ATF and the FBI are doing there? Big brother is involved in a local crime that should be handle locally and by the state police. Why the need for the Feds and what does it matter where the legal firearms came from? No machine guns or weapons that broke the Federal law so why the Feds????
Any word if the offender had any connections to the religion of peace?/s
It's sad no matter where you send your kids these thug animals will find them. Very sad day
Does anyone notice how these things do not happen in states with conceal carry?
----------------------
VA has a very strong CC law, and allows open carry, w/o any permit required at all. And there are few restricted areas, sadly VA Tech was one of them.
They have one of the strangest CC restrictions of any of the states though. You can't CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol, but you can open carry there.
I am amazed that this tragedy, is being used to forward a political agenda. How would a concealed carry law have made any diffrence. A mentally ill individual intent on mahem is virtually unstoppable, and the theory that some scared and freaked out student, is going to pull out his gun and and acurately shoot to stop that individual, in light of my 25 years of police experience, is ridiculous. I have nothing against citizens owning guns, but we need a different way to screen people who are buying guns. God bless and keep the families of the victims.
Just saw our mush head mayor on the news. He did what all what all left wing brain dead allholes do, he blamed everyone else except the shooter at NIU. I have a plea for he mayor and the other politicians who look to lay blame anywhere but where it belongs.
FUCK YOUR, FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU SOME MORE, YOU YELLOW-BELLIED COWARDLY FUCKING WHORES.
Thank You,
A former Democrat
This is for all you gun advocates...This lunatic got a hold of several guns legally! He had an F.o.i.d. card! Now what does that say about your argument?
RIP to all of the innocent students. I pray for their families and I pray for the injured and their families.
VA has a very strong CC law, and allows open carry, w/o any permit required at all. And there are few restricted areas, sadly VA Tech was one of them.
They have one of the strangest CC restrictions of any of the states though. You can't CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol, but you can open carry there.
They also have another strange restriction on CC. Namely that licensed CC holders weren't allowed to CC on campus. Do a little research and see who backed this insanity there and then take a look at Illinois.
Anonymous said...
This is for all you gun advocates...This lunatic got a hold of several guns legally! He had an F.o.i.d. card! Now what does that say about your argument?
2/15/2008 06:33:00 PM
A hell of a lot more than your post does about you, your education and your knowledge...F.o.i.d. card. If you happen to read this, FOID is the proper term lib.
"This is for all you gun advocates...This lunatic got a hold of several guns legally! He had an F.o.i.d. card! Now what does that say about your argument?
2/15/2008 06:33:00 PM"
Actually, what does it say about the 'arguments' of all the 'gun control' imbeciles?
Crawl back into your hole, rabbit.
"carrying or not carrying. no one would have stopped this. the second amendment wouldnt have done anything in this situation. the only thing that would have stopped this if guns never existed in the first place. call me a liberal piece of shit. i dont care. enough is enough with guns.
2/15/2008 08:29:00 AM"
Great.
Wave your magic wand and make all the guns go away.
Then all that'll be left are the cutting tools.
I'll bet that then you'll be pushing to outlaw steak knives, box cutters, and the always deadly, disposable razors.
While you're at it, let's get rid of motor vehicles, germs and viruses, man-made chemicals, objects harder than the mass between your ears, the weather, gravity, electricity, bodies of water deeper than the width of your head, and, while you're at it, idiots like you.
"Lisa Madigan now has an excuse for an Assault weapons ban in Illinois.
2/15/2008 09:29:00 AM"
Even though a) all weapons of any kind are 'assault weapons', when used to assault another living being and b) none of the firearms used in this event were 'assault weapons', as defined by the gun-grabbers.
Lisa Madigan as our State's Attorney General is an oxymoron.
"Why should a 18yr old college student have a weapon? WAKE UP PEOPLE!
2/15/2008 09:57:00 AM"
Maybe so he, or she, could have had the equal means to respond to the assault in an effective manner.
Or do you figure most people can outrun a bullet?
"Nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium. Many innocents still would have died, as this tragedy was over with in seconds. This is a horrific example of why MORE restrictive gun laws are needed nationwide."
Gee, it's nice to know that you're so omnipotent as to have such personal confidence in your opinion on what could not have happened.
Apparently, you've never experienced being 'under fire'.
It ain't what you imagine it to be.
So don't think you know.
You don't.
Rabbits never do.
"The answer to gun violence, arm more people. Some how that just don't sound right. I can't with any imagination understand what the founding fathers would have to do with these type of crazy, unlawful actions. I can only imagine, if you had armed citizens there and they open up at that location and just one of the nearly 20 victims were struck by a projectile by one of these legalized gun toting citizens...the lawyers and the media would have a field day
2/15/2008 10:55:00 AM"
Fuck the lawyers and the media.
And fuck your imagination.
Everyone has the God-given Right to protect their Life and Limb.
Period.
Use your imagination to picture what you would do, based on what you could do, were you to find yourself facing someone intent on harming you or others.
I'll bet at least a few of those present during this event wished they had had some means of defending their lives, other than having worn their running shoes that day.
You keep on telling yourself that the world you live in is populated by 'nice' people.
While the rational few of us face the realities of life for you.
"I am amazed that this tragedy, is being used to forward a political agenda. How would a concealed carry law have made any diffrence. A mentally ill individual intent on mahem is virtually unstoppable, and the theory that some scared and freaked out student, is going to pull out his gun and and acurately shoot to stop that individual, in light of my 25 years of police experience, is ridiculous. I have nothing against citizens owning guns, but we need a different way to screen people who are buying guns. God bless and keep the families of the victims.
2/15/2008 05:29:00 PM"
You presume that every 'student' would have been 'scared AND freaked out', and that no one would have been capable of responding to being shot at.
Tells us a lot about the kind of adults we are raising our children to be, doesn't it?
to 9:01am
Civilized Europe? Do u mean Eurabia?
Im sure France's strict gun laws prevented those muslim rioters from getting those shotguns that they used against the French Police
a few months back.And that was a step above the riot of 2 years ago
where they were only throwing rocks. Its already been predicted that in the next muslim uprising, they're going to use assault rifles & RPGs.
Go ahead and go for total gun ban here. The Mexican cartel is just waiting. They already have the network in place to import drugs; they're going to switch some of their resources to bring guns in for the connected. Guns are made cheaply in South America(Brazil,
Argentina).
I actually like some of our illegals here; at least they're not
blowing themselves to pieces at shopping malls. If europe is civilized; its because the US Military saved them from both Hitler & stalin;they're on their own w/the fanatics.......
5:29am, I actually agree w/most of what you said. The comments from the pro gun/pro carry/f##k the liberals crowd, is a knee-jerk reaction against the anti-gun crowd thats sure to try and put more useless laws on the books.
Even after Virginia's tragedy; they didnt try to restrict legal ownership.
But being the whores that they are, you have to watch madigan,blago,daley and all their parasites. I'll give up my guns when they give up their armed bodyguards.......
Anonymous said...
This is for all you gun advocates...This lunatic got a hold of several guns legally! He had an F.o.i.d. card! Now what does that say about your argument?
2/15/2008 06:33:00 PM
____________________
No matter what I say, I doubt you would listen, but the fact that he used guns is irrelevant to his rampage. Yes, he obtained guns legally, but do you really think gun laws would have stopped him? There are laws against murder and suicide and he committed both. Do you think laws stop anyone from doing anything? If gun laws stop criminals from getting guns, why do they have them and law abiding citizens don't?
He would of found another way to kill as many people as possible, and the only way to stop him was to kill him. No amount of debate, discussion, diplomacy and tree hugging would have stopped this kid... nothing except a strategically placed bullet. It's a callous thing to say, but it's the truth.
I'm not sure if you are aware of how the FOI application works, but the State Police do not come out to your house and verify the information; the news said he recently stopped taking his medication, which means he had a mental disorder, which means he lied on his application or refused to relinquish the card.
There was an obvious breakdown of the process and guns were allowed into the hands of someone who legally and morally should not have had them. Most gun supporters are like myself: we want regulation, we want gun laws enforced, and we certainly do not want criminals or the insane to get guns. Just because I support the 2nd Amendment does not mean I want everyone and anyone running around with guns unabated, which is a common misconception among the left. Ideally we should have concealed/carry permits that are only obtainable through a stringent application process, and a lengthily training and qualification course. Unfortunately we have a system that does not stop guns getting in the wrong hands. We need a better system, not a ban on guns.
Did you catch it...
"He was off his meds"!
They aren't saying what meds he was on but my guess is either anti-depressants or psychotropics.
Both are taken to combat a form of mental instability.
Had he answered his FOID app correctly regarding mental illness (note: now about mandatory check to see if applicant is taking prescribed drugs when applying for FOID?) he would have been disallowed from possessing a firearm.
I agree with the concealed carry.
Its time for lawmakers and gun grabbers to get their heads out of their collective asses and allow citizens to protect themselves.
Fear of people shooting it up cowboy style is irrational. Case in point is the county in Georgia that made it mandatory that all citizens carry sidearms. Crime reduced drastically overnight and no shoot-em-ups.
In the mean time, people will be slaughtered until the bad guns are removed from all law abiding citizens. It has been done before you know...private ownership of guns.
Both Joseph Stalin and Adolph Hitler banned citizens from owning guns and look at how safe their citizens were.
Be careful what you wish for...it may come true
I see a red door and I want to paint it black....
Anonymous said...
"Why should a 18yr old college student have a weapon? WAKE UP PEOPLE!
2/15/2008 09:57:00 AM"
My daughter does,I bought her a SIG P230 and she carries it.My dauhgter will live,yours will not.
2/15/2008 10:19:00 AM
Liberal fucktard.You make as much sense as a steaming pile of dog doo doo.
Condolences to the victims' families and a speedy recovery to the wouded. To the people who state,"he was off his meds." That's BS. Plenty of mentals in the 'hood off meds and no mass killings with plenty of guns around. He just wanted to kill.
Gun control kills.
A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.
Thomas Jefferson, Rights of British America, 1774
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
Dearest 2/15/2008 11:16:00 PM:
Golly gee.
It's comforting to know YOU alone have the necessary insight to determine what happened and how it could or could not have been prevented, oh wise experiencer of being 'under fire'.
I can't imagine what those students went through.
NONE OF US CAN UNLESS WE WERE THERE.
Perhaps you can take the time to explain your grand theories to the rest of us poor mortals.
What I read sounded like an opinion and you don't agree.
Swell.
Now
get
over
yourself.
Thank you for acknowledging your impotence, your honesty was refreshing.
Having been 'under fire', I can understand what those students experienced, albeit being armed, rather than being naked as the day I was born.
And I assure you, were you not impotent, by your own choice, you would have welcomed the presence of arms, welcomed the presence of those armed and thanked the God of your choice that someone, anyone, was armed, besides the assailant throwing lead in your direction.
"Perhaps you can take the time to explain your grand theories to the rest of us poor mortals."
Said theories being all that you've got to share.
I would invite you to walk the walk before you talk the talk, but, given your self imposed impotence, you wouldn't take but a few steps, before becoming the real victim you choose to potentially be.
In case your brain cells haven't entirely atrophied, here's a quote that always bears repeating:
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.'
Thomas Paine
2/16/2008 11:05:00 AM
Anonymous said...
"Nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium. Many innocents still would have died, as this tragedy was over with in seconds. This is a horrific example of why MORE restrictive gun laws are needed nationwide."
2/15/2008 11:16:00 PM
You anti gun folks never cease to amaze me.Ever wonder why cities with the most stingent gun control have been murder capitols at any given time,and continue to do so??
If you dont want to own a gun,let alone carry one,then dont!
If you want to be a victim then do so,the cops will gladly shovel your liberal carcass into a bag.
TOOL!!
Anonymous said...
carrying or not carrying. no one would have stopped this. the second amendment wouldnt have done anything in this situation. the only thing that would have stopped this if guns never existed in the first place. call me a liberal piece of shit. i dont care. enough is enough with guns.
2/15/2008 08:29:00 AM
I think if you lived in 007 you would chabge your mind.
P.S Your a liberal piece of shit.
Anonymous said...
This is for all you gun advocates...This lunatic got a hold of several guns legally! He had an F.o.i.d. card! Now what does that say about your argument?
2/15/2008 06:33:00 PM
That we are right and you are still wrong.Be a victim,I dont care.Darwin was correct!!
here's a question to the pro 'everybody in that class should have had a handgun, and nothing would have happened' crowd:
do you want a million dollars?
because i'd put a check in the mail right now if you can sit here and honestly say you'd want to be anywhere NEAR a classroom of college-aged students packing heat. 10 people, 20 people, 100 people, etc.
and better yet, pick two universities. one gives EVERY student who can carry legally a loaded gun to carry everywhere, the other gives nobody guns and makes it a felony to carry one...
where do you brain magicians think more shootings will take place?
2/16/2008 07:59:00 PM
lyle said:
"...do you want a million dollars?
because i'd put a check in the mail right now if you can sit here and honestly say you'd want to be anywhere NEAR a classroom of college-aged students packing heat. 10 people, 20 people, 100 people, etc."
IF you even had 1 dollar, I'd believe you had a million and you'd be writing that check right now.
As long as there's no requirement that I don't carry, that is.
"...and better yet, pick two universities. one gives EVERY student who can carry legally a loaded gun to carry everywhere, the other gives nobody guns and makes it a felony to carry one...
where do you brain magicians think more shootings will take place?"
That would depend upon which 'university' had the option to carry, whether each student had a choice whether to participate in your proposed 'experiment' or not, and the training provided to those who chose to be armed.
With the mental midgets passing themselves off as 'teachers' these days, as well as the feeble-minded parents of so many, there would have to be training involved, both practical gun handling & safety and the legal/moral standards relevant to the use of deadly force, since it's unlikely that most students entering college have had anything remotely resembling intelligent and rational instruction in the meaning and value inherent in our 2nd Amendment's guarantees, let alone the responsibilities of adulthood.
As for:
"here's a question to the pro 'everybody in that class should have had a handgun, and nothing would have happened' crowd:"
No one has said that 'nothing' would have happened.
The only way that 'nothing' would have happened would have been if no one had been there.
And, even though it's likely that you are brain-dead enough to need to have pointed out to you the obvious, as in, when the only person with a firearm is the one discharging it's projectiles in your direction, the options you have are limited to fleeing, freezing, cowering, screaming and wetting your pants, or panties, as the case may be, I won't bore you with information far above your capacity to comprehend.
Now, where did you say you keep that million?
If at least a few students were carrying a legally owned weapon, there would have at least been a chance they could have taken this guy out with out anyone getting hurt.
With the gun grabbers in control, there was absolutely no chance to stop him.
If you kid was a student there, which scenario would you rather have?
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
carrying or not carrying. no one would have stopped this. the second amendment wouldnt have done anything in this situation. the only thing that would have stopped this if guns never existed in the first place. call me a liberal piece of shit. i dont care. enough is enough with guns.
2/15/2008 08:29:00 AM
I would love to place folks like you in a life or death situation.I would then have a gun available,I wonder what your response would be???
"I would love to place folks like you in a life or death situation.I would then have a gun available,I wonder what your response would be???
2/17/2008 10:50:00 AM"
Their response would be to offer the gun to the assailant, as a 'peace' offering and as a bribe to buy their life with.
All the while begging and pleading for the not-so forthcoming 'humanity' of their soon-to-be executioner to blossom.
My dearest 2/16/2008 04:42:00 PM:
I would invite you to talk the talk now that you've walked the walk, but your responses continue to be woefully impotent, so my self-proclaimed rabbit-like impotence must be having an effect on your omnipotence.
I can't take these next few steps for you, I'm in the process of becoming the best real victim I can potentially choose to be.
I know, I didn't think that last sentence made too much sense either, but I'm on a roll here...
Dare I say you've been too busy contemplating the moon to figure out a different twist on your "everyone is a potential victim unless they have a gun" jive.
No assurance needed here, as I've been once again rendered impotent by the magic of your logic and reasoning.
Sort of like being 'saved' by Jesus.
The original point, in case you lost track since I have, was that nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium.
He walked on stage from a concealed entrance and started blasting with a shotgun for Jehovah's sake.
The wacko purchased all four weapons guns here in Illinois legally.
There's nothing outrageous about stricter gun laws, especially pertaining to those who are mentally ill or unstable, is there?
That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer.
Having twenty armed students sitting in that class who had thanked the God of their choice for being armed with weapons other than their arms and not being naked as the day they were born still would not have prevented the loss of an innocent life.
Surely, having been 'under fire', you can understand that.
Okay.
I recognize you exist.
I acknowledge the fact that you have a computer, access to the internet and have submitted a comment to this blog, said comment which met their high standards and was, thus, posted.
I further admit that my response to your observations may very well exceed the length limits the owners of this blog have set, so you may not ever have the opportunity to read my response.
I presume that, should this be so, it will, no doubt, be no great loss to you, as you are unlikely to either understand or agree with the contents of same.
That being said, we shall proceed to the business at hand.
"...so my self-proclaimed rabbit-like impotence must be having an effect on your omnipotence."
I'm not omnipotent, I just have common sense, as opposed to common nonsense.
"...'everyone is a potential victim unless they have a gun' jive."
Everyone is a potential victim, unless they have prepared themselves to not be vulnerable to being successfully victimized.
There are many methods and means to avoid being a victim, one being the option you've apparently chosen and one being the option of being armed with sufficient ability to defend one's self, if and when and where and by what
means one is attacked.
For brevity's sake, I'll leave it to you to ponder the what's and why's concerning the above methods and means.
"...nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium.
He walked on stage from a concealed entrance and started blasting with a shotgun..."
That appears to be what he did.
Your presumption, that no one there, armed, could have done anything to stop him from continuing to discharge his chosen weapons, is a huge presumption.
One based, no doubt, on your lack of experience.
One thing that we can know is that no one who was there was armed, other than the assailant.
"There's nothing outrageous about stricter gun laws, especially pertaining to those who are mentally ill or unstable, is there?"
Who defines 'mentally ill' and 'unstable'?
Who determines who is to be so defined?
You?
The professionals of psychiatry, who prescribed Zoloff to the assailant?
The police?
The politicians who make laws?
The politicians who sit as judges?
Who do we entrust with the authority to declare a person is 'mentally ill' or 'unstable'?
And who do we entrust to declare a given person 'sane' or 'stable'?
"Having twenty armed students sitting in that class who had thanked the God of their choice for being armed with weapons other than their arms and not being naked as the day they were born still would not have prevented the loss of an innocent life."
Perhaps not a life, but perhaps a few other lives, the ones that were ended or at risk of being ended, being that the assailant was free to continue to discharge his weapons, uninterrupted, because there was no one there with the ability to interrupt his actions.
"Surely, having been 'under fire', you can understand that.
2/18/2008 11:20:00 AM"
Yes, I can.
That's why I know you are mistaken in your perspectives.
Dear Brother in Christ 2/18/2008 08:11:00 PM:
As you may or may not be aware, there are many methods and means to have an open debate about a given topic, one being the mantra method you've chosen and another being the option of stating your case with clarity and succinctness, disavowing rabid speculation to defend one's opinions, if and when and where and by what means one's opinions are assailed.
If you take the time to review the original post (2/15/2008 10:19:00 AM), it clearly states support for conceal carry in Illinois AND raises concerns about the need for stronger gun laws nationwide. The use of the phrase "second-amendment weapons" must have set off a false gun control radiation alarm somewhere.
For insanity's sake, I'll leave it to you to decipher the absolute truth behind the means and ends of the alpha and omega.
"He walked on stage from a concealed entrance and started blasting with a shotgun..." You say that appears to be what he did? That is what he did in a matter of seconds.
An assumption that one or twenty armed students could/would (choose one) have stopped the wacko from unloading lead from his pump-action Remington shotgun into the crowd is then, by using your patented presumptive logic, grossly suspect.
Having a profession that trains and places oneself in the position of being armed and then possibly having to defend oneself and others from being fired upon by an unknown assailant is something I have to deal with each and every day. Those who feel the need to exclaim that they've been 'under fire' are making a point that doesn't need be made, you're not the only one.
Oh yeah: Who defines 'mentally ill' and 'unstable'? Who determines who is to be so defined? Me? No. The professionals of psychiatry, who prescribed Zoloff to the assailant? No. The police? No. The politicians who make laws? No. The politicians who sit as judges? No. Who do we entrust with the authority to declare a person is 'mentally ill' or 'unstable'? And who do we entrust to declare a given person 'sane' or 'stable'? Hmm...and the collective answer is...
We the people nominate you, 2/18/2008 08:11:00 PM.
Yes. I've found Jesus. Amen. Thanks for knowing me better than you know yourself. For brevity's sake, I'll join the rest and defer to your wise consul.
Praise the God of your choice. Amen.
Anonymous said...
That we are right and you are still wrong.Be a victim,I dont care.Darwin was correct!!
2/16/2008 07:44:00 PM
So in other words, those students deserved what they got? Nice. Survival of the fittest, no worse than the barbarians in the middle east...f*ckwad...
"Praise the God of your choice. Amen.
2/19/2008 11:12:00 AM"
Your original post:
"repeal 2nd amendment said...
Let the 'this never would have happened if Illinois had a concealed carry law' bullshit commentary begin!
Nothing done by a score of concealed carry students sitting in that class would have stopped this wacko from strolling in and shooting up the auditorium. Many innocents still would have died, as this tragedy was over with in seconds. This is a horrific example of why MORE restrictive gun laws are needed nationwide.
We need a concealed carry law here in Illinois, but it wouldn't have prevented this piece of shit from getting his hands on all those second amendment weapons and doing what he did. Anyone who thinks it would have is an idiot.
God bless the NIU family.
2/15/2008 10:19:00 AM"
You begin by labeling your comment as an appeal to repeal the 2nd Amendment, than claim you support the citizens' right to keep and bear arms and the passing of CC laws.
You further claim that I, and perhaps others, have claimed that an armed individual, present at the time and place of this tragic event, who was not the assailant, would have, with certainty, been able to prevent or reduce the loss of life and/or injury to many.
No one has claimed this.
Everyone, who has posted a comment that supports the rights of citizens to arm themselves, should they choose to, has said that the opportunity to defend themselves, having been denied to those present at this event, eliminated the possibility of anyone present from having the means to try to interfere with the assailant's actions.
Your subsequent comments have been the ones that have asserted that no one could have done anything to alter the outcome of this event.
With or without the sarcasms.
You are privileged to keep and bear arms, however much of a burden this privilege seems to be for you.
It can be a burden, this responsibility of having the means to end another's life with the motion of one finger, of having to be the person who may very well have to make a decision on whether or not to make that decision.
No one, I hope, is saying that it's easy or that it is a decision to be made lightly, without thought or weight to it.
But reality occasionally rears it's sometimes ugly head.
Why would you object to citizens seeking to avail themselves of the means to defend themselves, beyond the dialing of 911?
And what ways would you propose to strengthen the laws you appear to feel need strengthening?
Have you considered posting a comment explaining your specifics on this subject?
Instead of posting an original comment that contains apparent contradictions of your intentions, and subsequent comments continuing to avoid specificity on your perspectives on this subject?
2/21/2008 05:25:00 AM:
Huh?
2/21/2008 05:25:00 AM:
What was your question again?
"2/21/2008 05:25:00 AM:
Huh?
2/22/2008 09:59:00 AM"
and
"2/21/2008 05:25:00 AM:
What was your question again?
2/22/2008 10:06:00 AM"
Reset your breakers, they've tripped.
Period.
2/15/2008 11:24:00 PM
Tells us a lot about the kind of adults we are raising our children to be, doesn't it?
2/15/2008 11:29:00 PM
It ain't what you imagine it to be.
2/15/2008 11:16:00 PM
All the while begging and pleading for the not-so forthcoming 'humanity' of their soon-to-be executioner to blossom.
2/17/2008 06:37:00 PM
Lambs to the slaughter.
2/15/2008 02:52:00 AM
Then all that'll be left are the cutting tools.
2/15/2008 11:03:00 PM
Now, where did you say you keep that million?
2/16/2008 09:05:00 PM
But reality occasionally rears it's sometimes ugly head.
2/21/2008 05:25:00 AM
Reset your breakers, they've tripped.
2/23/2008 01:20:00 AM
Hello, are you still there, grandma?
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