The Determined Offender
In most of our recently cited examples of rifles being used against the police, officers have survived by the mere fact that the shooter wasn't adept with the weapon or pure luck. Luck runs in streaks - ask any gambler. So what if you remove the other factor - the untrained shooter? Then you get something like this video (the first two minutes are the meat, but the whole six minutes are educational):
The video is around two-years old and it ought to give everyone pause. The offender placed a fake call to lure police into a one-man-ambush and his tactics when confronted are deadly, wounding one of the first two officers within seconds, killing a responding sergeant immediately thereafter and when cornered, advancing aggressively before being "knocked down" by police gunfire.
We've been to a lot of training in various roles and we don't recall anything like this ever being mentioned but once and that was an informal bullshit session of "What if...". We don't even know if anything like this has been offered to anyone except SWAT.
If confronted by such an offender, a rifle might be a handy thing to have around. A shotgun would be a nice thing to have around, too. But maybe Lady Luck will carry the day.
The video is around two-years old and it ought to give everyone pause. The offender placed a fake call to lure police into a one-man-ambush and his tactics when confronted are deadly, wounding one of the first two officers within seconds, killing a responding sergeant immediately thereafter and when cornered, advancing aggressively before being "knocked down" by police gunfire.
We've been to a lot of training in various roles and we don't recall anything like this ever being mentioned but once and that was an informal bullshit session of "What if...". We don't even know if anything like this has been offered to anyone except SWAT.
If confronted by such an offender, a rifle might be a handy thing to have around. A shotgun would be a nice thing to have around, too. But maybe Lady Luck will carry the day.
Labels: department issues, safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
49 Comments:
I REALLY HOPE EVERYONE DOESNT THINK THE CITY IS GOING TO PAY FOR YOU TO PROTECT UR OWN ASS.
IT KINDA FALL ALONG THE LINE OF DO U EX CERISE ON UR OWN.
IT HELPS
DO YOU GO TO THE RANGE ON UR OWN...
U COULD BUY BULLETS WITH THAT NICE UNIFORM ALLOWANCE...
NOW THE BIG ONE THAT FEW OF US DO. DO U TRAIN FOR COMBAT...
I SEE ALL TYPES OF FUTURE VICTIM ON THE JOB. MOMS THAT DONT WANT TO CARRY THEIR WEAPON OFF DUTY.
FAT BOYS WHO TALK LOUD BUT CANT TOUCH THEIR TOES,
SHORTIES WHO THINK THEY R INDESTRUCTIBLE,
OLD TIMERS WHO KNOW THEY SHOULD BE RETIRED CMON 60 YEAR OLD IN THE STREETS!?!
WE CAN WORRY ABOUT THIS BUT ADD IT TO THE LIST RAMBO IS OUT THEIR BUT SO ARE THE MENTAL HOMELESS LADIES WITH NO TRAINING.
ASK 4 BACK UP.
That report was from L.A. Fox station's Chris Blatchford. Blachford went to school and was pals with the late, Chicago cop turned Cook County ASA Tony Corsentino.
Blatchfor did a fine report here that will help a lot of cops. Blatchford is one of those reporters who understands the cop's side of the story.
More copper's are going to have to get killed before CPD Patrol Officers ever get M-4s.
I can't believe my eyes. As the leader of a major west side congregation of 25 I find this video totally unacceptable. How can they blame the poor young Marine who obviously was not given the oppurtunity to obtain the American dream. How this society manages to leave these potential brain surgeons behind is beyond the pale. All I ask is the Hispanic community begin a foundation to provide educational oppurtunities to these poor lost souls. Perhaps a UNCF type organization would work. I suggest leaders in the Hispanic community contact Commander Stanley of the CPD and find out how to sell muffins, popcorn and salad to fund this cause. Remember "a mind is a terrible waste." I think that how the slogan goes. Got to go now and prepare my sermon for next Sunday's service. I'm very confident I'll have an overflow crowd of 30 for the service.
Have a nice day. Time to get my Escalade hand washed - those spinners are hard to keep clean. Tax exempt status - standing behind the Mayor and Superintendent Weis at press conferences - being quoted in the media all the time - just like the commerical says "PRECIOUS."
More of these shitheads are joining the military. The military will now accept someone with a felony conviction in thier background.
Understand that the threat is there in our line of work. You can choose to train and stay in shape to meet the threat, or carry on as usual and take your chances.
I remember going to the NCO club about 18 years ago. I swear it was ganbangers ball. All the flashing of gang symbols.
Ok, so I've gone through the carbine training and passd successfully. I've got my own AR-15 and it's equipped as per the order. It's registered and everything about it is legit. When are the cars supposed to get the locking harness in the trunk? Has anyone seen them installed yet?
They show this video in the academy and told us if this ever happens to us we're fucked!
That's the training we currently get to handle this situation.
Multiple tours in a counterinsurgency environment will do that to ya. Makes ya just wanna killa mufucka.
Thanks for that training and experience Uncle Sam...
Ummmmmmmm...and why don't we have rifles? This video alone should be enough to sway any opinions against having them.Although this is the third incident where I saw police being lured to a crazy man with automatic weapon. In the previous ones, both were marines that apparently just.....snapped. Both were VERY proficient in using there weapon. Pieing and all.
Here goes an example here......
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7504249/marine_gone_mad/
Remington 870 shotguns- with: 14 inch barrels, ghost ring front sights, folding stocks, we have the long clumsy ones now, just convert some of them.
All of this WILL eventually come down to- Us vs. Them; thanks to Liberal Politicians using our tax dollars to buy votes for themselves and their liberal politician cohorts, and rewarding the deadbeats of our Society.
TO Hater:
Hey, I'm a Fat Guy, about 50 lbs. overweight, but I'm a Tuffy-Two Shoes though, cause, although I could only fight for about 15 seconds without collapsing, I could sit on you and eat a Fudgesicle at the same time. So, don't mess with me, I'm Fat, and I'm tough ! And if you don't believe it, I'll see you at the Buffet Line and we'll settle this once and for all!!!
This video is part of the Carbine Program, and others like it.
I see a pattern and its a dark one.
They show this video in the academy during building entry.
The US Military is training the low income gangbanger and they are bringing that training home to the streets. Wonderful. How many CPD officers ever received that training? Even if you were in the military chances are it was many years and pounds ago.
And if Jody thinks this 59 year old cop in his one man car and pistol is going to do anything other than drive around the block he is nuts.
I can't even get an M4 to protect myself, much less the citizens, without jumping through his fitness hoop. I was #1 in my academy class in firearms and have consistently kept myself proficient in the use of my weapon, at my own expense and on my own time but I won't be getting an M4 unless I run, do sit-ups etc. What bullshit.
And it really doesn't matter since we all know that Chicago Police Training is good for shit. Forget about recurrent training. We're damn lucky to get even 30 rounds a year to be shot at paper for christ sake!
In the beginning I wondered why the old timers took their time in responding to certain jobs. I wonder no more. I am just coasting now, in neutral, heading downhill. My only goal is to go home each day safely.
Stay safe out there.
Not in this city, with the great Mayor Daley, Jody Weis and all the fine CPD leadership the citizens "feel" safe. The gangs are not a problem here because they said so they wouldn't lie to us. After all Obama comes from this great city and he is the messiah.
My sons, both Marines, said that, indeed there are gangs in the Corp and the Corp is now letting people with a felony join their ranks. A said state of affairs.
I have gone shooting with my boys and they have taught this old timer a few things that I never saw before.
Be safe out there, shoot straight.
Closest thing available to CPD is the Ballistic SHield Training- Great Group of Guys at the Near North High School Facility-, but that is regretably available to only few and far in between...Our safety and our training is up to us and our budgets.....Tired of paying money out of pocket for basic and refresher training...
There were a series of articles a few years back on gangs sending their members to join the US military to get some training and maybe acquire some ordinance, as well as tap into a market for their drugs, etc.
A few of these gang-soldiers have now returned to the 'hood to train and indoctrinate the "indigenous forces". Make no mistake, a lot of the gangs now have guerilla warfare knowledge, if not expertise.
We live in exciting times.
Very informative! An eye opener at the least.........
Being a Northsider I 've stumbled into Nortenos from the Round Lake Beach frequenting 017. The 13's of different sects I met in 017 and 025 at various locations.
These gang bangers ALSO play that video game on the computer in these coomputer cafes they have (the one where numerous people can play the war game simultaneously) I don't know the name of it but it is like an urban warfare thing and set in a IRAQ type setting.
Locked up a guy for murder in 021 and he had killed two people with an SKS nasty crime scene considering the damage the weapon did to the person and the property.
Our weapons are necessary but behind the times..........
We need more as did the Sgt and responding officers in this video!
This can happen anywhere and may happen soon if there are riots with this election or any other type of fallout from the elections!
SWAT is great but sometimes response time is essential and location is everything.
Hell even a couple SHOTGUNS in some of the supervisors cars would help at times if needed!
We are at the crossroads here with this job for BIG DECISION making! It just seems to be the old issue by the POWERS THAT BE OF:
CAN THEY BE TRUSTED!
Regarding this issue...
The majority of us can be! Like any society, and us being one, there is a small percentage of problems but there is a high percentage of NEED to address real world problems RIGHT NOW!
Figure it out soon before another NATIONAL NEWS STORY hits from Chicago!
Quit worrying about the corruption stories and worry about the loss of life probabilities here!
What about the gang members on our Dept. and officers who associate with them off duty. Watch yourselfs you may not really know who your partner behind the scenes.
HATER said...
I REALLY HOPE EVERYONE DOESNT THINK THE CITY IS GOING TO PAY FOR YOU TO PROTECT UR OWN ASS.
9/17/2008 12:28:00 AM
The hell with the city paying. If they let me, I'll buy my own damn shotgun. Sure M4's are nice but there is nothing more intimidating than the sound of racking a 12ga. First round 00 second round slug.
The Determined Officer. Don't forget there are many officers serving and returning with combat experience. A lot of officers are veterans. Those jagoff gangbanging vets can get some too!!
Would the CPD allow you guys to purchase your own weapons? What are the rules on that anyway? I thought you weren't required to carry your service pistol, but could field whatever you want on your belt..is that true?
Every suburban police car I've ever seen has at least a Mossy 500 either in a rack next to the radio or on the ceiling...I can't believe you guys don't even have that. I'm a civilian and I have a shotgun!
As a citizen and gun owner, i'm not opposed to you guys getting M-4's. I ask only that if you can legally purchase and keep them in your squad on duty, that I be allowed to exercise my right as well and keep one in my home. As it is now, there are laws for cops, and laws for citizens..regardless of their criminal records - and that's bullshit. Magazine limits? Give me a break.
Maybe you should ask Daley where all the money is going. You can get a nice AR from Rock River Arms for under $1000.
speechless...very scary
Hey SCC: This appeared on the video screen: "Sorry this video is no longer available". I'm familiar with the shooting and seen the video in the past. Can you get the video back up? Everyone should see this video.
As this country's economy melts down into "Great Depression II", we will see more attacks against first responders. The public, who are watching their investments and 401k's disssapear, will be very angry. They will be very angry at our elected leaders in government. They will not have immediate access to vent their anger on their elected government leaders, but they'll have immediate access to the first level of government service: First responders-because we have to respond to 911 calls. The vented anger will lead to more confrontations and I believe ambushes against us.
It's September of 2008 and the economy stinks. It seems every day we're hearing on the news or City-Wide 1 of more officer involved shootings. By 2010, the economy will be terrible and the ooficer involved shootings will be way up. 2008 will look like the good ol' days.
It's bad enough to go against a "man with a gun"; it'll be devastating to go against a trained man with a semi-automatic rifle. The Glock pistol is great, but no comparison to the capabilities of the M4.
Superintendent, I know you read this blog. Do you really want to keep the M4 away from the guys?
I apologize for the long post.
how would having a rifle in the car have helped in the case cited? its unlikely any PD is going to allow beat cops to carry rifles all the time, and as a practical matter its probably a bad idea to do so.
anyone recall a few years ago when a cop serving a warrant armed with an mp5 shot a perp. put a number of rounds in the guy, like ten. the guy did not go down, but the cops had a chance to get the heck out and waited for him to bleed until unconscious if I recall the story correctly. some where in CA I think.
chances are the power minds are not going to allow you to lock and load except in very limited circumstances.
Can't wait for the Obama riots. Win or loose there are going to be allot of ghetto's burning come election day.
daley the idoit does not like citizens intimidated by our guns the POS! Maybe that is why his bodyguards err sorry valets, have no weapons training! Hey boss did you start from the top and equip all of daleys detail cars and burkes with gps? We are worried we want to make sure they are protected 24/7! Thanks for "starting at the top"!
The West Side Rev said...
I can't believe my eyes. As the leader of a major west side congregation of 25 I find this video totally unacceptable. How can they blame the poor young Marine who obviously was not given the oppurtunity to obtain the American dream. How this society manages to leave these potential brain surgeons behind is beyond the pale. All I ask is the Hispanic community begin a foundation to provide educational oppurtunities to these poor lost souls. Perhaps a UNCF type organization would work. I suggest leaders in the Hispanic community contact Commander Stanley of the CPD and find out how to sell muffins, popcorn and salad to fund this cause. Remember "a mind is a terrible waste." I think that how the slogan goes. Got to go now and prepare my sermon for next Sunday's service. I'm very confident I'll have an overflow crowd of 30 for the service.
Have a nice day. Time to get my Escalade hand washed - those spinners are hard to keep clean. Tax exempt status - standing behind the Mayor and Superintendent Weis at press conferences - being quoted in the media all the time - just like the commerical says "PRECIOUS."
9/17/2008 05:36:00 AM
Satire is always the best way to focus light on an issue. Gangbangers are continually being enabled by those who are quite incorrectly identified as "men of the cloth." Who exactly gives these pontificating fools the platform the so desparately need? Yes Boys and Girls it's our own Mayor Daley.
I beseech each and every one of you to take action against these blights on society every chance you get. Rev. Smith runs a ligth, nail him. Rev. Jones interferes with an arrest, nail him. Rev. Brown disrupts the desk area inquiring about an arrested honor student, nail him. Nail each one with every legitimate charge you can place against them. If the Watch Commander refused to approve charges catalog each bit of information and send it to the media. Who knows, maybe there is one journalists out there with some moral integrity who will run with the story. If nothing else you can't believe how good it feels. I'm no longer with you kids but I did what I'm suggesting at least 5 times and boy did I feel good about it. These phony a-holes have been given carte blanche all to long.
Stay Safe and try not to let the a-holes get to you.
a lot of the Old timers are combat vets, maybe some of them are useful..more so than 30 yo college kids and moms playing police.
That isn't suprising. But even more shocking IS...Gangbangers on CPD!
hater, is correct when he questions having a 60 year old policeman on the street.Even if the old prick works out todays young ones would most likely kick his ass.I know I am one of them.The will is still there but physically?Unfortunately we are still hear cause we need the cash.I aim to leave as soon as I can.So, please, hater, bear with me a little longer.
I'll take my experience with a hand gun and a little lady luck over a long gun any day!!!
I dont think you all deserve rifles, as a gun owner here in IL.
When law abding gun owners can carry such without you all busting them for it, then maybe.
When folks can get CCW like they have in in Vermont, or Alaska, then sure.
my 2 cents.
I dont think you all deserve rifles, as a gun owner here in IL.
When law abding gun owners can carry such without you all busting them for it, then maybe.
When folks can get CCW like they have in in Vermont, or Alaska, then sure.
my 2 cents.
9/17/2008 10:18:00 PM
I'm sorry you had a bad experience or maybe you're just soft! We need to be armed better to protect the rights of honest citizens and ourselves! We are outgunned, so that means you are too! Most of us believe in conceal carry for the deserving. You may have no worries living in your farm house, but here in chicago we have a war going on!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I dont think you all deserve rifles, as a gun owner here in IL.
When law abding gun owners can carry such without you all busting them for it, then maybe.
When folks can get CCW like they have in in Vermont, or Alaska, then sure.
my 2 cents.
9/17/2008 10:18:00 PM
Listen hear Jed. If you folks want CCW tell your legislators. Cops have nothing to do with Jed having the right to carry a concealed weapon. The point of the Police having rifles is that we are out gunned by non law abiding jagoffs. So me not having or having a rifle will never have any bearing on you stupid. Join the NRA and protest. Trust me dummy, in a city of liberal fools the Cops may be the only people on your side in this fight, pick your enemies wisely.
Anonymous said...
a lot of the Old timers are combat vets, maybe some of them are useful..more so than 30 yo college kids and moms playing police.
9/17/2008 07:37:00 PM
The combat vets can shoot, especially the snipers! I was an E-7 Navy, qualified but why should I even join swat? With the city not backing us up on good hits, and all the lawsuits the city lets happen, why bother? What is the incentive? I was on tact years ago where the benefits were there, after that gangs north more benefits! Now i am in a unit, wearing my blue shirt proudly, have some land in Indiana (Not the flooded areas), building a new home in the KMA club again why bother? Maybe for the overtime at the airports for that incentive? sorry no!
The police are worried about gangbangers in the military??
WHY??Your agency is just going to hire them anyways under this PC BS world that has been created.
We need to be armed better to protect the rights of honest citizens and ourselves!
9/18/2008 01:18:00 AM
But you dont protect honest citizens,its not your job,it never was.Being CPD is about Irish Welfare.The only thing you are going to protect is your pension.
Its EVERY citizens god given right to carry a weapon for personal defense.Wait,before you embarrass yourself "ill arrest you your breaking the law"
Are you not supposed to enforce the Law of the Land??"to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Some "special" people got to go to DS Arms and buy some black rifle toys a little while back.
The West Side Rev said...
I can't believe my eyes. As the leader of a major west side congregation of 25 I find this video totally unacceptable. How can they blame the poor young Marine who obviously was not given the oppurtunity to obtain the American dream...
9/17/2008 05:36:00 AM
_________________________
When I was taking the required ethics course for my degree, the class had a few similar discussions about school, opportunity and the American dream.
The students were asked to design a government program to address the "alarming" issue of the hispanic dropout rate.
My answer appalled the teacher: there should not be a government program to address the dropout rate of any racial group, and if the government does anything, it should hold the parents responsible. Of course the students with the most radical and socialist views received accolades.
I posed a general question that made everyone think. At what point do we stop government intervention into our lives? A program to get kids into school sounds great, but what if it doesn't work and what would be the next step? If the kids don't show should the state place a monitor in the house? Does the government need to be sitting at the breakfast table, making sure the kids eat healthy and practice their ABCs? They answered no, but they understood my point. When we open the door just a little, the government pushes it wide open. These programs enslave the generation, and make them dependant.
We also discussed the American dream and making opportunities. Again, I was admonished for mentioning BET and MTV for presenting unattainable lifestyles. I asked why kids in the ghetto kill each other for their new Jordans. They couldn't respond.
This also ties into the current topic of gangs and what officers face in the streets. The media has ignored its responsibility to the public welfare by glorifying violence and gangs, and over emphasising the value of material possessions and money. How many of us have come across a gang banger who has his best ghetto gear on, 20in spinners, but hasn't taken a shower in a week. Not to mention the military lowering its standards.
Liberals have won the war on conservatism. When are we going to fight back?
I'm one of those 60 year olds you're talking about. I may not be able to run as fast, or as far, or do as many chin ups or pulls us as a twenty something. but what I do have is experience. One of the things I've learned is that we're expendable to the city. Its cheaper to pay death bennies than lawsuits for the shootings they envision if we have carbines, shotguns, or even magnum revolvers or autoloaders. Look how long it took to get them to authorize something other than a revolver "chambered for a .38 cal." We are a liability to the city and that's how we're percieved. How amny guys have their own arsenal at home? How man could equip themselves tonight if need be? If the city gave more than lip service to our "safety" what would it take to authorize you to carry anything you wanted. They could (and should) mandate qualification with any weapon for duty use and it wouldn't cost them a dime. Do you see them doing that? Do you hear anything close to that coming from J-fed or the Mayor? No. And you won't. Hell Shortshanks still if fighting us carrying after we retire. So what makes any of you think he will while we're still working?
I take umbrige to the idea that just because I'm 60 yoa that I'm useless. Now I amy not be as fast or as strong as you kids but lets see how you are at my age. I could be behind a dest-but I won't do that. I may only be a detective, and I don't really answer calls, but I'm still on the street at times. I also have combat experience. Now it may have been in Viet Nam a mere 40 years ago or so. but who do you want behind you if you call for help. A soccer mom who came on this job to be somebody's secretary? Or maybe you'd prefer the guys who came on this job so the city would pay for their college then they could go on to bigger and better things. Or how about the kiddies who have never seen or tasted combat who's closest experience is playing Wii or watching a good movie. I may be older and slower than you, but I'll be there if you need me.
They showed this video when I attended TARA.
Actually, they showed a program from the History channel talking about this problem in great detail including the military policy that allowed "shitheads" to get in.
Never thought I would see this in the military. Disgusting and very, VERY fucking scary!
I honestly think some of you range guys should get together, incorporate, get together with a north and south side range and start offering shooting and combat shooting classes. Teach on the duty weapons, the shotgun and the M-4..Like I said, if you're on a scene with a copper who takes the power test and training, carries the m-4 but then get's shot and is down; Are you really just going to let that M-4 go unused?? That's just part of the short sightedness of this department's policies...Nothing is really thought through and much is knee jerk reaction..Professionalism starts at the top and at City Hall...
Sgt. O'Brien
006
Sergeant for life and proud...
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