The Horror
We deleted a bunch of comments in yesterday's thread. We warned everyone that it wasn't the time or place to second guess, pontificate, share stories of personal redemption, or even curse the horror perpetrated yesterday. We're still debating opening up this thread to various types of comments that are invariably going to appear at times like these. We'll probably delete them, too.
Cops are witness to violent death far too often. It take a toll on the psyche. Think for a second about how many broken, wounded, dead bodies you've seen this year - not pictures, not after CFD has left for the ER, but on scene, where the blood is fresh, people are screaming, the paramedics are working. If you're somewhere busy as a street copper, it's probably around five, ten, maybe twenty? As a detective somewhere busy, maybe thirty or fifty? If you're lucky, maybe only once? Or not this year?
The slaying of a child by a parent is an unspeakable horror, one of the few things that will rock a cop to his or her core. We are human, many of us have families, and one of the prices paid by having a front row seat to this circus is that occasionally, you get to see the absolute worst humanity has to offer.
We saw a lot of people going through the motions yesterday. It was even worse than what we saw following the slayings of Officers Francis and Soto. And the juxtaposition of "father" and "protector" with "killer" is hard to reconcile.
We've said this before, we'll say it again, and sadly, someone will have to do the whole dance again sometime in the future, either here on the blog or somewhere else:
Cops are witness to violent death far too often. It take a toll on the psyche. Think for a second about how many broken, wounded, dead bodies you've seen this year - not pictures, not after CFD has left for the ER, but on scene, where the blood is fresh, people are screaming, the paramedics are working. If you're somewhere busy as a street copper, it's probably around five, ten, maybe twenty? As a detective somewhere busy, maybe thirty or fifty? If you're lucky, maybe only once? Or not this year?
The slaying of a child by a parent is an unspeakable horror, one of the few things that will rock a cop to his or her core. We are human, many of us have families, and one of the prices paid by having a front row seat to this circus is that occasionally, you get to see the absolute worst humanity has to offer.
We saw a lot of people going through the motions yesterday. It was even worse than what we saw following the slayings of Officers Francis and Soto. And the juxtaposition of "father" and "protector" with "killer" is hard to reconcile.
We've said this before, we'll say it again, and sadly, someone will have to do the whole dance again sometime in the future, either here on the blog or somewhere else:
- Help is available. Everything is not hopeless. There are ways to deal with the pain, the agony, the unbearable weight of existing day after day after day. Call someone.
Reach out ladies and gentlemen. If it isn't you, but someone you know dealing a situation of unimaginable anguish, reach out to them. One day, they'll thank you.
Labels: scc responds
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
90 Comments:
Very well put SCC...Thank you
I should be sleeping right now, but I am up thinking about those kids, that mother and everyone at the scene.
All are in my thoughts and prayers.
The sun-times is linking to this website right on the top story.
I have had the news since 1030 on the day it happened. Just by text message and I have still not recovered. SCC, can you let us know if anything is being done for the mother? I agree with other posters and believe we should do our best to help this grieving mother. God bless one and all!
I didn't know until I saw the news why I was praying for the children. I will continue to pray for the family.
Damnit! Why! Why ! Why! hurt your defenseless children!?!?!?! This sucks.
Every unit has at least 3-5 Peer Support members. Seek them out, they'll help steer you and will keep quiet about it.
There is help everywhere and people will listen if you ask.
Rest the souls of the dead and God be with the surviving son and the mother of the kids.
Please ask for help. I have been touched by suicide. Ask for help. There is help out there and I can tell you, everything CAN GET BETTER.
I could never imagine killing a child, but that doesn't mean that there is not help out there for someone who has these thoughts.
If you are a P.O. in need of someone to talk to, PLEASE-PLEASE look in your FOP book for Professiona Counseling Service and call that number. If you don't want to involve the job,check yourself in to a clinic where you can talk to someone. Do everytihng you can to make the situation better. Even if it is totalk to a professional just to get shit off of your chest. There only two reasons people generally can think of to kill themselves: Hopelessness and anger trying to get revenge. If you are thinking about either killing someone or killing yourself, please call someone and talk with them. It can't hurt. Call 311 and tell them you want to talk with someone. Tell them you want a car to drive you to a hospital. Tell them you are Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter. Please call and talkwith someone. Life will always get better than it is at the point you want to kill yourself or others...
We must all reach out to officers that we see falling away! Far to many times we just "let it happen" and watch the officer destroy his/her or someone else's life when we could of helped them! God speed to that officer and his child! This police dept. is being run down and all we have is each other to take crae of take a chance look out for another officer!
i will pray for the soul of this officer who in his despair & despondency could not overcome his moment of darkness in the end...may God have love & mercy on his soul and embrace this prodigal son. i will not second guess the pain that must of been so unbearable...for their daughter, may she be an angel watching over her family & us...for their son, may God heal him physically & emotionanally...also prayers for the mother.
Some time ago, a class was offered in the academy 'emotional survival' and it should be offered again...so many officers responding to 911 calls, giving 150% of themselves to this job neglecting their personal lives which ends in disarray reflected in divorce, suicide, alcoholism, etc...watch out for your brother, give him a smile, a kind word, and back him/her up when he is having troubles. God bless all first responders.
Ive worked in 007, 008 and 009 in my carrier. Lokking from the outside into the inside now when i see 007th dist police "ususlly @ Holy Cross or at a lunch location (( ALWAYS OUTSIDE OF 007)) you can see it in all their faces... they are shell shocked from working their. In other districts you can escape the HELL but in 007 HELL surrounds you and you can snapp...................please dont let these dirtbags ever effect your inner being
I have never experienced these feelings. I would offer to anyone who has the overwhelming feeling of hopelessness please find someone to talk to.
I beg that before you take that step take a moment and find a friend or someone you trust. Vent your feelings.
You may feel alone out there but realize that we are out there. We who are willing to sit and talk over a cup of coffee. NO PROBLEM is to big to overcome with a little help from your friends who also wear a uniform.
We all have problems. We all need someone to talk to occasionally.
Suicide is NOT the answer to any problems. You may think you wont be missed, but in all actuality you will be missed by friends and family and co-workers. A true friend is someone who walks in when the others have walked out.
My brother in laws mother commited suicide. It has left him with a terrible emotional scar.
All ya gotta do is say lets have a cup of coffee. We have to stick together in these tough times.
PLEASE FIND HELP
Prayers for the families who have lost.
GOD bless the children..........
Well said SCC, for those of you who bash SCC's views, one thing should never be disputed, SCC cares about thier brothers and sisters in blue/white.
God bless the family and please if you know someone who may need help, speak up, I would rather have someone hate me and bash me than attend another funeral.
"The Horror"
Good title bt; is one thing that nobody can understand until they are subjected to it, fully immersed in it for a prolonged period of time. They attempt to instill this into you at the Academy but until you see it,feel it, hear it and touch it, it doesn't register.
Working a fast district on mids or afternoons for a few years and it will touch you. You don't notice it but it changes you over time.
This is one thing civilians and the Feds don't comprehend, the day in and day out grind, the stress and the emotional toll it has. This is why coppers drink to unwind after carrying a murdered child or seeing a child viciously beaten and sexually abused. You see things that Hollywood can't depict and it is real.
We are all that we have, we are the only ones who understand each other. Other than combat troops who have served a tour in some hell hole who deals with this stuff everyday, day in and day out?
Things in the US are only going to get worse in the short run, please prepare yourselves mentally,physically and emotionally for what is coming. In order to make the finish line you have to get there in one piece.
The FOP should use this tragedy to foster some good. There is no excuse or justification for what occurred but there is ample evidence to point to aggravating factors that could push an officer over the edge. Suicides are extremely high in law enforcement and are generally swept under the rug by the department.
Maybe this should be addressed and policies put into place to effectively deter this kind of horrific tragedy.
More officers on the streets would alleviate alot of the pressure that beat officers are subjected to, getting rid of the sixth workday, implementing a fair and objective disciplinary and promotional process, granting expedient and fair contracts, providing 100% confidential, discrete and available counseling are some of the things that would remedy this.
How much more madness will we as a department be subjected to until effective change is implemented???
Suicides occur in a chain reaction sequence very often, please look for any signs of despair in your coworkers and do the right thing.
THERE ARE ALWAYS VIABLE OPTIONS!!!
I don't expect management to carry the ball on everything without some impetus from the rank and file; where the Hell is the FOP and where the Hell have they been while Rome burns???
Remember one thing, as a PO you sometimes never know the lives that you touch and the good that you do.
It does make a difference and someone does notice it.
if u feel down
if you feel down
and all alone
if your world is all but gone
just look up to
the sky above
and know you have a friend
if you feel down
and feel betrayed
and your friends have left you cold
just pray to God
for the strength
to help you carry on
if you feel down
and your life's a mess
and your family left you hurt
just praise the Lord
for all you've got
and it'll all begin to work.
if you feel down
and feel real sad
about something that you did
just worship God
with all your heart
and remember that he forgives!
THE PRAYER OF ST. FRANCIS
Lord, make me a channel of thy peace,
that where there is hatred, I may bring love;
that where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness;
that where there is discord, I may bring harmony;
that where there is error, I may bring truth;
that where there is doubt, I may bring faith;
that where there is despair, I may bring hope;
that where there are shadows, I may bring light;
that where there is sadness, I may bring joy.
Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted;
to understand, than to be understood;
to love, than to be loved.
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.
It is by dying that one awakens to Eternal Life.
Sancte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio contra nequítiam et insídias diáboli esto præsídium. Imperet illi Deus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, princeps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in mundo, divína virtúte, In inférnum detrude. Amen.
Queen of Peace Pray for us, we humbly beseech thee.
Along time ago an officer close to me talked a jumper off a ledge.. the officer never told anyone what he said to that person. and I could have never known either until I put my time in on this job in some of the worst areas in the city. so I put this to anyone out here. no matter how bad it my seem its worse else where and be thankful for what you have, and if you ever need to talk call me or anyone,anytime. LOST In Fillmore. numbers in the book. 7847
SCC,
Thanks again for a venue to vent, express frustration, suggest improvement, educate, ballbust, laugh, ridicule and develop espirit de' corps.
True Blue, Through and Through!!!
SCC,
The statement about help is available is right on. Their is more now then ever. Back in the 90,s I was a W/C in 007th District. A young PO came to me and told me he was going to commit suicide, That he couldnt continue any more. We got no training back then, no guidance, only our humanity, common sense and police skills. After I talked with him for about 1 hour I called the CHaplaind office on the 24hour line. I got in touch with Father Nagle who was on call and arranged forhim to meet right away with the officer, I excused him sick and sent him to meet the priest. Zfrom their the Chaplain got him into some professional help. I carrried that officer on the A and A sheets for a week. Fuck the Department and God bless the PO. I never told anyone except my wife and the officer came cack and thanked me. Officers look out for each other most bossses have the same compassion you have especially for each other. Stop look and listen to each other. We all have that humanity and capacity to reach out , help out and support each other.
RETIRED EXEMPT MEMBER
The National Police Suicide Foundation suggests that it's even higher among police officers. The Maryland-based group estimates that 400 to 450 police officers take their lives each year, two to three times the 150 to 200 who die in the line of duty.
UNDER THE BLUE SHADOW: Clinical and Behavioral Perspectives on Police Suicide
By John M. Violanti, Stephanie Samuels
Publisher: C. C Thomas; 1 edition (October 2007)Published 2007
Police Suicide: Epidemic in Blue (American Series in Behavioral Science and Law) (Paperback)
# Paperback: 178 pages
# Publisher: Charles C. Thomas Publisher; 2 edition (September 2007)
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 0398077630
# ISBN-13: 978-0398077631
# Product Dimensions: 10 x 7.1 x 0.6 inches
192 pp., 7 x 10, 1 il.
http://www.copline.org/
I would like to comment on this thread, some of the posters are saying *If you are feeling low etc. reach out...*
The problem is, you can tell someone there is help, but they don't hear you because they are wrapped up in their own agonies.
I would hope that IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO NEEDS HELP, YOU CALL THE PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING AND OR PEER SUPPORT for them. The help will actually SEEK THEM OUT, and your chances of having them actually end up getting help are much better.
IF YOU KNOW someone who seems to be down and out for any reason, who's behavior is changed or whatever, yes, you should tell them to get some help, but as a follow up, call the prof. couns. office yourself and ask them to contact the person...THEY WILL, now you have ensured there will be contact.
If your friend/coworker gets mad at you for it, well, I would rather have an ALIVE friend mad at me than a DEAD one.
God bless the little children, and our brother who was full of despair.
Be there for each other.
O glorious Archangel St Michael, Prince of the heavenly host, defend us in battle, and in the struggle which is ours against the principalities and Powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, against spirits of evil in high places. Come to the aid of men, whom God created immortal, made in his own image and likeness, and redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of the devil.
18 Years on this job and I thought after seeing more death, violence and despare then any human being should, I thought I could take anything on this job. The thought of one of our Brother officers being in such a low place that he had to do this. Well it brought me to tears. I’ll pray for his Children, I’ll pray for the Mother of the children and I will pray for Dannie.
Former Englewood Ranger
well done,scc.Been retired a long time...memories of good times remain...but so do some of the horror....well done
Some time ago, a class was offered in the academy 'emotional survival' and it should be offered again...so many officers responding to 911 calls, giving 150% of themselves to this job neglecting their personal lives which ends in disarray reflected in divorce, suicide, alcoholism, etc...watch out for your brother, give him a smile, a kind word, and back him/her up when he is having troubles. God bless all first responders.
___________________________________
I took this class and found it very informative. Maybe they need us all to take this class and if we were to have to take this class. Don't take it as some joke because we are suppose to bug and brave . It will help you help yourself and your co-workers.
Also WE MUST watch over each other each and everyday and if you see your co-worker needs some help encourage that person to seek help. Go with him and be their friend as they seek help. Give them all that they need. There is always talk that if the shit hits the fan that I got your back. Well that doesn't nean just on the street working in the jungle. But it should also mean if times are tough that we will be there for you before it gets too far. When people go to AA sometimes that take a sponsor with them for support to help them. We should also offer that same support if they are having trouble of any kind.
I will pray for the family of this officer, his co-workers and all the peopple that are affected by this tragedy.
Remember:
A FRIEND IN NEED
IS A FRIEND IN DEED
Befriend someone today
random drug testing how bout random couseling? Radomly select P.O.s to go down and talk to shrink for an hour just to get stuff off their chest. Nothing tosay, no troubles, talk about the bears for an hour. No rating or grading except in extreme circumstances absolutely confidential. No affiliation with the city. All I know is I was there and this can't happen again. every cop there was on the brink of tears.
It is NO FLUKE this happened.You can walk into ANY roll call and see the potential for a repeat.When you subject a good human being to unimaginable stresses from inside and outside the job PEOPLE SNAP.When you inundate good people with overwhelming scrutiny,scorn and ridicule PEOPLE SNAP.When you have 1/2 the people doing 3 TIMES THE WORK,PEOPLE SNAP.When you make the rules up as you go along PEOPLE SNAP.Please GET US MORE BODIES,PLEASE,that is all we are asking for.
St. Jude, patron saint of lost causes, pray for them.
St. Jude, patron saint of the Chicago Police Department, pray for them.
Glorious St. Michael the Archangel, defend those who defend us. Keep them safe from all harm, physical and mental.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
God Bless those Children.
Call St. Michael House, they do help, I used it.
I wondered what the reference to "the children" in yesterday's post was about.
Its hard to understand the demons that might cause this kind of thing. Most likely, no one will ever really know why.
If this isn't the wake-up call to our bosses ,I don't know what is.Everything they are TRYING TO AVOID with the advent of USELESS TECHNOLOGY is what is causing this dilemma.We don't need CAMERA'S,SEGWAYS,G.P.S. or MEANINGLESS ETHICS TRAINING.We need more people,without them this is going to explode one day and cost a lot of lives.WHERE ARE OUR 13,000 bodies???????????????????
It is very true that no matter what district you work in EVERY DAY there is something or someone who pushes us too far....This does not and never has happen in the FBI on a daily basis year after year...WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT J-FED....except making it worse ....you don't want your troops to snap ...well ok give us something positive....instead of always negative...day after day after day
Nobody would ever see this comming. Not from Dannie. God Bless the family, the survivors are mentally ruined and need help through this.
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Ive worked in 007, 008 and 009 in my carrier. Lokking from the outside into the inside now when i see 007th dist police "ususlly @ Holy Cross or at a lunch location (( ALWAYS OUTSIDE OF 007)) you can see it in all their faces... they are shell shocked from working their. In other districts you can escape the HELL but in 007 HELL surrounds you and you can snapp...................please dont let these dirtbags ever effect your inner being
9/16/2008 01:35:00 AM
You sir or madam should seek help as soon as possible. This you can't blame on Englewood or any other districts or units. No other group of people or life style. An ounce of truth is needed. Things like this, as awful as they are. usually are generated by selfishness and vindictiveness. Every act good or bad made by PO's are not necessarily a response to their work places and job descriptions.
Pray as we may, everything that we carry around inside of us doesn't necessary have to be linked to who and what we do for a living. It become quite too convenient to lay blame on someone else, something else....But the truth is that we and we alone are responsible for our actions. Please don't try to give the slightest hint of justifications or rationalization, for why a person can come to this point in their lives and do such a terrible thing, we can ill afford to give anyone, any kind of excuses of why they might have been pushed or forced to do such a despicable act. Sometime the hell we live in, is in the mirror that we stand before dressing for work each day.
I just pray for the children and the family. It was senseless. i just dont undersatnd the taking of INNOCENT childrens lives. GOD BLESS
I worked in a very busy south side district and after about 9yrs had seen enough of the shit on a daily basis. I was always angry, high BP, etc. Not that 9yrs is a lot but in a ghetto district 9yrs can feel like 15. I left for a different district, although a part of me ddint want to because I enjoyed the people i worked with. I am in a place that is much more stress free now. Dont get me wrong, every district has its prolems and shit can happen anywhere, but there are places where its an everyday thing and there is no where to escape it. Im not saying this guy snapped from police work, i have no idea what his home life was like but regardless its NEVER so bad to kill your children or yourself. Take a step back, get help and dont think u are weak because u do so. We are humans and although the general public does NOT undersatnd that we too are affected by what happens around us. We are not machines, its impossible to go to 6-7 domestics a night, maybe a shooting or 2, a robbery, burglary etc and see this daily and not be jaded. I made the move and was given a breath of fresh air. This may not work for everyone, but find what works for you and DO IT FAST!
St Michael, Heavens glorious Commissioner of Police, who once so neatly and successfully cleared Gods premises of all its undesirables, look with kindly and professional eye on your earthly force. Give us cool heads, stout hearts, hard punches, and an uncanny flair for investigation and wise judgement. Make us the terror of burglars, the friend of children of law abiding citizens, kind to strangers, polite to bores, strict with law breakers and impervious to temptations. You know St Michael from your own experiences with the devil that the police officers lot on earth is not always a happy one, but your sense of duty that so pleased God, your hard knocks that surprised the devil, and your angelic self control give us inspiration.
And when we lay down our night sticks, enroll us in your Heavenly Force, where we will be as proud to guard the throne of God as we have been to guard our city. AMEN
Now is the time to anchor yourself to the "rock", Christ.
This brings me to tears. I pray the Lord has mercy on his soul, and strengthens the family remaining. Police Officers/humanity, please seek help! It does all look very hopeless,but it really isn't. THERE IS STILL GOOD IN THIS WORLD!
However way it may seem, look for it, ask for it, you will find it. Please do not give in to the spirit of violence in this world. To police officers..You are so important! We the would be victims need you...But even more important you are to your loved ones! You owe it to your selves and your families to seek out help. Please put aside pride and the old saying,"to be a man and walk it off!!" SERIOUSLY! Real men are human and they cry and feel fear too!
No amount of benefits or money is worth your life..If you find that you cannot go on with this line of work, seek something else. I know the quality of life is better with better benefits and better income, but it's not worth your life or the life of your children/family. I'm sure you are more appreciated ALIVE AND WELL and being able to be HELD/HUGGED by the ones that love you...
I love you guys, and may the Lord bless you, guide you, and protect you all men/woman in law inforcement who constantly have to answer a call to see the worse in humanity..THAT NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST YOU SHALL NEVER PROSPER, IN JESUS' NAME!!
The word of God tells us "to walk by faith and not by sight". And to "command every thought into captivity unto the obedience of Christ". If you've never tried the Lord, try today! His word and guidance is as honey to your bones!(Healing and Sweet!)This is very real and never corny!
I also pray that the "peace of the Lord that surpasses all understanding" be with this family! In Jesus' name.. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!
I was talking to my friend a therapist about my teenaged son who is confused about what direction he should take in college. I suggested that maybe he should look into being a fireman or a cop. My therapist told me it takes a very special type of person to "handle" such a job. That he treats more cops and firemem than any other demographic. My hat is off to you guys, I remember being told once that if the papers printed half the insanity you guys see, we'd all never leave our houses.
D.M. was in my homeroom at the academy and was strong but silent. He wasnt mentally weak and was a good worker. Despite this tradgedy i have good memories about him. I never expected this but really who does? I moved across the country to take this job and at times in the academy was feeling pretty isolated and alone. D.M. personally saught me out and talked to me when i needed to hear somebody. I wish i could have done the same for him. Dominus Vobiscum D.M., i wish we all would have known.
---Mattie McNic'
Along the lines of the original post. We get to see the very worst of people and the harm that is done to other humans.
We are good at hiding our emotions and keeping it bottled up inside because we don't think people would understand if we told them.
Find a close friend, a priest, professional counseling services & every now & then, just talk about it and try to let go. Don't wait until you hit rock bottom.
After almost 50 years on this earth and over 20 on the job, I can honestly say nothing shocked me anymore. Until yesterday. Imagine the terror those poor children felt as dad turned a gun on them. Say a prayer for them, and love your own kids twice over.
My prayers for the lost soul, the lost lives, the life in peril and the survivors of the tragedy.
If have problems, talk about them, to a friend, to a coworker, to a supervisor, to your minister, preacher, or priest.
My condolences to the family and friends and to the street cops who see too much of this every day.
ECS
http://theturkeyfootbrand.blogspot.com/
I for one have sought help in the EAP counseling when it became overwhelming. For once I'm glad I swallowed my pride and sought help. We view ourselves as unbreakable, but what we see everyday, plus personal issues will eat us alive and break us. We are human. If you fell overwhelmed seek help. It works. I can attest to that. As I was once told, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Please watch over each other and yourselves. If we don't no one else will.
Hello Blog Guys-
I just want to say that I am not always a huge fan of the blog, but I have a new found respect for you guys for your professionalism regarding this incident and letting the troops know the importance of getting help if you need it. Letting them know it's OK to get help and to forget about the social stigma is SO important. Forget about silly idea that we are cops and are suppose to be tough and emotionally handle all that we see out there in the field.
If you need to talk to someone, DO IT, if not for yourself, for your friends, your family and your fellow coppers out there!
Thanks!!
SCC, your message is right,,Get help..However, and for this you may not print this, As great a guy this officer may have been, unjustly taking another life is wrong and in the case of your own children, evil. At some point this officer made the choice to change from Father to killer in an effort to hurt his wife. Having dealt with depression for years and being at it's darkest depths, the thought of harming another was never a thought I had. You may feel that I'm judging this officer, and in my heart, yes I am. However, I think it very important to differentiate between depression and the willful murdering of one's child. It's up to God how he will deal with this officer, if it were pain and depression which motivated him then he may have just taken his own life. But he choose to cause the ultimate hurt to a woman he once professed to love. We, as the CPD family must be honest about this and confront this. You can't blame this on the job, this was murder and it's wrong and lacks credibility to say otherwise..If you don't post I respect your decision..
Thank you SCC, my heart truly aches for the children. I went home and hugged my son like there was no tommorrow. I feel like you do, if someone is having a hard time from any personal matter, forget about the code of silence, get him or her some help, be there for him or her. SCC thank you for caring about the rank and file; you truly do!
!
RETIRED EXEMPT MEMBER
9/16/2008 07:42:00 AM
You my friend are one of the Princes of Old. It is a damn shame that men of your caliber have left our ranks.
There are alot of great posts on this thread, lets lookout for one another more.
We are all that we have, we are the only ones who understand each other. Other than combat troops who have served a tour in some hell hole who deals with this stuff everyday, day in and day out?
Well son I have served in a hell hole of a DMZ zone don't get me wrong its hell. However the CPD is much worse The inhumanity to man day in and day out for 31 years took a hell of a toll. Lucky for me I had others that understood what this job does to us(mentally) someone to talk to and to seek advice from. You are not alone seek advice when you feel overwhelmed. Please post what we should do for the family.
Man, dude, you can write. What's your background? You're better with words than most of the freaking reporters in this town. Keep up the great work, SCC. You speak for a lot of us that aren't nearly as eloquent.
After a few years in a fast district you are a changed person.
Hey SCC, I have an idea. If you want to add a link to your blog with names of officers who are willing to talk to another officer having a difficult time, please do so and you can start with me. Let me know at girlcop5941@aol.com You have my phone number. Everyone needs someone to talk with once in a while.
A combat tour, since the end of Korea, has been no more than 15-18 months, unless the soldier extended voluntarily. You guys are on the street for years. You have my utmost respect.
ECS
CPT, AR
US Army (Ret.)
http://theturkeyfootbrand.blogspot.com/
VERY WELL SAID!
anonymous said...
SCC, your message is right,,Get help..However, and for this you may not print this, As great a guy this officer may have been, unjustly taking another life is wrong and in the case of your own children, evil. At some point this officer made the choice to change from Father to killer in an effort to hurt his wife. Having dealt with depression for years and being at it's darkest depths, the thought of harming another was never a thought I had. You may feel that I'm judging this officer, and in my heart, yes I am. However, I think it very important to differentiate between depression and the willful murdering of one's child. It's up to God how he will deal with this officer, if it were pain and depression which motivated him then he may have just taken his own life. But he choose to cause the ultimate hurt to a woman he once professed to love. We, as the CPD family must be honest about this and confront this. You can't blame this on the job, this was murder and it's wrong and lacks credibility to say otherwise..If you don't post I respect your decision..
9/16/2008 06:36:00 PM
Even a close personal friend or family member might not understand the true underlying cause of this tragedy, because no one can ever be in the mind of someone else. What does the fact that you suffered from depression and never thought of harming another have to do with this incident? Do you know - personally - that what this young man did was "willful"? How do you know he just didn't "snap"? Do you even know anyone involved or are you just a judgemental armchair psychologist who now considers himself an expert on matters of the mind because you once suffered from depression? I'm willing to bet your knowledge of this incident comes only from gossip and what you've read in the paper...people like you are what I intensely dislike about our profession. You think yourself better than everyone else, and since you were able to successfully get help for your problem, why, everyone else should be able to, also. You sound like a first-class jerk who probably doesn't have many friends. And that's beside the fact that you could have at least shown the decency and compassion to wait a few days for your inappropriate and self-righteous commentary.
The Sun-Times would not publish my comment.
Our Chicago Police Officers are treated more like Ford City Mall Security then Peace Officers.
Our city is extremely violent let alone goofball Chicagoans that are dumber then hell and many don't give a damn about our city let alone ... life iself.
You drive beat cars with what, 180k miles on them, no equipment, etc. This city sucks so much that on behalf of my tiny po memorial, I had to ask Mayor Daley to hold a terrorism trainign exercise. I have the fax to prove it plus I told SCC what I was going to do as I sent the fax. Dumbass then announces this to the media weeks later saying, 'I was just thinking about..."
Thinking, my ass.
In some suburbs not far from the city, many of you know that if you get stopped by certain depts., suddenly 5-6 cars arrive. This is just for minor traffic stops and no warrants, etc You know who these depts are. Burbank PD - civilians know that you better abide by the law. I saw one guy waiting for a bus stop someone last and told them that they were jaywalking which is illegal and cops would bust them.
The CPD is not allowed to carry out the law. Period. I have seen the savages out here. Yes, SCC, you know tey are savages and how they treat many of you.
I could never, ever be a cop or remotely in any way be in charge of this dept because any jackass not following the law deserves an ASP to their head, etc.
If at anything at all, I pray for the day that someone sues this city for inflicting stress upon all of you.
This entire city is an absolute disgrace and ghetto. I don't care if you live in Goldcoast, Wrigley, etc it's all the damn same.
God bless each and every one of you. Much love...
My thoughts and prayers for the family, the police family, and officers on scene.
Let people help you. Share the stories, sometimes talking can help. I am not the police but have some family on the job. Sometimes they tell stories - and it's not the ones that make them out to be some tough guy who should have a medal. It's heart wrenching to hear the details they seem to recall as if it were on TV happening right now. I can't imagine living it, but if my listening makes them feel a little better I have no problem doing so. I may not be able to relate but I can listen.
God Bless and keep you all. Be safe and THANKS
When I was a young "Cherry" private, my platoon sgt said something to me that I never forgot, "For every one year during peace time in the infantry, you age 3 years, and for every year in combat you age a decade." At the end of my time in, I'd aged 31 years, and was 28. I've aged another 40 years on this job so far. This instance is EXACTLY why it is bad to split partners up for extended periods of time on the watch or in a unit (I've done some of both now.....)
If you're lucky, you'll find a good partner, and with that line of thinking, I've been blessed, I've NEVER had a bad partner. When shit gets to you, your partners are the first to notice, even if you say nothing, they know. Sometimes you carry them, sometimes they carry you, sometimes you carry each other, and sometimes the load is too heavy for you together. We haven't hit that point yet, come close to it maybe, but haven't yet, thankfully. I STRONGLY URGE any exempt, watch commander, boss at all to heed this statement. The partnership is the primary early warning system of this job. We spend more time daily with our partners than anyone else in our lives. It gets old sometimes for both of you, like any relationship, but just like any relationship, it is forged through pain, fear, adversity, and TRUST.....something not easily gained or replaced.
Partners, by that same token, it is up to us, we'll miss some cues, but we'll see them too. If it's something you can't handle, it's up to you to cover your partner's ass by getting some help. The guy who said that he'd rather have an angry friend than a dead one is right, I'd sooner be hated by someone for helping, than hating myself for standing by and watching it happen.
With that said, may God, in his infinite mercy, watch over all of us, grant us peace and wisdom, heal our souls, and ease the pain of our family that has suffered so much in such a short period of time.
SCC: I know that you will not delay in posting any donation information for the family, or for that matter, any help that is needed, I stand ready to help.
GRAND CROSSING GUNSLINGER
May GOD have mercy on the young officer... May GOD bless the children, I pray that he sends his spirit of healing personified in his son our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ to abide with the surviving kin and those police officers first on the scene.
GOD help the fine men & women of this department... I cannot recall such a time in my nearly 50 years that Chicago Police Officers have been so blatantly and openly reviled and disrespected by the mayor, superintendent, the management echelon, the media and citizenry. My GOD, it seems as if the hits never stop coming...then this? I am heart broken over what this job has done to many GOOD men & women... The ones who abuse the public trust and tarnish the star need to be driven out, the overwhelming majority are trying to do their best to keep body, mind & soul together & return home to the warm embrace of their families and loved ones...
GOD bless us each and everyone.
9/16/2008 01:35:00 AM
You sir or madam should seek help as soon as possible. This you can't blame on Englewood or any other districts or units. No other group of people or life style. An ounce of truth is needed. Things like this, as awful as they are. usually are generated by selfishness and vindictiveness. Every act good or bad made by PO's are not necessarily a response to their work places and job descriptions.
Pray as we may, everything that we carry around inside of us doesn't necessary have to be linked to who and what we do for a living. It become quite too convenient to lay blame on someone else, something else....But the truth is that we and we alone are responsible for our actions. Please don't try to give the slightest hint of justifications or rationalization, for why a person can come to this point in their lives and do such a terrible thing, we can ill afford to give anyone, any kind of excuses of why they might have been pushed or forced to do such a despicable act. Sometime the hell we live in, is in the mirror that we stand before dressing for work each day.
9/16/2008 11:55:00 AM
This was obviously written by a house mouse or non cop..TRUST me..22years on in some of the worst shithole districts..this fucking job changes you..! WE ALL KNOW IT..! remember my brothers and sisters, which you all are, that there is help out there if you are feeling overwhelmed, lost or in the grips of the bottle or other crutch. GET help, reach out to your partners, they will help point you in the right direction. its up to all of us to look out for each other, and if neccesary, to carry each other over the goal line of retirement. be safe, and may the Lord God hold all of us in the palm of his hand.! St. Michael pray for us
God I ask you now to forgive this man and bless his kids. I ask you lord to protect his wife and give the strengh she will need. For that man to hurt his kids, he must have been in an exceptional amount of pain. I as a father of 2 love my kids as I am sure he did. Something went wrong in his life for this to happen. We must rember we are a family of blue no matter what we think of each other, we are still a family. When we chose this profession, the abilty to pick and chose who you will help in a time of need went out the window. Please stick together, and dont let petty BS get in the way. I pray for this man, his kids and his wife. Please God take them into your loving arms and hold in this time of need. Please God take us all by the hand everyday and walk through this job, world and life. Whoever you call as your God ask him or her to save us all and watch over us all. Even the people from IAD, they need love too no matter what.
9/16/2008 11:55:00 AM
...........................................You have misread my post or you have not seen what I have. Dont know where you have worked and i'm not painting with a broad brush but too much of 007 make the P.O's shell shocked.
If you dont believe me than lets see if you have the audasity to bid their and work their for 2-3 years on 1st or 3rd watch.
Good luck and God bless
Being a Supervisor for over a decade, I have seen a lot of hurt and anger in our job. I have also seen a lot of happiness and support. True, you may never know when a person is hurting. Sometimes, if you just take the time to listen and observe, something of significance may come to light.
I agree poster that what he did was evil, but I am sympathetic in the fact that he was truly mentally in need. Lets not attack each other for their opinion, but respect how many have dealt with their own issues and survived.
I know many police surround themselves with police. Heck, we can't run anyone but are held accountable if we associate with a felon. How in the hell are we supposed to know? We are brought to task for a city of crime that we have no true means of impacting. The powers at be that are making decsions, in reality, have no clue!
Lets not take this as a week of being supportive and cognizant of our sisters and brothers, lets make this a big step in the direction of healing!!
I am praying for you..........
SA
random drug testing how bout random couseling? Radomly select P.O.s to go down and talk to shrink for an hour just to get stuff off their chest. Nothing tosay, no troubles, talk about the bears for an hour. No rating or grading except in extreme circumstances absolutely confidential. No affiliation with the city. All I know is I was there and this can't happen again. every cop there was on the brink of tears.
______________________________
I think you are a genius!
That is an outstanding idea!
Random, confidential, meetings with a counselor... but I know so many coppers would say this is bullshit and be super skeptical.. But I truly think this is something we strongly need.
We need to look at our own abusive behavior towards each other. Those little, juicy, rumors that we share about other officers may do more harm than you probably ever intended. People don’t forget negative things they hear about other individuals. I know because myself, and the person I love, have been personally attacked. The rumors have been so nasty I have went home very frustrated and hurt, questioning my own judgment on who I could trust. I even took the frustration out on the ones I love, only because I had no one to talk to, or better said… no one I could trust to talk to. I can’t explain to my friends the stress and horror of this job, and some of the sick, twisted coppers that occupy it. Either way, they wouldn’t believe me, or they would get lost in my “Shop Talk”. We have to deal with the horrors of humanity, watch cop killers go free, and have our rights violated before Joe-the-bad-guy. It hurts when officers exclude you, or stop talking to you because of things they hear. You can feel the stares and the tension each time walking into a room. You can sense the change of scene when you appear and when you leave you can hear the low chatter of your name being whispered upon it. Jealousy can eat you alive and make you a bitter person, it can make you do irrational things, and act in the heat of the moment feelings that can sometimes be life altering.. or like this, life-ending. Take a good look at yourself and the things you have said and imagine if that person heard you… how would you feel? Embarrassed? Ashamed? Go make peace with that person and give them a chance, and next time someone wants to share a dirty, little rumor, just simply say.. Maybe you should tell that officer yourself, because I don’t want to hear it.
SCC:"Cops are witness to violent death far too often. It take a toll on the psyche."
I disagree.The gore doesnt really bother most.The real answer is the constant fucking with,corruption,infantile behavior,politics,un-professionalism of people in this industry.
Education,skills,abilities count for nothing in this Irish-welfare paradise.Coupled with hiring folks based on race,gender and sexuality.
It is simply madening to a person with education,street smarts,superior training,skill sets that someone who is a high school drop out and a gang sympathizer can get promoted and makes more than me.
I don't want this to sound like second guessing or whateer but, I have worked on the southside for a long time and I have seen a lot of different crime scenes and the disgusting abilities of people who have no reguard for human life. I know this job is not like any other, we deal with more thatn anyone should have to, but ladies and gentleman, it is just a job. This is something to put food on your table pay bills and give you the ability to live your life the way you want. I have seen many people who have turned this job into their life, that in my opinion is the wrong way to approach this profession. You need to have a life outside of work, you can't spend your day at work the go out drinking with the people you just spent 8 hours with. You will never be able to get away from it if you treat it like this, and everyone knows pleanty of people who treat it this way. I personally try to distance myself from work as much as possible, I do what I have to at work, but when midnight comes around I go home, I leave it at work. Home is the reason I am doing this job anyways. Please try not to immerse yourself and you entire being in the stupid job, there is nothing you can do to change what is being done, you responsibilty is to the people you have at home, be it a wife and kids or mother father, friends whatever.
http://www.geocities.com/stressline_com/police_stressline.html
I would like to salute the 009th District and SWAT. Where they found the strength to function is beyond me. SWAT; professional. The first responding officers; oh my God! The officers at the hospital with the children and family; bless your hearts. The wagon guys; JESUS! These PO's will never be the same. Prayers to Dannie, his cildren and the entire family!! (It is unfortunate that their commander had the audacity to chew them out the next day.)
"RETIRED EXEMPT MEMBER
9/16/2008 07:42:00 AM
You my friend are one of the Princes of Old. It is a damn shame that men of your caliber have left our ranks.
9/16/2008 08:20:00 PM"
SCC, You're really doing a disservice validating that drivel posted by the so-called exempt member. If he actually did what he claimed to do & it had tragic conseqences THE EXEMPT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCOUNTABLE. HE WASN'T GOING TO PUT HIS ASS ON THE LINE FOR THAT.
You must have had your BS Meter turned off that night. But think about it, really...
Signed, Wheel Gun
To 9/16/2008 06:36:00 PM:
Unless you are privy (which I seriously doubt) to the exact circumstances of this horrible case, please keep your ridiculous speculation to yourself. The mysteries of the human psyche are obviously beyond the reach of your understanding, given the platitudes you spew in your simplistic meanderings. You are one of those idiots who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. If I ever need counsel, I hope I don't mistake someone like you for a human being and seek it with you. You ARE truly a jerk.
05:53:00 PM
Thank you for the nice comments.
I watched the SWAT officers go in to rescue the children and they were ready for the worst.
They walked out and walked away quiet and somber, empty and spent.
I'll never forget, I'll always pray for those that go in and fight the evil men create.
To the officers of the 007th Dist. I am sorry for your loss. I didn't know this officer but he made the decision to become the police and for that we all know that he intended to do good in this world. It is unfortunate how his life and the lives of his children ended.
To the officers of the 009th Dist. Thank you for the way you handled the scene. It was messed up from the beginning when the dispatcher dispatched the job to one officer without a backup. We all came together within an instant and we all knew what to do without being told. You represented the CPD, your district and your watch with respect. It doesn't matter what your specific duty was that day, either at the scene knowing what was happening or answering calls and not know what was going on with this family or if their fellow officers were safe. The officers of the surrounding districts that came into 009 for assistance, we thank you also. Each and every one of us handled this incident with dignity, and don't you let anyone try to tell you any different. Not one officer, sgt., or captain at that scene did anyhing wrong, ARE YOU LISTENEING ROY, NOTHING WRONG. How dare you imply that a "blueshirt or whiteshirt" was spreading rumors, how dare you say that to those officers that dealth with that scene while you were in the command van or standing a block away, while your officers and supervisors were in that house. How dare you imply the officers did wrong-when your officers were the ones at the hospital talking to the children trying to keep them alive because that's all they could do. How dare you make that implication when your officers with not even two years' experience had to put his body in the wagon. You had no right to make that implication. If you felt that someone did or said something wrong at that scene you should have been a boss, a leader, and pulled them aside either that day or the next in order to find out what you wanted to know, but you couldn't even give us that much respect, to just talk to us instead of imply that someone did a bad job. We were better off without that meeting, we were doing just fine without your pep talk. You are the one that should be ashamed of himself, not us. Instead of it being us against them, it is always us against you.
RIP, Alizay, and please God tend to her brother and mom. At this time I can not feel anything for her dad, I believe he was young enough and new enough to realize the help available. And quit trying to make englewood the problem. Been there, done that when it was still fully populated, while I do know that it is a special/unique place, it was/is still one of the best places to LEARN!!! I was trained there by FTO's who spent their whole careers in 007 and they did not do anything so drastic. I believe it takes a certain mind set to be the poleece, and just like in any profession some people slip through that do not belong. I understand anger, but I do not understand hurting innocent children to get back at the source .
The anti-gun crowd is determined to make hay over this. These clowns are claiming that police shouldn't have access to guns away from work.
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=3185
September 16, 2008
Off-Duty Chicago Cop Kills Young Daughter, Then Self On Southwest Side, Young Son Also Critically Wounded
Gun Guys
The Chicago Tribune reported today, Sept. 15th a horrific murder-suicide involving a Chicago police officer who shot and killed his 7-year-old daughter while his 9-year-old son fights for his life.
An off-duty Chicago police officer shot his young son and daughter, then committed suicide inside his home on the Southwest Side Monday morning, officials said. The girl later died.
The children were found with bullet wounds to their bodies inside the officer's home in the 2700 block of West 43rd Street, about 10:45 a.m., police spokeswoman Monique Bond said.
The man was found with what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound in the head, she said. Officials have given varying ages of the children, but public records show the girl was 7 years old and the boy was 9.
The man and two children have not been identified by authorities. The children were taken to Mt. Sinai Hospital in critical condition, and the girl was pronounced dead at 11:52 a.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner's office. She appeared to have been shot in the head, an office spokesman said.
The man, who a police spokeswoman said was a 4-year veteran of the department who worked in the Englewood District, was pronounced dead at 12:22 p.m. at the scene. He was described as in his late-20s.
First Deputy Supt. James Jackson said police believe the officer and his ex-wife had joint custody of the children and had been divorced for about three years. Authorities, however, were still trying to determine the exact nature of their relationship history.
The mother was not at the home at the time of the shooting. She later arrived at Mt. Sinai Hospital to be with her children, according to police.
This tragedy has clearly shocked the families, community and the Chicago Police Department.
Here is the challenge: Although we need police officers to be armed to protect themselves while on-duty, many law enforcement officers also have easy access to their firearms while off-duty. This puts law enforcement officers and their families at risk of gun-related homicide and suicide--and even unintentional injury--if guns are kept in the home or carried off-duty.
It rarely occurs, but when a law enforcement official turns from a being protector to an attacker, the tragedy is all the more compounded. For example, in Wisconsin, Crandon Sheriff's Deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, murdered 6 people, including his ex-girlfriend in Oct. 2007 following a verbal fight. The brutal crime sent the small community reeling.
Clearly, everyone, including police officers, are at risk from the combination of a violent and suicidal impulse with the lethal means (guns) to act out on that rage. We strongly encourage you to read our previous post from Nov. 7th on preventing police suicides.
Better counseling, monitoring, and psychological testing are all key to preventing these tragedies. Although these preventative measures should be implemented, in some cases there are still "cultural" issues that stop police officers from seeking help and counseling in dealing with anger or suicidal impulses. This issue requires a comprehensive strategy with no easy solutions.
We certainly can't keep guns out of the hands of officers, but we could implement measures to address warning signs to reduce the risk of gun violence and gun suicides, such as educating all gun owners about the true risk of owning firearms.
The shooting of 2 young children by their father is an unspeakable tragedy for Chicago, and we pray for the families, friends and fellow officers of the victims in this violent and brutal attack...
These weasels never saw a gun control proposal they didn't like and have advocated taking guns away from police in the past.
ECS
http://theturkeyfootbrand.blogspot.com/
Scc,
Sounds like some of the po's may need time to reflect on their experience that tragic day.
Seeking out help po or not, is a step in the right direction. It can be healing for another unbiased & confidential person to take in what a po has to tell. The po can let the thoughts out and hopefully leave them there and begin a process of healing.
All po's must stick together!
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