Pension Crisis Looming
The comment sections are alive with speculation of what a Constitutional Convention might wreak upon our pensions. Illinois Law provides for voters to call for a Convention every 20 years. Besides giving delegates the opportunity to wine, dine and gorge at taxpayers expense, they can also change existing provisions in the Constitution. FOP covers part of these worries in the latest news letters - you can read it here.
This is a real worry, and coincidence of coincidences, columnist George Will covers the recent bankruptcy of Vellejo, California as indicative of America's looming crisis:
This is a real worry, and coincidence of coincidences, columnist George Will covers the recent bankruptcy of Vellejo, California as indicative of America's looming crisis:
- Mayor Osby Davis, who has lived in this waterfront city across San Pablo Bay from San Francisco for 60 of his 62 years, says: "If you have a can that's leaking 2 ounces a minute and you put an ounce a minute in it, it's going to get empty." He is describing his city's coffers.
- Vallejo is an ominous portent for other cities, and some states, few of which are accumulating financial resources sufficient to fulfill pension promises they have made to employees.
We'd say that Chicago and Illinois are both prime candidates for pension shenanigans and any Constitutional Convention supported by the Chicago Machine and the Illinois Combine ought to be watched with a very wary eye.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
46 Comments:
The question is: What can we do to avoid it?
What are our respective collective bargaining units and unions doing about it?
Let's hear some answers and solutions, not just doom and gloom. I love here and work here, I have enough bad news every day.
Sharing a forwarded email...
I have to pass a urine test for my job, so I agreed 100 percent.
Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job--I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution
of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them? Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass, doing drugs, while I work. Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check!?
Of course adley and the criminals that run this shit state would like nothing better than to finish destroying our pension funds! It would be more to pass out in manilla envelopes to friends so they can build more mansions, buy more jets, and plainly steal more and more from the backs of working men and women!
We will lose our pension because we dont stick together.
The city's not even close to being bankrupt. They just choose to spend money irresponsibly. How bout this one SCC,"If you have a can leaking 2 cups a minute and you're only filling it with one cup a minute, why don't you just fix the damn leak!"
nice analogy by mayor. things are way worse in chicago. we have so many sucking on the welfare tit that we will never be fiscally responsible. just keep shoveling money into the firepit. just keep hitting up the working people so that unwed females can keep having baby after baby by multiple fathers and never have to work a day in their lives. the cta pension fund is ready to tank-- the city and state have already tanked. gm, ford, chrysler, ???? if obama gets in we are doomed.
I met a man named Bruno Behrend who was distributing a book called "Illinois Deserves Better: the Ironclad Case FOR an Illinois Constitutional Convention.
He alleges he and another man named John Bambenek wrote it.
He seemed rather evasive about the political implications of this issue and was rather politically remedial which makes me wonder who is his partner or who is putting them up.
He lives in Rosemont.
He has some association with some republican senators and representatives.
I have the book for anyone interested and can get more info, if needed.
I couldn't stop laughing when he tried telling me how he was interested in this because he believs in "more accountable government". I would have hit him had I not been in such the unusual circumstances that I was in while meeting him.
He's getting juice from someone while he games peoples' lives away.
I would support a provision allowing voters to recall elected officials for cause. Daley would be the first on the chopping block.
Of course, he would shed a few tears and say, "That's just silly. It's silly. Sllly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly. Silly."
I have made numerous posts about the pension fund and the way it is run. Not only has no one responded, but I even had one joker poke fun at one of my posts.
I will again post this fact.
107 million dollars in CDOs as of the end of the 2007. I do not have the pamphlet in front of me but the fund has an extensive exposure to real estate.
CDOs are commercialized debt obligations- derivatives.
In one of my old posts I also mentioned the fact that the pension fund has a couple of "advisors" who were dumped by other pension funds.
The pension board is wined and dined by these same advisors they are supposed to "watch".
As I write this - Lehman is going bankrupt- AIG may be next - WAMU may be next-What exposure does the fund have to these entities.???
Now I hope someone pokes fun at this post - but I also hope that most Officers realize that the pension fund is in real danger.
For the Big Bosses- exempts- you are also obviously going to bear the brunt of this foolishness. 125 thousand a year pension is useless if there is no money to pay it.
old retired guy
This reporter does a pretty good job explaining Illinois pensions and the con-con.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/06/can-a-constitut.html
You stupid mother fuckers care more about the bears, cubs, sox etc. than you do about your own pensions. The mayor is like Michael Corleon at the end of God Father right now tying up all lose ends.
who cares about the pension? we are getting tahoes,gps, in car cameras all to protect us. no one promised you a pension, oh they did, well forget about that now. get out there and be aggressive.
Repeal the so-called GOLD BRAID scam provision. Daley's inept political hacks must stop bleeding our pension fund dry. They get double the pension that hard working blue shirts without clout receive.
Unless proven otherwise, the shameless brass are unworthy of any respect, let alone enhanced pension benefits.
It's bad enough that while "active", these clouted suckholes draw bigger pay checks than the street coppers who "paid their dues" in the most corruptly managed city in the nation.
MAY B THE FOP SHOULD START CALLING IN FAVORS TO DROP RESIDENCY...
WHEN ALL THESE HACK WANT ENDORSEMENTS THEY LINE UP WITH THEIR GREASY HANDS OUT.
ITS TIME DONAHUE DID THE REACH AROUND AND LETS THOSE THIEVES KNOW ITS TIME TO DROP TO UR KNEES AND START THE HONEYMOON.
SORRY ABOUT THE REFERENCES RENTED SUM BAD PORN THIS WEEKEND.
This reporter does a pretty good job explaining Illinois pensions and the con-con.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/06/can-a-constitut.html
9/15/2008 06:43:00 AM
Good article. Well worth reading. Thanks for posting it.
The Illinois Municipal League is already laying the groundwork for screwing our pensions. They’re saying how they are poorly managed and can’t meet their liabilities. I like how they under fund the pensions and then complain they are under funded.
Right, but if they have a constitutional convention, can't we get that abominable "subject to the police powers" phrase out of the 2nd amendment, and thus end Shortshanks' rule on private citizens being able to defend themselves with guns?
I mean, after Heller, you'd think somehow federal laws would apply to states too. You know, like every other law on the books, except for our city, that's willing to spend millions of our money on defending an unconstitutional law that no one here supports (except criminals, they loved disarmed people!).
CDOs are commercialized debt obligations- derivatives.
In one of my old posts I also mentioned the fact that the pension fund has a couple of "advisors" who were dumped by other pension funds.
The pension board is wined and dined by these same advisors they are supposed to "watch".
As I write this - Lehman is going bankrupt- AIG may be next - WAMU may be next-What exposure does the fund have to these entities.???
Now I hope someone pokes fun at this post - but I also hope that most Officers realize that the pension fund is in real danger.
Hey Office, What advice do you have for all of us?
Besides becoming more informed, is there anything we can do?
As for the shithead who laughed, we've all worked with them haven't we.
Holy Convention This Batman!!!
They should focus of Tort reform.
They need to establish term limits and character requirements. Convicted felons should be prohibited from runnning for election.
Ethics reform that prohibit relatives getting government jobs or jobs with private companies doing business with government.
Political contributions reform...
Public Safety Officers Limited Liability Act. Exempt police officers from all kinds of ass kicking so long as they don't break bones.
Make it illegal to lie to a Chicago Police Officer (just like the feds do it)
All attorneys who are hired by defendants (criminals), should provide proof of revenue source. Any attorney who takes money that was obtain through criminal acts should be made illegal. Only clean money with a legitimate source can be accepted.
Pension Board elections are coming up soon. When the officers who are running for the pension board trustee spots come to your districts they should be hammered with questions regarding your pension. Make sure you are prepared with questions regarding your concerns. There is a pension board meeting every last Thursday of every month that very few officers attend, and that is sad. That room should be packed with officers.
Just a side note: If you do decide to go to a pension board meeting, make sure the date of the meeting hasn’t been changed because of a golf outing or baseball game that the trustee's will be attending. Don't laugh it's happening.
Bambenek info:
http://cluestick4bambi.blogspot.com/2008/06/right-wing-wacko-john-bambenek-tried-to.html
Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check!?
9/15/2008 12:44:00 AM
I'll give you one better: Along with this, tally up the money spent on welfare for the whole family, then subtract that from the ammount of anyone who wins the gettho lotto, oh, boot them out of section 8 as well!
Anonymous said...
nice analogy by mayor. things are way worse in chicago. we have so many sucking on the welfare tit that we will never be fiscally responsible. just keep shoveling money into the firepit. just keep hitting up the working people so that unwed females can keep having baby after baby by multiple fathers and never have to work a day in their lives. the cta pension fund is ready to tank-- the city and state have already tanked. gm, ford, chrysler, ???? if obama gets in we are doomed.
9/15/2008 01:57:00 AM
And all the illegals daley is bring in by the millions in shitcago! Free harlth care, free schools,free housing and a link card for free food! nice job mayor asshole you really fucked up this city, the blood of all the children murdered in your city is also on your hands for not hiring and depleteing the police dept. I am hoping and PRAYING the olympic idiots are not that dumb to come here under this corrupt regime!
Right now the city has a black hole around 500 million and are crying poor and are looking for ways to get money I would not be surprised by anything that the corrupt Daley / Obama michine may pull. Did you know that about 500 million a year if not more go into several TIFF DISTRICTS around the city. This money comes out of our property taxes and is filtered to these TIFFS. This money is usually funnelled to connected individuals who promise to revitalize certain ares. This has be going on for over 20 years and there is a pile of money sitting in these TIFFS. Only about 10% of this money has been used the rest collects interest and goes where????????? Hello Mayo and friends.
Here's an idea. Put the money earmarked for pensions in the pension fund! Politicians are using the money elswhere until the funds fall below minimum. This is the problem! Change that law and watch the funding explode. How much more should we give away?
Thats why I am retiring at 50 in 2 years with 25 years on. I will be into my second job when the pension get "restructured" be smart and start thinking about the future. Do not make the pension your only retirement option and get away from this city as soon as you can.
One solution would be for the union to demand that the city actually fund the pension instead of letting the city skip payments.
You ask what can we do to avoid our pension going Bye Bye. Well first don't vote for Daley or any other Aldercreature that supports the Daley, Stroger and Brother Bill for Guv!! Party, he is up for re-election before the OLYMPICS so work any way you can aganist them!!!!!
Your pension will be gone in a few years with no one contributing into any funds. Daley has to stop the little city contributions and use the money for his OLYMPICS if he wants the 2016 OLYMPICS!
As stated before all new hires will get their own 401K and those already collecting their pension, hope the market improves! His blue ribbon committee has orders to stop all future pensions except the elected officals pension!
By 2010 state law says all pension funds must be fully funded and with full contributions. Daley will never go for this. State is already bailing out Board of Ed, and what will happen to Fire and Police and the other unions. Bye Bye says Daley! Get your own.
For years city employees worked for less pay and benefits. Then the private sector CEO's raided their own companies and private industry lost their benefits and pensions! Now Daley says we have to follow private industry.
The elected officals pension is funded at roughly 92% while ours is at 47%, Fire 45% Board of ED 49%
Daley and his Aldercreatures have taken good care of themselfs. Now Daley takes the money for his legacy the 2016 OLYMPICS and screw everyone else. He has over a Billion dollars in banks from privatization of the Skyway and other city ventures.
When the IOC asked for a guarantee Daley gave a 500 million promise. Two weeks later Aldercreatures Burke and Carothers stated if they (The IOC) need another 500 million we will give it to them for the betterment of the city. As reported in the SunTimes, Thats 1 Billion dollars the City has promised for the OLYMPICS!
And I'll bet you the clean up of Michael Reese Hospital and surrounding area will go to a relative! At whatever cost!!
see all you idiots that agree with the merit promotions. Female a, now merit sgt a, waiting to be lt.a meritorious to then exempt. These politicians with there gold braid pensions should only receive a civil service pension from the rank they lawfully achieved. Special K should receive a patrol-mans pension because legally he is a civil service patrolman,
Commander Graeber nice man but civil service patrolman does not deserve a commanders pension.
Air port Carroll is a legit sergeant but a merit lt then commander to lt, he should only receive a sgts pension...
The mayor is like Michael Corleone at the end of GodFather right now tying up all lose ends.
9/15/2008 07:03:00 AM
You're Goddamned right. Perfect analogy.
Pat O'Connor showed their hand today. He suggests a 2-tier system in which new hires would go into a 401(k). He wouldn't say this if the Mayor wasn't behind it. The problem with this is funding. Who pays into the pension if the kids are in a 401(k)? The blood sucking criminals on Wall Street have destroyed the stock market, housing market, and yes, futures are the next bubble. Don't count on "investments" keeping it afloat. Vote NO on con-con, demand a funding solution that doesn'y cost us benefits. Realistically, expect to pay another percent or two for your pension in exchange for increased funding. In this climate, thats a deal as long as the constitutional gurantee stands. Finally, beware that Rev. Sen. Meeks' school funding bill proposes to tax your pension. Contact your Senator to register opposition.
Repeal the so-called GOLD BRAID scam provision. Daley's inept political hacks must stop bleeding our pension fund dry. They get double the pension that hard working blue shirts without clout receive.
Unless proven otherwise, the shameless brass are unworthy of any respect, let alone enhanced pension benefits.
It's bad enough that while "active", these clouted suckholes draw bigger pay checks than the street coppers who "paid their dues" in the most corruptly managed city in the nation.
--------------
Fire Dept doesn't have the Gold Braid stuff .... heard the CFD bosses were pissed when the fireman voted it down. At least they got some balls .... maybe its all the sleep they get on duty
Solutions as requested by the first poster: 1.) Lobby your elected officials to support pension protections. 2.) Get everyone you know to vote NO on the constitutional convention question in November. 3.) pay attention to pension bills. FOP website posts them all the time. Contact your legislators to voice your opinions. 4.) When FOP conducts surveys, list pension issues as your most pressing concern. Stop worrying about baseball hats, cargo pants, rifles, and squad car colors. Forgiving the city's 27 million dollar debt to our pension in exchange for changing the Max-out age to 29 from 32 years was a gigantic mistake. The city is going to use that as a propaganda tool. Reasonably, expect to pay a bit more to maintain your current pension.
Realistically, a 401(k) plan would only attract real scumbags to come on this job. The pension and medical are the last real benefits we have on this job. Any 20 something who took this job without those is either soft or corrupt. You get what you pay for.... It applies to us and the city.
The politicians won't change the pension as it is currently written because it would affect their pension as well!
End of Story!
As I stated in my earlier post, no one is really interested in the pension fund. I had one response and everyone else is blaming this person, the mayor, exempts, etc.
I wrote about the CDOs etc.
I do feel for the few serious officers out there but the majority are busy talking about carbines, suvs, politics, etc.
Have fun working for 20 something years and get a sliver of what you deserve. This also applies to all of you exempts that are reading this. It is an ill run fund.
Questions the board should answer.
1. How many CDOs,CMOs and other derivatives are in the Fund.??
2. How many of those awful financial stocks do we have?
3. Straight out real estate loans? how many? the value as of right now.??
4. Did they get in the commodities game too late? Did they take a hit when all of the commodities fell?
5. Compare the returns of the indexes with our financial teams, if they do not perform , get rid of them.
6. Finally, ask the people who are on the board now - how many trips have you had given to you > I knew someone who was on the board. They are wined and dined in all sorts of places with many trips , all on the house.
I do hope it all turns out ok as I am retired.
old retired guy
Fact is, the constitutional convention gives them an out. They can change the obligation to reflect ability to pay, go into court and say it is the will of the public,
It wouldn't be there for no reason. Bye Bye Pension, Hello Olympics.
Odds of Olympics 5/2
Odds of your Pension 30-1
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
What can you do? First and foremost, the Constitutional convention referendum must be defeated. Some of you think that a new constitution with a recall provision will stick it to pols who have crossed us. Think again. The same guys will still be in power no matter what.
That said, how do you help defeat the con-con? Persuade other voters using COMMUNITY ORGANIZING skills! When talking to people about this issue always seem reasonable and care about THEIR issues. Tailor your talk to whom you speak. If you're talking to 3 of your wife's liberal friends, bring up abortion. Explain that a con-con is far too risky for the right to choose, especially if McCain wins. Talking to people after church, tell them feminists will use con-con to expand abortion/infanticide in Illinois. Talking to NRA guys, explain libs could use a con-con to limit the 2nd Amendment in Illinois. Speaking to a gay person, tell them Right-wing fanatics will attempt to codify discrimination. You get the picture....
If they bring up our pension issue, be reasonable. Don't launch into an obscene tirade about anything or anyone. Calmly explain that its in the public's interest for Police to have decent pensions. Otherwise, only 21 year old gangbangers and drug dealers would want this job.
Bottom line, you have to make it about them, not you. These are proven Marxist tactics perfected by Saul Alinsky and practiced in Chicago for generations.
The lack of postings here shows how little guys care about this issue..We should be marching, storming city hall and Springfield...How much more are we willing to take before we grow some???
Don't you guys see, the more they dump into social issues and the less they pay us, they're just making the middle class shrink and shrink..As it is in 2013 we have no health care...
Police and fire are not like all these other jobs..We are the ones who run toward danger and save lives..We should not be treated like Streets and the others.
No doubt they could fill half this deficit just by cutting waste..Is the US attorney going to wait until this bastard bankrupts the city and destroys even more lives...The little prick is a multimillionaire with money hidden all over the place..Maybe he should give up a few year's salary since he made his millions being a "public servant."
The business community will have to shit a brick as the quality of new police decreases with each hit at our benefits. They came close this summer with so many touri$tS being fucked with by thugs along the lakefront and in the Loop. You get what you pay for. Fewer quality young people want to come on the job anymore, its sad.
HEY FROM DA MAYOR....
That's right Bitches, this is you're MAYOR...So you're crying about you little pissy pensions. What a bunch of douse bags, I'll take what I want when I want and you won't do a fricken thing about it..
Do you think I give a rats ass about your little Suzy in Catholic school or Tommy away in college. Hell, if I want it I'll grab the wheelchair out from under you're crippled old mother and you know what you'll do about it, NOTHING!!!
Remember that Biotch Santos? She thought she'd take my throne away, I got that biotch good. What about the Tribune?? They break the news on the Hired Truck scandal and next you know yuppies are ducking concrete over up north at that place you call Wrigley Field..Yea my Irish buddies made a little visit during an away stand and brought a few jackhammers with em.. I'm such a God that when the Tribune didn't back down I threatened to shut down the CHICAGO CUBS..Now which one of you pussies has the balls to do that? Not a one of you..Mark what his name, he's nothing more then a pimple on my ass.. Fitzgerald, oh please, he's more afraid of me then you..Ha ha ha...My daddy left me the microfilm of all the blackmail I need to keep this Daley's city for another hundred years...Now excuse me boys and girls, I have to go to church with family...Pussies...
The 1st poster asked what can we do to avoid it? i.e., the calling for a constitutional convention. SIMPLE! VOTE AGAINST IT! It will be on the ballet this Nov. VOTE NO! Tell everyone you know to vote NO!
The next call for a vote on this matter will be twenty years from now. This means that Con Con matters to EVERY copper on the job now.Do the math. Why does it matter? The pension board administers the pension LAWS that affect your current pension or your future pension. Our pensions are written in Il. law and must be administered accordingly to the law.
A new constitution could change everything that is on the books currently. Not just for the future but also for current pensioneers. The entire formula could be changed or even be thrown out completely allowing for dramatic pension cut to be made, the same as has caused so many horror stories in private industry.
The only short sighted issue that some copper could bring up is that maybe they would change our COLA to have the 3% yearly raise compounded rather than the simple one time formula now in place. Guess what? A new con con could also do away with it completely. COLA, none, nada, discontinued. Columnists have already questioned why Gov. employees get this perk. Because we signed on the job with it as part of our benefit package and we earned it, thats why!
This is terribly important to us. I'll let others argue against it for all the political rhetoric that is attached to it and the costs associated with holding one. Me? I'm only concerned about keeping mine and your future pension benefits intact and safe from this current police hating/belt tightening economy.
VOTE NO! TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO VOTE NO! That is how we can do something, by having a strong, unified voice at the polls. Thank you, Retired and enjoying every minute of it. I reccomend to everyone, get out as soon as you can. Don't make excuses or waste another precious moment of your short life thinking that that next 2% raise is going to be meaningfull.It's not. Vote NO to Con Con.
9/15/2008 10:39:00 PM
and don't forget "dumbass laski" who daley set-up by using laskis own friend! how about sorich the stupid punk who went to jail,screwed his family to help out king richie! How many more have saved daley? The bigger question is why would anyone save that POS?
I told you nobody cared about the pension.
All of you still on the job, have fun when you are my age and getting about 40 or 50 % of what you thought you were going to get. I am including you exempts.
old retired guy
The country is going into "Great Depression II". No joke and it's not a joking matter.
The pension crisis today will look like small potatoes in 2010. Deferred comp., pensions and 401ks are going to be worthless.
The crooks and idiots in power really screwed us over.
Talking to NRA guys, explain libs could use a con-con to limit the 2nd Amendment in Illinois.
-------------------------------
gun owners in illinois already know the state's RTKBA clause is toothless due to the "police power" qualifier.
I told you nobody cared about the pension.
All of you still on the job, have fun when you are my age and getting about 40 or 50 % of what you thought you were going to get. I am including you exempts.
old retired guy
9/16/2008 08:33:00 PM
**********
You'll be amazed too when an amendment to the state constitution is enacted next year that decreases the benefits of all current retirees, like yourself, by 50%. We are all in the same boat.
young asshole wannabe
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