Discipline for Rifle Deployment?
No sense of proportion if true:
- O/T But I have heard it from several sources. Anyone else hear about IPRA or OPS or whatever it's called this week wanting to give the officer who was involved in the shoot out with the carbine 30 days for failure to properly secure the weapon in the vehicle. Apparently the officer who RETURNED FIRE on the offender and took him out was riding already armed with the rifle. This officer saves two officers lives who had already taken fire from the offender and they want to slap him with 30 days over some bullshit!! Anyone else have info on the truth to this? This is why they changed the carbine General Order this month and added basically a "wolfpack clause" where if there are at least two 10-4 units and a Sgt. riding together on a "mission" then one officer out of the four can ride with the carbine in the car.
Hopefully, untrue about the 30 days. Morale is a mess already.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 1:29 AM
60 Comments:
I believe it. Link to thier web site, you can read all sustained punishments. I believe 1 p.o. takes five days for the common practive of having ur partner johnn hancock ur signature.... Where theres a will there is a way.
www.iprachicago.org
I am calling BS on this!
Nobody is this stupid in IAD/IPRA
say it aint so...i tought the officer is the one who determines where/ when the rifle gets deployed...
is anyone suprised--- if it is ipra investigating an allegation they are civilians and have never worked in a beat car --- some of you fools will never get it, if you are a worker it's not if but when... your boss will sell you down the river too save his own ass--- do nothing....
yeah, take out a rifle.
then go home 5 min. later than every one else because you can't find the guy w/ key to the rack.
WTF !
Per training you can ride with however the boss says you can ride with it. The trunk is to secure it when not needed.
I ish I could call bullshit but knoing this job who knows. And the bosses are complaining about activity being way low. They can shove it up their asses!!!!!!!! Their activity not the riffle, right shortshanks!
There is no such thing as morale on the Chicago Police Department. it is not authorized by General Order. It is not authorized by any Department directive.
If we needed morale, our exempt staff would order it into existence. They do not do so, hence, there is none.
My bosses know what is right. I trust them. They have my back. If I need morale they will tell me.
This story is true. IPRA wanted to do the copper for carrying the rifle unsecured. The supe had an emergency meeting with the bosses and the decision was to re-write the order so coppers could carry the rifle unsecured in certain situations.
All smoke and mirrors as usual!
Anyone carrying a carbine on the street is a damn fool!
I'm more worried about getting jammed up by this city and it's stupervisors stabbing me in the back, than worrying over the bad guys!
The sad fact is, it's not what's in front of me I'm worried about, it's whose behind me! Hell, more times than not, I don't want back up because I don't trust who is going to show up on my jobs!!!!
This City and this department simply does NOT have our backs!
This is exactly the reason why I refuse any of the silly training, and classes now offered!
Why learn anything if the goal of IPRA and the city is to fuck over the Officer! You better off doing nothing and still get paid to feed your family!
But, you're businessmen now, not police officers. You didn't get the memo?
---not a cop
Why can't Weis do something like vomit in public like Daley's brother did in D.C? At least we could have some comic relief from this insanity.
Keep your rifle. No thanks. If you want folks with rifles call in the national guard or those swat type guys.
Again, we will never learn to unite. I wont get rifle trained. I wont take out a taser. I rely on my 45 and 6 mags that I carry.
I wont do a damn thing for this city. Thank God the teachers are getting another 4% raise.
The reverends are demanding some sort of justice for the "victim" and shortshanks told J-Fled to find something to hang the copper with.
Now is the time for the Supe to step in and rectify.
Show us how you have our backs.
I have an idea. Where I used to work, we had a general order stating any other general order could be violated if you could provide a justified reason for doing so. Since this seems a bit to logical for Chicago, I'm sure it will never happen. However, it does give the opportunity for situations like this to be avoided. How about it "Bosses"?
There is a reason I never bothered getting the carbine... my pistol will keep ME safe...no way am I sticking my neck out for anybody else until we have a regime change...Don't get me wrong, I will still do my best to serve, I'm just not going to use any 'newly approved' weaponry until I see just how it is going to be used to jam me up...this appears to be a case in point. Same for the tazer.
IPRA and IAD are fighting constantly over whether cases should be sustained or not, and then over penalties on cases that should be sustained.
The large majority of the lawyers IPRA hired to clear up the backlog of old cases are the source of this problem. They are handing out maximum punishment on almost all cases, with very little regard as to contractual clauses for progressive punishment.
They are keeping themselves employed in this down economy by sustaining as many cases as possible, and by handing out maximum punishment, so as to ensure appeals are carried out by the accused, and they keep getting paychecks. Believe me, several people at IAD very embarassed at what IPRA is doing, people who will stick up for police in frivolous beefs.
This is already done.
A CR was issued by the shitheads at IPRA due to the rifle being in the passenger compartment.
The order is already re-written and the officers involved won't be taking time.
The downside? Only MSF children are allowed to carry the rifle inside the passenger compartment, NOT the majority of us on patrol.
Allegedly this is also being re-written, but you can bet you won't be seeing it anytime during the summer months.
The MSF order is already out.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I am calling BS on this!
Nobody is this stupid in IAD/IPRA
6/12/2010 01:55:00 AM
I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to make the above statement but then you look around at the bosses and shortshanks and then you understand. There everywhere.
Start a website when IPRA screws up,or get their idiotic decisions reversed or overturned, so the public can see how really srewed up they are!
And I've I known of IPRA investigators, drunk, high, hanging out with felons, molesting kids, or engaging in other acts that sworn officers get time or fired over. They're not part of CPD now-who investigates or disciplines them ?
can you imagine if he threatened to stick the rife up someone s ass? only a moron would say something like that! oppps sorry.
This makes perfect sense. The order was recently changed and did mention that. But It may have been too late for the punishment.
On the plus side, a lot of young go-getting coppers are finding out real quick the old dog coppers might be onto something. Don't stick your neck out and collect your paycheck.
Officer safety trumps General Order, EVERY TIME. Morale, however, goes further and further down the toilet.
If we are talking about the same incident I am almost 100 % sure ipra did intiate a "log" and the Commander of this unit personally took a ride down to ipra on the officers behalf. The commander knows people only stay in that unit for the 10hr days and he wants to avoid a mass expodus similar to the one when the unit was first started. You want an even better story of an officer getting screwed? After a po was in a shooting last year he had court the next day. He obviously didn't make it. This po who was probably stil decompressing from a dramatic event in his life and to top it all off he ends up taking a day
These kids in The MSF went through additional training specific to carrying the M4 rifle while patroling. The training was sanctioned by the bosses in the MSF, and department approved. This is a communication breakdown. The officer did everything correct and is a hero today because of his actions. If he takes one second of time over this it will be a clear example of him being thrown under a bus to appease a criminal minded public, and invertebrate bosses.
Maybe IPRA people have a quota they have to meet in order to work special employment. Maybe they have an asshole bi-polar supervisor who screams at them about numbers. This department has cancer and its all from the top.
The officers and sgt. will be fine because the commander of their unit is a stand up boss.
msf officers who ride with the weapon loaded were given a short class on how to do so.
If this is true then it just furthers the reasons we don't trust anyone. The guys saves his life and others and they look for a reaon to screw a good copper. I'm hoping it's not true and that the Supt. would not let the copper get jammed.
Any internal affairs function in this department, whether IAD/IPRA or whatever they want to call it in the future, should be conducted by retired non Chicago cops. Preferably with urban experience.
Guys who can smell BS complaints, yet don't have any institutional biases or hopes for moving up in the department.
Reduce the power of the clout and maybe some investigators trying to unnecessarily nail a cop in order to facilitate a merit promotion or three.
Retired Evanston or Oak Park cops would make good candidates. They get to work in diverse communities that have great neighborhoods and fukin' ghetto hoods. I've never encountered any Evanston cops, but did work with some Oak Park cops and was always impressed with them.
Let it be written, let it be done.
Anonymous said...
If we are talking about the same incident I am almost 100 % sure ipra did intiate a "log" and the Commander of this unit personally took a ride down to ipra on the officers behalf. The commander knows people only stay in that unit for the 10hr days and he wants to avoid a mass expodus similar to the one when the unit was first started. You want an even better story of an officer getting screwed? After a po was in a shooting last year he had court the next day. He obviously didn't make it. This po who was probably stil decompressing from a dramatic event in his life and to top it all off he ends up taking a day
6/12/2010 11:47:00 AM
Another sick story if true. I wouldn't doubt it happened because so many bosses are cut-throat and would do things to impress their bosses and hope to get a metit promo. Merit can make a man do things he normally would not do. Years ago I never would believe morale could be as low as it is now. Not only do we watch are backs for the shit heads, but now the bosses too.
Your are a tool plain and simple if you are riding around with a carbine strapped to your neck.
You are virtually useless in every situation other than a deadly force. You can't run after someone, you can't fight with someone, and you are again eliminated in any other situation. Oh yeah and why is anyone doing any kind of police work to involve having a rifle deployed.
5yr wonders still try to play SOS. Guess what its all over . You were hired to late. Police work is dead in Chicago. If you don't get that with yet another crazy discipline decision you are plain nuts
A rule is a rule. If people insist on deliberately violating a rule, what do you expect the people charged with punishing rule violators to do?
Retired Evanston or Oak Park cops would make good candidates. They get to work in diverse communities that have great neighborhoods and fukin' ghetto hoods. I've never encountered any Evanston cops, but did work with some Oak Park cops and was always impressed with them.
Let it be written, let it be done.
6/12/2010 02:43:00 PM
Says the retired Oak Park cop...
Gents, when you you guys wake up and smell the coffee? IPRA was brought in here because the Mayor, the reverends and certain other "political leaders" were convinced that we were executing people on the street in cold blood. Once they arrive here and start investigating these Police related shootings, they find out that these so called "reverends and other political leaders" as well as Da Mayor were wrong. But what is IPRA to do? They have to justify their existence and if they can't nail coppers for murdering people, what's the next best thing for them? Hammer coppers for insignificant bullshit, that's what. THAT'S why you see them trying to give coppers time for stuff like this. Did you ever see a boss step up at rollcall or a meeting and say something that everybody already knew? Why did he do that you probably ask yourself? The short answer is because he feels the need to do SOMETHING to say SOMETHING. Same principle applies to IPRA. They feel the need to do SOMETHING. Not saying it's right or that I agree with it because I don't. But it is what it is.
Anonymous said...
I am calling BS on this!
Nobody is this stupid in IAD/IPRA
6/12/2010 01:55:00 AM
WANNA' BET?
I known I am only a civilian but a secure rifle is a rifle with the safety on and pointed in a safe direction, thats it. Being in the trunk does you nor your partner any good.
Thanks for doing a thankless job guys and girls!
With the likes of Loevy & Loevy and the stupid juries out there one would have to be outright nuts to carry a semi-automatic military rifle on the street these days.
No fucking way. My most effective weapon for self defense is a V8 engine and a tank of gas.
Get handed a Federal Civil Rights complaint with your name on it as the accused and tell me about carrying a carbine. A ball point pen is as lethal a weapon as I will use regularly.
They are getting the police department they have been clamoring for and deserve.
Anonymous said...
But, you're businessmen now, not police officers. You didn't get the memo?
---not a cop
6/12/2010 08:15:00 AM
>>>>>>>>No, we're factory workers.
What was the penalty for the Harold washington bodyguard who destroyed a dashboard with his accidentally difired smg ??
Hey. remember when we were the "real Police"?
"A rule is a rule. If people insist on deliberately violating a rule, what do you expect the people charged with punishing rule violators to do?
6/12/2010 05:56:00 PM"
that depends upon the nature of the 'people charged with...'.
and the nature of the 'rule'.
To anonymous that thinks po's who carry carbines are tools, just because you are bitter does'nt mean every po has to have your view on life. maybe carbines are carried just to look out for each other as opposed to "police work". yes officer's that carry a carbine have limited roles, but those roles are crucial as we have learned ! I assure you the po's and sgt that made it home safe that night because of the carbine don't share your opinion !
Anonymous said...
But, you're businessmen now, not police officers. You didn't get the memo?
---not a cop
6/12/2010 08:15:00 AM
>>>>>>>>No, we're factory workers.
6/12/2010 09:59:00 PM
Oh honey, that makes me so sad that you feel that way. I remember when cops kicked ass, took names, all the kids respected the police and our neighborhood was safe as a result.
We're doomed.
---not a cop
To anonymous that thinks po's who carry carbines are tools, just because you are bitter does'nt mean every po has to have your view on life. maybe carbines are carried just to look out for each other as opposed to "police work". yes officer's that carry a carbine have limited roles, but those roles are crucial as we have learned ! I assure you the po's and sgt that made it home safe that night because of the carbine don't share your opinion !
I've been doing this job in the worst neighborhood since 1994. Not once have I ever felt the need to strap on a weapon needed to engage threats at 50 to 600 yards. You guys that ran out and purchased this $600 to $2,000.00 toy to play solider in Chicago need to either enlist in the Army or take a job as a contractor in Iraq. That M-4 is fun to shoot and accurate, but is 99.9% useless in general patrol. Shithead knows better than you when you can shoot him.
I have a heavy phone call,I can do whatever I want.
"yeah, take out a rifle.
then go home 5 min. later than every one else because you can't find the guy w/ key to the rack.
WTF !"
-----------------------------------
Ill take gaurenteed late 5 over a possible early eternity in the grave everyday. Fair trade.
"Keep your rifle. No thanks. If you want folks with rifles call in the national guard or those swat type guys."
---------------------------------
See above
"Again, we will never learn to unite. I wont get rifle trained. I wont take out a taser. I rely on my 45 and 6 mags that I carry. I wont do a damn thing for this city. Thank God the teachers are getting another 4% raise."
---------------------------------
When was the last time you shot (other than your yearly qualification) and can you hit outside of 15 yards? Not talking shit brother, just please answer yourself honestly. Please keep yourself safe.
"There is a reason I never bothered getting the carbine... my pistol will keep ME safe...no way am I sticking my neck out for anybody else until we have a regime change...Don't get me wrong, I will still do my best to serve, I'm just not going to use any 'newly approved' weaponry until I see just how it is going to be used to jam me up...this appears to be a case in point. Same for the tazer."
-----------------------------------
See above. Dont know about you but Im more worried about the escalating violence against the police (nationwide) than getting jammed up. Been jammed and sued, it stings. Never been shot, Those who have say it does more than sting.
"Oh yeah and why is anyone doing any kind of police work to involve having a rifle deployed."
-----------------------------------
Dont say you dont still go to shots fired calls, even if its only to back up fellow officers. You know you do. Also what if it comes looking for you? Thats been happening lately to us, hasnt it?
"With the likes of Loevy & Loevy and the stupid juries out there one would have to be outright nuts to carry a semi-automatic military rifle on the street these days."
-----------------------------------
I dont let the Revs dictate who I cant stop. I wouldnt let the yuppies or copwatch dictate that either. I wont let lawyers or juries decide what kind of weapon I can carry.
Be safe.
Anyone carrying a carbine on the street is a damn fool!
another idiot cop more worried about liability than safety. most guys ive seen with the rifles are pretty damn safe and better trained than the other non-rifle carrying morons on this job. maybe you should also stick to your revolver. get with the program moron, and the rest of the nation who have been carrying rifles for the past 2 decades. put your papers in already!!!!
I rely on my 45 and 6 mags that I carry.
yeah, thatll help you when that guy with the ak47 in the 3 rd flr window with bodyarmor on has half the district pinned down from half a block away. your another misinformed police officer in denial about what your inadequate weapon system will do against another. get some education before we end up at your funeral.
Oh yeah and why is anyone doing any kind of police work to involve having a rifle deployed.
because we get man with gun and shot fired jobs, oh and 10-1's when cops are getting shot at. Are you actually a cop you fucking joke????? i hope not.
Get handed a Federal Civil Rights complaint with your name on it as the accused and tell me about carrying a carbine. A ball point pen is as lethal a weapon as I will use regularly.
i have several now, still carry a rifle, you can thank me later when you get to go homw to your family because i showed up. This is one of the most eye opening threads ive ever seen, disappointed by the numbers of guys on this job more concerned about being in court or even prison than ending up in a body bag. Pathetic indeed.
Heard that a officer who got into a shooting in 25 got a number for carrying two different brands of ammo in his weapon. Trouble is that the two different brands of ammo were issued by the range. Can anybody confirm this?
"Heard that a officer who got into a shooting in 25 got a number for carrying two different brands of ammo in his weapon. Trouble is that the two different brands of ammo were issued by the range. Can anybody confirm this?"
Range guy says:
absolutely untrue
Anonymous said...
Per training you can ride with however the boss says you can ride with it. The trunk is to secure it when not needed.
I ish I could call bullshit but knoing this job who knows. And the bosses are complaining about activity being way low. They can shove it up their asses!!!!!!!! Their activity not the riffle, right shortshanks!
6/12/2010 05:28:00 AM
What?!?!
Anonymous said...
Your are a tool plain and simple if you are riding around with a carbine strapped to your neck.
You are virtually useless in every situation other than a deadly force. You can't run after someone, you can't fight with someone, and you are again eliminated in any other situation. Oh yeah and why is anyone doing any kind of police work to involve having a rifle deployed.
5yr wonders still try to play SOS. Guess what its all over . You were hired to late. Police work is dead in Chicago. If you don't get that with yet another crazy discipline decision you are plain nuts
6/12/2010 05:41:00 PM
Please stfu! Its because of those who sit on their hands (like you for instance) that these sh**heads are trying to take over..... Real Police are still doing the job AND using their heads!
"With the likes of Loevy & Loevy and the stupid juries out there one would have to be outright nuts to carry a semi-automatic military rifle on the street these days."
----------------------------
It's unlikely that shooting someone with a rifle is going to be any worse of a problem then shooting them with a sidearm. The same laws about use of deadly force apply.
The MSF Basic Carbine Course is 16 hours long and includes positional and baaricade shooting against a timer at distances of up to 100 meters. I think that this is a little better than a "short period of instruction".
You guys that ran out and purchased this $600 to $2,000.00 toy to play solider in Chicago need to either enlist in the Army or take a job as a contractor in Iraq. That M-4 is fun to shoot and accurate, but is 99.9% useless in general patrol.
---------------------------
Useless? I wonder if you would have the same opinion when an Offender carrying AK47 shoots at you. You are just a fucking DOG who wished you could carry one and play SOLDIER (not solider, IDIOT) but, you too damn fucking lazy to take the power test and go through the training.
To you MoFo's who thinks that AR15 is a toy, you're right, my own personal $2,000.00 (batteries not included) Carbine is a VERY POWERFUL TOY, with 30 .223 rounds per mag, and a lot accurate than your 9mm BB gun.
I would much rather carry an Springfield M1A Scout/Squad rifle.
Post a Comment
<< Home