Moron
Once again, someone who has no clue attempting to get officers killed:
- anyone hear about the idiot LT on midnights in 017???? domestic with a mad man wielding a knife, threatening officers; LT shows up yells at officers for overreacting for having their guns pointed at the guy... LT in front of guns to try and taze the guy... next day he goes around lecturing people in roll call and around the district for over reacting... POINTING YOUR GUN AT AN ARMED OFFENDER IN A CLOSED SPACE is over reacting??? where do they find these people?
We are reminded of the former commander in 014 who arrived on the scene of a man wielding a shotgun in an alley. She ordered officers to put away their pistols, telling them that she could tell the gun was fake and they were needlessly antagonizing the mentally distraught man. Of course, when someone finally convinced the subject to drop the gun, it turned out to be a fully loaded 12 gauge shotgun.
As stated here many times, there is a reason that no General Order exists dictating the circumstances when or where an officer is permitted to have their gun available for immediate use. Only the officer can make that determination based on what he or she sees, hears or senses. And anyone attempting to interfere with that process should shut the hell up.
As stated here many times, there is a reason that no General Order exists dictating the circumstances when or where an officer is permitted to have their gun available for immediate use. Only the officer can make that determination based on what he or she sees, hears or senses. And anyone attempting to interfere with that process should shut the hell up.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
71 Comments:
Back Sir... Don't make me use Verbal Judo!
It's time publicly name these NUMBSKULLS.
was this LT authorized to carry a tazer?? the first thing they tell you in the class is that THE TAZER IS NOT A SUBSTITUE FOR DEADLY FORCE...
I would never follow such an unlawful order. It is MY LIFE being threatned... I will use every means available to myself to protect me and my fellow officers.. Note to the Lt... do some research on edged weapon attacks and see how much damage they can do and how quickly an assailant can close distance with a knife... They are nothing to play with.. In many cases they can cause more damage than a firearm. See if you can retain your weapon when your tendons and ligaments are severed on your gun hand because you were told to put your weapon away... You have a useless slab of hanging meat and are dead. I of course was not present but would not relinquish my handgun in a knife fight... If you do and choose a taser, which I think is an excellent weapon and miss with the taser or it malfunctions, the asailant is closing the distance and you are reaching for your firearm.. You may be dead. My advice... Always use your firearm in ANY close quarters encounter with an offender armed with an edged weapon. Go home safe every night to your family.. Don't be brave, macho or stupid... It will get you hurt or killed. God bless all of you and stay safe!! Sgt Gogo
NOBODY can tell you whether it is necessary to have your weapon out! Better to have it out and not need it, than need it and have to get it out. Besides I am former HBT (the precursor to SWAT) and we were shown a video to emphasize how quickly a person with a knife can close the distance to attack you. TAKE OUT YOUR WEAPON! You can always put it up.
"She ordered officers to put away their pistols, telling them that she could tell the gun was fake and they were needlessly antagonizing the mentally distraught man."
----
Sounds like a bullshit episode of the "Chicago Code"
•anyone hear about the idiot LT on midnights in 017????
------
At least please give us the intials so we know who the softball is
This sounds like another sterling example of green as goose-shit, untested, unproven, resolutely incompetent and downright dangerous supervision that j-fled has seen fit to promote.
The federal model of big city policing... Chase away all senior command and whatever institutional knowledge they may have.
Create and foster an environment of second guessing, inertia, and anxiety. Pursue a policy of punishment over correction when even minor mistakes are made.
Destroy the organization from within by promoting incompetents.
Repeat as necessary until the collective will of the organization is broken... Then it can be re-made into whatever one desires it to be.
Un fucking real I tried and tried to get promoted
Im soooo glad Ive retired
Now if i could just get my 3% that they are denying me
Was that maher?
What a fool! Well tell that to the guys in 6 last month. guy w/knife tazed 2 times, shot 2 times, still fought back. then jumps from stretcher at hosp and runs, tazed again. Send this story to the LT. better yet, pub to blog as new thread.
My special rule- I always ask to see the hands of anyone I stop. If I don't see your hands then they will see the barrel of my gun. A lot of my coworkes make fun of me and say I over reach. Ok, that is fine. But to me that is Policing 101. Always look at the fucking hands. Be safe and watch out for each other.
Name the Lt.
He/she needs to be outted as the buffoon they are.
That's is if the story is fact.
A dark and stormy night in 018, circa 1971.
At Henrotin, getting a prisoner patched up when the street Deputy walks in, starts screaming at a pair of District heroes.
Seems they had a man with a knife in an alley. They called for the War Wagon, which caused the Deputy's arousal. Logic was, "they have tear gas."
Last I heard before the door slammed was, "Why the hell do you think you have a gun? If he don't drop the knife, you shoot the prick."
Ah, for the good old days. Dirty Harry, not bimbo superintendents on TV to influence the lads.
one in a line of many upstanding managerial doofus types. its the face of the new department get used to it.....
moron is an outdated medical term and correct in this case.
I prefer a Lt. who stays in his office and watches re-runs of the Golden Girls ....
And anyone attempting to interfere with that process should shut the hell up.
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM on Feb 25, 2011
And did anyone put their gun away? If so you are fools.
Two coppers in 020 last month, identical circumstances, blasted the shit out of looney mental who backed one of the POs into a corner. Wagon guy opened up and took him out.
This LT in 017 is a blithering idiot.
Did the Lt. walk into the house with his "Grande" Starbucks with the green stopper like he does in role call????
once again member always bitching about what they see well as a unit gather everyone one and complaint i do mean everyone within that unit voice ur concern in a letter to the mayor news media senators alderman and who ever is willing to listen pam zekman if need be stand up members and stop bitching do something about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a 36-year retiree- draw the gun whenever and wherever you think you might have to use it.
My philosophy was always simple- I'd rather have it in my hand and not need it than to need it and not have it in my hand.
You can always apologize for scaring someone- you can't if you're dead.
Thank God Im not on midnights!
One of the guys or gals on scene should have shot the guy then.
Years ago I attended several "Street Survival" seminars. In those demonstrations they showed that if you were closer than 25 ft to a person with a knife without your gun at the ready position, you were as good as stabbed.
Anytime a less lethal weapon is being deployed such as the taser or a bean bag shotgun it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to have someone with a deadly force weapon ready for use. That means an unholstered gun........
unless you are Chuck Norris.
You can buy stripes but you can't buy smarts.
Who wants to be the first to be Cozzified for using their sidearm??Those of you without heavy phone calls in crappy districts should have concern.
The shoe will drop eventually.
#1. KNOW WHAT you can do legally, you have the LEGAL & MORAL right to protect yourself & your partner.
#2. KNOW WHEN you can do it, armed offender etc...
#3. Be prepared to do it IMMEDIATELY !!!! There are no "pause" or "re-set" buttons in real life.... Hesitate & you lose..... YOUR LIFE!!
YOU are responsible for your safety.
PLEASE be careful out there. There is never a shortage of bad people bent on doing you harm...
A East Coast cop, Massad Ayoob, has proven in many court trials, as a nationally acknowledged expert witness, that an offender armed w/ a knife can run across a room and inflict a disabling or fatal wound(s) before a Officer can draw a holstered weapon.
Time & time again he has proven & demonstrated this in court in numerous " all he had was a knife, why did they shoot my baby " ( convicted felon, on parole / probation 9 out of 10 times) Google his website, the data is there.
NEVER, AND I MEAN NEVER LET A STUPID HACK PUT YOUR LIFE IN GRAVE DANGER BY GIVING A STUPID, AND I MEAN STUPID FUCKING ORDER LIKE Lt. ASSHAT DID!
Disobey a direct order, fuck you, I'll take my chances at the board & call Ayoob as MY expert witness...
STUPID, DANGEROUS, STUPID!
Keep your musket handy & your powder dry. See ya' at the barricades.
As a firearms instructor and Taser instructor, I can assure you that a Taser is NOT the weapon I'd have drawn from my "tool belt" first. Tasers are for active resisters and low level assailants,which a knife yelding nut job clearly IS NOT. This LT. needs retraining on the use of force model and should stay the hell away from real police work. I know how quickly a situation goes from bad to deadily first hand.
contrary to popular belief a knife or stab wound is more dangerous than a bullet, and a determined person with a knife can close the distance within 30 feet before you can get off a sucessful shot...BE CAREFUL with people brandishing a knife they are very dangerous...
(OT) With everything going on today how can coppers do stupid shit this what kind of copper would be so weak to make a complaint like this and not stand up and talk to Shields? is from Italian American police news updates? http://www.iapa-il.org/
From this you get this!
February 13, 2011
Mr. Michael K. Shields - Trustee
POLICEMEN'S ANNUITY AND BENEFIT FUND OF CHICAGO
221 North LaSalle Street
Suite 1626
Chicago, Illinois 60601-1203
Dear Mr. Shields,
I was recently informed by one of our members, Frank Balestri, of a comment you made that can be construed as an implicit derogatory statement against Italians. Frank Balestri notified me that during a discussion you had with him at the roll call on February 10, 2011 at 1:30 P.M. at Unit 051- Midway Airport, while 10 police officers and 2 sergeants were present, about the integ-rity of the election. Frank Balestri alleges that you had questioned how legiti-mate the election would be with a name like “Balestri” on the Election Commit-tee.
The Association, representing Frank Balestri, would like you to clarify what you meant by the comment. This Association has fought and continues to fight hard to protect and defend our members from anti-Italian policies,
comments and ignorance.
As the President of this Association I would like you to call me so we can address the allegation and discuss this matter further. I would also ask that you address the same roll call and apologize to Frank Balestri and his watch for the comment.
Sincerely,
Anthony Langone
President
Italian American Police Association of Illinois
Response from Shields!
Shields responds!
February 21, 2011
Anthony Langone
President
Italian American Police Association
6351 W. Montrose, Suite 210
Chicago, IL 60634
Dear President Langone,
The Shields Team prides itself on running a clean and honest campaign. We showcase the issues, choosing to disagree about political stances and actions while behaving professionally and standing behind our platform. Unfortunately, our competition has resorted to rumors, lies, gossip, mass emails using pseudonyms, and anonymous posts on blogs to spew their venom.
Lately, the rumors have increased exponentially and the untruths become more vicious. The incident at Midway Airport is the latest in a series of nasty and unprofessional behavior by the Citywide Team and their friends.
While at Midway Airport’s roll call, I recognized FOP Election Committee Officer Frank Balestri and asked how he was appointed to the Election Committee. His response was that he was asked. I then asked, “Who asked you?” Balestri’s response was, “I don’t recall.” I then asked, “Did Mark Donahue ask you to be on this committee?” Balestri said, “I don’t recall.” In response to these strangely vague answers, I said, “How can you not recall who asked you to be on the committee?” Balestri did not respond. Others in the roll call began questioning how secure their ballots will be. I responded to their concerns by saying, “With a guy like Balestri on the Election Committee, what’s there to worry about?” For Balestri to be offended at that statement, and ask the Italian American Police Association to formally reprimand me for insulting his heritage, is crossing a line that is unethical and just plain wrong.
Balestri, a friend of Greg Bella and Frank DiMaria, is making a Hail Mary attempt to discredit me with any officer who takes pride in their heritage, not just those of Italian lineage. Furthermore, IAPA has been manipulated and used as a conduit by certain members of the Citywide Team in a slanderous attempt to defame my character.
I saw FOP Election Committee Officer Balestri at the FOP’s noon meeting last week. At no time did he call this incident to my attention, nor did he talk to any member of my team that attended the meeting. I would have been happy to discuss my concerns about a close confidant of the Citywide Team being involved with the election committee, a position that should be free of bias. I would have also been proud to discuss the team I hand-picked to run for the offices of FOP, a group I consider to be some of the best and brightest officers I’ve ever met. This group includes several Italian-Americans, including Jim McCarthy, Dean Angelo, John Frano and Jim Muzopappa .
I also feel prior to IAPA’s posting of Frank Balestri’s twisted version of events on their website, both sides of the story should have been investigated. At the very least, I should have been contacted for my statement.
I take these charges against my character very seriously and am more than willing to meet with you to clarify the truth. Please let me know when you are available.
Sincerely,
Michael K. Shields
"Surviving Edged Weapons" I believe was the name of the video. Suggest to whomever to pour themselves a nice cup of shut the fuck up, sit back and enjoy the show. You the officer on scene, are first and foremost responsible for coming home at the end of your tour. The hell with anyone that threatens your life. God bless and keep you all.
Obviously this supervisor did not command any iota of respect of the troops.
If the troops had respect for this Lt. they would have complied with the Lts. request.
The Lt. needs to earn the respect of the troops or transfer to a ball and bat unit or retire.
The so called Disturbed Mentals are killing (Francis, Thordberg etc.) and are attempting to kill our own.
if this happened as stated..the lt is very very stupid.....did the po;s involved call street deputy,media,iad???if not. why not?
what can they do to you once you get media attention or file grievanes etc?? dump you from 017??
come on, if some jerk puts you in harms way by giving stupid order..don/t follow it. Then demand cr number and go public.
Has commander Staples already lost control of her district?
Always remember whatever it takes it is your job that you and your partner go home after a tour of duty. As old timers would say " dead people can not talk ".
Retired
once again member always bitching about what they see well as a unit gather everyone one and complaint i do mean everyone within that unit voice ur concern in a letter to the mayor news media senators alderman and who ever is willing to listen pam zekman if need be stand up members and stop bitching do something about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------
Ha Ha and Hoo Hoo! Grow a pair !
Please tell me the reason why the names of these individuals (the LT in 17; the former commander of 14, etc.) are not revealed by those who know their identity.
I mean, c'mon, let's name names, damn it! There's no liability for the displeasure or distress a person suffers for being humiliated and embarrassed for what they did. They did it! So let them feel some embarrassment and chagrin!!
And I'll tell you who else it (keeping the names confidential) annoys: Those of us who don't know who the hell you're talkin' about. Those of us who aren't in the circus anymore, but who still miss the clowns!
So, let's get some balls and reveal those names so we can laugh at the clowns!! Now's the time I'm gonna' enjoy it: When I'm retired! Thank you!!
When the former commander of 014 arrived and stated the shotgun was a fake, they should have told her to go over and take it away from the offender.
role call????
2/25/2011 06:52:00 AM
################
Will you people please learn to use the correct vernacular of words and phrases used in the CPD.
It is ROLL CALL not Role Call.
Roll Call = is the calling of the names of people from a list (roll) to determine the presence or absence of the listed people.
Roll calls are used in places such as classrooms, the military, prisons, law enforcement, camps, and Model United Nations.
Role Call = No definition.
The word Role is defined as =
1. acting part: an individual part in a play, movie, opera, or other performance
2. specific function: the usual or expected function of somebody or something, or the part somebody or something plays in an action or event
3. part played in social context: the part played by somebody in a given social context, with any characteristic or expected pattern of behavior that it entails
So for those of you that NEVER learned this at the Academy = we conduct a Roll Call in the CPD!
was it that goof tact. Lt.
I can't believe what goes on in the District, Fucked up Sgts and Lts. and W/C dicatating policy that is so far off it's pathetic. When it comes to my life or that of my fellow officers just telkl these incompetent FUcks to leave the scene. a person with a knife within 21 feet of you can get to you and stab you before you get your gun unholstered. Don't listen to these FuckHeads protect yourself.
Anyone who would listen to the numerous simpleton bosses on this job today are more stupid than they are. Listening to these political-hacks will get you killed.
I, for one, find it highly embarassing that I've worked for more female bosses with testicular fortitude within the last couple of years than male bosses. It's like being in Clinton's army again. WTF happened to this country, this job? Disgraceful.
GCG
Lt. Robert Delaney, 017.
E-mail me at cpdfop7@yahoo.com.
Let's do lunch and exchange "war stories".
To;
The Lt in question passed the use of force paradigm around the following night with the taser portions highlighted at rollcall. I just sat and shook my head. I thought back to my use of force training in the academy, listened to what this guy had to say, you can always learn from mistakes, if you live, and resolved that like before, I will continue to operate within the survival mode that has been hardwired within me over the past 16 years....
Does the dumb jagoff lt. in 17 realize that a man with a knife can close in on you from seven yards in one second and slash your jugular vein in another second?
1790R is the man!!!!...... 1733R
You can all give your half-ass opinions, but I'm waiting for an educated and experienced response from the WTA to tell me how to handle that type of situation.
For officer safety said...
•anyone hear about the idiot LT on midnights in 017????
------
At least please give us the intials so we know who the softball is
2/25/2011 01:26:00 AM
Uhm there aren't very many Lt's on midnights in 017.
Don't like to tell war stories, but I've had an experience that has lead me to taking out my weapon quite often. Traffic stop, 2 F-1's in front seats, M-1 in back. I was the guard officer. I had my gun drawn and ready. Not pointing at anyone, but clearly visable to the occupants. blah blah blah, everyone ends up out of the car and cuffed. Search of the car reveals a 38 revolver stuffed in the back seat. During the processing, the M-1 who was in the back admits that his plan was to fire at my partner and run. He figured that he would have been able to been out of sight by the time anyone could return shoot back. He saw that my gun was already drawn so he did think he could get away.
I've been in 014 for the past 8 years. When the hell did (I assume Maria) do that? Not saying I don't believe it.
Mister Miyagi from the Karate Kid always told his one and only pupil to "look eyes, always look eyes". Well, Mr. Miyagi was dead wrong on that one. Look at the hands, for they will be the things that are used to kill you.
Does he think you all work as security guards at the Ford City Mall? Asshat
Maybe he'll change his mind when something happens and his ass gets sued.
The game is afoot, Watson.
Off to Charing Cross Station to negotiate with Professor Moriarty.
I'm an Italian and you idiots who are"offended" about those statements are no better then those in the black community who are always bitchin and playing the race card- you embarrass me and my pisan's
Anthony Langone
President
Italian American Police Association of Illinois
Tony, hows that for addressing the issue? You really ought to make a few inquiries before leaping to the offensive on the behalf of anyone crying anti-Italian. You requested that Shields call you to discuss the matter further but I notice that you didn't bother to cal him before posting your inflammatory letter here on the blog. I'm glad shields responded to you in the same venue in which you impugned his character. I don't think you'd knowingly be part of a concerted effort to mudrake Shields' before the election. I believe you value your own reputation too much to be duped into being a hack character assassin. Be vary wary of being manipulated by desperate bottom feeders. It wouldn't be the first time someone fabricated an insult in order to drop the race, or in this case, ethnic card.
Immediately -- sound of car doors slamming, whine of trannys in reverse untangling the scene on the street, blue lights going off. "Squad, put us back up, give this a 19-P, commander on scene says it's a fake gun."
"Units on 14, units on citywide, take a slowdown at _____. 1400 giving us it's a nut with a toy gun."
Don't like to tell war stories, but I've had an experience that has lead me to taking out my weapon quite often. Traffic stop, 2 F-1's in front seats, M-1 in back. I was the guard officer. I had my gun drawn and ready. Not pointing at anyone, but clearly visable to the occupants. blah blah blah, everyone ends up out of the car and cuffed. Search of the car reveals a 38 revolver stuffed in the back seat. During the processing, the M-1 who was in the back admits that his plan was to fire at my partner and run. He figured that he would have been able to been out of sight by the time anyone could return shoot back. He saw that my gun was already drawn so he did think he could get away.
2/25/2011 06:31:00 PM
I do this all the time on walking up on just about any multi occupant vehicle. I don't think its uncommon. It puts them on the defensive right away when they see that gun and a cautious approach rather than just sauntering up to the vehicle. If the shitheads see you are aware and mean business they may think twice and if they don't then you are ready. Nothing wrong with taking your gun out. Let them complain.
As far as the man with the knife goes gun out and pointed without a doubt. A backup officer can use a taser but you better have the firearm already on target if the taser doesn't work. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.
You can all give your half-ass opinions, but I'm waiting for an educated and experienced response from the WTA to tell me how to handle that type of situation.
2/25/2011 05:12:00 PM
than you're waiting for a bus that has no wheels.
I just sat and shook my head. I thought back to my use of force training in the academy, listened to what this guy had to say, you can always learn from mistakes, if you live, and resolved that like before, I will continue to operate within the survival mode that has been hardwired within me over the past 16 years....
2/25/2011 04:28:00 PM
in other words, 'in one ear, out the other'?
I didn't think the Lt. was that clueless. Well, it's not the first time I've been wrong.
Same thing happened up in 24 about four or five years ago. Knife wielding wacko who had just stabbed his wife to death was coming at at sgt. and a P.O. who had responded to the call. The sgt. lit the guy up, ending the situation. End of case.
2/25/2011 09:00:00 AM
I've read the complaint, you have been sworn,my judgment is for the complainant being an idiot and sentence him to 1 year working in the psych unit! Wow! How could a copper and the president of that assoc be so sensitive! I am Irish and have been told many times about being a "mick" "Hillbilly" from Mount Greenwood. Also been told Irish are alcoholics OK I resemble that remark! While reading the complaint fuck Shields said absolutely nothing wrong to this guy! Talked to shields and he told me that the guy complaining was helped out with a pension issue that Mike went to bat for him!
It's not being macho or talking tough, but if I'm facing an offender with a knife, I'll pull my gun. I will not put it away until the knife is gone, I don't care what anyone says to me.
He can order all he wants, shout or stomp his feet, but the pistol stays on target until the knife is out of the picture, period!
A womans first instinct is to protect her own, no matter what. What was it my soldier daddy always said? Shoot first, ask questions later.
I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking the incident. However, if a lieutenant of police made a bad judgement such as this, (that could have easily caused an officer his /her life ) then actually went on to reprimand the troops the following roll call... Then maybe the captain or a higher rank with balls or has some some idea of what leadership is should pull this lt. to the side. After that, adress the troops , let them know that having their guns out was the right thing to do. Ya know, reassure them so that they DO NOT SECOND GUESS themselves . This is not the profession where we should be second guessing split second decisions.
Just a blue shirt...
Post a Comment
<< Home