Suburban Tickets Down
- Drivers in Oak Park are getting fewer tickets than they used to.
While that is good news for many, it can be a problem for the village, which is expected to go through another extremely tight budget next year.
The village collected about $434,000 less than expected in parking fines through the first six months of the year.
There are a few theories on why this is the case. At a finance committee meeting last month, Village President David Pope said tough economic times may be causing people to be more cautious when parking to avoid tickets.
The village's chief finance officer, Craig Lesner, suspects it has more to do with a decrease in enforcement.
We haven't heard any numbers coming out of City Hall lately about their parking enforcement numbers. We can't imagine Rahm wouldn't be using those as a club to beat the Department with if they were low. Hell, we can't imagine McJerseyShore/McStatmaster wouldn't be saving those numbers for another "Gotcha!" moment at the next CompStat meeting if he can.
Labels: suburban, we got nothing
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
58 Comments:
"[Oak Park] is expected to go through another extremely tight budget next year."
You can tell by the constant expensive work on the parks.
*WARNING*
Get the word out about department of revenue seeking out pick up trucks in the city via meter maids. I've had a truck for many years just discovering that you need a "free" residental sticker for trucks along with your $180 city sticker. Ticket costs $25 but there is no way to beat it because a pic is taken of your truck and front winshield. Go to aldermans office and pick one up and then they write your name down in a folder...why would you need a "free" pickup truck sticker?
Im surprised these idiots haven't figured out that we could pay our salaries in ticket revenue alone. I would gurantee if morale was good and we didn't have to work for incompetent hacks revenue generated would be through the roof. Especially if we knew it wouldn't be squandered on nonsense.
Aren't there a bunch of former CPD bosses running Oak Park PD?
ATTN: Officers.
Take note of all verbal and written demands for quotas on parking/traffic enforcement. Give the police brass enough rope. The really dumb suck-asses will invariably fuck up.
Don’t you just love how politicians turn policemen into taxmen ? The goal of law enforcement shouldn’t be revenue generation. Why don’t we just come right out with it and charge for services.
Sure, when citizens call 911 for help they’ll have to give a valid credit card number first or the call is disconnected. Then we’ll have a rate schedule – say $50 an hour to just yell at us. $100 an hour to actually investigate a crime – plus court.
Then your extra fees of course – 10% extra for a competent officer – otherwise they get a patronage goof. 10% for foreign languages – otherwise English only.
Heck, the politicians would love us under those circumstances – maybe even respect us ! You know putting you life on the line doesn’t earn you jack shit with the jag-offs' in City Hall. But generate some revenue that they can loot from the City Treasury and we’ll be golden.
This is a prime example of how much government is out of control. Parking violations, speeding tickets, vehicle codes, etc, etc. were never intended to be revenue generating machines, but apparently that is what they have become. How anyone could put parking violations into a projected budget and get away with it as a means to balance a budge is beyond me. That's like me getting a million dollar loan and saying I'll pay the bank back with the winnings from scratch off lottery tickets. Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose, but hopefully I win enough (find enough parking violators) to pay the loan back.
The original intent of the parking meter was to encourage turnover in the business district's so the BUSINESSES can generate revenue, not the GOVERNMENT.
P.S., for those who voted for Obama and hate businesses, the businesses generate taxes when they generate revenue.
Anonymous said...
Aren't there a bunch of former CPD bosses running Oak Park PD?
8/16/2011 12:39:00 AM
No. There was one former CPD Captain there but he was laid off.
If enforcement of laws via fines is designed to deter future violations, then a decrease in fines should be a sign of success...unless of course the laws were designed as revenue-generators, and not as a means to protect the pulic?
Did they ever consider that less parking fine revenue shows compliance with the laws? Isn't that what the libs want? Utopia?
ASSHATS--bitch when people park illegally, bitch when they don't.
Who writes parking tickets? Oh yeah, people like a young p.o. in my district on 3rd watch. He wrote about 100 parking tickets per day. All in the hopes of staying on 3rd watch. He only had two years on the job. But the good news is he still got dumped to 1st watch.
FYI:
Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose,...........
==LOSE= not winning
==LOOSE= too big
Not criticizing--just don't want you to flunk your next spelling bee:)
Traffic court should be held in the district were you work. Have visiting judges come in once a month. No more civic center and paying for parking, the amount of tickets issued would sky rocket.
The only revenue this city will get out of me is a big 19 brown. Screw these ass hats they created this mess I could give two shits. I hope this place burns to the ground.
Anonymous said...
Aren't there a bunch of former CPD bosses running Oak Park PD?
8/16/2011 12:39:00 AM
Dep Chief Leidy was laid off last year.
Don't think they filled his spot and it was eliminated from the budget.
"free" pickup truck sticker
Check your ward only certain wards allow Pick-up trucks to park legally with permit.
country club hills will vote next week to take away police chief crusty toes police car.
Maybe Mcpuppet will beg them to return to cpd , after all only the Best and brightest are meritorious promoted to sgt and lt.
He could assign them to assest forfieture , financial crimes or better yet Narcotics . They 're broke and need a job .
"Ticket Quotas" are still around!
They are called an Index now! There are hardly a roll call in this city where the word Index isn't mentioned to P.O.'s. especially in more affluent areas of the city!
As in, your numbers are down officer? What are you doing out there! Spoken by Watch Commanders and most Fiield Supervisors to P.O.'s in some fashion!
Pick up on this News media! Get out of bed with the Politicians for fucking once!
Da Pelon
That's why I always park my vehicles in my garage and have a mean dog in my yard ready to bite Ticket writers!
I dare the ticket writers!
Screw this city!
this is what I keep telling the w/c eveytime I get called into the office for an activity lecture--- all these illegal aliens and bust outs have gotten real good at parking legally as of late--- you are on the boot list now with 2 unpaid tickets--- when the boot program was started you needed 10 tickets to be placed on the list--- put it back to 10 and you will see plenty of business....
SCC, have you read story about the 17 year-old OPRF drug dealer? It's covered in detail on Wednesday Journal's site. Kid had automatic weapon, an apartment separate from his home address, two hispanic adult partners who's dad worked security at OPRF, lots of drugs and cash, and 150+ i-pod/i-phones. No mention of parents. Comments are interesting reading too.
Also, in RF a woman was assaulted and dragged into a car on a block of $1m+ houses last week before 8 pm. Fortunately she escaped after fighting him in car, but guy was a repeat violent offender who somehow was nonetheless released despite prior 30-year sentence and already one arrest while on parol. Go figure.
In Oak Park you could get a ticket for an expired meter within 5 minutes of expiration. Multiple street parking regulation signs are so confusing and often seemingly contradictory that it's easy to get ticketed for no apparent reason. Oak Park administration is so fine-crazed that residents are now vigilant in actively avoiding tickets and often avoiding downtown retail stores as a result. It costs more than $1/hour to park OP downtown. That's why ticket revenue is down.
OP Police should focus on muggers (black teen twosomes and threesomes engulfing a sole white victim at all hours to rob and beat). OP Police recently hired a young black man to "advocate" for the disenfranchised black youth who are questioned by police, despite significant municipal budget problems.
I can't imagine Chicago tickets being down. We have cops, meter maids, tow truck drivers, traffic control folks, the parking meter company employees, gangbangers, and all the local bottle gangs writing tickets every day. There should be plenty of revenue since you can't challange any of these tickets unless you go to a hearing. And if you go to a hearing and you look like you might have two dimes to rub together you will be forced to pay.
Cause there is no overnight parking
of trucks on any residential street.
How anyone could put parking violations into a projected budget and get away with it as a means to balance a budge is beyond me. That's like me getting a million dollar loan and saying I'll pay the bank back with the winnings from scratch off lottery tickets. Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose, but hopefully I win enough (find enough parking violators) to pay the loan back.
8/16/2011 03:13:00 AM
Well.....when you put it like that...
when I lived in 0811 a jagoff neighbor called on my pick up being parked on the street, 0811 came out and i saw them looking at my truck, they told me they had to write a ticket because the pain in the ass keeps calling, I showed them my pick up truck residential parking sticker, they did not even know that it existed, so no ticket, THEN one night about 1 AM I heard a back up alarm beeping, I looked out the window and it wa a tow truck getting ready to tow me, I got there before he could hook it and showed him the sticker he said he had to tow it because he had an tow order, but that the ward super was parked down the street and he went and brought him back, I showed the ward guy the sticker and he said he was unaware of them also (fuckin funny right) he told me he was sorry, I told him that he should make it a point that all the tow truck drivers look for those permits before they tow a p/u because even if you have one and get towed you have to 1. go to the pound. 2 pay for the tow. 3 go to court on the ticket. 4 prove that you had the sticker, 5 wait to get your money back
Check out where higher education's priorities are:
From the ABA law journal
Northwestern Law Grad Was Part of Dartmouth Program to Educate Chicago Gang Members
By Debra Cassens Weiss
EmailPrintReprints A 1960s-era Dartmouth program to educate Chicago gang members with an aptitude for public speaking produced seven graduates, including one who went on to Northwestern Law School.
A reporter writing for Chicago Magazine tracked down details of the program after learning about it from a legal aid lawyer who was surprised to find out that a few of his clients had attended Dartmouth. Fifteen men were admitted to the program and eight dropped out.
“The program was instigated with the hope, perhaps naive, that astonishing Horatio Alger stories would spring from Chicago’s ghetto,” the Chicago Magazine story says. “It was not, by most metrics, a roaring success. … Those who got degrees never made it to the pinnacle of their professions.”
The first men enrolled in the program in 1967 were Henry Jordan and Allan “Tiny” Evans, according to the story. They attended the school on scholarships provided by Dartmouth grad Ken Montgomery, a partner at Wilson & McIlvaine who was heir to the C. W. Post cereal fortune. Jordan had been a high-ranking member of the Vice Lords, and Evans was a member of a gang later absorbed by the Vice Lords.
Jordan graduated Dartmouth, and went on to graduate from Northwestern Law School, “but his heart was not in it,” the story says. He never passed the bar. He worked at some law firms, but regarded himself as a token black, according to a friend who spoke to Chicago Magazine. He also taught art in the Cabrini Green housing project and considered that effort more rewarding. He has since suffered two strokes.
Evans worked at an accounting firm, as a used car salesman, as a case manager in a mental health program, and in a program to help gang members. Later he got a master’s degree and taught in the Chicago Public Schools. “I don’t have a lot of money, but I am rich,” he told Chicago Magazine. Most of his grandchildren are in college or have plans to attend.
More cautious parking? Less enforcement? I wonder if the Obama-loving town of Oak Park can accept that, due to the moribund economy under My Favorite Marxist, people are just not shopping in their lovely progressive village. Because they have no money to spare on artisanal cheeses and Earth Shoes. Perhaps someone could explain it to them using puppets..........
"Why would you need a "free" pickup truck sticker?"
--8/16/2011 12:25:00 AM
Why would you need a "free" gun registration form?
Remember? Just a little tan card...
The following is a list of violations.
Commercial Trucks Operating with passenger plates, fire fighter memorial plates, or PV plates. They operate openly all over the city. No Enforcement. Large Pick Up Trucks, Open Beds, Operating the same way. The Secretary of State issues these plates, to vehicles that have no right to have them. The police do not enforce the statute. If they did the corporation council, or state attorney, would not be able to understand the statute, and present the case to the judge, who would dismiss the case as a petty infraction.
In fact forget the whole thing.
Oak Park probably made the mistake of putting up signage that explains very clearly where and when it's not OK to park, making it possible to obey and avoid a fine. That's not how the Gotcha Game is played!
--Law Abiding Citizen
@ 1239AM, the answer about former CPD bosses is no.
"Drivers in Oak Park are getting fewer tickets than they used to."
...but there are lots more armed robberies than there used to be. Guns, "sharp objects," beatings, people getting hurt.
That kind of thing.
"Oak Park police are warning residents about several armed robberies that may be part of a crime pattern that's developed in recent weeks.
"One robbery happened on July 20th in the 100 block of Washington Blvd at about 2:20 a.m. Another took place on July 10th in the 400 block of Wisconsin Ave at about 3 a.m.
"Police say both victims were injured, one severely.
"Two more armed robberies happened last Tuesday.
"One was in the overnight hours in the 1500 block of North Austin Blvd and the other was just before 6 p.m. in the first block of Lemoyne Pkwy.
"In both of those crimes, police say three men surrounded the victims and threatened them with guns and took their wallets.
"The attackers are described as African American men, between 5 ‘7 and 6’2, ages 19 to 25.
http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-oak-park-robberies-20110731,0,5953354.story
It's getting wild. They are commuting in now. A 14-year-old kid just got the s__t beat out of him by none other than --
"Rodrick Smith, 17, of the 1400 block of Morris Avenue, Berkeley; Lavert Horne, 17, of the 1500 block of Morris Avenue, Berkeley; James Burns, 19, of the 400 block of Frederick Avenue, Bellwood; and Devin Weaver, 19, of the 400 block of St. Moritz Drive, Glen Ellyn, were charged with robbery and battery."
Look at these four sluggers --
http://triblocal.com/oak-park-river-forest/2011/08/15/four-arrested-after-14-year-old-beaten-robbed/
I am hearing lots more Spanish in OP, too -- up dramatically just in the last couple of years. Call it "24 to 36 months." The pressure is inexorable -- everywhere.
""free" pickup truck sticker
"Check your ward only certain wards allow Pick-up trucks to park legally with permit."
--8/16/2011 08:04:00 AM
You know this has to be related to the lines of sh_tty trucks full of scrap metal and old mattresses parked, say, along Montrose west of Horner Park on Sundays...but how are you going to address this problem in a Sanctuary City after you invited these people in?
Send the meter maids through 016 at 4 AM, that's how...
By God, someone's going to pay...
In case you don't know Oak park is full of police hating liberals and is known countrywide as such. They were one of the only cities along with shitcago in the country to have a handgun ban. So they get what they deserve out there. You wanted to be so diverse and radical now deal with the consequences.
8/16/2011 12:25:00 AM
Why do you need a Permit for your Pickup or ...?
Because its a Muni Code thanks to your ward aldercreature.
9-64-170(a):
It shall be unlawful to park any:
Truck, Tractor, Semi-Trailer, Trailer, RV more than 22ft long, Motorhome, Bus, Taxi, or Livery vehicle on any Residential Street in the Following Wards:
1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,221,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,37,40,42,43,44,46,47,49 & 50.
Vehicles are Exempt from this restriction IF the vehicle bears a Vehicle Wheel Tax Sticker AND Truck/Van Permit.
Note: Pickup trucks and vans are exempted in the above mentioned wards IF the Permit is On the Vehicle.
NOTE: If your ward is not mentioned above: EG: 2,36,38,39,41,45,48
Then you are not lawfully allowed to park Any of the Above mentioned vehicle types in a Residential Area at all.
I see CPD write this all the time on the Over Night shifts...so what are you complaining about?
Cause there is no overnight parking
of trucks on any residential street.
8/16/2011 08:36:00 AM
Its actually a 24 hour ban, if you'd pay attention to the lack of a time in the wording of 9-64-170(a).
Small government works no meters or parking tickets... Big liberal government Fails always broke and stealing citizens money...
8/16/2011 01:05:00 PM
Can you post that ILCS code to my Live Journal?
That is Enforceable under 9/76/160 I believe
I really felt bad when the city first gave the parking meter deal to that connected firm in Transylvania. Citizens were really getting pissed at all the broken meters and began destroying them. Notice how fast the city helped the new meter Nazi's get the new parking kiosk installed. I thought we might have a little revolution starting here but it fizzled out. Damn it!
"In Oak Park...Multiple street parking regulation signs are so confusing and often seemingly contradictory that it's easy to get ticketed for no apparent reason."
--8/16/2011 08:29:00 AM
Yeah, I can't believe the plethora of stickers on the cars. "CLASS A-2 24 HOURS EXCEPT ALTERNATE TUESDAYS," etc.
SCC, have you read story about the 17 year-old OPRF drug dealer? It's covered in detail on Wednesday Journal's site. Kid had automatic weapon, an apartment separate from his home address, two hispanic adult partners who's dad worked security at OPRF, lots of drugs and cash, and 150+ i-pod/i-phones. No mention of parents. Comments are interesting reading too.
-----
WTF is OPRF and RF?????
In my tax payer district, I can't find a ticket to save my live. All the parkers are fished dry. And NO ONE dares run a red light! Good luck Mr. Budget.
What I want to know is how the city gets away with all the white shirts sitting around DOING NOTHING! I mean not a GODDAMN THING. The base white shirt makes $100,000 and they contibute not one red cent. Unreal...
Anonymous said...
SCC, have you read story about the 17 year-old OPRF drug dealer? It's covered in detail on Wednesday Journal's site. Kid had automatic weapon, an apartment separate from his home address, two hispanic adult partners who's dad worked security at OPRF, lots of drugs and cash, and 150+ i-pod/i-phones. No mention of parents. Comments are interesting reading too.
-----
WTF is OPRF and RF?????
8/16/2011 05:54:00 PM
OPRF, Oak Park River Forest (high school)
RF, River Forest (village)
DF, dumb fuck
Lawsuits are coming re: Red Light Cameras, and soon the City of Shitcago will again be paying out Millions, for not fully checking out thids Pig-in-a-Poke thoroughly, before implementing it.
Anonymous said...
country club hills will vote next week to take away police chief crusty toes police car.
Maybe Mcpuppet will beg them to return to cpd , after all only the Best and brightest are meritorious promoted to sgt and lt.
He could assign them to assest forfieture , financial crimes or better yet Narcotics . They 're broke and need a job .
8/16/2011 08:06:00 AM
Since they are Pay-to-Play Money-Funnels, they will probably be back. Who else could 2 unethical people like this go to work for? A Criminal can always go back to Prison and get their old job back.
Off Topic about Burbank Police.
To the Burbank cop who was attempting to stop traffic at the pedestrian involved traffic crash at 79th and Rutherford. You were the large PO Wearing the black leather vest cover with no Reflective Safety vest on per Us Dot Title 23 Part 634.2 of the CFR and no flash light in hand. Next time you decide to stand out in traffic and are yelling at me for pulling up slowly to where it appeared with your hand movements you were directing me to pull up to, but instead you decided to yell in your rude tone of voice to STOP STOP. Well no shit sherlock! Next time wear the requierd safetly vest and have a flash light in hand so motorist can see you. To date 45 Law Enforement Officers have been killed in traffic related incidents as per the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Website. And that person you were rudely yelling at in the car is a COP just like you. So now I see first hand why citizens have little respect for us. It is officers like you who should sit your ass in the station and take reports.
Read Us Title 23 part 634.2. It states Police Officers who are investigating crashes, closing lanes or directing traffic must wear safety vest during their duties, according to the Department of Transportation. Be glad I was not some Drunk who Did not see you!
Next accident scene you are at do your family a favor and make the effort to make yourself visible at night and wear the reflective safety vest.
This is ridiculous. First, one of the cardinal axioms of modern policing, as stated by Sir Robert Peel, is that the absence of activity is the best measure of police effectiveness. If an officer is doing his or her job, eventually the numbers are supposed to drop.
Further, the notion of writing cheap paper to raise revenue is blatantly corrupt. There's more to being a good cop that writing tickets. And an old fart lectured me, you don't write people for what you do yourself.
That said, a confession that as a young turk I wrote a lot of paper -- all good -- and my ratio of warnings to tickets was 2 to 1. It's good police work to sometimes let something slide in exchange for information on something more important but bean counters don't see it that way.
I also learned that if you cracked down on something over a period of a few days your numbers would drop in response.
Cash register policing simply sucks.
"SCC, have you read story about the 17 year-old OPRF drug dealer? It's covered in detail on Wednesday Journal's site. Kid had automatic weapon, an apartment separate from his home address, two hispanic adult partners who's dad worked security at OPRF, lots of drugs and cash, and 150+ i-pod/i-phones. No mention of parents. Comments are interesting reading too."
...and how many dazzled little girlfriends? Sounds like another Nushawn Williams come to town in a big cloud of owls__t and feathers.
It wasn't two weeks ago that I posted about how the neighborhood paper ran an article saying that they were thinking of making OPRF a "closed campus," i.e. no running around at lunchtime. Someone mentioned that "The school is five blocks from the biggest drug problem in the world."
150 iphones, huh? How many innocent people went to the hospital behind those?
Yay!
Kudos to the coppers -- ya sure hit the right door this time.
Like they say about Combat Roach Paste, they carry it back to the nest and it kills 'em all.
You guys got a nest. One of 'em, anyway. Good going.
Downstate, in the "benighted counties," you can get twenty years for Criminal Drug Conspiracy for less than this. Is it too much to hope for?
Please charge as an adult -- and NO BOND. He the one keep sayin' he a bada__, right? OK. Let's keep impressing everyone. Div. 10 for a couple of years -- then Menard.
Menard.
Menarrrrd.
"That a hellhole!"
Yeah...
"Also, in RF a woman was assaulted and dragged into a car on a block of $1m+ houses last week before 8 pm. Fortunately she escaped after fighting him in car, but guy was a repeat violent offender who somehow was nonetheless released despite prior 30-year sentence and already one arrest while on parol. Go figure."
--8/16/2011 08:22:00 AM
This s__t starting up again? Damn. There was one a few years ago, I think an armed sex offender hopped the fence into a RF backyard where the Ladies' Book Club was having a reading -- forced some women to disrobe, assaulted at least one.
Don't know the whole story, but upshot was that he was killed by a stalwart Oak Park detective a short time later and it was like someone was sending a message; the son-of-a-bitch went "organ donor" and it was like they were going for a world record; his eyeballs were on dry ice on their way to California in like 15 minutes, the liver going to Minnesota, the kidneys to Florida. Stuff flyin' all over. It was like he exploded by way of FedEx.
I'm surprised they didn't tack his hide to the station door for good measure.
Time once more for such drastic action...
Sorry I stopped any real enforcement when the elected started letting illegals break the law! "When politicians allow people to break the law there is no law only survival!" Why bother a taxpaying citizen,make them come to kangaroo court get huge fines when all the illegals that the elected jags allow in this sanctuary city get the money taxpayers pay in free haelth care-housing-schools-link-dream act (free college) etc...
Off Topic about Burbank Police.
To the Burbank cop who was attempting to stop traffic at the pedestrian involved traffic crash at 79th and Rutherford. You were the large PO Wearing the black leather vest cover with no Reflective Safety vest on per Us Dot Title 23 Part 634.2 of the CFR and no flash light in hand. Next time you decide to stand out in traffic and are yelling at me for pulling up slowly to where it appeared with your hand movements you were directing me to pull up to, but instead you decided to yell in your rude tone of voice to STOP STOP. Well no shit sherlock! Next time wear the requierd safetly vest and have a flash light in hand so motorist can see you. To date 45 Law Enforement Officers have been killed in traffic related incidents as per the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Website. And that person you were rudely yelling at in the car is a COP just like you. So now I see first hand why citizens have little respect for us. It is officers like you who should sit your ass in the station and take reports.
Read Us Title 23 part 634.2. It states Police Officers who are investigating crashes, closing lanes or directing traffic must wear safety vest during their duties, according to the Department of Transportation. Be glad I was not some Drunk who Did not see you!
Next accident scene you are at do your family a favor and make the effort to make yourself visible at night and wear the reflective safety vest.
8/16/2011 09:45:00 PM
------
Translation: I nearly hit you and it scared the hell out of me.
"OP Police should focus on muggers (black teen twosomes and threesomes engulfing a sole white victim at all hours to rob and beat). OP Police recently hired a young black man to "advocate" for the disenfranchised black youth who are questioned by police, despite significant municipal budget problems."
--8/16/2011 08:29:00 AM
I assume that Oak Park has also hired people of every conceivable race to "act as advocates" (whatever that means) for anyone being questioned by police?
If not, the lawsuits resulting from this racist policy won't help the so-called "budget problems."
Oh --
"Disenfranchised?" Really? Who took away their right to vote?
That word is tossed around so much today that most of the people who use it don't even know what it means.
"I disenfranchised real bad today. Gimme fitty cent."
@346pm
Those people out there love their coppers wayyy more than you get loved in your district. Id put money on it.
correction to the gump at 0829 on the 16th, oak park hired a caps guy not a social worker. dont be a clown. you ever see your caps people (civilians) talking to suspects goofball?
Correction: Oak Park Police hired a civilian, not a CAPS officer, to advocate for black minority youth questioned by police for crimes. Check Wednesday Journal article.
Read the article a long time ago. It says nothing about advocating for youth (let alone black youth questioned by the police). All it talked about was spreading the word about their programs and get people to give feedback at their beat meetings. Anyway CAPS has full time employees that are civilians, you should know that (if you're CPD...maybe youre not).
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