Less Lineups
We suppose it's a time-saver, but will it improve the dismal clearance rate?
- For more than a century, the lineup has been a vital tool for police detectives in solving crime.
The image of six people with somewhat similar features standing side by side as an eyewitness or crime victim peers at them from behind one-way glass has taken on iconic status, becoming a staple of police dramas on TV and in movies.
But after discovering that most other big-city departments use lineups far less frequently, Chicago police last month began a pilot program on the South Side to reduce their reliance on them. Officials said the traditional lineup is often too time-consuming to set up and can even be counterproductive.
Technology has also been a killer for lineups:
- Adding to the push to reduce reliance on lineups is the difficulty in finding stand-ins. Years ago the department could usually find all the "fillers" they needed for lineups from the detainees in its station lockups, according to Escalante. Many were waiting for hours for their criminal histories to be verified before their release on minor arrests, but technological advances have sped up that process to the point that stations have few people in custody, he said.
Consequently, Escalante said, detectives often have to find fillers by traveling to different lockups in the city — which can take hours. "That adds up in terms of overtime, and it keeps detectives away from investigating other cases," Escalante said.
Detectives became so desperate at one point that they started raiding the police academy to use recruits as fillers. But that soon came to a halt because it pulled them from their training, Escalante said.
Again, it appears to be another case of "doing more (lineups) with less (detectives).
The main question should be "what is this going to do to the clearance rate?"
The main question should be "what is this going to do to the clearance rate?"
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
57 Comments:
It's about time!!!!! For years we would get fucked by the the state attorney office to do line ups even after the witnesses would tell you they they knew the offender for years and grew up on the block with the offender, but felony review would CI the case until the line up was done
How many times would felony review make you do a line up even after the witnesses were locked into the grand jury and identified the offender in exhibits in the grand jury,
"What is this going to do to the clearnance rate?"
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
So can a detective please explain how an offender is gonna get identified passed the time of a show up??? Are we going with photo arrays?
save even more time and just have the victim go face-to-face with the new brand of felony review from Anita's doubt brigade. ASA's who will grill your already tired victim with a strong dose of "are you SURRRRE that's him?!!!"
The only way to avoid false convictions and those unfortunate early release tragedies?
Give them a state, city, federal or county job, a massage, your daughter, your wallet, a degree, and their own show on MSNBC.
So will they give the det cameras? Or will they have to use outdated photos from clear?
"That adds up in terms of overtime, and it keeps detectives away from investigating other cases," Escalante said."
Does anyone want to ask Company Koolaid Mixer Escalante how these same detectives - soon to be tasked with taking their own crime scene photos, dusting for prints, inventorying forensic evidence and taking buccal swabs - might be impacted regarding their ability to investigate other cases?
I guess he forget about this in-progress CPD Brainfart. The paring-down (and likely total elimination) of ETs and Forensics/Crime Lab personnel is in full swing. The "do more with less" mantra continues and for those unaware, detectives are being cross-trained in all of the aforementioned tasks.
Ya never know... those of you that land positions in the soon-to-be attainable Mounted Unit (I just barfed a bit in my mouth typing that) might find yourself galloping to HBT incidents or canvassing crime scenes on horseback.
I bet those horses'll be smart enough to not have shell casings get stuck in their shoes. You know what I'm sayin', Gary?
You have to ask yourself, just how important is the clearance rate to those at the very tippy top, the big wheels that set policy?
To the unpublished:
Escalante is Chief of Dicks, so obviously you aren't a detective and probably not a police officer.
"Plagiarism" is defined as "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own," which we haven't done as we cite the source in the embedded link (it's called fair use - look it up), so obviously, you're a failed student of "Reading for Asshats"
First of all, it's always Phone-ly (sic) Review that DEMANDS the show-up prior to approvals. Tell Anita that we're cutting out show-ups to save money.
She'll gladly have her (doubt brigade) people assist in saving money by not approving charges.**
As far as that unpublished 'Reading for Asshats' individual...
Stealing from a person and passing it on as your own is called plagiarism.
Stealing from many and passing it on as your own is called RESEARCH.
**Credit: As told to me by many ASA's in Felony Revue.
See, NOT plagiarism!
You're Welcome.
You would have tons of people for lineups if you eliminated the "I" Bond for everything BS.
So can a detective please explain how an offender is gonna get identified passed the time of a show up??? Are we going with photo arrays?
12/12/2013 12:37:00 AM
Not before you explain the difference between "passed" and "past."
You must be the star patrolmen of the sgt. who knows everything and will write up detectives for not wearing a vest.
No sarge. Your patrolmen don't need any training. They're fine.
Maybe this is a ploy they plan to use to get Vanecko off.
I can hear it now. "Well, your honor, we know the line-up is very questionable, but Chicago no longer even REQUIRES line-ups in their cases."
Having to do a lineup with a known, named offender was just the ASA being a JO.
What killed lineup was the "get those people out of my lock-up as fast as possible" mentality of the W/Cs.
The photo lineup was always quicker and easier.
Line ups are a tool but became a must have element for the ASA. Many times they aren't needed anyway, but on occasion they are if we want to avoid mistakes. This administration is more interested in licking the boots of the politicians than they are in quality policing. They are decimating our department to the point of disaster. Eliminate line ups but tie the Dets up with processing the scenes. Really? If you thought the clearance rate was low, wait until the evidence the dets collect is thrown out. Training? Chain of custody? Cross contamination?? The list is long and growing. BUT! the admin don't want prosecution, they want CCX. Close the investigation administratively- now that's right up their alley. No good evidence, no eye witness and no prosecution? No problem. The ASA declined to proceed but it's a clear and it's off the books... But the bad guy stays in action. If politicians or their families become the targets of some violent criminals, maybe we would get our department back. Maybe?
92 Sgts and 43 Lts this week
Escalante is a good man.
Can't find bad guys (clearance rate), can't find good guys (fillers). This stuff writes itself
Ask the FOP to have Donahue chime in. Oh that's right he gets a Detectives pension but never spent a minute in an Area.
"reading for asshats"
I like it! I think the "for dummies" people might accuse you of copyright infringement or something like that, much like "McDowell's" in Coming to America
Another stupid idea by CPD LEadership. It will fail, as the CPD on the whole, is.
""Consequently, Escalante said, detectives often have to find fillers by traveling to different lockups in the city — which can take hours. "That adds up in terms of overtime, and it keeps detectives away from investigating other cases,"""
Traveling to different lockups -- come on... the area calls, whines about no manpower, says please to the DSS and the district delivers them. Not to mention if you have "desk officer" access on clear, you can look at the mugshot without leaving the comfort of the area. Was Escalante ever a dick, or use the clear system? Jeez...
How can it effect the clearance rate when the clearance rate is under 30%?.........obviously these "detectives" aren't doing much investigation, just seems like their all milking it to me, just my observation.....
Who in the hell uses line-ups any more? How about a damn photo array?
Hey Escalante it has been my experience that line ups are done with somebody in custody. Why would a dick be investigating any other cases while doing a processing?
"reading for asshats"
I like it! I think the "for dummies" people might accuse you of copyright infringement or something like that, much like "McDowell's" in Coming to America
12/12/2013 02:00:00 PM
That other thing you missed is called "satire" and is completely protected by the First Amendment
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's about time!!!!! For years we would get fucked by the the state attorney office to do line ups even after the witnesses would tell you they they knew the offender for years and grew up on the block with the offender, but felony review would CI the case until the line up was done
12/12/2013 12:25:00 AM
--
... no that's never been true
Another stupid idea by CPD LEadership. It will fail, as the CPD on the whole, is.
12/12/2013 02:41:00 PM
Why is it a stupid idea? The state would always require a physical after a photo array was done. Now we omit the physical. It was tainted anyhow if the witness sees that the only common guy is the suspect - this is Salemme's baby - and its a good idea. Most dept's do not do the two lineups. And we can still do the physical if we so choose. We have to do some sort of lineup - but now its just the photo array. Personally, I prefer the physical lineup, ad I don't think I'll have too much of a problem continuing that.
The state (or the Dept) always had the rule: when offender in custody - have to do a physical. No more.
Obviously many have did not listen to what Escalante actually said.
What he said was that the practice of the ASAs insisting on a physical line up for each and every case is not productive and can waste a lot of time.
What is being eliminated are physical line ups after a show up, photo array and/or the victim knows the offender.
Physical line ups are not being eliminated in all other cases. If the above three qualifiers have not been met the a Physical line up will of coarse be conducted.
It makes no sense to have to spend the time needed to conduct a physical line up if the offender has already been identified by a show up, photo array and/or the victim knows the offender.
The detectives have been arguing this point for many years and the States Attorney's Office just refused to agree.
That is until several of the Area Commanders and Escalante told them that it will no longer be a department policy and they will have to live with it.
This was a long time coming and should have been done years ago.
This is all about running this Department on the cheap and into the ground.
Remember the Detective Mantra, "We will solve no crime until there is overtime."
The public has been conditioned over the years to expect less from the CPD. They no longer expect up to solve their car theft, their burglary, even their assault or rape. Only the few heater cases, like the shooting of innocent victims, not even the every night gang shootings are expected to be solved.
Even then how often do you hear the media talking heads say, “Police have no one in custody.” They never say, “Police do not have enough man power to do the job anymore and their skills are eroding “
>>>Anonymous said...
Hey Escalante it has been my experience that line ups are done with somebody in custody. Why would a dick be investigating any other cases while doing a processing?
12/12/2013 04:30:00 PM<<<
Ehhh...
Multiple clearances....
Clearing crime patterns....
Connecting the dots...
It appears that Gerry goes back and forth to NYC like we go back and forth to work.
Gerry ! Do you go to NYC for dinner everyday ?
Do people still go to jail?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Do people still go to jail?
12/12/2013 08:37:00 PM
Not if Rahm and Zalewski have anything to say about it.
From Capitol Fax, but available on most news outlets:
"Since the session ended a month ago, Zalewski has worked through opponents’ concerns and developed this package of bills to take head on complaints that the mandatory minimum sentences approach would not address broader problems in Illinois’ penal system. The new bills would:
* Clarify that a factor for the charge of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon is if the person charged committed a crime as a juvenile that would draw a forcible felony charge if it had been committed as an adult, rather than any felony
* Increase the threshold for being charged with retail theft under state law from $300 to $500, with full repayment required to the merchant
* Increase the threshold for enhanced penalties from being charged with theft from $500 to $1,000
* Expand the possible use of electronic monitoring devices when suspects are released on bail or their own recognizance
* Require defendants to be released on their own recognizance when charged with possessing less than 1 gram of heroin or cocaine, or less than 10 grams of marijuana
“I’m still committed to seeing our state put the worst of the worst behind bars when they intend to commit serious crimes with guns,” Zalewski said. “But I also recognize we have to get smarter on crime, not just tougher. I’m hopeful these changes will spur a good discussion about how we can ease the burden on our swamped prison system..."
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's about time!!!!! For years we would get fucked by the the state attorney office to do line ups even after the witnesses would tell you they they knew the offender for years and grew up on the block with the offender, but felony review would CI the case until the line up was done
12/12/2013 12:25:00 AM
--
... no that's never been true
12/12/2013 07:00:00 PM
You obviously don't work for CPD, because it certainly is true.
Traveling to different lockups -- come on... the area calls, whines about no manpower, says please to the DSS and the district delivers them. Not to mention if you have "desk officer" access on clear, you can look at the mugshot without leaving the comfort of the area. Was Escalante ever a dick, or use the clear system? Jeez...
12/12/2013 02:52:00 PM
My partner and I, and many of my fellow detectives (we helped each other out) traveled to the lock-ups bringing back fillers, sometimes three fitting snugly in the back seat. This is what we were required to do if someone was in custody. If no one was, we did photo arrays. If someone was identified, we went to look for him (her). Getting the person in custody on the same day as being identified did not often happen. So, time was moving on, and we had to let the 'unwilling to wait any longer' witness go. When we would get the subject in custody, we would call the witness and arrange a time for the line-up, within the allotted time frame. Witnesses are notorious for never showing up on time, or at all...no one to babysit, car broke down, got to pick up the spouse, significant other, etc. We had to go out and hunt for some of them too. In the meantime, hoping they would show on their own, we checked around for fillers to see what we had. When we finally had the witness in the area, we would re-contact the districts for the fillers and then find out some were released on bond or sent to court because we could not go past the scheduled court time. So, back to square one. Now the witness would be getting pissed off that it was taking so long. We would go out, get the fillers, and conduct the line-up. If a positive ID was made, we called the ET for photos and the ASA to take statements. Some of the ASA's, not all mind you, took their sweet time getting to the area. And then the witnesses got even more pissed off. I think we spent more money on feeding witnesses than feeding our own families because they always came hungry, and you never let them go out and get their own food because they would not come back for hours, or at all. The ASA would then show up, and hours later, the statements and complaints, 101's, and such would finally be done. And now getting to the person who said 'we solve no crime before overtime'... don't make comments unless you have been through it. I would rather have a root canal than stay overtime. That is when I whine. But anyone who assists the dicks in an investigation is usually called to court too, and there are many volunteers who want the overtime and don't mind bringing in the fillers (much appreciated by the way and thank you). I am so happy I do not have to do any of this shit anymore and life is much less complicated now. Retired Det.
Sounds like the line-ups are demanded by the ASAs to get out of work. God knows McNumbnuts wants the overtime money for VRI not for solving burglaries or anything but heater cases.
But here is an idea; maybe some genius is working on it right now. Instead of a photo line-up with static mugshots, how about an AVITAR video line-up?
The victim would come in and view a large computer screen with the Detective. On the screen are five or six suspects, one is real and the others are shills.
All are in front of similar backgrounds, and the Detective can command each to act. The commands would be standard for all; turn right or left or around, lift your chin, show your tattoos. Some common phrases might be said by all subjects, "Give me you money." or "Hands up."
There would have to be a large collection and have to be constantly updated.
They'll never do it. It makes too much sense and costs money.
>>>Anonymous said...
It appears that Gerry goes back and forth to NYC like we go back and forth to work.
Gerry ! Do you go to NYC for dinner everyday ?
12/12/2013 08:15:00 PM<<<
OKay SSSSSurprise Garry!!!
No NYPD Brass want to be seen with you, and will poison your rep with anyone who may help pick the next Superintendent as they don't want the competition.
You are hated everywhere you have been and thanks to SSC anywhere you go your rep will proceed you.
Time to take those pensions and that pile of money, if you don't have to many X's eating it up, find a beach down south where they might not know you after a name change and some plastic surgery. Start watching sunrises or sunsets with an everlasting flow of Budweiser and take pot-shots at seagulls.
So can a detective please explain how an offender is gonna get identified passed the time of a show up??? Are we going with photo arrays?
12/12/2013 12:37:00 AM
Not before you explain the difference between "passed" and "past."
You must be the star patrolmen of the sgt. who knows everything and will write up detectives for not wearing a vest.
No sarge. Your patrolmen don't need any training. They're fine.
12/12/2013 08:48:00 AM
You are a petty person.
Clearance rates are in the toilet, ASA's will only take on cases they have a 100% chance of winning. Political appointments have decimated this department and our so-called justice system.
Complete failures continue to be rewarded with merit promotions or political positions, what a joke.
Anonymous said...So can a detective please explain.....12/12/2013 12:37:00 AM
Not before you explain the difference between "passed" and "past."You must be the star patrolmen of the sgt. who knows everything and will write up detectives for not wearing a vest. No sarge. Your patrolmen don't need any training. They're fine.12/12/2013 08:48:00 AM
I make a simple mistake in a question/comment I made quickly at night and in bed and this jagoff comes at me. Hey, I don't even know what you're trying to say in your comment but fuck off and have a nice day. SCC, we got a rule #7 violator here.
You don't have to do line ups if the victim knows the offender. Try articulating to the ASA about the relationship. Never had a problem with them if I could explain why I didn't do one.
Photo arrays only work so well. Had a victim tell the guy in the photo was the offender but hair was different no braids. Photo was a year old, Hair styles change. Brought dude in, guess what? same hair style as the photo. Now what? You need the physical ID
Districts who are "too busy" to transport. I listen to your radio zone there's nothing happening.
Before you tell me to pick them up myself... I have. Problem is you can't get 3-4 guys in a fusion
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's about time!!!!! For years we would get fucked by the the state attorney office to do line ups even after the witnesses would tell you they they knew the offender for years and grew up on the block with the offender, but felony review would CI the case until the line up was done
12/12/2013 12:25:00 AM
--
... no that's never been true
12/12/2013 07:00:00 PM
You obviously don't work for CPD, because it certainly is true.
---
Um ... no. If the victim has known the offender for years, and lives on the same block, I have never had to do a physical lineup. State would require you show a photo to the victim and have him sign it maybe .... but no lineup.
Ya, if the victim just knows the offender by some nickname and that he always wears a red jacket, then, ya, you're going to have to do a lineup.
And I've been a detective for well over a decade, and that's not once happened to me personally.
Maybe you should learn how to clearly express yourself to the state instead of muttering and stammering.
The real problem here is the cook county states attorney, Anita Alvarez. More political then practical. But, she knows that the democratic party must keep control of this office in order to protect those that they want to protect.
"Det.s picking up fillers at districts for lineups" .......hahahahahahahaha........ More like " I'm Det. Blah blah from area central and I need someone for a lineup , you guys got anyone? " and the DSS asks " we'll let me look in the que, what are you looking for ?" ...."we'll, um, a male black or dark Hispanic, and could you get him here within the hour?"...... " hmmmm, we're down 4 beat cars cause of manpower shortage, let's see, I'll get him to you but can you guys bring him back since we're about 15 miles away? And we're really short people and it's getting busy tonight".........." Uhhh, well, I'm by myself self and I got no one here, umm, yea, yea sure, no problem?".......
Meanwhile 4 hours later, the pax rings and it's another Det. Blah blah from area central telling you WE can come get OUR prisoner, and when you ask for the requesting Det. You get told " him we'll, uh, he's gone, he just asked me to call for him".......
Detectives picking up their own fillers for lineups, yea right................
"...Some common phrases might be said by all subjects, "Give me you money." or "Hands up."
Or more likely, "You know what time it is", or "break yourself"
Does anybody know how the Felony Review System works? If the ASA says line up or CI, then it's line up or no charges. There is no over ride on a CI. All the brains in the big smart shop on 35th can posture all they want, but if the SAO doesn't agree it's show's over.
>>>"...Some common phrases might be said by all subjects, "Give me you money." or "Hands up."
Or more likely, "You know what time it is", or "break yourself"
12/13/2013 03:00<<<
DID I SAY THAT??? Police in Los Angeles had good luck with a robbery suspect who just couldn't control himself during a lineup. When detectives asked each man in the lineup to repeat the words: 'Give me all your money or I'll shoot', the man shouted, 'that's not what I said!'
Detectives picking up their own fillers for lineups, yea right.
-------------------------------
The job did not start when you came on it. You are probably unaware of a time before computers and how things were done. Keep hiding and bitching house mouse.
Anonymous said...
"Det.s picking up fillers at districts for lineups" .......hahahahahahahaha 12/13/2013 02:19:00 PM
Oh yes, yes we did. Been there done that many times. Go ahead and laugh yourself into a coma while you sit your lazy ass self in your squad drinking Starbucks, picking your nose, and checking your lotto tickets hoping you can get off this job and do even less than you do now, if that is possible, since you are probably playing dead now. As to the line-ups, if a victim or witness has known the offender for years only as, say, 'Pookie' or 'Big Money', etc., even if they lived on the same block and grew up together, the ASA would say, "Well, there are too many Pookies or Big Money's, so we need a line-up." At least that has been my experience for offenders with a well worn out nickname. If these assholes could have picked an original nickname it would have been easier, but still a line-up would be required if only a nickname was known. The ASA's only want winner cases, so the victim/witness better know the offender's shoe size too. Oh, and one of my favorites and a bit off topic, is requesting an override for charges when you and the ASA don't agree. Yea, right. The first time it's up in court, the case gets tossed cuz the ASA's office is pissed since we went over their heads. So, what's the point of an override?
>>>Districts who are "too busy" to transport. I listen to your radio zone there's nothing happening.
Before you tell me to pick them up myself... I have. Problem is you can't get 3-4 guys in a fusion
12/13/2013 09:41:00 AM<<<
fusion confusion...
You should have seen what we could get in a VW Beetle in my college days and cruise all weekend long on $2 worth of regular.
But remember if you will when we had 13,000 cops, 4 sectors per district and a wagon assigned to each sector.
How many cops do we have now Mr. McCarthy? Mr. Shields?
You should have seen what we could get in a VW Beetle in my college days and cruise all weekend long on $2 worth of regular.
But remember if you will when we had 13,000 cops, 4 sectors per district and a wagon assigned to each sector.
How many cops do we have now Mr. McCarthy? Mr. Shields?
12/14/2013 01:16:00 AM
Around 12,400 according to CLEAR and the pension board, but you will think it is a conspiracy
Around 12,400 according to CLEAR and the pension board, but you will think it is a conspiracy
12/14/2013 07:58:00 PM
Where are they all, then? They certainly aren't out in the Districts.
I wish I was Salemme's baby.
He is such a cutie.
Now, kees me you fool!!!!
I always thought Starbucks coffee was evil, but does it make you pick your nose?
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