Saturday, February 22, 2014

Arizona Pension Ruling

The Crain's article says don't read too much into it, but there are some telling signs there:
  • In a case scrutinized for potential ramifications for pension reform in Illinois, the Arizona Supreme Court today ruled unconstitutional efforts to curtail benefit increases for retired judges.

    Yet Illinoisans may not want to read too much into the ruling because the Arizona case involved only retired judges, a class of pensioners exempted from pension law changes in Illinois.

    Benefit cuts affecting compounded cost-of-living increases for other retired state employees, enacted in December, are being challenged before the Illinois Supreme Court.

    A spokesman for Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan, an indispensable factor in passage of the legislation, declined to comment on the Arizona developments, as did a spokeswoman for Senate President John Cullerton, D-Chicago. Mr. Cullerton was another key backer of the legislation while voicing doubts about its constitutionality.
Cullerton and Madigan refusing comment?

CapitolFax.com has another take:
  • State lawmakers cannot balance the budget by limiting pension benefit increases for retired judges, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled Thursday. The justices said a voter-approved section of the state constitution makes public pension plans a contractual relationship. More to the point, that provision says benefits “shall not be diminished or impaired.”
That is the argument being made in Springfield now as the Illinois Constitution contains that phrase almost word-for-word. Words are pesky things and contracts even peskier.

Labels:

64 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are lucky you are not federal employees, especially military. Congress and various presidents have been screwing with and reducing military retirement pay and benefits for forty years now.

2/22/2014 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A lot of Donahue and Dougherty endorsed public office candidates voted to reduce public employee pensions. But, rather than resign after their failure to endorse candidates that support us, they throw Shields out of office. Not that Shields wasn't pat of the problem, because they all were.

They think we are stupid. We are supposed to support candidates that will vote against a constitutional provision that protects all of us.

We don't understand. It is only other public employees that are getting screwed. It will never happen to us. And, if it does, we will get screwed less because Satan will reward us for having sold everyone out.

How much support will we have with other unions after having endorsed the very candidates that raped other unions of their benefits.


Start voting for Character, NOT Characters like Donahue and Dougherty.

2/22/2014 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Madigan and Cullerton both need to be thrown out of office. Preferably into a jail cell.

2/22/2014 12:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you mean to tell me that the Machine appointed judges will vote against pension reform when they exclude themselves?

How does that work for us?

2/22/2014 01:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Corrupt Madigan and Cullerton will find a way to screw us.

2/22/2014 05:33:00 AM  
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...

SCC is right. Don't read too much into this ruling.

2/22/2014 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can TIF money be used to pay down pension debt?

2/22/2014 08:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a mush larger reason while Emanuel and other politicans want to push back the funding that is required by law to start this year. It is not to work with unions on making a sound choice to create a system that works for everyone. It is solely due to the constitutional convention that will be coming up in about 12 years. This is the only means to legally change the language in the constitution and strike the diminishing clause from it.

They keep kicking the can down the road, as they have always done and when this comes up on the ballot in about 12 years the pension mess will have been beaten in to every voter in illinois and there will be massive media push to vote for the constitutional convention for the sole purpose of rewriting the constitution to save the state from the pension crisis.

They said the last time around it would have cost about 100 million to convene the convention, even if that raises to 200 million it will be framed as a huge win compared to the billions in unfunded pension obligations. They will keep raising the amount that every man, woman, and child owes in that state towards the pension debt and people will vote for the convention.

This is a guarnetee people. We have to wake up and stop bitching about nonsense around here.

2/22/2014 08:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you mean to tell me that the Machine appointed judges will vote against pension reform when they exclude themselves?

How does that work for us?

The local Judges won't. But remember some cases have been filed down state and wont be heard in Crook County. Also there is he appeal process moves it up the State-Wide and Federal Court.

2/22/2014 08:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi guys. I used to live in Chicago, don't now. But I can tell you one thing. I work as a portfolio manager but I can do math. The money does not exist. Plan for it now, because one way or another no matter what the law says, the entire system of ever-increasing public debt in this country is just a Ponzi which worked so long as rates fell and the debt could be rolled over at decreasing rates. But given interest compounds and rates have a zero-bound, the money runs out and there is simply none left.

Take a look at Detroit: they could raise taxes to 100% but a) people will jsut move before paying that and b) they still won't collect enough to meet all their obligations. This as you know includes pensions. Plan NOW because you WILL NOT GET WHAT YOU WERE PROMISED. You can say the law says this, and it may be black letter law that pension benefits can't be cut or whatever, but when the money runs out it's gone and it matters not what the law says. So plan now (and maybe seek a new line of work) because the pension money simply will not be there.

2/22/2014 08:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That Detroit proposal yesterday for the BK plan has pensioners getting a 10% cut, and this is after the BK judge pushed back on the city and banks proposal for worse the first time.

I don't think Chicago is very close to BK like Detroit yet, but the idea of cuts to pensions is gonna be with us for a long time.

2/22/2014 08:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The case was brought for the " Elected Officials Retirement Plan". I wonder if the lowly common government workers plans in Illinois will get the same type of ruling ?

2/22/2014 08:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Illinois is not Arizona.

The corrupt Illinois politicians who diverted and looted employee pension contributions for decades were also devious enough to buy a safeguard for their "reform" package by excluding Illinois judges' pensions from the cuts that will hit all the other employees in years to come.

This is what used to be called a bribe.

The judges will do what they've been paid to do and they will uphold the constitutionality of the cuts in benefits.

2/22/2014 08:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The populace does not care about our pensions, one way or another.

The Civic Federation and their corporate partners want your taxes for their own desires. Think Motorola, Boeing, Willis Tower. They use thier paid agents in political office and mass media to try to convince the voters that either we get a pension or they starve to death.

That will not happen. The truth is either we get ours or the Civic Federation's pals do.

Civic fed.org

Look into their board of directors and partners.

2/22/2014 09:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Culerton and Madigan are not commenting, it is because they are carefully considering the Ruling, and how they can consider twisting it against us. Eat, Drink and be Merry now, because when these criminals get done with us we will be eating cat food.

2/22/2014 09:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vote for Dan Rutherford!

2/22/2014 09:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter who is the FOP President, until we as a collective group get involved to save our pensions we run the risk of getting it shoved up our asses. Wake the fuck up people, you can't expect 10 fop reps to lead the charge on our pensions when you LAZY your own self, get INVOLVED, this jag off would like nothing better than to strip our benefits. Christ we had busses go to Springfield on we'd. And only 50 coppers could be bothered to go.PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!

2/22/2014 09:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A lot of Donahue and Dougherty endorsed public office candidates voted to reduce public employee pensions. But, rather than resign after their failure to endorse candidates that support us, they throw Shields out of office. Not that Shields wasn't pat of the problem, because they all were.

They think we are stupid. We are supposed to support candidates that will vote against a constitutional provision that protects all of us.

We don't understand. It is only other public employees that are getting screwed. It will never happen to us. And, if it does, we will get screwed less because Satan will reward us for having sold everyone out.

How much support will we have with other unions after having endorsed the very candidates that raped other unions of their benefits.


Start voting for Character, NOT Characters like Donahue and Dougherty.

Thanks Mike, nice try. Please, for the love of god go away and take that lollie pop looking brother of yours with you.

2/22/2014 09:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Think about this. The State has so many give away programs that they need to fund. By doing so they can ensure that the people that are receiving monies from these programs will continue to vote for the people and or representatives that are supporting them. The taxpayers will not go for tax increases so politicians need a new revenue stream to ensure funded programs. They took pension holidays for a long time and depleted the pensions. Now they are looking to go after the monies that they cant touch by limiting and diminishing individual pensions.The pension crisis should be shared by all people of the state by a tax of some way. Remember when the politicians were agrandizing themselves that they brought a new highway,bridge, health center,library,etc.eyc.to get votes for reelection a good portion of those monies were from pension holidays and not paying into the pension systems.That would go for all the state and municipalities. All Illinois residents benefitted by all these improvements and illbegotten gains from our pension funds so all residents not just a small portion should shoulder the cost.

2/22/2014 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is real nice to see that only certain public service employees are subject to rules that these legislators rules. It is also interesting that the legislators themselves also conveniently exclude themselves from the very reform they intend to impose on the people who do 90% of the actual work. Why is the 6-figure salary and pension of a judge, state rep, governor, or senator of no consequence to the budget when money is an issue, yet those of teachers, firemen, policemen, and many others who provide essential if not critical services to the public, are the focal point and end-all solution? I'd make bets that if they had their way, and every public employee worked for 7$/hr with no benefits, they would STILL be in debt and without a balanced budget because the problem is not the workers and their benefits or wages, it is the administration and their irresponsibility and corrupted work ethic that causes these problems.

2/22/2014 09:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Illinois collar county justices are bought and paid for by the Democrats in Chicago.
Judges collect campaign money. Who do think provides it and how do you think they'll rule?
Now if its a matter of constitutionality, a supermajority of legislators is needed to call for an ILL Constitution Convention to change it. (Next automatic ILCC is in 2028)

Know who you are voting for and who put them in office or on the ballot.

2/22/2014 09:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all the citys give away programs to ensure votes to the democratic party it is a wonder as to how we get the streets plowed and salted,Police and Fire protection and all the basic services that we as taxpaying home owners pay extreme taxes for.When and why did this city turn into the city of hand outs.People migrate here from other parts of the country to take advantage of these programs and this cuts into the monies of our basic city services.Just research all the programs and handouts that have been enacted in the last 10 to 15 years.The city then takes pension holidays to have money to pay for these programs. Where are our Alderman and why aren't they putting this Mayor and his band of cronies in Check.The Mayor is mimiking Daley in using children as a focal point for his adgendas while taxing like crazy, allowing a majority of city political workers in high positions 5 pay grades above their abilities making millions of dollars decisions affecting everything from airports,water systems,environment etc.etc.Our taxes are high because of mismanagement within this administration. If the Mayor was into reform he would have cleaned house of all past administration political appointees in high levels in all departments. These are the same people that brought us the skyway,parking garage and the big one that we all love the parking meter privatization. A lot of them are still in the same position they were in 4 years ago and going strong. Big example and an eye opener O'Hare Airport.

2/22/2014 10:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The legislative solution after a pensioner win in court would be to tax pension income like regular income. Don't be surprised if that is not the real plan. Time to stock up on the cat food for greedy seniors.

2/22/2014 10:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Detroit bankruptcy administrators decided that retired cops and fireman will get 90% of their pensions, everyone else 70% or less. lawyers for bond companies are suing in court saying that federal law demands everyone be treated equal. Does not bode well for out future pensions funds.

2/22/2014 10:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For some truly alarming reading check out the weekend edition of the Wall Street Journal, page A5, "Detroit Unveils It's Debt Plan". For all those among us that think its can't happen here you are sorely mistaken. The Mayor, his minions, and all other financially trouble municipalities are keeping a close eye on what's going on in Detroit. Contingency plans are the order of the day people, If you don't have one start formlating one. The welfare of you and your family is what matters most. I for one don't plan on playing the role of Captain on the sinking ship known as Chicago

2/22/2014 10:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CapitalFax is one the BEST blogs around. Rich Miller focuses on a totally different arena--Springfield and only Springfield.
The articles are well-written, incredibly well-researched, non-partisan, and well-moderated and not to mention has a readership from all over the state.

2/22/2014 10:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



congressman mel's porn changes in Zimbabwe magically dropped.

money talks, congressmen walks

it's called just-us

2/22/2014 11:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


hey, there's no reason to wait for the gay marriage law to take effect. do it now they say.

why did the people have to wait for the immigrant drivers license law to take effect or the conceal carry law to take effect.

this is not a nation of laws. we have a constitutional lawyer turned dictator running the country and it's trickling down.

nice part of being president is you can do whatever you want -- there's no checks and balances anymore. the nice part of being chicago mayor is you can just do what you want.. illinois gov. etc..etc..

it's hard work parsing the words in the constitution. prior laws and contracts to change the commonly accepted definition of the words to mean something else then sell it all to the public as the right thing to do, the 'common sense thing to do' [hahaha] while ensuring the change can not be used against the clouted class.

btw,, detroit's bankruptcy exit plan calls for about a 33-36 percent cut in public pensions.

chicago doubling the amount of borrowing via the so-called commercial paper used to fund unforeseen judgements and other things is just another tool that the city can use to file bankruptcy and follow in detroit's footsteps.

2/22/2014 11:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Need a good laugh? look what our great minds in the state legislature want now.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2014/02/democrats-propose-plan-to-require-employers-pay-into-state-run-retirement-program.html

2/22/2014 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Esquire magazine pension article followed by rolling stone pension article gra treads about how our pensions have been looted!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926

http://www.esquire.com/features/rahm-emanuel-interview-0314

Rahm the Impaler perfect title read about what he is going to do to police/fire pensions!

2/22/2014 12:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Congress and various presidents have been screwing with and reducing military retirement pay and benefits for forty years now.

2/22/2014 12:27:00 AM"

Meanwhile you encourage your kid to enter into Military Service, Dummy is as Dummy does.

2/22/2014 01:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course a state court will rule that way. However, the state laws and constitution mean nothing in Federal Bankruptcy Court. Just ask Detroit.

2/22/2014 02:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dougherty and Donahues experience cost us plenty the last three years. No retro, the pension in worse shape ever, retiree healthcare in jeopardy. Just say no to the inside of the FOP book cover. These clowns backed Eddie Acevedo and Tony Munoz who were the police with money and endorsements and both of these guys voted against the unions on pensions. They are loyal only to Cullerton And Madigan.

2/22/2014 04:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Closer to home and in a city much like ours, Detroit, the pensioners there are getting severely screwed right now.

Without a doubt, it will happen here, it's just a matter of time.

The people who are making these decisions are doing so because they believe and most importantly KNOW they can. To hell with any laws that were enacted to protect us.

How can they sleep at night knowing they are fucking the working people who followed the rules, payed their taxes and grew old with the assurance of a modest pension to survive on.

Any person who allows the pensions to be diminished should also diminish the pay, the benefits to anyone who is in anyway receiving a government check whether they are working or not.

2/22/2014 04:30:00 PM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

It says very clearly that if employer/employee agree - they can change the pension.

Absent that ... it cannot be changed.

So said Cullerton (Illinois Senate President). Check his website if you care too.

And Cullerton caved and voted on the latest crap. Even though he previously said these changes were unconstitutional.

2/22/2014 06:57:00 PM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Detroit bankruptcy administrators decided that retired cops and fireman will get 90% of their pensions, everyone else 70% or less. lawyers for bond companies are suing in court saying that federal law demands everyone be treated equal. Does not bode well for out future pensions funds.

2/22/2014 10:35:00 AM

----

The way I understand it the Detroit pensions are not backed by the state of Michigan. Our pensions ARE protected by the State of Illinois.

That's the difference.


The City of Chicago AND the State of Illinois would have to declare bankruptcy in our case. In Detroit, only the city had to declare bankruptcy.

2/22/2014 07:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enough with the broken record bull crap about Dougherty being a pension buster. That garbage couldn't farther from the truth. The voters don't buy any of that.

2/22/2014 11:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Contracts can be discharged or modified in BANKRUPTCY. Which is precisely what this fucked up Shithole of a state ought to do...

Give everyone what THEY contributed from THEIR paychecks as a lump sum - let them invest it as they will. Stop this unsustainable pension nonsense already...

2/22/2014 11:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the 10 thousandth time- State's CANNOT DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. ...repeat after me

2/23/2014 12:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The City of Chicago AND the State of Illinois would have to declare bankruptcy in our case"

That wont be a problem, the state of Illinois is between $200 and $300 billion underfunded in pension obligations. Money doesn't grow on trees...even though politicians think it does. They promise things so idiots would vote for them. The politicians are rich and the workers will be screwed.

Our jobs allow us to work from a variety of states, so we have sold our Chicago home and are moving out of state. I will sit back and watch the show from a safe distance.

2/23/2014 02:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides or in addition to bankruptcy, is the ability to change the Illinois constitution. That will not be difficult if people have to choose between taxes tripling or some reductions to public pensions.

The politicians are already looking to change the Constitution this year to remove the flat rate rate and begin variable rates (over 10% top tax rate) and significantly increase taxes. This will drive out even more people from the state and those that remain will not be in a good mood.

2/23/2014 02:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CapitalFax is one the BEST blogs around. Rich Miller focuses on a totally different arena--Springfield and only Springfield.
The articles are well-written, incredibly well-researched, non-partisan, and well-moderated and not to mention has a readership from all over the state.

2/22/2014 10:49:00 AM

--------

"Non-partisan"?

Bullshit.

Try to post an honest, well-researched, well-written comment that falls to the right of center on CapitolFax.

See what happens.

2/23/2014 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a mush larger reason while Emanuel and other politicans want to push back the funding that is required by law to start this year. It is not to work with unions on making a sound choice to create a system that works for everyone. It is solely due to the constitutional convention that will be coming up in about 12 years. This is the only means to legally change the language in the constitution and strike the diminishing clause from it.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The constitutional convention won't be up for a vote until 2028. Last vote was 2008 = voters rejected it.
Prior was 1988, and it was also rejected then.

It opens up the ENTIRE constitution for revision
And hopefully the voters will be smart again in 2028.

2/23/2014 10:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now if its a matter of constitutionality, a supermajority of legislators is needed to call for an ILL Constitution Convention to change it. (Next automatic ILCC is in 2028)
///////////////////////////////////////////////

1) ILCC 2028 is NOT automatic
That is the next year that it can be brought to a vote.

2) there is NO supermajority.
It is a referedrum put on the ballot asking all voters in the state if they want the constitution opened so that changes can be made to it.

The last two times this came up for a vote (1988 & 2008) the voters overwhelmingly voted against it.

In 2028 voters need to be reminded of what opening that constitution means. (And it's not just the pension clause)

2/23/2014 10:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides or in addition to bankruptcy, is the ability to change the Illinois constitution. That will not be difficult if people have to choose between taxes tripling or some reductions to public pensions.

What are you talking about? Taxes don't have to triple There already is a law SB3538 that addresses the pension problen. It starts in 2015 and will stop in 2040 when the pension has recovered. The only problem is the bill forces the city to put their share in and the city doesn't want to do that. They would rather spend money on entitlement programs instead of fundiong our pensions like they should have done for the last 30 years. This is getting old if you havent figured it out. Taxes would only have to be raised on the city's side the same as the CPS raise they tax levy to the max every year. Forget about the BS taxes, tripling, thats what the politicians want you to believe and you bought it

2/23/2014 11:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Contracts can be discharged or modified in BANKRUPTCY. Which is precisely what this fucked up Shithole of a state ought to do...

Give everyone what THEY contributed from THEIR paychecks as a lump sum - let them invest it as they will. Stop this unsustainable pension nonsense already...

Give everyone what they contributed? What about the 2 to 1 matching funds the city was supposed to contribute during that time. You are a moron. This was a condition of employment protected by Illinois state law and you talk about your stupid solution?

2/23/2014 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Contracts can be discharged or modified in BANKRUPTCY. Which is precisely what this fucked up Shithole of a state ought to do...

Give everyone what THEY contributed from THEIR paychecks as a lump sum - let them invest it as they will. Stop this unsustainable pension nonsense already...

2/22/2014 11:12:00 PM

Anonymous said...
For the 10 thousandth time- State's CANNOT DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. ...repeat after me

2/23/2014 12:10:00 AM

You have to give up on that idiot. He has no idea what he is talking about if he says shit like lets just give them the money THEY contributed.

2/23/2014 11:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vote every incumbent pol out! You want to change retirement benefits for new hires, have at it. Don't even attempt to change what was agreed upon when I was hired 28 years ago. A contract, and the Illinois Constitution defends that fact!!!!! Very simple.

2/23/2014 11:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It says very clearly that if employer/employee agree - they can change the pension.

Absent that ... it cannot be changed.

So said Cullerton (Illinois Senate President). Check his website if you care too.

And Cullerton caved and voted on the latest crap. Even though he previously said these changes were unconstitutional.

He still says they are. Thats why they are trying for a settlement. Had one a week ago in Rhode Island and in the article stated the courts have unheld 5 times thats the state cannot diminish you pension

2/23/2014 11:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

solution to pension fund shortage
No education , health , housing or food stamps for any illegal immigrant or person convicted of a felony until pension fund is
90 % funded

2/23/2014 05:18:00 PM  
Blogger john said...

Bankruptcy trumps the state constitution. As for the Banksters-- they run things. Stole trillions with the subprime mortgage nonsense ( our pension fund was hit hard). The last few areas where the Banksters can steal from-- Pension Funds, Social Security and the proposed MYRA nonsense. They are really pushing the global warming so they can open carbon markets world wide so they can steal more $$. Prepare for the worse and hope for the best.


old retired guy

2/23/2014 07:10:00 PM  
Blogger john said...

I posted earlier, forgot to mention the Banksters and Student Loans-- borrow 100k for a degree in social studies with no jobs. Funny thing is, student loans are currently protected from bankruptcy. Banksters got that from congress but there have been a few challenges recently in court.

old retired guy

2/23/2014 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once again john the old retired guy is wrong. Bankruptcy does not "trump" the State Constitution. You are comparing apples and oranges. Enjoy retirement and read a good book. Stay off the blog with all of your inaccuracies.

2/23/2014 11:57:00 PM  
Blogger john said...

Read the Constitution of Michigan concerning employee benefits. Then read the preliminary bankruptcy results. Did the Michigan State Constitution prevail? I think not.

old retired guy

2/24/2014 07:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Vote every incumbent pol out! You want to change retirement benefits for new hires, have at it. Don't even attempt to change what was agreed upon when I was hired 28 years ago. A contract, and the Illinois Constitution defends that fact!!!!! Very simple.

2/23/2014 11:37:00 AM

Get with it man. They changed pension benefits for new hires three years ago. You are living in the past. It was HB or SB 3538To get you up to date below is a link to some of the provisions and highlights. Read it and be current.

http://www.civicfed.org/civic-federation/blog/senate-bill-3538-police-and-fire-pension-reforms

2/24/2014 10:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

john said...
I posted earlier, forgot to mention the Banksters and Student Loans-- borrow 100k for a degree in social studies with no jobs. Funny thing is, student loans are currently protected from bankruptcy. Banksters got that from congress but there have been a few challenges recently in court


Dont quite understand what you mean by student loans are protected under bankruptcy laws. If protected means that you have to continue paying them after you file for bankruptcy, then I guess they are protected. I can do without that protection if I am going to have to continuer to pay off my student loans whether or not I file for bankruptcy
From an article on student loans and bankruptcy

Student debt cannot be “discharged” – that is, voided by a judge and removed from the borrower’s legal obligations – under current bankruptcy laws

2/24/2014 10:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bankruptcy trumps everything as ruled by the federal bankruptcy judge in Michigan. Now that would not automatically apply to a bankruptcy judge in Illinois, but he might use it for precedent. They are trying to save the pensions of police and fire in Detroit by giving them 90% when everyone else gets far less. But, the lawyers are suing over that tactic by saying law demands all creditors be treated equally. this is a mess that will go on for years until settled by the courts. But, one thing for sure if something is not done soon, there will be no pension for CPD in a few short years.

2/24/2014 11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
For the 10 thousandth time- State's CANNOT DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. ...repeat after me

2/23/2014 12:10:00 AM

You have to give up on that idiot. He has no idea what he is talking about if he says shit like lets just give them the money THEY contributed.

2/23/2014 11:36:00 AM
States cannot declare bankruptcy as they are prevented by federal law. Not so for cities, but in most states, state laws prevent cities from declaring bankruptcy without permission of state legislature. That applied to Michigan who pumped millions into Detroit and forced a restructuring plan onto the city. That state administrator is the person who asked for bankruptcy.

2/24/2014 11:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The way I understand it the Detroit pensions are not backed by the state of Michigan. Our pensions ARE protected by the State of Illinois.

That's the difference.


The City of Chicago AND the State of Illinois would have to declare bankruptcy in our case. In Detroit, only the city had to declare bankruptcy.

2/22/2014 07:05:00 PM
You don't understand and you are wrong. States cannot declare insolvent as they are prevented by federal law. And, Illinois constitution wording on pensions was modeled after Michigan law. The wording is just about the same.

2/24/2014 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Vote every incumbent pol out! You want to change retirement benefits for new hires, have at it. Don't even attempt to change what was agreed upon when I was hired 28 years ago. A contract, and the Illinois Constitution defends that fact!!!!! Very simple.

2/23/2014 11:37:00 AM
The other side of this coin is the fact that pension benefits were changed since you were hired, that is, changed for the better. Can the government take away the positive changes that were enacted since you were hired?

2/24/2014 11:13:00 AM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
The way I understand it the Detroit pensions are not backed by the state of Michigan. Our pensions ARE protected by the State of Illinois.

That's the difference.


The City of Chicago AND the State of Illinois would have to declare bankruptcy in our case. In Detroit, only the city had to declare bankruptcy.

2/22/2014 07:05:00 PM
You don't understand and you are wrong. States cannot declare insolvent as they are prevented by federal law. And, Illinois constitution wording on pensions was modeled after Michigan law. The wording is just about the same.

2/24/2014 11:12:00 AM

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I am not wrong. Chicago Police pensions are protected by the state in Illinois. No so in Detroit. Whether states can go bankrupt is debatable. But if Chicago goes bankrupt, Illinois assumes the financial obligation. That's all I'm saying.

Illinois Pension Code – 40 Illinois Compiled Statutes 5/22-403 – as saying that “any pension payable under any law herein before referred to shall not be construed to be a legal obligation or debt of the State…”

2/25/2014 10:24:00 AM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

sorry, that last post did not make sense.

Add this:

the section of the Pension Code cited by the Commercial Club is overridden by 40 ILCS 5/16-158(c), a part of the law that created TRS in 1939. This section specifically states, “Payment of the required State contributions and of all pensions, retirement annuities, death benefits, refunds, and other benefits granted under or assumed by this System, and all expenses in connection with the administration and operation thereof, are obligations of the State.”

2/25/2014 10:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bankruptcy trumps it all. Read the Fall Hills RI bankruptcy order by the judge. Read the Stockton Ca bankruptcy order by the judge. Read the preliminary order by the bankruptcy judge in Detroit. Michigan has almost the same language in their state constitution concerning pensions. States cannot go bankrupt but cities can. In some states, the cities have to get the ok from the state.

2/25/2014 08:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Bankruptcy trumps it all. Read the Fall Hills RI bankruptcy order by the judge. Read the Stockton Ca bankruptcy order by the judge. Read the preliminary order by the bankruptcy judge in Detroit. Michigan has almost the same language in their state constitution concerning pensions. States cannot go bankrupt but cities can. In some states, the cities have to get the ok from the state.


According to the papers today, only Arizona,Illinois and New York have the same wording about deminishing the pensions. Illinois wording "mirrors" the wording of Arizona constitution

2/26/2014 11:24:00 AM  

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