Duty to Retreat
If you go through the entire COPA railroad job, one fact stands out pretty clearly. This comment sums it up:
- Well COPA and the mayor will certainly not put it in writing, but the 'wink-wink' unwritten General Order and the BS "Sanctity of Life" (no the liberals still LOVE abortions) policy is just a cowardly, badly expressed DUTY TO RETREAT. Hey, that's fine ... as cops have ALWAYS said ... "PUT IT ON PAPER" You want me just to get back in the car and code it out when some abused kid comes out swinging a bat? "PUT IT ON PAPER." You are going to hang me out to dry when I do not have super-sharp video game reflexes and cannot wait to shoot and offender the split second his bat it raised in attack mode? "PUT IT ON PAPER"
State Law says that a police officer has no legal duty to retreat in the face of resistance:
- (720 ILCS 5/7-5) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-5)
Sec. 7-5. Peace officer's use of force in making arrest. (a) A peace officer, or any person whom he has summoned or directed to assist him, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. He is justified in the use of any force which he reasonably believes to be necessary to effect the arrest and of any force which he reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest.
Unfortunately, COPA Policy (and now Chicago Police Department Policy) pretty much says that if you want to keep your job (administratively), you now have a Duty to Retreat. If you don't, while you likely won't be prosecuted criminally, you will lose your job.
Labels: department issues, dumb ideas
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
94 Comments:
Since COPA and the Dept. aren't following state law, then neither should we...call for a strike. Fuck ‘em.
Duty to retreat?? No problem, I just got more travel time to my lunch location. See guys, you're making this whole thing out to be a bad thing. I'm just going to make it work for me just like every other time in my career the city came up with half assed ideas.
Not in LE, but that COPA "ruling" is the most preposterous thing I've ever read. That officer was completely justified in shooting LeGrier. I've been up close to someone having a psychotic break, and it is terrifying. Someone in that state who is also wielding a weapon is extremely dangerous, capable of almost superhuman strength and speed. The state law you listed further confirms he was justified in this not only to protect himself but also to protect the neighbor, though very sadly she was shot accidentally. I watched the kid's mother on the news the other night saying some ridiculous nonsense about police responsibility. Frankly none of this would have happened if she hadn't told her baby to stop taking his medication. This is on her. I hope the officer will be okay. Thank you all for all you do.
Report says it was only a domestic so apparently the officer was in no danger and should not have felt threatened. Looks like they put their imagination into this .
Fuck the job, my safety is number one. If you can't retreat and you shoot the prick, they'll tell you should have retreated. Fuck it, I'm not going to get hit on the head with a baseball bat because I'm afraid of losing my job. Shoot the asshole in a justifiable manner, and if they try to fire you, sue the city, the department, because you are trained to up holding State Laws. This finally coming to a head, fuck you liberal assholes, come and get me.
"Nothing in this policy requires members to take actions, or fail to take actions, that unreasonably endanger themselves or others”
G03-02-II-D
19p, can I get my 30 min?????
Ok so just runaway at every call then??
Why train the police to be able to utilize a fire arm? My liberal guess, so he, she, they (trans person) can fuck up. Again, you gotta know what Rahm expects of you when you are getting dressed for work or you just might find yourself not able to pay your mortgage and moving to Wilson or Lawrence Ave bridge under lake shore drive
Yes you do have a duty to retreat, right back into the womb to be fetal, so you won't be the next sacrifice. A little limitation of output is good when they are out to get you.
Thats what the b.s. force mitigation is about. If utilizing distance and time as a tactic is written dept. policy, a duty to retreat exists. Many p.o.'s like v.m. from 015, will get hurt as a result. Give the city the dept they want and i have no pity for you 3 year tact wonders when the bus of civil liabilty runs you down and copa rapes you for failing to follow the new "department policies"
I am developing a smart phone app that’s called “FETAL or NOT FETAL”. Is is a very simple and interactive app. After dispatch and arrival you open up the app ( this must be done from inside the patrol unit while plugged into power). After the app is open you are directed to answer a series of question such as, Did you arrive at the destination without exceeding the speed limit? upon arrival did caller greet you at the curb? After making contact( or no contact) is there a member of COPA there to direct you as the “ correct contact procedure ? After you answer a few more question the app will advise you whether or not to get out of your unit. If you are cleared to exit you then open a “ threat scanner” which you can find the exact distance of a possible threat { 50 foot rule applies) from that point the app will flash a message in bold red letters that says FETAL ! Return to you unit fill out final questionnaire. Or NOT FETAL ! Fill out report. This will be a free app on both IOS and Google Play. You are welcome.
Force Mitigation = duty to retreat. Maintain your distance or create some until the guy with the knife cuts an innocent person then you can shoot. After all, just because some guy is running down the street holding and swinging a knife doesn't mean he's trying to hurt anybody, he's just expressing himself. It's healthy to express yourself.
I'm still looking for my safe place. No luck yet.
Fuck it!!
EVERY Call, 19 Paul.
Give them what they want, immediately!
Blue flu? Strike? Sure, a strike is illegal. If you did it for one or two days only, that’s not enough time for court papers to be filed and have a judge order you arrested or return to duty.
Worst time in history to be the police. Stay fetal, stay safe. I'm retired a couple years now, and can't believe how tough it is for all of you out there. I keep you all in my prayers.
Just don't go to your assignments anymore.Then everyone's happy.
Have a happy new year by staying FETAL!
Wake up dummies. What can't you understand the criminals have won. Your job is now to document the calls. No arrests, no take downs just file necessary paperwork, and make sure grammar and spelling are correct. That's it just overwhelm they with a blizzard of paperwork. Let the criminals have the streets and the citizens defend themselves. When the libtards have had enough they will come crawling begging for protection. Until then FETAL is the standing order. The bugal is sounding retreat so retreat it is. It's just not worth it anymore.
There were two young women from Ireland who were attacked with a baseball bat in Chicago. One was hit in the head. She never recovered. Take care of yourselves anyway you can. You are loved.
Never Have I seen or heard of any C.P.D. Officer(s) walking away from the one on one threat of boldly harm. Growing up in Dist. # 3 and the city....gave me the best training in how to become a suburban L.E.O. Best to all. Stay safe.
I wonder.....if the officer on scene had retreated, and the little bat wielding alter boy turned on the neighbor and bashed her head in, would COPA be quoting the state law now?
HEY has that little great start to TO FROM save anyone?
You know i am being ordered yadda yadda yadda and i am under duress YADDA YADDA YADDA.
We need to update the warning for the start of a TO FROM we should start small and work are way up.
May be the EGG head PRIEB at FOP can come up with something because he does read alot....
So they’re telling us to be fetal but they don’t want to put it in writing.
Retreat, retreat, retreat..... why even leave the station?
AND THE SUPERINTENDENT IS WHERE? NO COMMENT FROM HIM? NOTHING LIKE BACKING UP THE TROOPS...... You and the mayor and the first deputy still on vacation? FYI....The mayor is "out of the country" in Belize, just to recap he had to cut his trip short when this shooting happened....
Wait, the next step is taking away your weapons. After all this a sanctuary city, can't have police armed can we. Lets face the criminals now have the upper hand. Your on your own if you feel the need to police the old way. No benefits for those who don't follow the new rules. The only hope is solidarity and job actions and protests. Not right or fair but those are cards your favorite politicians have dealt you. Maybe a job action including carpal tunnel due to all reports necessary is in order. Just a thought. No longer the police now just recording secretary. But well paid secretaries.
Past practice dictates that the city will fire an officer for cowardice( in attention to duty )if they retreat. It has has happened twice in the past I know of.
Oh I’ve been retreating since this mayor took office!
What does the G.O. say? What does the state statute say? After beating them in court, file civil damages against them personally. TAKE THEIR SAVINGS! ---Not a LEO, just some city worker who has beaten the City in federal court, twice.
Fuck the job, my safety is number one. If you can't retreat and you shoot the prick, they'll tell you should have retreated. Fuck it, I'm not going to get hit on the head with a baseball bat because I'm afraid of losing my job. Shoot the asshole in a justifiable manner, and if they try to fire you, sue the city, the department, because you are trained to up holding State Laws. This finally coming to a head, fuck you liberal assholes, come and get me.
12/31/2017 01:51:00 AM
Fuck the job? Try saying fuck your freedom because that's what you'll be risking tough guy. Speaking from experience wait till you're indicted and see how you sleep at night because you have "the law" on your side. Go ask JVD if he would do things different. Anybody thats had an indictment hanging over them views things a lot different, so take my advice and holster the attitude along with the gun, you'll sleep better.
Everyday right after roll-call I retreat to my hiding spot
I will mimic what someone else commented. The officer that shot was suing the bat boy's estate. We all know Lovey et al were going to get paid by Ald Burke's Finance Committee. Why not throw a monkey wrench in the hog's trough?
Well, here comes Rahm's COPA! "Oh, no you aint!" COPA gins up some crap that the officer wasn't really in danger. This was meant to screw this one cop.
But now this ruling will negate the entire Use of Force general order! The order will have to be changed to, unless you can provide EVIDENCE that you really really were in danger, you cannot shoot. So, if your body camera doesn't quite catch the attack on you, you can be ruled unjustified also. No evidence.
So essentially, Rahm re-wrote a hundred years of law enforcement
precedent just screw over one copper. Way to go, Mr. Mayor.
You'll still get fired if you retreat. Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation. Always has been, always will be. Cops are walking around with administrative guillotines over their heads. Been there. Done that. Why anyone would take this job is beyond comprehension.
Then when you retreat and something bad happens they get you for cowardice. They made it so the final outcome will be your firing every time things go wrong.
So should I not even show up to my jobs in the first place?? I’ll just code them when I’m dispatched.
The whole thing is a sick rigged system to always have a final outcome to jam the street cop. If they decide you acted to much you're fired. If you don't act you're fired. If you use less lethal force "taser" and bad things happen you're fired. This new COPA has one goal and there's nothing in place to check them. Scary days ahead.
Just what every criminal wants to hear. The Police have to retreat if faced with resistance.
How fucking stupid can any governmental body be?!!!
J.J.
5 police shot 1 killled in Colorado responding to a domestic disturbance, but the COPA scum don’t think they are dangerous callls.
Today is New Years Eve and I pray that all of our men and women in blue stay safe, especially tonight. We the citizens of Chicago really do appreciate all that you go through and we are thankful to each and every one of you for your work to keep us safe.
Thank you, stay safe and God Bless You all.
Here's an idea, since shooting someone more than 6 times is an issue, let's go back to the revolvers, no tasers, since we can't use them effectively, in fact let's take a giant leap backwards, and not have any equipment since we are the problem, and no one has accountability.
A job action across the Country is need, does the FOP have the balls?
This is a safety issue, the over sight (COPA), are going to cause the new police to hesitate and get hurt of killed. Safety issues if not addressed can be taken to a Civil Venue or in Federal court and rectified.
I am not a Chicago Police Officer but I do have the highest regard for the insanely hard job you have. That being said, why hasn’t the FOP union head gone on a national media blitz blasting the City of Chicago/COPA on this asinine decision. The union must start an offensive campaign against the City of Chicago and COPA.
The political left-wing is about to hand the savages the keys to the city.
When you go to a person with a bat/knife call, have the caller send them out to the car. That will insure that we can use distance to quell the subject. Done.
Not on the job: Have a question, this retreat thing is it written somewhere and if so, it's a violation of State Statues and is a job related safety issue. If it's a new policy, the baseball bat shooting does not apply because the policy did not exist when that shooting occurred. You cannot use new rules on a pass incidents, it's not legal. The first step, get FOP involved, this is a labor issue on many levels. The rank and file have a strong grievance on this issue. As many on this blog have stated, there are Federal, Municipal PD's, and private training; that demonstrate the dangers of an armed individual and the distances needed to be safe. What better way for the liberals to eliminate guns, start by taking away the police use of force and then apply it to the civilians. What good would a firearm be if you are restricted from using it.
And remember to make sure the offender falls comfortably when you tase them?? WTF How many over educated Cesario wannabee's did it take to think that one up??
Fuck off liberal asshole..
"Nothing in this policy requires members to take actions, or fail to take actions, that unreasonably endanger themselves or others”
G03-02-II-D
Since COPA and the Dept. aren't following state law, then neither should we...call for a strike. Fuck ‘em.
Now this is the smartest thing Ive read in many a year on SCC
But this would require all Blue Shirts to stick together. That will never happen.
"Nothing in this policy requires members to take actions, or fail to take actions, that unreasonably endanger themselves or others”
G03-02-II-D
****
Is this really in the GO?! What in the fuck does that even mean? I read “take action, if you want, shit or don’t, we don’t care. Just make sure the outcome is pretty and that no community members, no matter how violent, are unhappy...or it’s your ass, bitch!”
Enjoy the monsters of the city Chicago. You are going to get first-hand knowledge of what police have been protecting you against for years. Sure, you’ve been exposed more recently but the violence is going to spread more.
Retreat? Shit. Even a rabbit will defend himself.
Does COPA realize that coppers have been fired as of recent for retreating?
Maybe COPA can offer a grant to Natasha McShane's to pay for her medical expenses.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140522/bucktown/bucktown-bat-beating-convict-be-sentenced-thursday-faces-120-years
So the father calls the police because he hid in the closet thinking his son was going to kill him. We're we supposed to lead the bat wielding offender back into the house and leave?
It's an election year everyone. Rahm is suffering greatly in the black community and COPA is his tool to get re-elected or so he thinks. Let the city the city burn til the next election.
Has the NACCP put a violence travel warning on Chicago? Seems tourists are in the line of fire and the city doesn't care because tourists don't vote.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just don't go to your assignments anymore.Then everyone's happy.
12/31/2017 06:19:00 AM
That will work. You have any other bright ideas?
Anyone ever see the mid-80s movie called "No Retreat, No Surrender" ? Cheesy good fighting movie. VanDam makes a cameo.
12/31/2017 08:51:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So should I not even show up to my jobs in the first place?? I’ll just code them when I’m dispatched.
12/31/2017 09:03:00 AM
Do that and you will be looking for a new job
Anonymous Anonymous said...
You'll still get fired if you retreat. Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation. Always has been, always will be. Cops are walking around with administrative guillotines over their heads. Been there. Done that. Why anyone would take this job is beyond comprehension.
12/31/2017 08:36:00 AM
Because the jobs always been good and the have no idea how it has changed in the last two years
Plus quite a few come on not wanting to be the police and have no intention of being on the street for more than a few years. And the bosses will take care of them
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Past practice dictates that the city will fire an officer for cowardice( in attention to duty )if they retreat. It has has happened twice in the past I know of.
Big difference between retreating and running away and abandoning your partner
A March around City Hall on ST JUDES DAY ! The steady decline of respect and rational thought in this city needs to be brought to the attention of the Country. I know people will say this is disrespectful to our dead but to that I say BULLSHIT! Those names on the wall would be marching with us if they could. Call out the Mayor,States Attorney and Sheriff for complete lack of Law Enforcement, instead they just feed the beast growing more everyday.
Anonymous said...
Fuck the job, my safety is number one. If you can't retreat and you shoot the prick, they'll tell you should have retreated. Fuck it, I'm not going to get hit on the head with a baseball bat because I'm afraid of losing my job. Shoot the asshole in a justifiable manner, and if they try to fire you, sue the city, the department, because you are trained to up holding State Laws. This finally coming to a head, fuck you liberal assholes, come and get me.
12/31/2017 01:51:00 AM
Fuck the job? Try saying fuck your freedom because that's what you'll be risking tough guy. Speaking from experience wait till you're indicted and see how you sleep at night because you have "the law" on your side. Go ask JVD if he would do things different. Anybody thats had an indictment hanging over them views things a lot different, so take my advice and holster the attitude along with the gun, you'll sleep better.
12/31/2017 08:05:00 AM
So let all of us get this straight, you're saying in essence to take a beating or get shot, because you think the guy was being a tough guy protecting his ass. Speaking from experience? Well, so am I, how about getting shot is that enough experience. Anyone who pulls a gun, a knife, or a bat is going to catch a hail of bullet from your's truly.
Enjoy the monsters of the city Chicago. You are going to get first-hand knowledge of what police have been protecting you against for years. Sure, you’ve been exposed more recently but the violence is going to spread more.
12/31/2017 12:30:00 PM
I'll believe it's open season on monsters when the Wanted: Dead posters, with up-to-date particulars, are as plentiful as street signs..........
What good would a firearm be if you are restricted from using it.
12/31/2017 12:06:00 PM
The only restriction you refer to is that which an individual imposes upon himself by respecting and complying with the laws as they are written.
As I recall, a certain not the president anymore once was quoted as saying, our nation's Constitution is merely words written on old paper.......
A job action across the Country is need, does the FOP have the balls?
12/31/2017 11:22:00 AM
Do the dues paying members?
Duty to retreat = force mitigation!
Duty to retreat? Duty to refuse because I’m not properly trained? Can I refuse just like CFD until the scene is deemed safe? What a wacky city we live in and led by the wackiest leader.
I refused to take action many times in my career......It's called self preservation. I'm enjoying my pension now living la vida loca...have been for the last 5 years.
Anonymous said...
"Nothing in this policy requires members to take actions, or fail to take actions, that unreasonably endanger themselves or others”
G03-02-II-D
****
Is this really in the GO?! What in the fuck does that even mean? I read “take action, if you want, shit or don’t, we don’t care. Just make sure the outcome is pretty and that no community members, no matter how violent, are unhappy...or it’s your ass, bitch!”
Enjoy the monsters of the city Chicago. You are going to get first-hand knowledge of what police have been protecting you against for years. Sure, you’ve been exposed more recently but the violence is going to spread more.
12/31/2017 12:30:00 PM
"Nothing in this policy requires members to take actions, or fail to take actions, that unreasonably endanger themselves or others...”
"...Until they do."
Rahm’s problem - COPRA’s problem.
Either - or.
Don’t make them yours.
Stay Fetal or bid adieu.
Brave Sir Robin. Run away. Run away.
Don’t get prosecuted, don’t lose your job.
Simple enough.
Work smarter not harder
Did his majesty, Special Ed, ever answer the question in regards to a widow's benefits? I know it's off topic, but COPA is proving itself to be a political sham.
J.J.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
There were two young women from Ireland who were attacked with a baseball bat in Chicago. One was hit in the head. She never recovered. Take care of yourselves anyway you can. You are loved.
12/31/2017 07:02:00 AM
——-
I remember this: what did judge hooker give the guy and female— a lollipop and useless threats of probation
So do i retreat to my squad car and call 911 requesting my Sgt or higher ranking white shirt to tell me what action is necessary hahaha (sarcasm)
So do i retreat to my squad car and call 911 requesting my Sgt or higher ranking white shirt to tell me what action is necessary hahaha (sarcasm)
Per use of force class- it’s called a “tactical retreat”... smh!
Ya lead him back into the house,that’s the ticket.
Retired for some time. Is the poor kid copper in house arrest before or after the Kangaroo court wrote fiction regarding a whacked out bat swinger. MaMa should be charged by not having the psychotic one housed in a hospital. Rahm calls her to say he is sorry that the city filed a law suit on his estate. I never heard a CEO of a company call a person and say they were sorry for the CEO' to not take a million plus dollar hit in an agreement.
Rahm is one total idiot, he should be on anti psychotic drugs in wanting to make a ghetto mama rich for her kid she could of cared less for. All a game of a major money grab.
The kid ' worth for pain and suffering should be a 1 K gift card at Nike.
Anonymous said...
I am not a Chicago Police Officer but I do have the highest regard for the insanely hard job you have. That being said, why hasn’t the FOP union head gone on a national media blitz blasting the City of Chicago/COPA on this asinine decision. The union must start an offensive campaign against the City of Chicago and COPA.
12/31/2017 11:32:00 AM
Because they're afraid of City Hall and afraid of losing a good spot when their FOP gig is over.
A people that elect corrupt politicians, impostors, thieves, and traitors are not victims, but accomplices" - George Orwell
The 19th Ward fucks are wonderful examples of the above quote........ Dart the Fart, Sheehee and the rest.............
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I use to tell people why cops and the military are different is because they get fired for not charging the sound of gunfire. They have to stand their ground; the smallest cop is expected to take on the largest man. If they don't, under our standards they are cowards and can be fired.
The rules have changed. Change with them. The fuck with the bat? Now? Go sit in the patrol car and let him beat the shit out it until 100 cops arrive and maybe his mother can get him under control.
Liberals. Two sets of rules. A U.S. Marshal shot and killed a prisoner in a Utah courtroom some years ago. He was armed with a pencil, given to him by his attorney, and ran towards the judge. All the lawyers and judges thought he was hero.
Now, he was a bad guy, and I'm ever so happy he is dead, but never-the-less, can you imagine the outrange from that judge if a CPD officer shot someone, anyone, who is merely running at them armed with a pencil?
I'm not CPD, but you young guys out there, listen to the old guys and follow their advise. It was put into a nutshell for me back in the early 70s by an old-time narcotics agent. "Big case, big caca, little case, little caca, no case, no caca." Took me a while to understand he was right, Pass it on
When you REWARD people for resisting arrest... you get more silly bullshit. The pols, media , tv -music and movies promote resisting the police.
let's have a "shoot" - "no shoot" game with the COPA investigator. Give me a wiffle bat and he/she gets a nerf gun. Go ....
if I manage to strike him once in 10x without him shooting me .... then he gets a slap to the head with a giant dildo.
Wheel guns kick ASS!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
A people that elect corrupt politicians, impostors, thieves, and traitors are not victims, but accomplices" - George Orwell
The 19th Ward fucks are wonderful examples of the above quote........ Dart the Fart, Sheehee and the rest.............
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1/01/2018 04:14:00 AM
Hey, why bother with the 19th, just watch and see how they all fall in line and vote Democrap......
Big case - big caca, little case - little caca, etc. I like that. Makes sense. Just saw on news FOP is challenging COPA ruling. Maybe they'll get a taste of "big caca". I do believe they stepped on their di#$s on this one.
Abortion is not a liberal phenomenon. Abortions were initially available only to women in well to do families, because the procedure isn't cheap. Let us,not forget so quickly conservative (now former) Pennsylvania Congressman (and pro-life stalwart)Tim Murphy, who told his female side-piece to go get one when she told him she believed she was pregnant last year. Lots of people talk out of both sides if their mouths when it comes to abortion.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just don't go to your assignments anymore.Then everyone's happy.
12/31/2017 06:19:00 AM
That will work. You have any other bright ideas?
12/31/2017 03:32:00 PM
ALERT, ALERT, TROLL..............
Detectives here, I have a case in my In-box where the female victim was threatened by a guy who was armed with a bat. I guess I’ll wait until Eddie makes a decision so that I can know if the bat considered deadly weapon or not. If not, I’ll reclassify the incident and make it an Assault- Simple. An Exceptionally Closed Other Exception sounds about right.
I forgot to ask the victim how far away from the offender was she standing when the threat was made. If she was more than 21inches , away from the offender, she can forget it. Before I make an arrest: I need to find out who made the 911 call. I need to know who told who to make the 911 call.
I need to know if there’s any history of mental illness or molestation. I need to know who raised the offender and if he or she is a Ward of the State. I need to know if the offender had a troubled background or if he or she has a cap and gown picture. If applicable, I need to confiscate all cap and gown photos, so that they want be used in the media.
I just might admonish the Reporing Officer’s for making it an Aggravated-Assualt, because we all know that there’s nothing aggravated about a bat and that a bat is not a deadly weapon. If you don’t believe me ask a “reasonable officer”.
I remember No Retreat No Surrender. The hairdos on those guys were Keesing Bandit worthy.
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