Jury Instructions Already?
If they are hashing out jury instructions already, the end of trial could be coming quicker than anticipated:
- When jurors make their decision on whether to convict Jason Van Dyke in the murder of Laquan McDonald, Van Dyke’s lawyers want them told they can’t use “the vision of 20/20 hindsight.”
As the Van Dyke trial continues in Judge Vincent Gaughan’s courtroom, the more arcane but critical battle over the instructions that the judge will give the jury before they decide the case continues behind the scenes.
Special Prosecutor Joseph McMahon late Tuesday filed a motion challenging four instructions proposed by Van Dyke’s team as “complicated, lengthy and unabashedly argumentative.”
And what are the instructions?
- They need to consider “specific acts” McDonald committed to resist arrest before he was shot
- If Van Dyke’s decision to use deadly force against McDonald was justified, then he was not required by law to use “non-deadly alternatives first”
- That when a person is in reasonable fear for their life, that person isn’t required by the law to “use infallible judgement” when deciding if deadly force is justified — and that “the passage of a few seconds during which the fear abates is normally not enough to hold that person guilty of an unjustified homicide”
- Police officers often are forced to make split-second judgments about what’s reasonable, rather than with “the 20/20 vision of hindsight.”
The first instruction isn't vital. The second and third are pretty important. That last one is the kicker. Numerous Supreme Court decisions specifically mention that Use of Force is based on what a "reasonable police officer" believes, not what a non-LEO thinks based on hindsight.
Labels: events
74 Comments:
The 4th one is vital. The jury will have to decide if VD was reasonable or did the other officers that followed him without shooting or the officer that testified they pulled away just prior to the shooting were reasonable. Tough call , sure hope they give VD the benefit of the doubt
Rudy the callers testimony was incorrectly interpreted he said McDonald came at “him and pulled a knife and pointed at me and was going to hurt me” what happened when he got 3 feet from you” answer “Me sacó un cuchillo, y queria lastimarme”. Translation is wrong he’s saying “ he pulled a knife on me pointed at me and was going to hurt me!! Unbelievably F??cked up Please bring this to JVD Attorney and attention Witness intimidation also !MISTRIAL!
seemed to me like it could go until next week.
What time do I bring the marshmallows for the fire. Right Cooter
Does Special Prosecutor Joseph McMahon really want to win this case that badly that he wants to deny those instructions to the jury? How long did he and his team prep for this case? Maybe this trial would be fair if the prosecution wasn't permitted to prep and they received their evidence as the trial went on. Then they could have made those "split second decisions" that some other profession has to make everyday. Nothing good will come of convicting VanDyke, everybody speculates what they think should have been done but nobody wants to trade places with him. And don't forget the prosecution's opening statement that VanDyke shot a "black boy. This case should be determined by the law and not what the mob mentality wants.
Yea.. yea. Let's get to the part of me collecting some money
Best day for the defense yet. Sayer did awesome and the truck driver’s testimony really helped bolster JVDs defense. The female officer and male sgt really didn’t lose ground overall (which is a plus)
Best sign it was a good day for the defense? Barely anything about the trial on the Sun Times website. Everyday the defense was featured as a main item. Today you have to bury through all the other nonsense to find out what happened
Prayers for JVD!
And to have it all covered, I am holding my rabbit's foot and my horseshoe!
Good luck JVD!
I had planned to email this SCC, but you beat me to the punch. Fire has rehired 80 Firemen and 30 paramedics starting at 1200hrs on Friday. The members have been told to plan on spending the night in a camp-like situation. Seems as if strike teams are being formed, the plan is in place to combat the combatants. What has me worried is how large the scale is, for us. It’s never been so large, so deliberate and so well put together. Not for NATO, not for the blizzard (s), the marathon, the hawks rally(s), sox or cubs wins......even the bulls riots in the 90s. The city knows something, they have some kind of intel. We’ve even seen buildup at our local amry armory. They know the trail is going to end soon, and prob ugly. Even the Lilly liberals I know agree they don’t have the proof for 1st.
Stay safe out there men and women. Don’t end up in that chair. Protect your families and other loved ones. Forget the rest. Let it burn.
Not one former exempt called by the defense, the FOP Lawyer was told not too by the 5 star restaurant diners of the FOP.
Looks like some one on the board needs a retirement job or their kid getting a merit spot.
Throw these bums out you active P.O' and dicks. They steal more then Daley and Rahm did as mayor.
Since 1981 when they got in, all our dues went to feed them and fly them around the world on my dime and now your dime. The G should plant a bug in their office. They got Jimmy Hoffa !!
one is a total laugh. Unions and Democrats are the same. Nice union fool members always do what their zero unions tell them to do.
Those signs in front of peoples home....Union H
Those four points are the same guide lines that the now superintendent used when he ruled the shooting was justified four years ago.
"Let it burn"- Hey, Im part of the rest so I get to burn? Thanks for nothing except high taxes. Now you expect me to support you? Good luck with that.
Hope they waited around for rider to show up.
ears Vienna is bringing our special edition hot dog pack called Burning City Dogs.
Hurry and get your Vienna/Mary Ann/ Budweiser riot pack. Ideal for a burning bloc party. At all Jewel and Mariano locations.
Question Does anyone really know the answer At this point can the Prosecution ask the jury to find on a lesser charge like 2nd degree murder. Or is it 1st degree murder as charged all or nothing. I'm not talking about the Agg batt. charges Does anyone know?
Van Dyke’s African-American ‘brother’: ‘People need to know the Jason I know’
He refers to Jason Van Dyke as his “brother” and his “best friend.”
Yet he’s given no in-depth interviews since the former Chicago police officer was arrested and charged with murdering Laquan McDonald four years ago.
But now Keith Thompson, Van Dyke’s African-American brother-in-law, is finally speaking out.
“We have maintained our silence up till now at Jason’s request,” said Thompson. “He was concerned for our safety.”
In speaking out now, Thompson is attempting to counter the claim that Van Dyke killed McDonald because he is racist.
“We may be a biracial family, but we are a blended family, a close family,” Thompson told Sneed in a late-night phone interview, after he got home from his job as a plant supervisor in Kane County earlier this week. “Although I’m an only child, this guy has become my brother, the only one I’ve ever had.
Thompson, 35, said he’s never agreed with the claim that Van Dyke — whom he and other family members call “Jay” — was a white cop who had no regard for a black life.
OPINION
“When Jay was first charged four years ago, I did not believe for one second this was a racial incident. No how. No way,” he told Sneed. “I never believed this was about color. I never believed what happened was motivated by racism because Jay is not that kind of guy.
“We are a family of no color.”
Thompson absolutely does not believe the shooting of McDonald constitutes first-degree murder, as prosecutors have alleged in a trial that continues this week at Cook County Criminal Court.
“I believed then and now this was not a premeditated murder,” Thompson said. “You’d have to know Jay to know that.”
Thompson, who declined to give too many details about his personal life out of fear for his family’s safety, has known Van Dyke for more than a decade.
The son of a military man, Thompson — whose parents were divorced — moved around growing up, attending 10 different schools. He said he met Van Dyke’s wife, Tiffany, through his job in Kane County 13 years ago, and then met her husband.
He started dating her sister, Kimberly, about a decade ago, and they are now married. Although they have no children, he and Kimberly are very close to his two daughters from a previous relationship.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/jason-van-dyke-laquan-mcdonald-keith-thompson-african-american-brother-in-law-michael-sneed/
When is the defense going to call all of the brass from CPD who reviewed the evidence and determined that JVD was justified in his use of force per our general orders? I mean wtf that would be huge in front of the jury.
I think Jason Van Dyke will be found guilty of official misconduct. Not guilty for all of the other charges.
I can't believe how incompetent the prosecutors are. This is the best of the best they have?
Pray for JVD and his family.
I once sat on a criminal jury.The judge tells you what to consider,and what not
in your deliberations.I was shocked by the wisdom and pure common sense of my jury.
If all the defense has to prove is that the officer felt threatened when he shot.Then game over innocent.
Let's hear it for nullification. Something the leftist mass deserves in spades. One null for this trial,
another for the next. Heads would explode.
How did our Department manage to get an Hispanic civilian tow truck driver in on our conspiracy? (Sarcasm)
I thought this kid was doomed but I think the defense has done a good job of representing him. Hung jury after a week of deliberations, lots of o/t for the police sitting somewhere on their hands waiting for the gavel to drop.
Here is a question:
Why has a Blackhawk helicopter been taking off and landing from the heliport behind Costco on 14th and Ashland? I can't say I've ever noticed such a thing before, but since Monday, this has been going on. The timing is suspect.
What does 20/20 mean? Not everyone has perfect vision.
Time closing in to get tailored for your asbestos underoos…...
This is Chicago. The rule of law does not apply.
We need the national guard and martial law before the final verdict Is released. Like the bulls riots, we will see looting and madness in the street regardless of the outcome. A particular segment of society will use this trial as an excuse for total destructive behavior, lashing out just because they can get away with it. The police will be given the order to stand down and let the city burn causing millions of dollars in damage. The well-adjusted citizens will be hiding in their homes until things quiet down.
1:15 am-
I couldn't agree more my friend
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
C’mon 10A!.... Hold on! Hold on! Damn you 10B!
Ok, did anyone else catch this or am I misinterpreting her testimony?
The female P.O. said she went to the calls for help “begrudgingly” and that she would’ve rather taken lunch???
Wow!! That speaks volumes of her character!
Hopefully she’s in the small minority’s that’d ignore calls for assist over the urge to eat.
She’d be lambasted for a comment like 30 years ago!
F’in embarrassing!
At Roll Call at 018 they told Us, 1st and 2nd watch cover the District and 3rd watch goes to Sox Park,The Shit heads are going Downtown to Loot, Keep us all at 018 and 001 And give us Help.Squad We have a Fire,Flames Visible at Water Tower Place.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I had planned to email this SCC, but you beat me to the punch. Fire has rehired 80 Firemen and 30 paramedics starting at 1200hrs on Friday. The members have been told to plan on spending the night in a camp-like situation. Seems as if strike teams are being formed, the plan is in place to combat the combatants. What has me worried is how large the scale is, for us. It’s never been so large, so deliberate and so well put together. Not for NATO, not for the blizzard (s), the marathon, the hawks rally(s), sox or cubs wins......even the bulls riots in the 90s. The city knows something, they have some kind of intel. We’ve even seen buildup at our local amry armory. They know the trail is going to end soon, and prob ugly. Even the Lilly liberals I know agree they don’t have the proof for 1st.
The city doesn’t know anything. They have no intel and have been wrong about every protest. At best they are just adding more to protect themselves from being accused of not being prepared. What does the city care, our taxes are paying for it
The priest from JVD’s church received death threats for supporting one of his flock. Unfucking believable!
After the prosecution asked the range instructor about deadly force being the last resort, the defense should have objected, or at least requestioned the witness. Because sometimes the last option is the first option or resort. For instance, on viewing a gun battle. You're not going to use the first resort/option ( presence and verbal command) only because you have to act fast and preserve life. So using deadly force along with verbal command would be considered the last resorr....BUT IS THE FIRST AND ONLY OPTION in this scenario.
3000 Spots and a Cover Up!!!
ooh ooh, conspiracy theory.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23861/heres-what-that-commando-laden-uh-60-black-hawk-was-doing-whipping-around-chicago-today
Well I can understand having fire be prepared...due to the fact if these assholes decide to start fires...thats CFD's job not OURS! So, let fire get prepared like we are....the only difference is were not carrying water hoses.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Best day for the defense yet. Sayer did awesome and the truck driver’s testimony really helped bolster JVDs defense. The female officer and male sgt really didn’t lose ground overall (which is a plus)
Best sign it was a good day for the defense? Barely anything about the trial on the Sun Times website. Everyday the defense was featured as a main item. Today you have to bury through all the other nonsense to find out what happened
9/27/2018 02:19:00 AM
I thought the opposite. The cross exams had me wondering why these people were even called as defense witnesses. I think both sides have performed less than expected.
Judge Vincent Gaughan needs to recuse because of Flores motion for mistrial!
Is anyone else sending people to OEMC. Two P.O’s from our watch have been going down there for some super secret assignment they are not allowed to talk about.
As a former Marine (1997-2006), my legally obtained firearms are clean and loaded to protect my property and family against any threats presented now or in the foreseeable future in this city filled with psychopathic feral savages.
I highly recommend other Americans that unfortunately must remain in this city to be ready for disturbances of a violent nature, especially if if the "community" and their leftist/Alinsky allies disagree with the outcome of the JVD trial.
The CPD has nowhere near enough officers to protect every inch if the city should riots breakout. You will be on your own, until help arrives (if it arrives). The time is now to make your preparations.
God Bless.
Anonymous said...
We need the national guard and martial law before the final verdict Is released. Like the bulls riots, we will see looting and madness in the street regardless of the outcome. A particular segment of society will use this trial as an excuse for total destructive behavior, lashing out just because they can get away with it. The police will be given the order to stand down and let the city burn causing millions of dollars in damage. The well-adjusted citizens will be hiding in their homes until things quiet down.
9/27/2018 08:40:00 AM
This should go down in the history books as "Rahm the twerp Emmanuel's Riot Fest"
The prosecution is desperate, blocking instructions to the jury. The judge also not allowing evidence. Let there be riots. It would be a travesty if there was injustice with Chicago politics involved
Anonymous said...
How did our Department manage to get an Hispanic civilian tow truck driver in on our conspiracy? (Sarcasm)
9/27/2018 07:49:00 AM
They borrowed him from Daley's Hired Truck Program...(Not sarcasm)
When is the defense going to call all of the brass from CPD who reviewed the evidence and determined that JVD was justified in his use of force per our general orders? I mean wtf that would be huge in front of the jury.
Yes I agree when are these brass going to be called and say that they approved the shooting to be justified ????
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...
This is Chicago. The rule of law does not apply.
Sounds like the 12th District
Has there been a ruling that blocks CPD supervisors from testifying? This shooting incident was approved throughout the chain of command as justifiable. They're testimony would enforce the fact that the shooting was deemed appropriate per department policy, as well as per state law. Why not use their testimony to save this officer from incarceration?
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"I had planned to email this SCC, but you beat me to the punch. Fire has rehired 80 Firemen and 30 paramedics starting at 1200hrs on Friday. The members have been told to plan on spending the night in a camp-like situation...."
"The city doesn’t know anything. They have no intel and have been wrong about every protest. At best they are just adding more to protect themselves from being accused of not being prepared. What does the city care, our taxes are paying for it."
9/27/2018 11:20:00 AM
City Hall's "ability to have intel" dissipated like a dry
fart in the wind upon the conclusion of Sparkle-Farts tenure
as POTUS...
No more excerpts/extracts of NSA/CIA/FBI foreign intelligence
service briefings and alerts.
Especially Rahm al-Ghoul getting info from the Israelis.
Pretty much everything city Hall and CPD HQ gets is
second hand, gleaned from media sources from elsewhere
or directly mined from this blog.
...They have the sum total of dick-all in regard to info.
...They have done the sum total of dick-all in regard to prep.
The only thing HQ and City Hall have is deliberately
burning Policemen at both ends out of misguided spite
for putting up a fight via this blog.
Now if only fop would kick, stomp, bite, scratch, gouge,
spit, cut, and kick City Hall/HQ/local media in the nuts
for fun and fuckery like they've done for all these years.
"WAH! You cops aren't supposed to fight US dirty
like WE fight you! You're supposed to be "gentlemen"
and play by the rules!"
The woman that "was laughing and talking" to McDonald, I believe she even stated she didn't view him as a threat, and yet she called 911 so she would be safe walking from her car to her home. Ya sure he was no threat at all that's why she dialed the police. And they didn't even call her on the hypocrisy of her statements and actions.
With regard to the Guard, it seems they are never called out and in place until after much or most of the destruction has occurred. I can't see this time being any different. I'm sure many of the "activist protestors" are planning on an October "Black Friday" type shopping/looting spree. Hey no problem, it's just wealth redistribution and social justice. The liberals will be fine with it as long as their stuff isn't touched. Another added perk is the chance at the next ghetto lottery.
Military style helicopter taking off and landing near Roosevelt Road. It's a timing drill for the fast-rope teams if they have to enter a war-zone. That area having the means to respond south and west. One thing the military has overlooked is the fucked up gridlock construction on Western, Damen, Ashland. It's fair to say that Rahm and his Dept of Transportation give a shit about gridlock traffic.
Why has a Blackhawk helicopter been taking off and landing from the heliport behind Costco on 14th and Ashland? I can't say I've ever noticed such a thing before, but since Monday, this has been going on. The timing is suspect.
There is a helicopter landing pad over there. It has been there for a couple of years. Every once and a while military type helicopters use the pad.
Let's all be honest with ourselves here.... The outcome of this trial matters very little in the grand scheme of things. Not guilty? Protests,riots and looting. Guilty? Celebrations, looting and more looting.
We're still gonna be under a consent decree for the next 5 to 10 years. And as long as Illinois is a blue state and Chicago is a democratic plantation, this Dept will continue to sink deeper into the bowels of shit...
1st and 16th is all that matters anymore.
Rham divebombing the hell out of this city just in time. Walk away after you helped turn it into a steaming pile of shit. Anyways, Bring on the OT. I want some hardwood floors in my condo. Just don’t expect me to do anything. If the savages burn down their neighborhoods, I will watch and laugh.
Some of you are acting like this is going to be a cross section of the purge meets the dawn of the dead and the day after. This isn't going to be the apocalypse. Yes, there will be looting and damage, maybe some fires but all consumable in pockets of the City. Mostly, just loud-mouths and crowd control. The long hours are going to suck, standing on your feet all day is too, but this is only a short term break in the routine. Dont chase anyone, dont leave your partner, ever, and dont get lured into an ambush where you'll get your ass kicked. Your not going to get murdered or skinned alive, they'll mostly be mouths spewing shit, so act accordingly. Who gives a fuck what they have to say. Every asshole makes noise, some are just louder than others, so just relax, you'll be fine. Tired and sore, but fine, with a little extra money that was forced on you.
My instructions would be vote Not Guilty the RUN!!!!!
Be prepared for because I see only 2 outcomes. There will either be a hung jury, or he’ll be found not guilty.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I think Jason Van Dyke will be found guilty of official misconduct. Not guilty for all of the other charges.
I can't believe how incompetent the prosecutors are. This is the best of the best they have?
Pray for JVD and his family.
9/27/2018 06:58:00 AM
Wheres the official misconduct???
These boots were made for walking...
Be prepared for because I see only 2 outcomes. There will either be a hung jury, or he’ll be found not guilty.
I've watched as much as I could and I don't see it that way. A hung jury is possible though. Both Dan Herbert and the prosecution team has looked overwhelmed though. I don't think either side was prepared for the pressure. Knowing every minute is on live television. The female PO that testified today was a joke. The retired PO that was a former training officer was great on the stand. The prosecution couldn't shake him. 30+yrs on the force, I salute you, sir.
Anonymous Relax people said...
Some of you are acting like this is going to be a cross section of the purge meets the dawn of the dead and the day after. This isn't going to be the apocalypse. Yes, there will be looting and damage, maybe some fires but all consumable in pockets of the City. Mostly, just loud-mouths and crowd control. The long hours are going to suck, standing on your feet all day is too, but this is only a short term break in the routine. Dont chase anyone, dont leave your partner, ever, and dont get lured into an ambush where you'll get your ass kicked. Your not going to get murdered or skinned alive, they'll mostly be mouths spewing shit, so act accordingly. Who gives a fuck what they have to say. Every asshole makes noise, some are just louder than others, so just relax, you'll be fine. Tired and sore, but fine, with a little extra money that was forced on you.
9/27/2018 07:34:00 PM
YOUR TAKE ON THIS IS OH SOOOOOO WRONG !!!!!!!!!
Let us to never forget our fellow Brothers, on 07 JUL 2016 alone gunman killed FIVE Dallas Police Officers and seriously injured Nine other Officers and Two civilians.
This outcome has the potential for emotional violence.
Lets not be Complacent, Complacency disguises itself into contentedness and comfortability, placing you into a mind set without awareness. So learn from past incidents and don't think it can't or won't happen.
Keep your heads up and cell phones down be alert and aware of your surrounding. OFFICER SAFETY.
Definitely not a believer in apocalypse in out life. But between, the midterms and its desire to impeach Trump, the SCOTUS hysteria, Van Dyke trial, to name a few, seems like some of the ingredients are there.
Pretty good instructions.
If anyone pays attention to them and not the screaming media and threats of riots...
Heads up phones down is very good advice. Give netflix a break for the next few days the life you save may be your own. Don't be like all the other zombies walking and driving with a phone glued to there head and no comprehension of whats happening around them. It's time for Col Jeff Coopers condition yellow. That should be where your head is at anyway before and after the coming shit show. Heads up phones down!
Wow, this changes everything, Sneed wrote about VanDykes black brother in law yesterday. He cant be racist said his brother in law. I sure hope the jury reads about that.
The exempts will not be called to testify in the criminal JVD case.
Their opinions that the shooting was justified by Department policy is irrelevant in the criminal case.
If JVD beats the criminal case he has the Police Board hearing to contest his firing. There the exempt's testimony will be crucial. If they can be put on the record as saying the shooting was within policy the CR# would/should be NOT SUSTAINED.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The woman that "was laughing and talking" to McDonald, I believe she even stated she didn't view him as a threat, and yet she called 911 so she would be safe walking from her car to her home. Ya sure he was no threat at all that's why she dialed the police. And they didn't even call her on the hypocrisy of her statements and actions.
The question is why did he call her as a defense witness? He must have known what she was going to testify to. After a week off portraying McDonad as a drugged out wild aggressive guy he put her on the stand and she contradicts all the rest. Said he was no threat
Think it really hurt the defense because they said he was violent and it was a car jacking
Anonymous Anonymous said...
We need the national guard and martial law before the final verdict Is released. Like the bulls riots, we will see looting and madness in the street regardless of the outcome. A particular segment of society will use this trial as an excuse for total destructive behavior, lashing out just because they can get away with it. The police will be given the order to stand down and let the city burn causing millions of dollars in damage. The well-adjusted citizens will be hiding in their homes until things quiet down.
9/27/2018 08:40:00 AM
Not sure the governor can call them out before. Thought they can be activated because of civil unrest
Blogger The Song Remains The Same said...
Ok, did anyone else catch this or am I misinterpreting her testimony?
The female P.O. said she went to the calls for help “begrudgingly” and that she would’ve rather taken lunch???
Wow!! That speaks volumes of her character!
Hopefully she’s in the small minority’s that’d ignore calls for assist over the urge to eat.
She’d be lambasted for a comment like 30 years ago!
F’in embarrassing!
Lambasted for a comment 30 years ago? Where did that come from? Have no idea what you are talking about
.....Thought they can be activated because of civil unrest
9/28/2018 05:13:00 PM
My civil is unrested.
Activate me.
Lambasted for a comment 30 years ago? Where did that come from? Have no idea what you are talking about
9/28/2018 07:31:00 PM
Obviously reading comprehension isn’t your strong point.
9/28/2018 07:31:00 PM
Obviously reading comprehension isn’t your strong point.
9/29/2018 07:26:00 PM
Leave your comment
What are you trying to say? I don’t understand
I'm suspicious of the lawyer who spells judgment incorrectly. It was like that in the Sun-Times also, so I can only assume they took it verbatim from the instructions.
Like the softball in 017 that went down on lunch when he had a person shot a half block from him.
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