Prosecution to Wrap Up Today?
- Testimony is proceeding faster than some anticipated. The prosecution could rest as early as Thursday. So far, jurors have heard from 21 prosecution witnesses over three days. Still on deck to testify is the state’s ballistics expert. If this brisk pace continues, the defense may begin its case Monday. Lead defense attorney Daniel Herbert promised the jury in his opening remarks that the defense would call experts to show Van Dyke’s use of lethal force was justified.
So far, the prosecution hasn't proven even the barest hint that racism played any part in this shooting, even though in opening statements they declared that it was sole motivating factor. This brings to the fore an interesting question that was e-mailed to us just last night:
- Is the prosecutor attempting to hang the jury?
Our letter writer expressed a thought that Herbert took the jury because Herbert thinks he can hang it based solely on the racial and personal backgrounds. Now the prosecution, after a lofty promise to pin this whole thing on racism, hasn't made a convincing argument to back it up. Is McMahon trying to hag the jury, too, knowing that Alvarez screwed up the charging?
The defense made some good points today pointing out that even the prosecution's "expert" couldn't determine what order the shots occurred and whether the "fatal shot" was fired first, third or sixteenth, nor if it was fired while the offender was upright.
And once again, Jesse Jackson had to add his .02 cents with his usual uneducated nonsense:
The defense made some good points today pointing out that even the prosecution's "expert" couldn't determine what order the shots occurred and whether the "fatal shot" was fired first, third or sixteenth, nor if it was fired while the offender was upright.
And once again, Jesse Jackson had to add his .02 cents with his usual uneducated nonsense:
- After listening to hours of graphic courtroom testimony and viewing dozens of autopsy photos of McDonald’s injuries, Jackson said he was struck by how intentional Van Dyke was when he opened fire.
“Each shot drew blood,” Jackson told reporters.
So now Jesse wants the police to indiscriminately spray gunfire at offenders, with lead flying all over the place, wounding innocent passersby - you know, like Jesse's congregants do.
Labels: events
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
125 Comments:
So far, the prosecution has not proven their case. I think Jason Van Dyke might walk.
Pray for Jason Van Dyke and his family.
Thanks for stating the obvious Jesse... seriously... hold up— did Jesse run for President back in 1984? People wondered how he lost to Raygun.
Jesse Jackson....possibly the most corrupt,racist, pandering thief this city has ever spawned. How black people ever listened to this shit for brains I will never know. Everything he did for his “people” ended up lining his own pockets at the expense of his people. They just never saw it. Never even got crumbs from this snake oil salesman. I keep waiting for black americans to wake up and lynch some of these hucksters. They will be much better off on their own.
“Each shot drew blood,” Jackson told reporters.
Ummm, it's SUPPOSED to! Drawing blood is the only thing that stops an attacker. Drawing it away from the brain through extra ventilation, and when enough of it's drawn away, the brain turns off and the attack stops.
Someone stands in front of me with a knife, completely fucked up out of their mind, they've stabbed some car tires, tried to stab other stuff, and won't drop the knife? You'd better believe they're getting extra ventilation until they're stopped.
But that only makes sense in non-libtard controlled locales. Here in the Bizarro World known as Chiraq/Crook County, well, you're SUPPOSED to miss when shooting at ole boy - you know, to just scare him a bit, and yell at him "I ain't fuckin' playin so drop that shit!", and then if he doesn't, you can "wing" him in the elbow or something...
With the evidence the prosecution has presented so far, Herbert should ask the judge for a directed verdict of acquittal
Just watched the opening statements on YouTube, if the jurors are honest, theres no way they can reach a guilty verdict.
Watched the opening statement, have to say, it me sick to listen to the state accuse a police officer of murder 8n a justifiable shoot. Everyone in that courtroom knows it was justified, and they are still willing to ruin this guys life all for politics. Dont trust these states attorneys, they are not your friend and they justbprov3d they have no sense of integrity.
JJ's people should give him a cookie and put him bed.
How has JJ escaped the women's me-too movement?
He said on an open microphone he wanted twist BO's nuts.
What did he really do with women?
“Each shot drew blood” Uh, yeah, cause it’s a bullet. Reminds me of that State Farm commercial with Jake, “Uh, yeah, cause she’s a guy”. Jesse, your race baiting days are over my friend, enjoy your remaining years and let the adults handle this one.
"(Jesse) Jackson said he was struck by how intentional Van Dyke was when he opened fire." "Each shot drew blood." "Legal lynching."
It's amazing that Jackson knows what Van Dyke's intent was in those split seconds. All pretty inflammatory talk from one of America's charlatans of the cloth, an intimidator and a shake down artist. Jackson's comments are meant to influence the jury even though he said them outside of court. Now the jurors are told not to listen or to read any outside sources pertaining to the trial. Now I don't know if this jury is sequestered but if they are they still talk to their families where they can get the news. The judge should put a gag order on Jackson. And Jackson has enough problems in his own family to be sticking his two cents into this trial.
And Laquan McDonald's great uncle the Reverend Marvin Hunter that has come into the picture making his comments. What did this "reverend" do for his troubled nephew in the past if anything? It appears none of his family did anything for him.
As unimpressive as Dan Herbert is, the prosecution is even less impressive. This can't be the best they got. If it is, the state is in worse shape than we thought. This is very quick for the prosecution. Some thing does seem odd about it...for now.
Dean Angelo spoke for the FOP on both the trial and Jon Burge at the same time . This is an opportunity that Deano to be seen and heard .He knows that he cannot make comments and is hurting one of our members . He doesn’t care ! Dean you lost the election so go home , get a haircut , shave and grab you shinebox. Keep your comments to yourself ! Quit the politics a police officer freedom is at stake !
Someone should have asked Jessie if he would have been willing to payout the lotto to any victims that the poor misguided honor student killed or maimed if he hadn't been killed???
Why the f**k was Jesse sitting on the defense side by JVD’s wife. Was it to make sure he was seen on camera?
Alvarez screwed up the charging?? McMahon obtained a superseding indictment. The case is charged exactly as he wants it charged-including 16 counts of Agg Batt with a Fireararm.
Sitting in court today i found myself scratching my head when Dan was questioning medical examiner. In my opinion Dan is doing poor job. Good luck JVD.
Did Jessie comment on the child and baby who caught one last night or was the shooter not white?
I am surprised but so far, the prosecution has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Van Dyke is guilty. They haven't shown which laws he broke. After this trial, I believe that the Illinois legislature will change the deadly use of force from the reasonable belief standard to necessary standard. California is going that way.
The ONLY reason Jackson shows up is to intimidate the jury. Unless your immediate family you should be banned from the courtoom...why is his stupid ass allowed in? All this asshole does is ALWAYS stick his nose where it doesnt belong. If there are TV cameras there you bet that hell be there to get his time.
It's in his interest to spin it this way. What else is he going to do other than chase the elusive "man", etc.
Did you expect anything less???
Fuck Jesse Jackson! and the lying media that sucks his ass! He is just like Dick Durbin if there is a TV camera he will be in front of it!
I said it on Sunday, the trial would take place with a jury seated and a mistrial would be called.
Again all the prosecution has is the officer shot the offender. 1 or 16 shots can not tell what ended the life of the offender.
Remember at the time of the incident he was a offender not a victim. And police are there to end the disturbance.
Not to be racialist. This was overcharging and it has been proven each day in court.
Even if convicted with a lesser charge the officer took action to stop the offender and that is why Police were called to the scene.
I want to see some premeditation, let alone failure to follow the law as a police officer in Illinois. Even cpd orders were not violated.
If the officer saw the threat and had to take action. There is no one on this planet that was there except for this officer and his partner.
The other officers allowed the offender to continue to cause a disturbance. Which just escalated the situation.
Sad but true there comes a time in any officers job where he has to make a split second decision to draw and use his weapon.
That is why we have officers armed in the USA. They are the first responders.
Monday morning quarterbacking is bad because it promotes less trust in the entire system.
Even worst is having a special prosecutor brought in to try to make a case against the officer. Which was a political move.
This just leads to more loss of trust and loss of control on the street.
You citizens need to decide. Do you want Officers to do the job or just sit in the car?
I called it mistrial and let’s do it again. All for politics.
PS. I think the judge has done a good job running shotgun over both sides. Get to the point of the question not the drama.
Jesse never met a camera he didn't like.
Does anyone actually care what Jesse J. says these days?
This is a simple case. It should not take real long to show a crime was committed and who committed it.
Even so, it is very hard to get any jury to convict a cop on a charge like this, even in really egregious cases, and this one is less problematic than some other cases where juries have been unwilling to convict a cop.
MAybe the ballistics expert will tell the jury that the brand of bullets are racist and by extension, so is JVD.
The Judge sure seems to be scolding attorney Dan Herbert more than the prosecution. Just my opinion but I think the prosecution is doing the better job. The medical examiner who was on the stand for 3+ hours was very professional and did an amazing job. Too bad PO's can't be as calm and collected as her on the witness stand.
I'm still not entirely sure why nobody has really pointed out what is obvious, at least to me, about the infamous video. Laquan is moving along the center yellow lines. Then starts moving diagonally to the right (let's call it 45 degrees). But when he gets to the white lane lines, his diagonal movement stops and he starts moving along those lines, which is effectively a 45 degree turn to the left.
So from Van Dyke's position, Laquan is moving perpendicularly past him, then takes a 45 degree turn in Van Dyke's direction before Van Dyke opened fire.
Or is it just me?
The prosecution is counting on the jury to find him guilty based upon fear of rioting. They believe they have this in the bag. I sure hope they are wrong.
Anonymous said...
“Each shot drew blood” Uh, yeah, cause it’s a bullet. Reminds me of that State Farm commercial with Jake, “Uh, yeah, cause she’s a guy”. Jesse, your race baiting days are over my friend, enjoy your remaining years and let the adults handle this one.
9/20/2018 01:51:00 AM
Bullets fired by The Police to stop a threat are racist
and unfair on top of being ouchy-hurty-stingy-bleedy...
Bullets fired at The Police by violent, death-loving
shit-heads?
"You Cops and your 'Warrior Mindset' are the problem.
You think way too much of yourselves and you always
talk that nasty, racist talk about 'going home in one
piece no matter what.' Do your jobs and stop being so
afraid of getting hurt or dying. Aren't you guys trained
for that? We pay you way too much money as it is. If you're
so afraid to do your jobs without hurting or shooting people
for no reason, just quit already and we can hire someone who
knows how to exercise the proper level of restraint without
being so aggressive."
Seriously... There are those who fully embrace
this ignorant, tone-deaf, rattle-mind nonsense.
And that's THE REASON why this consent decree is
deliberately chock full of corrosive progressive and
aggrieved peoples/folkses bullshit...
Preservation/Sanctity of Life.
(Except for The Police)
Police Restraint (to the point of suicide)
in the Use of Force.
A report every time The Police draw their weapon.
Cooking The Police in the additional administrative,
career, legal, civil and financial jackpot in order
to curtail lawfully promulgated (as directly spelled
out in the Illinois Criminal Code which SO MANY FEEL
ISN'T ACTUALLY VALID OR APPLICABLE in the Progressive
and Perpetually Aggrieved Demographics utopia, Chicago)
foot/vehicular pursuit and apprehension of armed/suspected
of being armed and of course dangerous individuals actively
and UNLAWFULLY FLEEING apprehension.
"Quit chasin' an' shootin' us when we do tha' fool!
Y'all know da witeman's law won't ever apply to US
so y'all might as well stop harassin' an' jennacidin' us!"
This consent decree is a cannon pointed in the wrong direction.
And when The Police have finally been "reformed" into submission,
the violence, willful ignorance, love of death/hatred of civil society
being manifested across vast swaths of the west and south sides (and is
spreading to peaceful, high tax paying, law abiding, formerly safe
areas of this city) will miraculously dissipate like a fart in the wind?
Not very likely.
"Y'all still holdin' out on givin'
US the rest of y'all money..."
But the violence WILL continue...
"Y'all actin' like y'all don't care about US!"
Upright, law abiding society cared to the tune
of BILLIONS locally and TRILLIONS nationally.
"We need more!"
Trying to satisfy the unsatisfiable
is a fatally flawed and ultimately
failed strategy.
"...the prosecution hasn't proven even the barest hint that racism played any part in this shooting..."
This question shows how much racial politics has infiltrated our thought processes and legal system. The question should actually not be directly relevant. Take an extreme example - the Grand Wizard of the KKK is approached by a black man pointing a gun announcing a robbery and threatening to kill him. As the robber gets closer, the Grand Wizard, a conceal carry holder, shoots and kills him. Now it may very well be true that if the robber had been white the Grand Wizard would have simply handed over his valuables. But that doesn't make what happened murder, and it doesn't suspend applicable laws pertaining to self defense. The fact should always remain, if you are under threat and in genuine fear for your life, you have the right to defend yourself, regardless of your racial views and attitudes.
A previous poster opined that the prosecutor inherited a shit case from AA that was a politically motivated prosecution. If he really believed this to be true, he should have dropped the charges. If a prosecutor has doubts about the merits of the case, and the guilt of a defendant, he should not bring the case to trial. .
A previous poster opined that the prosecutor inherited a shit case from AA that was a politically motivated prosecution. If he really believed this to be true, he should have dropped the charges. If a prosecutor has doubts about the merits of the case, and the guilt of a defendant, he should not bring the case to trial. A directed verdict is not out of the realm of possibility in this case.
I thought you were allowed to shoot someone in the back as they ran/walked away if they committed a forcable felony and attempted to escape by means of a deadly weapon (the knife). Why is this even a trial?
For a case that was hyped as trial of the century almost, it seems to be deflating.
The prosecution may be wrapped up at the end of the week. It's star witness was diminished. They Harper on unnecessary but established illegal or racist.
Which means that there wasn't much of a criminal case to begin with.
Now see what the defense has. Hopefully will put a lot of bosses on the hot seat.
Dan Herbert seems very unimpressive. He may win the trial but only because the state's attorney office is filled the political hacks who are scared of the court room.
Do this: When the riots and burning and looting begin (and we all know it is short at hand) leave it to the clouted and merits to lead the charge to restore order as only the chosen ones can. . .
When anyone starts criticizing the police reaction, all can point to the meriters and clouters as the ones to talk to about all of it.
9/19/2018 09:24:00 PM
Not gonna happen. Every white shirt will throw you under the bus so fast. You better have some pictures or dirt on one or more to save your a$$.
They took first degree murder off the table all ready so he won’t get that but I think they will find him on a lesser murder charge or agg batt but I also think if the defense puts up a good fight in this next week it might end up hung. I don’t see a full not guilty by all jurors. It’s gonna be hung.
So Jesse knew VanDykes intentions?
How the Hell can he do that?
Yes Jesse gunfire leads to gunshot wounds which do, in fact, draw blood.
Jesse you’re such a scholar.
Sounds like Jackson been hangin with the bangers too much, picking up bad habits Rev?
My 10B furlo is looking better and better. Remember shielding, distance and cover.
"(Jesse) Jackson said he was struck by how intentional Van Dyke was when he opened fire." "Each shot drew blood."
I'll take intentional shots that hit the target every day of the week. And twice on Saturday nights.
Half-considered shots that miss and end up
through a wall and into a sleeping baby's brainpan, well you don't see Jesse pushing his face on front of cameras to condemn those. No money and press in that.
Jesse was asleep the entire time in the courtroom. What a joke.
Den Angelo looked like a legit greasy used car salesman, no offense to used car salesmen.
Since everyhing here, shit city and crooked county, is politically infected, it seems not off topic to point to the Kass column, the one on Kanye for Mayor.
My eyes twinkled and my roscoe tingled at the thought that President Trump has slipped one right up the city/county grafters' asses.
Kass may be just foolin' with his column, but, that's what the usual muckraker's thought of Our President's entering the frey, these many moons ago.
The result:
Repubs, Schlonged.
Demos, Epically Schlonged. And begging, as we post, for never ending Schlongings.
Thus, why not a Mayor Kanye?
That would be Entertainment!!!!!!
Um, isn't JVD charged with Chapter 720 5/9-1. First degree Murder?? Has the prosecution even brought up any shred to try to show premeditation, or are they somehow only trying BS everyone that 16 shots is somehow on the order of Nazi Genocide??
You are taught to aim for the big part and keep firing till YOU think the threat is no longer a threat.
Where is the Premeditation??? This case was mischarged from the get go. It should have been a "No True Bill" from the Grand Jury.
This is an Obama Era case from the great divider.
Jesse Jackson is bff with phony Fioretti, the fake candidate. Fioretti actually thinks he will be the consensus mayoral candidate supported by people’s and folks. He’s a delusional, arrogant, con artist trying to raise campaign cash and not pay his bills. More to come soon.
Dean Angelo is not authorized by the FOP to speak to the press. He looks like a gypsy and is pretty much incoherent. To give an opinion on the ongoing trial of a copper to the media is a new low, even for Disability Dean. Someone at the Lodge should tell him to shut up!
...and again today as this trial has done all week, the monitor is left on with a still frame shot of McDonald in the street, despite testimony being given on another topic. And of course the illuminated monitor is facing the jury.
Too bad real murderers of real, innocent victims don’t get this extreme attention.
***
Retired, 30+
If JVD is found not guilty or hung jury, Mrs. O'Leary will be off the hook. Just saying. Word to the wise.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K9-1
If that’s all the prosecution has is a question on smoke puffs, then they’re done.
It may have even been their bombshell.
Cook County State Activism Office KimFxxUp sent her social justice team out to round up some noise.
There’s no courtroom drama inside so they call out to the paid street corner interrupters on the outside to spice it up.
Calling on the incoherent mush brained JJJSr as the lead-off man.
Who’s next up and who will be the closer?
Now that PrickWrinkle is announcing her mayoral candidacy, a lot more is riding on the case.
FucDat murdershit, now comes the social justice politics full blast.
Stay Fetal.
The answer is simple. If JVD acted within the guidelines of his training and the GO's, there is no murder.
Should have taken the bench trial just saying
Figure late next week or first week of October it’s in the jury’s hands?
Everything Jesse does is for Jesse!
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
In 0rder for each shot to draw blood, a person would have to be alive with heart pumping to BLEED.
Jesse just "testified" that in his stalwart opinion, McDonald was alive all the way through the final shot.
What a fool that old racialist is!
One is asking why Jesse sits near JVD. Jesse knows camera are unable to avoid his mug an d as such he wants to make sure there are pictures of Van Dyke he can get at through foia. Jesse gone git em sum trial photos for heeswall of fame. This one captioned "And this guy here is how I finally burned this bitch to the ground, think Ferguson"
To the "hung" point and it seeming like that is what the prosecutor is seeking.
Well DUH, that is the democrats playbook yall -STALL and DELAY.
What does hung jury get them? Oh yeah, it gets them ANOTHER violation of rights -it gets them both a mulligan to play this whole thing out AGAIN and it avoids them being handed a straight up loss on the merits.
Remember, they want the allegation for their narrative. They want ginned up voters pulling the (D) lever and the (R) docile and bowing, not fighting back. They like riots when they need to instill some fear, but at the same time, not even the SJWs want full out burn it to the ground to be widespread and out of their direct control.
A actual verdict one way or the other risks waaaaaaay toooooooo much either direction, but a hung jury gets them a double jeopardy and the neener neener of shredding the Constitution with impunity all while keeping the status quo agitation. They get the milk without buying the cow, and heck they get paid to do the milking also.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
As unimpressive as Dan Herbert is, the prosecution is even less impressive. This can't be the best they got. If it is, the state is in worse shape than we thought. This is very quick for the prosecution. Some thing does seem odd about it...for now.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s the best they could find for the prosecutor. Almost all the interviews with other attorney, they questioned the prosecutors case and especially the low keyed redirect questioning. Might be good idea for prosecution to wrap it up. VD will walk. Yes
Don't think the state proved its case.
FBI UOF "expert" a shill for #44.
Jesse is like Ward Cleaver no one ever knew what he did for a living? ♠️
jesse who mr baby daddy
king of bud
mr shakedown
the young black rabble rousers want nothing to do with that has been
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I thought you were allowed to shoot someone in the back as they ran/walked away if they committed a forcable felony and attempted to escape by means of a deadly weapon (the knife). Why is this even a trial?
9/20/2018 09:06:00 AM
Plus Laquan tried to stab a truck driver in the parking lot first Officer on scene should have shot him immediately!
"Alvarez screwed up the charging?? McMahon obtained a superseding indictment. The case is charged exactly as he wants it charged-including 16 counts of Agg Batt with a Fireararm."
Well, those were just pitched out the window. The M.E. (prosecution witness) said they didn't know which shot killed him, so it could have been #1 or #16. You can't have Agg Batt to a corpse.
Bam
It’s like this if the prosecution throws the case and the defense gets a direct verdict of not guilty or no direct verdict but Herbert thinks it’s a hands down hung jury at the least he may not call any police brass or Rahm that’s what this is all about saving face for the brass and Rahm.
Anonymous said...
If JVD is found not guilty or hung jury, Mrs. O'Leary will be off the hook. Just saying. Word to the wise.
9/20/2018 10:45:00 AM
Now, now the twerp Murder soon to be ex-mayor has stated time and time again "That's not us" so with that being said, I for one can sleep soundly knowing that no harm will come to the city or it's taxpayers...
nonymous said...
For a case that was hyped as trial of the century almost, it seems to be deflating.
The prosecution may be wrapped up at the end of the week. It's star witness was diminished. They Harper on unnecessary but established illegal or racist.
Which means that there wasn't much of a criminal case to begin with.
Now see what the defense has. Hopefully will put a lot of bosses on the hot seat.
9/20/2018 09:10:00 AM
I found the OJ Simpson trial much more riveting, this court room coverage is mickey mouse...
"Jesse is like Ward Cleaver no one ever knew what he did for a living?"
Ward Cleaver worked in a big office with Lumpy's dad, Fred Rutherford.
(Fred went on to produce the Allen Brady Show.)
You're probably thinking of Ozzie Nelson who didn't have a job.
JJ is a professional blabbermouth, pot stirrer. Totally worthless.
It would be fun to see his Income Tax forms.
Has anyone asked why the prosecution called in the retired officer who worked at the Medical examiners office who only inventoried bullet fragments that were sealed by the medical examiner?
But the Medical examiner who recovered the bullets and wrote the report was not forced to appear and testify. Instead the new Chief medical examiner testified about all the reports of this exam.
Ward Cleaver was a good man and father.
Just saying
As a retired officer I see that nothing has changed. Most of this topic of the trial is being focused on JJ and not JVD. Who cares about JJ. Move on and focus on the case and the facts of the case. The two uniformed officers that testified were terrible. The female couldn't keep her story straight and the male saying he wasn't in fear of the offender is ridiculous. The offender is swinging and slashing your tires and attempting to break out your windshield and you make that comment. They were coached by the prosecution and told what to say. Their testimony was a set up. I can only hope that the defense calls all the bosses who signed off on this as a good shooting. And have them explain why they reached that conclusion. As for Disability Dean your a goof. Your were a poor spokes person for the union while president and even worse as an observer. Go back to your teaching job professor as you like to be called. Your were a bonehead in gangs north and you still are. Nice look with the hair. STFU
What's the name of the crack head looking state attorney ????
Anonymous Anonymous said...
They took first degree murder off the table all ready so he won’t get that but I think they will find him on a lesser murder charge or agg batt but I also think if the defense puts up a good fight in this next week it might end up hung. I don’t see a full not guilty by all jurors. It’s gonna be hung.
9/20/2018 09:26:00 AM
Hung? Then the state will start over with a new trial & jury..... until they get a conviction or acquittal...drag it on thru the election.
Ask abc7 morning news why off duty p.o. security had to keep JJ away from Darah Languida (who headed the a.m. news desk) Way to many "me too" movement violations
Can we stop any further mention of that race hustler Jesse Jackson? He is a camera hog and will do anything to get his ugly mug on TV. Don't give him what he wants. He is obsolete and irrelevant. Treat him as such.
FBI UOF expert stated that the officers could have "bumped" the knife wielding offender with the squad car. So according to him, striking someone with a 6,000 lbs Tahoe was a feasible alternative? I couldn't believe the defense wasn't all over that one!
Are you insinuating the prosecution is purposely trying to drop the ball on this? Oh boy, this is not going to end up well
Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
STFU.
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
Actually you clouted useless hack - we were taught to "eliminate the threat" it's cute that this verbage has been removed from training. You apparently have less than 3 years on and are working in the training unit because you have done so much amazing police work! GFY
I'm still not entirely sure why nobody has really pointed out what is obvious, at least to me, about the infamous video. Laquan is moving along the center yellow lines. Then starts moving diagonally to the right (let's call it 45 degrees). But when he gets to the white lane lines, his diagonal movement stops and he starts moving along those lines, which is effectively a 45 degree turn to the left.
So from Van Dyke's position, Laquan is moving perpendicularly past him, then takes a 45 degree turn in Van Dyke's direction before Van Dyke opened fire.
Or is it just me?
9/20/2018 08:23:00 AM
Your eyes are correct ! Thats basically what witness, former officer Joseph Walsh was describing in his testimony tuesday.
Why did the Cook County Morgue women say cause of death was homicide??? To me this sounds prejudicial. Wasn't the cause of death blood loss?? And the reason the departed got shot because he was high on PCP robbing trucks and threatening people with a knife??
..mention of 3 inch blade like its inferior. Retired out of 007 . Had at least 3 instances where victims went to Bernard for many stitches. Once eyeball to base of neck,
. by box cutter one inch blade.
Anonymous said...
Ward Cleaver was a good man and father.
Just saying
9/20/2018 04:25:00 PM
His wife June said at times he was too rough on the Beaver !
The key to the JVD trial will be the jury instructions and hope that the jurors follow them.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
JVD defense should point to shit training with he ultimately relied upon; unfortunately— however to counter the argument; the prosecution will bring up shooting a person while they are on the ground. I am Just bringing this up because Alan Dershowitz said he would use this as a defense. But I agree; JVD is not going to get off— if you think he gets off; explain with a sound mind the justification for lighting a dude up with 16 shots
The thing withJJ is that you can’t understand his mumbojumbo and a translator should be at hand.
The Matlock moment, when the retired FBI use of force guy stated his opinion is that officer should not have fired his weapon but then admitted he wrote the 21 foot rule for immenant threat. And he further wrote that the action of the offender dictate the reply of any officer.
Thus if you pull a knife on any officer the offender must be prepared to face deadly force.
Defense should have further challenged the FBI firearms videos. Was this an experiment or demonstration?
They showed only 2 videos showing time to fire weapon. In bright daylight and fixed target with weapon drawn expecting buzzer.
Defense then pulled in 4th video showing slower video.
Shooters were professional shooters at rest
But none of the experiments truly copied the incident.
Video should have been done in darkness with street lighting and flashing police lights. To repeat time of incident.
With shooter not facing target but when buzzer goes off shooter turns and must fire on specific targets highlighted at time of buzzer.
This would have been a more realistic video showing what happens during a shot no shot scenario
Also defense has to stop the would you agree with me questions?
Do not ask a question you do not already know the answer to.
Jason Von Dyke did not "murder" anyone. He killed a troubled kid who nobody cared about and the family was thrilled to get the money and didn't even want the video released cause they didn't want all the leeches to know they had money. "They" never gave a fuck about this kid, neither the breeder or the sperm donor.
If he had decent parents who cared about him he'd probably be in college now or working a decent job, maybe he himself raising decent kids. Instead he got all fucked up high, chopped a squad car with a knife, and then refused to put it down while walking at a cop who feared for his life. If they find this kid guilty of murder then the entire Dept. should hit the medical and just leave these assholes to their own devices for a week or two.
Nor is it agg-Batt. Tyoe "knife wound pictures" into google and take a good look at what a knife can do to a person. "Taser's" and "bean bags"? Have they lost their fucking minds? I mean if it was me in that situation I'd have shot him too. The average copper has shit firearms training from the job. And he was scared, and who knows what I'd have done really? Paper targets and people are two different things.
We have good trainers who are sincere but like everything else on this job its a clout job which means we have some real mullet heads too and even the good ones have little to work with and provide far less then they would want to. 30 rounds a year is it? And so easy you can blow the bullets out your ass and qualify nor do we still have decent ranges. I wonder if any of this ever came out in the trial, that the city fails to give most of us adequate training?
Boy the Rahm and Eddie show really left this city in a shambles. Either way this goes it will be bad, don't any of you get hurt if and when the race baiters and gangsters get one of their riot's going.
Ward Cleaver was a good man and father.
Just saying
9/20/2018 04:25:00 PM
And that wife of his could talk jive like a mutha fucka!!!!!
Shit (oops) I had a black belt in verbal judo and now Im being told I can't use it.
Just curious if we all are watching the same coverage in total? If you are relying on the news for the clips to bash Herbert and his team? You are missing them poking holes in the prosecutions case but by bit. Someone said if that is the best the state has we have problems. Guess what genius they are Special Prosectors from another county. I hope they totally suck because this case should not even be in trial. We are 1/3 of the way through. Directed verdicts rarely to never happen so if you thought that was a possibility you need help. Defense starts Monday with their experts and witnesses. Herbert and his team have done a great job for their client during the Prosecutors portion of the trial. Now it’s their turn. Closing arguments and jury instruction are very pivotal. The biggest question and risk is does Jvd take the stand? I would say as it stands now I wouldn’t, but to prove he feared for the safe of himself and others he may want to. You may like Herbert or hate him but now is not the time to take cheap shots. Jvd needs our support and remember this last point. He chose Dan Herbert for a reason and for that we should all support his decision.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
Hey, genius. Have you ever heard of potential crossfire or maybe the other officers had collateral targets in their field of vision and that is why they didn't shoot. Just because one officer shoots, not all officers are justified in shooting. Geez you are f*ing idiot and you are teaching use of force. We are doomed. .
Just curious - most of us agreed from the beginning that JVD should have found himself the dream team defense. So why did JVD choose Dan Herbert as his attorney? Is Herbert doing this pro bono?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The Judge sure seems to be scolding attorney Dan Herbert more than the prosecution. Just my opinion but I think the prosecution is doing the better job. The medical examiner who was on the stand for 3+ hours was very professional and did an amazing job. Too bad PO's can't be as calm and collected as her on the witness stand.
9/20/2018 08:21:00 AM
Completely disagree with your assessment of her testimony. She became flustered several times, misread or misinterpreted the report of her colleagues and was called out on that during re-cross examination. She also admitted that the ME office frequently cuts and pastes on final reports. This was why it was evaluated in the final report that each and every gunshot caused the same type of damage. That is not possible in reality. One was only a graze wound to the head! She also testified that a report said that any of those shots were potentially fatal. Again on re-cross examination it was determined she did not read the report correctly and didn't understand simple grammar or punctuation which led to her confusion. The report said only 3 of the shots were potentially fatal. That was very damaging to the prosecution's case. She was unable to determine which shots were fatal and again became very flustered when asked to clarify.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just watched the opening statements on YouTube, if the jurors are honest, theres no way they can reach a guilty verdict.
9/20/2018 12:49:00 AM
You can say whatever you want in opening statements. You then have to prove what you said in opening statements during the trial. If you do that then I agree there is no way JVD is found guilty. The key here will be the video re-creation that Herbert said will depict the scenario from JVD's viewpoint. That should be very interesting. Demonstrative evidence at its best if it done right.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Has anyone asked why the prosecution called in the retired officer who worked at the Medical examiners office who only inventoried bullet fragments that were sealed by the medical examiner?
But the Medical examiner who recovered the bullets and wrote the report was not forced to appear and testify. Instead the new Chief medical examiner testified about all the reports of this exam.
9/20/2018 04:09:00 PM
The old ME has credibility issues so they put the new one on to testify as to his report. He was accused of cutting and pasting many many autopsies
When a professional race baiter becomes irrelevant in Chicago it's time to give it up. Jesse, even your own people and folks know you are on bullshit. Didn't share your extortion proceeds enough with all the other professional race profiteers. Good riddance.
The “eliminate the threat” response to the “clouted hack” 3 years in was SPOT ON. Any officer playing Monday morning quarterback on this is a total jagoff.
Anonymous said...
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
HE doesn't need to feel threatened. HE just needs to believe that this armed FLEEING FELON is a danger to the public. That's all you need to use deadly force by Illinois law, hence, he acted lawfully!
Who cares what Jackson said, he goes to the camera.
The real news is how bad the prosecution is. Next week will be an eye opener. JVD will walk or hung jury. At this point I don't see how 12 jurors can convict JVD of murder in the 1st beyond a reasonable doubt. NOT probably, NOT maybe, but beyond doubt. Then we'll see how the fine citizens react...
I'm waiting for, "The Marlins Guy" to show up. He's more relevant than Jesse Goofnuts.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If JVD is found not guilty or hung jury, Mrs. O'Leary will be off the hook. Just saying. Word to the wise
________
Is this poster insinuating that JVD is the cause of this city's demise? Or CPD? What an idiot...the left took Ms Oleary's bovine trophy away decades ago with their failed policies and complete lack of morals. The black community is to blame for their own problems. No-one has keep them down more than the people within their midst keeping them in a perpetual victim state...time to wake up and realize you've been lied to...time to walk away from the democrat plantation...
Did anyone catch a flaw in the last witness (Torres) testimony? The defense didn't. At one point Torres said that he was focused on McDonald during the entire shooting. At another point he said that he was so scared that he reversed his vehicle. The defense never asked how Torres managed to reverse a vehicle on Pulaski ave, without even glancing at his mirrors? If he did, that would mean he did not see the entire event?
Anonymous said...
Um, isn't JVD charged with Chapter 720 5/9-1. First degree Murder?? Has the prosecution even brought up any shred to try to show premeditation, or are they somehow only trying BS everyone that 16 shots is somehow on the order of Nazi Genocide??
You are taught to aim for the big part and keep firing till YOU think the threat is no longer a threat.
Where is the Premeditation??? This case was mischarged from the get go. It should have been a "No True Bill" from the Grand Jury.
_____________
Are you for real? Are you a police officer? If so you are a moron. In what state do you live? Can't be Illinois. Premeditation is not a requirement for first degree murder in Illinois! Go read a statute book. No wonder this city is full of idiot coppers. Don't even know the damn laws!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Did anyone catch a flaw in the last witness (Torres) testimony? The defense didn't. At one point Torres said that he was focused on McDonald during the entire shooting. At another point he said that he was so scared that he reversed his vehicle. The defense never asked how Torres managed to reverse a vehicle on Pulaski ave, without even glancing at his mirrors? If he did, that would mean he did not see the entire event?
9/20/2018 10:39:00 PM
He was the passenger in the car. HIs father was driving so he didn't need to glance at his mirrors.
Anonymous said...
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
You would be right...if people were machines and the law assessed shootings in hindsight 20/20. But none of that is true. So as you teach use of force, at any time do you factor human psychology? There's no legitimate policeman out there who would say something as stupid as this. Training is only preparation for the real thing. Nothing can substitute a real shooting.
Anonymous said...
Just curious if we all are watching the same coverage in total? If you are relying on the news for the clips to bash Herbert and his team? You are missing them poking holes in the prosecutions case but by bit. Someone said if that is the best the state has we have problems. Guess what genius they are Special Prosectors from another county. I hope they totally suck because this case should not even be in trial.
--------
Do you understand "the state" means the state of Illinois, of which these special prosecutors from another county are part of, genius?
I was surprised at how many folks with half a brain will tell you Jesse is a POS.
Anonymous said...
Did anyone catch a flaw in the last witness (Torres) testimony? The defense didn't. At one point Torres said that he was focused on McDonald during the entire shooting. At another point he said that he was so scared that he reversed his vehicle. The defense never asked how Torres managed to reverse a vehicle on Pulaski ave, without even glancing at his mirrors? If he did, that would mean he did not see the entire event?
9/20/2018 10:39:00 PM
He may be a police hater but I think his testimony was ok being a citizen caught up witnessing an incident like this regardless of the defense attorney trying to confuse him with the number of cars and which way they were facing and coming from. If I were a citizen I wouldn’t be keeping taps on the cars, my focus would be on the shithead. I don’t think he said he was scared or maybe he did. I remember him saying he reversed because he thought he was “too close” to what was happening. Clearly the defense atty was trying to get him to say something about the cars that didn’t match the video which would have trashed his whole testimony. That’s my 2 cents.
all officers felt threatened thats why they remained in squad car waiting for assistance and did not attemt to confront the person with a knife
Anonymous said...
"Alvarez screwed up the charging?? McMahon obtained a superseding indictment. The case is charged exactly as he wants it charged-including 16 counts of Agg Batt with a Fireararm."
Well, those were just pitched out the window. The M.E. (prosecution witness) said they didn't know which shot killed him, so it could have been #1 or #16. You can't have Agg Batt to a corpse.
Bam
9/20/2018 03:16:00 PM Blood loss was the cause of death moron.....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Did anyone catch a flaw in the last witness (Torres) testimony? The defense didn't. At one point Torres said that he was focused on McDonald during the entire shooting. At another point he said that he was so scared that he reversed his vehicle. The defense never asked how Torres managed to reverse a vehicle on Pulaski ave, without even glancing at his mirrors? If he did, that would mean he did not see the entire event?
9/20/2018 10:39:00 PM
Torres never said he was so scared. He said he was too close to what was happening. I just watched his testimony. I have backed up my car without looking back. It’s not like there was a stream of cars at that hour especially considering how many squad cars were on that location. Go back to sleep Sherlock.
I completely agree with Unknown's post at 09:33. Any copper that is second guessing JVD's actions that night isn't even a pimple on a good cops ass.
In teaching use of force as a cop, firing 16 shots in this scenario can be viewed as excessive. Why was he the only officer to be "threatened" by the bad guy. Why didn't other officers open up as well? You teach to STOP the aggressor and evaluate, not to empty your gun and then figure it out. The best defense by Van Dyke would be to testify that he got scared and overreacted. Maybe he can salvage a reckless conduct conviction. Ladies and gentleman, there is no way he is going to walk on this.
9/20/2018 12:30:00 PM
You googled the key words, got the wiki page, clicked the link, read the page, mustered your inner genious and composed this paragraph of composted pidgeon droppings, submitted this blob of bird shit to SCC, and...... Got posted!!!!
Now, why, brainiac, do you think SCC put your post up, for all to peruse?
Hmmmmmmmmm..........(Jeopardy theme playing softly)
9/20/2018 10:39:00 PM
Torres never said he was so scared. He said he was too close to what was happening. I just watched his testimony. I have backed up my car without looking back. It’s not like there was a stream of cars at that hour especially considering how many squad cars were on that location. Go back to sleep Sherlock.
Wow, it was a question, not Shakespeare. I guess we know who's side you're on, Ms Foxx.
Old retired wheel gunner here. I personally never switched over from my .38 Ruger because when I did buy a S/W auto. I never felt comfortable because it was just to easy to shoot.
I started with just a speed strip in a drop pouch b4 speed loaders. Personally, never felt comfortable with a 16 shot semi auto. To easy to keep shooting and I honestly feel that it was happened.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The Judge sure seems to be scolding attorney Dan Herbert more than the prosecution. Just my opinion but I think the prosecution is doing the better job. The medical examiner who was on the stand for 3+ hours was very professional and did an amazing job. Too bad PO's can't be as calm and collected as her on the witness stand.
9/20/2018 08:21:00 AM
The CPD has NO training on testifying in court.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
As a retired officer I see that nothing has changed. Most of this topic of the trial is being focused on JJ and not JVD. Who cares about JJ. Move on and focus on the case and the facts of the case. The two uniformed officers that testified were terrible. The female couldn't keep her story straight and the male saying he wasn't in fear of the offender is ridiculous. The offender is swinging and slashing your tires and attempting to break out your windshield and you make that comment. They were coached by the prosecution and told what to say. Their testimony was a set up. I can only hope that the defense calls all the bosses who signed off on this as a good shooting. And have them explain why they reached that conclusion. As for Disability Dean your a goof. Your were a poor spokes person for the union while president and even worse as an observer. Go back to your teaching job professor as you like to be called. Your were a bonehead in gangs north and you still are. Nice look with the hair. STFU
9/20/2018 04:32:00 PM
Both those PO's should be fired for cowardice.
Command material, both of them.
9/22/2018 12:18:00 AM
Damn, I feel really fucking old now. I remember using the old speed strips also. Not that there was any "speed" in using those fucking things..
9/20/2018 03:16:00 PM Blood loss was the cause of death moron.....
9/21/2018 12:43:00 PM
Before you call another poster a moron you might want to listen to the testimony of the ME. Cause of death was multiple gunshot wounds and the manner of death was a homicide. Now who is the moron?? BLood loss is not a cause of death and never has been. If you suffer a nose bleed you suffer blood loss.Now who is the moron?? Go back to watching tv for your expertise
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Old retired wheel gunner here. I personally never switched over from my .38 Ruger because when I did buy a S/W auto. I never felt comfortable because it was just to easy to shoot.
I started with just a speed strip in a drop pouch b4 speed loaders. Personally, never felt comfortable with a 16 shot semi auto. To easy to keep shooting and I honestly feel that it was happened.
9/22/2018 12:18:00 AM
Leave your comment
To easy to keep shooting? It’s not fully automatic, it’s semi. You have to pull the trigger each time you file a shot. Prosecution had a shooter do just as you said and it took him 4-5 seconds. Then they showed it took VD 12 seconds to fire the shots after McD fell
Just stating what was said in court. I believe VD was justified and it really legally doesn’t matter the number of shots fired. Also was said in court if VD was justified to shoot McD the number of shots didn’t matter. Also Herbert tried to show McD was dead after the first two shors
Anonymous Anonymous said...
all officers felt threatened thats why they remained in squad car waiting for assistance and did not attemt to confront the person with a knife
9/21/2018 11:13:00 AM
Why are you commenting on a case you obviously know nothing about and have not watched the trial? All officers did not remain in their cars. One officer from 008 exited his car(he was the passenger ) and followed McDonald at a distance of approx 15 feet for over three blocks. When asked why he didn’t shoot, he said he didn’t feel threatened by McD
It just appears a little suspect that all other officers were waiting for the taser car which was on the way. One minute away from when the shooting started, but JVD and his partner decided to drive past the shithead and get out of their car to confront him. You couldn’t wait for one more minute. One minute of patience and we wouldn’t be here.
.....You couldn’t wait for one more minute. One minute of patience and we wouldn’t be here.
9/23/2018 09:19:00 AM
What is with this "we" you speak of?
Even for the second guesser cabal, you stand out as glaringly assinine.
If only you'd crossed your legs, real tight, and didn't lose focus, you'd not have pissed your panties. That damn bell between periods just took too long to ring!!!!!
Infant.
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