Trial Break
The defense opens up on Monday.
We'd certainly like to see their witness lists. We hope it includes every single exempt who signed off on the shoot as "justified" along with the names of every individual who pressured them to alter their findings (we're looking at you 9.5).
The defense scored a few minor points and the prosecution seemed awfully thin, resorting to cheap theatrics by keeping the video monitor with the still picture of the deceased in view of the jury at all times. No idea why that wasn't expressly forbidden by the judge.
We'd certainly like to see their witness lists. We hope it includes every single exempt who signed off on the shoot as "justified" along with the names of every individual who pressured them to alter their findings (we're looking at you 9.5).
The defense scored a few minor points and the prosecution seemed awfully thin, resorting to cheap theatrics by keeping the video monitor with the still picture of the deceased in view of the jury at all times. No idea why that wasn't expressly forbidden by the judge.
Labels: events
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
70 Comments:
If Ram or Kidney Bean got a notice to appear... would the media be all over that? Honest, I prefer they go up and explain why it was a good shoot in their own words
Kidney Bean might pass out on the stand... might be at loss of words given he has no script to read off on.
Hey Kidney, I am still waiting on that town hall meeting
The screen left on facing the jury most certainly should not have been allowed. That can unfairly affect jurors. Why would defense not object to that ?
The defense should call every single boss involved. A bladed weapon expect too. They should let the jury read our GOs and state law. They better call the person who called 911 on McDonald. Do not hold back. This case is already a great appeal case. The jury is scared and now Jesse Jackson is intimidating the jury. This clown has zero connection to the family. Not cool with his fake theatrics. He should have been escorted out. All lovey dovey with a family member he never knew in front of the jury. The jury knows he can incite people to target them. Should have been a change of venue and no Jesse allowed
Hope for rain late next week?
Current exempts signed off on it, not only the ones forced to retire.
Should be interesting to see Johnson get on the stand.
Thursday showed why Herbert was WISE in his choice of a jury rather than bench trial. The Prosecution's witnesses were again unable to make the case a slam-dunk. The Use of Force witness,a retired FBI agent, appeared to be unaware of McDonald's actions prior to the actual action captured on the video. The Latino Concerned Citizen witness was clearly ignorant and a police hater. Herbert moved for a Directed Verdict, basically stating that the State failed to prove their case, but the judge declined. The failure of the judge to toss the case, but instead leave it to a jury, clearly showed that this judge would have hammered the defense, if this had been a Bench Trial. The judge's failure to acknowledge that the Prosecution had failed to prove its case clearly shows how political this case has been, from day one. THE WHOLE CASE HINGES ON A LAYMAN'S PERCEPTIONS OF THE VIDEO AND WHEN THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS APPROPRIATE. Remember, the public bases their perception of Use of Force upon "Entertainment", TV and Movies. And in the Code of the West, The Good Cowboy, wearing the white hat, never shoots, until the Bad Guy draws first or shoots first! And no cowboy hero would ever shoot a man armed ONLY with a knife! Instead, Good Guys wrestle the knife from the Bad Guy! So, now we will see, if Herbert brings in some more credible Use of Force experts; like say the present and former Superintendents of the Chicago Police Department, both of whom saw, the video within hours of the incident and failed to prosecute or discipline VanDyke for his actions. LET MCCARTHY AND FATHEAD ED EXPLAIN WHY THIS SHOOTING WAS FINE, AND VANDYKE REMAINED ON THE PAYROLL UNTIL THE VIDEO WAS FORCED OUT OF HIDING, AFTER THE ELECTION. SURELY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENTS CARRIES MORE WEIGHT THAN ONE RETIRED FBI AGENT. Rahm callously tossed VanDyke and the entire Chicago Police Department under the bus to maintain Political Survival. And now that he is officially Political Dead Meat, he has decided to destroy CPD for generations to come. If there is any possibility of justice, it would be seeing Rahm, stuttering and stammering, like Daley does when put under oath. Stay Safe, and Strong. Baby "G"
Minor points?? Did u not see how Herbert destroyed the states use of force witness today?????
Im not a cop. Im not involved in law at all. I understand though that for this to be first degree murder, JVD had to intend to kill LM as soon as the call came in. Otherwise, there was obviously not a plan to kill the grad. First degree = pre meditated. Easy.
Good luck VD in Chicago the truth is sacrificed to the law of The Chicago way and that law rules supreme.
Baby G, your 5th watch roll calls were priceless!
You notice what was missing from the prosecutors case?
ANY LEGAL DEFINITION OF MURDER. He never once explained to the juror the charges, and how JVD should be guilty of murder. It was purely a play on their emotions, as what happens during most jury trials.
I wasn’t impressed at all.
Anyone know who the jury consultants are for the prosecution and defense?
I was in court room today scratching my head when Dan was questioning use of force expert.I believe the jury listened and agreed with expert that deadly force was unnecessary. The jury heads went up and down agreeing with expert. I don't feel good at all with JVD attorneys.
I'll say prayer for JVD.
I have watched the live events as they unfold in court. I have also watched as much of the news that has come out after. The news media is so biased in what they communicate and show to the audience. I have watched time and time again the defense blow up the witnesses on the stand in cross. I never see that on the news. The use of force expert for example was asked by the defense if his opinion would change if he knew that LM attempted to stab the truck driver in the yard that started the events. He said he was not told about that key point and if it happened would indicate that offender was committing a felony. The prosecution withheld key evidence from their own expert to get an opinion that was absent key fact in the use of force defense. That is a huge win for jvd. The ME the day before was shown to have no credibility for allowing her pathologist to just cut and paste the same language for every gun shot. The video expert was disqualified for presenting evidence on the puffs of smoke that we outside of his expertise. This was done by the defense team and again the prosecution witness loses credibility with the Jury. The last witness Flores is clearly a police hater and when questioned about his line of sight got angry and the jury saw him for what he is. That same witness said that he say 2 squad cars and had an unobstructed view of LM. Impossible. He was over 100 feet away at night. 1 squad facing north, jvd squad on an angle across his line of site and imagine this another squad pulling up on video that would have further blocked his line of sight. The prosecutions case is thin and their witnesses are impeached time and time on the record. The defense team is doing a great job so far. Once a jury loses credibility with a witness it is hard for them to regain the trust. This has happened multiple times for the prosecution. My favorite line from trial was Herbert asking use of force expert about an armed offender with a knife being within 21 feet as a eminent threat to the officer. He said LM was not a threat, but when asked if he agreed with the statement he changed his tune. Primarily because Herbert was quoting from a book on use of force and stating you are the author of those words. Dont watch the news and formulate your opinion. You will not get the full picture. You have to watch the trial and see for yourself. This is truly the definition of Fake News.
The Use of Force is written on a fucking chart...how does someone say they are an EXPERT in the "Use of Force"? We were all trained and understand the levels and force to which they are met...so for someone to say they are an expert is bullshit. I love how the idiot didn't know ANY of the incidents which led up to the shooting.....I saw prosecution with a tail between their legs when the knife wielding moron tried to already stab a citizen came out in court. I hope the defense brings on their own "EXPERTS" on the use of Force. The prosecution left out a lot of important details which im sure will all be let out the box sort of speak.
By the way, did anyone check and see if Mr. Torres, the Latino witness has a background? I would be willing to bet he does! Police Hater all across his forehead.
Good luck JVD. Pray for you and your family every single day.
I heard that the judge "strongly recommended" a jury trial to the defense.
I hope the defense recalls the ME and asks her to define the parameters used in calling a death a homicide for ME purposes and then shows the difference between a homicide and a murder
Please stop. No white shirt ever gets called on the rug for their actions.
Supt. Fenner and the majority of the gold stars who could be called would have to be driven to court as very few of them have ever been there and probably don't know where it is located.
The prosecution put up a week case. Herbert is doing way better than we expected. Policy at the time and law means nothing. All this really means nothing. The black community wants JVD to hang. No jury will stand in the way of that. Jesse got in there and sent the message. Ultimately it is JVD's fault for showing up to work that day.
Well, I will tell you that if Jesse Jackson showed up for any length of time, he's been paid something. LMcD family must have given him some $$$ to sit in the courtroom.
Jesse does NOTHING for free.
"...stuttering and stammering, like Daley does when put under oath."
Or even when he's not put under oath.
It was not a wise choice to go with a jury. The prosecutor has put on a very poor case and any judge would have no choice but to find van dyke not guilty. If the judge didn't, van dyke would for sure win an appeal. With a jury, race and emotion play a big role along with life experiences and not understanding the law. the problem the defense has with yesterdays testimony was when the ballistic expert showed the video of the man taking his time to shoot 16 rounds in 14 seconds. That video burns the image of van dyke standing over the dead offender and slowly pumping 16 rounds into him. The judge would have dismissed the video as a demonstration but a jury might think it was fact.
The jury was instructed to not watch the news. I hope they do so they can see how stilted and distorted the media has been! Watch, if JVD is acquitted and there are riots, the media will blame Herbert, the jury, the judge, everyone but the rioters.
Anonymous said...
Minor points?? Did u not see how Herbert destroyed the states use of force witness today?????
9/21/2018 04:36:00 AM
I have to agree....When the "expert" said that one option they had was to "bump him with their car to knock him down"........enough said.
I sure hope they call FatHeadEd and his other exempts that did not have any problem with this shoot...... until the political winds started to blow and they were under extreme pressure to reverse course.
Stay safe!
The State's case was very weak.
The problem is that the jury will only see prosecution wins on the biased news until Monday. That's what they'll remember. I don't care what they say, they will watch the news, talk to people who watched the news, and use that to help make their minds up. With any luck, somebody will mention that they saw something on the news, and a good Samaritan will tell the judge. Happened on a civil case I was on.
I can only hope that some of the exempts are called to testify. For example, the director of training, Calloway. Let him explain the use of force model and the training officers receive. Then Johnson can explain why he signed off on the reports. The entire command staff approved his actions right after the incident. Hold them accountable only if this will help the defense.
LET MCCARTHY AND FATHEAD ED EXPLAIN WHY THIS SHOOTING WAS FINE, AND VANDYKE REMAINED ON THE PAYROLL UNTIL THE VIDEO WAS FORCED OUT OF HIDING, AFTER THE ELECTION. SURELY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENTS CARRIES MORE WEIGHT THAN ONE RETIRED FBI AGENT. Rahm callously tossed VanDyke and the entire Chicago Police Department under the bus to maintain Political Survival. And now that he is officially Political Dead Meat, he has decided to destroy CPD for generations to come. If there is any possibility of justice, it would be seeing Rahm, stuttering and stammering, like Daley does when put under oath. Stay Safe, and Strong. Baby "G"
9/21/2018 04:21:00 AM
Agree with it or not, like him or not, McCarthy ever said this was a good shooting. He stripped JVD the next day after seeing the video and referred the incident to IPRA. How would putting McCarthy on the stand help JVD?
Anonymous said...
Im not a cop. Im not involved in law at all. I understand though that for this to be first degree murder, JVD had to intend to kill LM as soon as the call came in. Otherwise, there was obviously not a plan to kill the grad. First degree = pre meditated. Easy.
9/21/2018 04:39:00 AM
Well it's obvious that you fail to believe blm,libtards and the media: that all cops are inherently racist so every call they respond to killing a minority is always their intent and priority...
Special Ed or 9.5 on the stand? Are you kidding? That little cocksucker 9.5 would just keep repeating "I don't recall" to everything the defense asked. And you know he'd do it with a stupid smirk he'd get on his face. Such a slime ball. Such a sleaze bag.
Anonymous said...
The screen left on facing the jury most certainly should not have been allowed. That can unfairly affect jurors. Why would defense not object to that ?
9/21/2018 12:45:00 AM
Perhaps a grounds for an appeal to a higher court...
Im pretty sure a pre-trial motion is prohibiting the defense from calling any of those bosses who based their decision on Department policy.
Anonymous said...
Current exempts signed off on it, not only the ones forced to retire.
9/21/2018 01:42:00 AM
Are all of the supervisors and exempts that signed off on this investigation merit hacks and just went along with the crowd in fear of having their merit card pulled?
If LM was killed by the first shot, do the other 15 really matter? The media continually hypes the fact that 16 shots were fired and perhaps that's indicative or extreme fear or poor judgement. But legally, does 1 or 16 make a difference? Is it illegal to shoot a dead body?
He will be convicted of lesser charges. Like 6 out of 16 counts of Agg Bat with a Firearm and official Misconduct which shows how thin the prosecution is. Van Dyke will win in appeal down the road
None of the back and forth squabbling matters. What this trial will come down to is the black juror. If this juror finds Van Dyke guilty as I imagine she would in any case. she will not fear retaliation from her own community. If she were to find him innocent, she could never go home once her name was released.
The other jurors are weighed down with the burden that if he is released, all hell will break loose in the city and they too, will suffer from fear of retaliation.
These are the types of things that motivate jurors one way or the other.
I have sat on a jury as foreman and its amazing how quickly people rush to judgement with little or no discussion. In my case (kidnapping, unlawful restraint, drug dealing...) the jurors were ready to vote in ten minutes because they wanted to get home to watch television. I shook my head and demanded we discuss the case for a time.
If I were a betting man, I would say that he will be convicted...maybe not of murder, but of a lesser charge should the judge allow it. Not because I believe him to be guilty, but the jurors will weigh their own future lives after this case and their safety as well as that of their families. They will also be burdened with the fact that if the city goes up in flames...they will see themselves as the cause.
Not an enviable position to be in.
copper testified he didn't feel threatened , BS
he had his gun out and was afraid to confront the person that coomitted aggravated assault , vehicular burglary
this will all come out monday
when defense call witnesses
JVD was in front of offenderswinging a knife , disregarding verbal commands to drop knife
As "Baby G" said...."Thursday showed why Herbert was WISE in his choice of a jury rather than bench trial. The Prosecution's witnesses were again unable to make the case a slam-dunk"
*The FBI "expert" acknowledged that the video DID NOT capture the entire event
*HE also acknowledged that he could never know what the officer felt at the time
*He quoted the 21ft rule in his book
Therefore, the "expert" established reasonable doubt for a conviction
Lots riding on this one for Pugwrinkle and KimmFxxxup.
Win or lose they will have either an answer or an excuse.
A conviction means a platform to campaign on and to rile up the lawless idiot community.
Losing won’t be about their shoddy presentation, no evidence, inexperience and basic law knowledge but the lack of courtroom diversitay.
This trial that has more riding on their political advancement and pending civil destruction than anything else.
Democrats.
I hate these people.
Heard the judge ruled no boss can be asked why they deemed the shooting justifiied...unreal CROOK COUNTY
The defense should call then Superintendent of Police, every exempt member who signed off on the shooting including the now superintendent. Here is another suggestion of one they should call, the original investigators from IPRA. Not the supervisors but the original investigators who where called to the scene of this incident. The original investigators, who were part of the rapid response shooting team, went out to the scene and began IPRA"s initial investigation. The original investigators who responded that night have investigated dozens of police related shootings and from my understanding thought the shooting that night was a good shooting. They should also get the original GPRs from their case file. This is why many of the department brass that night signed off that night that it was justified.
Need help here. Ex the murder charge JB s faces
16 counts of agg battery ( one each shot )
Haven’t we all seen instances where victims shot
Multiple times and perp faces much less charges than jvd ? Ie not one
Per shot
I hope Herbert calls Sergeant L.S. as their use of force expert. Wait until the jury sees a highly-qualified expert witness on use of force who is articulate, fit, and intelligent and who just happens to be Black testify to what and how JVD was trained on at the Academy. I'd pay to be a fly on the wall watching the jurors faces for that.
Bring the Truck Driver who made the call that Laquan tried to stab!
Could the Defense call someone with the credibility of, say, a Michael Janich up? He is an expert in edged blade weapons and defense and writes for the USCCA magazine. You cant tell me someone like HIM coudnt articulate succintlely the Tueller Drill and the approiateness of it to this trial? My god, he isn't that hard to contact and he is an expert.
I just finished window shopping along North Michigan Ave today.
Doubt that the exempt personnel that signed off on the shooting as having relevant testimony in the trial.
The said the shooting was good from a Department policy viewpoint, not as a matter of criminal law.
The Police Board heard is another matter.
And it would be interesting to hear why they felt it was a justified shooting.
Will they examine the clouted sgt that was there who is hiding in 024 untouched?
Call former Deputy McNaughton
(allowed to resign with his pension, ahead of the investigation)
Can anybody confirm the rumor that he turned States Witness to save his own a**?
Kane County Board Chair Takes Issue With Cost Of Prosecutor Handling Van Dyke Case
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/09/21/jason-van-dyke-murder-trial-costs-kane-county-joseph-mcmahon-chris-lauzen/
Call former Deputy McNaughton
(allowed to resign with his pension, ahead of the investigation)
Can anybody confirm the rumor that he turned States Witness to save his own a**?
9/22/2018 03:38:00 AM
So did he testify for the State? Rumor confirmed dumb ass.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Call former Deputy McNaughton
(allowed to resign with his pension, ahead of the investigation)
Can anybody confirm the rumor that he turned States Witness to save his own a**?
9/22/2018 03:38:00 AM
The state has rested its case and McNaughton DID NOT testify. You have a bad source for your rumor
Anonymous said...
Doubt that the exempt personnel that signed off on the shooting as having relevant testimony in the trial.
The said the shooting was good from a Department policy viewpoint, not as a matter of criminal law.
The Police Board heard is another matter.
And it would be interesting to hear why they felt it was a justified shooting.
9/22/2018 12:10:00 AM
If the shooting was good from a department policy viewpoint, it would be could according to state law as the department policy is more restrictive than state law. Maybe you should read both sometime
It was not a wise choice to go with a jury. The prosecutor has put on a very poor case and any judge would have no choice but to find van dyke not guilty. If the judge didn't, van dyke would for sure win an appeal. With a jury, race and emotion play a big role along with life experiences and not understanding the law. the problem the defense has with yesterdays testimony was when the ballistic expert showed the video of the man taking his time to shoot 16 rounds in 14 seconds. That video burns the image of van dyke standing over the dead offender and slowly pumping 16 rounds into him. The judge would have dismissed the video as a demonstration but a jury might think it was fact.
9/21/2018 08:16:00 AM
What video did you watch. I never saw any video that showed Van Dyke "standing over McDonald pumping rounds into him". Van Dyke did not come within 15 feet of him until he stopped shooting and moved to kick the knife from his hand.
Anonymous said...
I hope the defense recalls the ME and asks her to define the parameters used in calling a death a homicide for ME purposes and then shows the difference between a homicide and a murder
9/21/2018 07:38:00 AM
There is NO difference between a homicide or a murder. I think what you might be trying to say is there is a difference between homicide and justifiable homicide.
Let us continue to pray for Jason! He deserves a fair trial; he has been condemned by the ignorant outspoken.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bring the Truck Driver who made the call that Laquan tried to stab!
9/21/2018 06:51:00 PM
I’m sure he will be called. But he made the call stating he was holding a person who stole from a truck. Herbert said McDonald tried to stab him in the opening argument.
Im not a cop. Im not involved in law at all. I understand though that for this to be first degree murder, JVD had to intend to kill LM as soon as the call came in. Otherwise, there was obviously not a plan to kill the grad. First degree = pre meditated. Easy.
True is some states but Illinois does NOT require premeditation but nice thought
I hope the defense recalls the ME and asks her to define the parameters used in calling a death a homicide for ME purposes and then shows the difference between a homicide and a murder
I totally agree Defense should have had the ME explain that all homicide are not criminal and that there are justifiable homicides
Most people think murder when they hear the word homicide. I hope the defense recall her and has HER explain that fact
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
The screen left on facing the jury most certainly should not have been allowed. That can unfairly affect jurors. Why would defense not object to that ?
9/21/2018 12:45:00 AM
Perhaps a grounds for an appeal to a higher court...
Not sure about the appeal. Judge Gaughan is not a dummy and if he thought it might be a grounds for appeal he would have had them turn it off or around. Judges do not like to be overturned on appeal and especially on a high profile case
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I hope Herbert calls Sergeant L.S. as their use of force expert. Wait until the jury sees a highly-qualified expert witness on use of force who is articulate, fit, and intelligent and who just happens to be Black testify to what and how JVD was trained on at the Academy. I'd pay to be a fly on the wall watching the jurors faces for that.
9/21/2018 05:49:00 PM
Not sure he will call LS. I was watching a program and they mentioned a few use of force experts he was going to call and didn’t hear LS
LS would be a great witness, but my guess would be he wants an expert witness with national recognition to make it appear he is independent. A fellow CPD officer might not appear to be independent to a jury
As far as putting an exempt on to explain why they ruled the shooting justifiable would probably be a good idea.
The chain of events reads this way: 1j Miss Kim overcharged because she had to. 2) Mr Rahm knew he couldn’t win 3). Miss Toni will “heal” the city after all matters of shit break out.
I have to agree....When the "expert" said that one option they had was to "bump him with their car to knock him down"........enough said.
9/21/2018 08:23:00 AM
That was something that I shook my head at. He was testifying about following law and procedure. I don’t think we are authorized to bump people with our cars as a force option.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
I hope the defense recalls the ME and asks her to define the parameters used in calling a death a homicide for ME purposes and then shows the difference between a homicide and a murder
9/21/2018 07:38:00 AM
There is NO difference between a homicide or a murder. I think what you might be trying to say is there is a difference between homicide and justifiable homicide.
9/22/2018 09:59:00 AM
All murders are homicides. Not all homicides are murders.
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