Texas Justice Prevails
A Harris County grand jury on Monday ended the rancorous seven-month debate over Pasadena resident Joe Horn's decision to gun down two illegal immigrant burglars in his front yard, concluding the act was a justifiable use of deadly force and not murder.
The grand jury heard two weeks of testimony from witnesses, including Horn. They likely also heard his breathless 911 call, during which the increasingly frustrated retiree ignored a dispatcher's pleas to stay inside and out of harm's way. The Nov. 14 call ended with the sound of Horn racking a shell into his 12-gauge shotgun's chamber followed by three gunshots that killed Colombians Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.
Each man was shot in the back. They had taken about $2,000 in the burglary.
Horn's defense hinged on his assertion that he fired out of fear for his life, making the shooting justifiable under Texas law. The law also permits the use of deadly force to protect property under some circumstances.
We can almost understand.
Labels: crime, gun issues
posted by SCC at 11:50 AM
90 Comments:
Sounds like Texas is the place to be, not like here in
LITTLE MOSCOW by the Lake.
jury nullification!!!
COOTER grab your gun were goin to Texas!!
YIPPEE YAHOO, one year of retro pay so far....I'm going to the Bunny Ranch in Vegas!
R-O-S-C-O-E P-I-C-O Train here Boss Hogg.
Gonna shoot me some I-L-L-E-G-A-L-S
(720 ILCS 5/7‑3) (from Ch. 38, par. 7‑3)
Sec. 7‑3. Use of force in defense of other property.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of "aggressor" set forth in Section 7‑4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.
(Source: P.A. 93‑832, eff. 7‑28‑04.)
Another great thing about Texas--Huntsville penitentiary has the busiest death chamber in the nation.
Texas and Florida should set the tone for the nation by resurrecting "Ol' Sparky". The needle is for dying pets in pain and two-legged pussies.
Hypothetically, if I was convicted of capital murder(s) with absolutely no possibility of parole, pardon or a new trial, my forced preference, in order, would be:
(1) prompt lethal injection,
(2) natural life in federal prison
(3) suicide
(4) natural life in state prison,
(5) other execution (electric chair, hanging, gas chamber, etc.)
Why give a condemned motherfucker a coward's way out? You'd be doing him a favor.
Hoourah for the lone star state. Our Mayor, Lil Richard would never let a law like that pass here let alone honest citizens have guns they might come after him!
SCC Said ...In just about any other state in the union, including more than a few red ones, this goes down as a manslaughter indictment. Interpretation is that once someone is fleeing, the threat is ended. Texas permits its citizens to use deadly force to protect the property of your neighbors though. We're also going to opine that maybe Texans are just sick of property crime, illegal aliens, and being tens of minutes away from any meaningful police response.
---------------
Illinos Law allows the use of deadly force to PREVENT the commission of a forcible felony. Texas law allows the use of deadly force to prevent escape AFTER the crime. That's a HUGE difference.
This is the first time I read the part about them starting to get away with $2,000
If I was in that situation I would have a hard time justifying shooting them in the back. But if I were on the grand jury I would choose not to proceed to trial
Tax to the max
WHO SAYS WE'RE THE 2ND CITY? | Chicagoans now paying nation's highest sales tax
July 1, 2008Recommend (21)
BY SANDRA GUY sguy@suntimes.com
God Bless the Republic of Texas...
please tell me... who is this "I'm Done!" aka Chucky at 701?
YEE HAA!
Don't MESS with Texas!
Illinois NEEDS a law like Texas and a carry and conceal law!
Only then will crime go down!
Is Sgt F.V. (016 1st wtch) really that arrogant. I heard that her friend i n 024 A.B. has been blasting everyone . Boy two peas in a pod. WTF happened to this department.
I heard the tape on TV and it was clear the dispatcher was telling him to stay inside and don't shoot anyone....I can say I support him anyway, glad he's a free man.
i wish chicago was like texas, i love u texas
I know that I'll retire there. What a great country Texas is.
Oh, yeah. Fuck Daley and all his gun grabbing butt buddies.
God Bless Texas where good people don't have to live in fear of lawless foreign invaders! They still really have the right to bear arms for justice. Like the state logo says, "Don't Mess With Texas!" Kudos to the homeowner from another proud real citizen who lives by the Constitution and would have done the same. Tired of recycled criminals preying on us.
With all that you explained....seems unfortunate but justifiable. Same conditions here too.I've had to call police more than 3 times on occasion when people are fighting(with weapons) outside or I hear multiple gun shots.
people say he's right. people say he's wrong. no matter right or wrong he's not the police & haven't been trained on the use of force. he saw a crime being committed, size the criminals up & knew he couldn't take them by physical force, so he got a little help. this is why citizens don't want to get involved because of the backlash of handling a situation wrong & being jailed or sued over it. so we wonder why a person gets robbed or a women is getting beat down in public & people do nothing!
anyone have the new sgt's assignments?
i have listened to those that are against what joe horn did, but never put themselves in the situation of being that neighbor of the property he protected & then how would you feel about what he did after viewing your home windows knocked out & house ramshacked!
A song once said "God Bless Texas!!" God certainly blessed the people of Texas with enough common sense that crime should not be tolerated. The saying is true, everything is bigger and better in Texas!!!
As always there is a little more to the story than the papers are publishing.
According to accounts, the burglars were initially heading toward Mr. Horn. They ignored his shout to stop. It was only after he raised the shotgun did the crooks begin to turn away.
All this was witnessed by a plains clothes cop.
The editorial is right, folks are getting tired of crime and the police response being too late.
This is not a knock on law enforcement; cops can't and shouldn't be everywhere. I know law enforcement is doing the best they can but I'm glad to see citizens stepping up and doing the right thing.
Makes me proud to be a Texan
Don't mess with Texas!
Everyone is all worked-up about the do nothing inside cops, how about the do nothing street cops. The prosecution rest.
im surprised the ''usual suspects'' didnt come out against the verdict.illegal= shounldnt be there....tell that to mayor ricardo daley.
you're 5 min away here in chicago.
from the second you call 911 to the call dispatched 5 min and thats if it's a 1a job with no language barrier.
Will the U.S. Government now deport the bodies back to their country of origin?
I am sending this guy my CPD's Crime Reduction Ribbon! He deserves it more than me! And I am serious!
And you call this justice?
Damn right I do!
Don't Mess With Texas!!!!!!!! Some of the friendliest cops there too when they find out you're one.
I guess illegal aliens who are breaking into homes aren't safe anymore! This is a GOOD thing!
Boy, it's time to meet your maker!
Permissible shootings and good BBQ coupled with reasonable housing costs make the Lone Star state sound very appealing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
squad, can i get an event number for a sno-cone mission?
A man buying a sno-cone was shot during a robbery on the West Side Monday afternoon.
The man, 31, was standing outside about 3 p.m. in the 4200 block of West Augusta Boulevard buying a sno-cone when two males approached him, stole cash and shot him in the upper body, according to Harrison District police.
About $800 was in cash was taken from the man, who went to Mount Sinai Hospital in good condition, and the two attackers fled the scene, according to Harrison District police.
OT-Anyone see the channel 7 story (about gay marriage) where Com. Quigley said "When my kids get elected, because thats how it works here....."
Guess politics as usual in Chicago is out in the open now and not just smoke and mirrors!
I love that in Illinois you do not have to retreat inside your own house! Castle Doctrine
and they fry people right quick for crime on the electric chair!
"Hoourah for the lone star state. Our Mayor, Lil Richard would never let a law like that pass here let alone honest citizens have guns they might come after him!"
Mayor Ricardo has to protect all the votes he can !!
Is Sgt F.V. (016 1st wtch) really that arrogant. I heard that her friend i n 024 A.B. has been blasting everyone . Boy two peas in a pod. WTF happened to this department.
7/01/2008 01:54:00 PM
--What do you mean by blasting???
Did the guy get his 2000.00 back?
OFF TOPIC:
WTF is with 004 lately? How come other units have to be called in to handle regular calls?
01JUL08-Call of Person Shot. Ticket read 9yo with a graze wound to the head, 22 yo shot in legs and arm. WTF is so difficult about that?
CAR 42! WTF are you thinking???
Other districts manage backlogs, some everyday (welcome to 005) with no rapids up! Just beat cars!
Im not knocking 004 officers, but whoever asked that other units be called to your district is making you look like incompetant fools.
Especially when there were gang teams in the district and 5 fucking PARK CARS!
Whatever gold star did this, kindly remove your head from your rectum, thanks.
Having contributed to the death of a couple of shit heads, SCC, taking a life is no easy thing to do. All the tough guy talk is just that, talk. Unless you have been there,(and I doubt you have) you should limit your speak to what you know, the CPD. Killing two assholes for stealing shit that can be replaced is wrong, period. Yes, they suck and belong in prison or not in the country to begin with. The state of texas said it was ok, but I'm sure GOD has another idea about what is right. I'm not so sure the shooter will agree that it was worth it either.
off topic: wtf is going on in 021 tact- po's and srgnts bailing out, bringing up young guys who havent worked a period wanting to go back to the watch!
Having contributed to the death of a couple of shit heads, SCC, taking a life is no easy thing to do. All the tough guy talk is just that, talk. Unless you have been there,(and I doubt you have) you should limit your speak to what you know, the CPD. Killing two assholes for stealing shit that can be replaced is wrong, period. Yes, they suck and belong in prison or not in the country to begin with. The state of texas said it was ok, but I'm sure GOD has another idea about what is right. I'm not so sure the shooter will agree that it was worth it either.
Once again, go read what we posted. We said it was "surprising," we said it would be a "manslaughter indictment," we said we "almost" understood.
We didn't say "good riddance." We didn't say "go kill more illegal Colombians." We certainly didn't say that it was "justifiable" or "deserved" or "a day for celebration."
While we appreciate the difficulties you face every day after going through one of the most traumatic events an officer or citizen can go through, we don't appreciate you ascribing us motives, thoughts, or reasoning that we never published.
Knock it off.
7/01/2008 08:36:00 PM
hey car 42 you have less than 18 months left maybe sooner before your DEMOTED thanks J-Fed for dumping them can we have another order of balless bosses please?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
OFF TOPIC:
WTF is with 004 lately? How come other units have to be called in to handle regular calls?
01JUL08-Call of Person Shot. Ticket read 9yo with a graze wound to the head, 22 yo shot in legs and arm. WTF is so difficult about that?
CAR 42! WTF are you thinking???
Other districts manage backlogs, some everyday (welcome to 005) with no rapids up! Just beat cars!
Im not knocking 004 officers, but whoever asked that other units be called to your district is making you look like incompetant fools.
Especially when there were gang teams in the district and 5 fucking PARK CARS!
Whatever gold star did this, kindly remove your head from your rectum, thanks.
7/01/2008 08:36:00 PM
WHOEVER WROTE THE ABOVE COMMENT IS A COMPLETE FUCKING MORON!!!!!
---------------
Illinos Law allows the use of deadly force to PREVENT the commission of a forcible felony. Texas law allows the use of deadly force to prevent escape AFTER the crime. That's a HUGE difference.
7/01/2008 12:56:00 PM
1111111111111111
damn, I like that texas law.
Anonymous said...
squad, can i get an event number for a sno-cone mission?
A man buying a sno-cone was shot during a robbery on the West Side Monday afternoon.
The man, 31, was standing outside about 3 p.m. in the 4200 block of West Augusta Boulevard buying a sno-cone when two males approached him, stole cash and shot him in the upper body, according to Harrison District police.
About $800 was in cash was taken from the man, who went to Mount Sinai Hospital in good condition, and the two attackers fled the scene, according to Harrison District police.
7/01/2008 05:15:00 PM
???????????????????????????????
What happened to the sno cone???
To 7/1/08 @ 12:46:00 PM -
Take advantage of the Nevada brothels now - CNN had an article where they are giving away free gas cards when you buy their "services." Go figure.
Having contributed to the death of a couple of shit heads, SCC, taking a life is no easy thing to do. All the tough guy talk is just that, talk. Unless you have been there,(and I doubt you have) you should limit your speak to what you know, the CPD
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Selling bad heroin to some addicts doesn't count. Oh, and please don't put yourself in GOD's place or pretend you have a clue what GOD thinks about what Mr. Horn did.
You are one high horse S.O.B.
"What happened to the sno cone???
7/01/2008 10:17:00 PM"
You, sir, are detective material.
"WHOEVER WROTE THE ABOVE COMMENT IS A COMPLETE FUCKING MORON!!!!!
7/01/2008 09:25:00 PM"
Yes sir, captain, whatever you say.
I have some faith in America or at least in Texas. Watch the Feds try to intervene.
Having contributed to the death of a couple of shit heads, SCC, taking a life is no easy thing to do. .............................
BETTER TO FEEL GUILTY then to be found guilty and put in prison because some idiot decided to harm you. I dont care if he or she didn't have to shoot these two assholes. Yes your are right he probably does not feel great about the situation that unfolded or how it ended. But better law abiding citizens who dont actively search for target practice on the general public be found not liable for actions predicated by punks looking for the oppurtunity to victimize people. He made the desicion to pull the trigger in an instant. I'm glad the old man is OK and I don't care if the assholes are dead.
If you feel so bad that you think your guilty of murder then turn yourself in and plead guilty and dont take any leinancy.
Sounds to me like you need to go see a shrink and get your head straight. Unless you think took that life with malice. If you didnt then I'm glad your here and who ever you killed isnt either.
Whisky for my men and beer for my horses. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
Anonymous said...
Having contributed to the death of a couple of shit heads, SCC, taking a life is no easy thing to do. All the tough guy talk is just that, talk. Unless you have been there,(and I doubt you have) you should limit your speak to what you know, the CPD. Killing two assholes for stealing shit that can be replaced is wrong, period. Yes, they suck and belong in prison or not in the country to begin with. The state of texas said it was ok, but I'm sure GOD has another idea about what is right. I'm not so sure the shooter will agree that it was worth it either.
7/01/2008 08:54:00 PM
Sausage.
WHOEVER WROTE THE ABOVE COMMENT IS A COMPLETE FUCKING MORON!!!!!
7/01/2008 09:25:00 PM
Seems right on to me. Explain your arguement, Genius.
My response is simple...if you don't want to get shot in the back, don't burglarize someone's home.
In Texas, when you're a swim away from the border... Should be a shoot first State...
I love Florida.
CAR 42! WTF are you thinking???
Other districts manage backlogs, some everyday (welcome to 005) with no rapids up! Just beat cars!
Im not knocking 004 officers, but whoever asked that other units be called to your district is making you look like incompetant fools.
Especially when there were gang teams in the district and 5 fucking PARK CARS!
Whatever gold star did this, kindly remove your head from your rectum, thanks.
They have no manpower! they had a shooting with three scenes a mile apart, a car crash, multiple injuries, multiple hospitals, then they get another two shot, another big scene, depleted manpower, a stabbing on the other end with a car calling for help; later, another two shootings, with 1 being fatal. The district is way up for grabs, the acting Dep Chief made the right call, they had a plan going and called for aid, a sgt and 4 cars from 006, 2 cars from 005, 003, and 021 plus TRU and Gang Intel all there! don't forget the triple they had yesterday also! He made the right decision, I have to think that the D/C of 004 is walking on egg shells these days, sad, he's a great guy too!
I am sending this guy my CPD's Crime Reduction Ribbon! He deserves it more than me! And I am serious!
7/01/2008 04:00:00 PM
i like that idea.
Pay for ass and get free gas? That sounds like a really good deal.
If you don't know what blasting means then you better go get a new profession!
???????????????????????????????
What happened to the sno cone???
7/01/2008 10:17:00 PM
Funny that is a good question did pooky steal it also??
off topic: wtf is going on in 021 tact- po's and srgnts bailing out, bringing up young guys who havent worked a period wanting to go back to the watch!
7/01/2008 09:06:00 PM
Its the fallout from all the new commanders being made. The new tact lts have never been tact guys. Its the same story in 15,14, 24. Can you say Dorothy isn't safe in Oz?
The spurious referral to these murdered Latinos as "illegal immigrants" demonstrate the ignorant attitudes that our still rampant in out culture.
And would the result have been different if these homicide victims were white, Asian, or black?
"I know that I'll retire there. What a great country Texas is.
Oh, yeah. Fuck Daley and all his gun grabbing butt buddies."
7/01/2008 02:31:00 PM
You're an idiot! You better not be of hispanic origin, wanting to move to Texas because of this. Reality is that stealing doesn't equal to a life. These two men that died, died like dogs, not because they where stealing but because they looked like "MEXICANS".
Yes make them pay for what they have done! Time in prison! But take a life!!! Seriously! This man isn't a hero!
I heard the tape on TV and it was clear the dispatcher was telling him to stay inside and don't shoot anyone....I can say I support him anyway, glad he's a free man.
7/01/2008 02:03:00 PM
_______________________________________________
The dispatcher was making a suggestion on how to handle the situation, not dispensing legal advice.
Nor, is the dispatcher law enforcement
To the person who said that they were sure God had a different idea than Texas about what is right... Well God has made his opinion clear. Exodus 22:2 .
"You're an idiot! You better not be of hispanic origin, wanting to move to Texas because of this. Reality is that stealing doesn't equal to a life. These two men that died, died like dogs, not because they where stealing but because they looked like "MEXICANS".
Yes make them pay for what they have done! Time in prison! But take a life!!! Seriously! This man isn't a hero!
7/02/2008 11:17:00 AM"
Post your name, address, a list of all your property and your weekly work schedule.
Then leave your doors unlocked, both when you go to work, (if you do have a job), and when you're home.
Do this for at least a week.
Then come back on the blog and let us all know how you feel.
(The public library can provide you access to the internet)
This man isn't a hero!
7/02/2008 11:17:00 AM"
Yes he is.I want him for my neighbor.
Anonymous said...
To the person who said that they were sure God had a different idea than Texas about what is right... Well God has made his opinion clear. Exodus 22:2 .
7/02/2008 03:04:00 PM
I spoke to St. Peter about this case and he said the man was in the right to blast the two shitbags(im quotng too).
Tell me im wrong.
The guy just executed them. Did you listen to the 911 call? Lets call it what it was.
Post your name, address, a list of all your property and your weekly work schedule.
Then leave your doors unlocked, both when you go to work, (if you do have a job), and when you're home.
Do this for at least a week.
Then come back on the blog and let us all know how you feel.
(The public library can provide you access to the internet)
"You're still an "IDIOT" go lick your wounds and call it the day!
I would also love for my neighbor to be on the look out for my home when I'm not there. But I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that a life was taken because I don't have material that I could replace, or can't take to the grave when I die...
"Again, DON'T LOOK MEXICAN IN TEXAS!" and no I'm not Mexican!
God Bless Texas!
Anonymous said...
The guy just executed them. Did you listen to the 911 call? Lets call it what it was.
7/03/2008 06:02:00 AM
and this is a problem why??If your a shitbag causing harm to the community then you should be treated like a shitbag.
Daley was correct on one thing,the courts do not work and we need to return to our wild west roots.Folks knew their place better back in the day.
I for one as a tax payer do not like paying $50,000+ a year to keep some scumbucket in prison.
Anonymous said...
The guy just executed them. Did you listen to the 911 call? Lets call it what it was.
7/03/2008 06:02:00 AM
Why dont you move to 103rd and Wentworth and lets see how you like your new neighbors.
St. Peter sent me a text message on my I-phone,said check out this link.
http://bible.cc/exodus/22-2.htm
The two Texas shitbags got what god wanted for them.The almighty is very pro-scattergun.
"7/03/2008 10:16:00 AM"
So, post a sign on your front door:
OPEN FOR BUSINESS
FREE PROPERTY FOR THE TAKING
PS: PLEASE DON'T HURT ME
That'll both ensure that you'll have nothing to take to your grave and that you'll soon be going there.
Go on, do it.
I dare you.
I'm late to this, so sorry if someone else said this. Running off with $2000 of a retiree's money is a serious threat to his being, just as if they were still pointing the gun at him. It doesn't matter that his immediate safety was not being threatened. His long-term safety was. This is why they hung horse thieves. Stealing a man's horse on the Great Plains meant that the victim was probably going to die eventually. Taking that much money from someone puts them in the same danger. The fleeing robbers deserved to be shot in the back.
I remember when Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones walked into a cantina in Lonesome Dove and saw a bunch of guys in ten gallon hats sitting at a table.
DUVALL: Damn. Texans. The worst white men I ever met were Texans.
So, post a sign on your front door:
You're still an Idiot!!! lol
Nobody wants their life harmed in any way or taken, or their valubles! And I don't want to pay extra taxes either for scum to be taken care of!
Truth is, it's not justifiable
!!
And who are you to say who gets to live or die!?
You shouldn't be too quick to send someone to the grave!
Advice! "Love and let love and take that big stick out of your butt!!!"
Has anyone hugged you today!???
"Has anyone hugged you today!???
7/04/2008 11:12:00 AM"
A better question for you:
Has anyone mugged you lately?
Has anyone mugged you lately?
TRUCE!!!
LET'S BE FRIENDS!
CAN WE AGREE TO DISAGREE?
"TRUCE!!!
LET'S BE FRIENDS!
CAN WE AGREE TO DISAGREE?
7/07/2008 12:15:00 PM"
Sure.
WE can.
But try that "let's be friends" stuff on the streets of this city and see what it gets you.
But try that "let's be friends" stuff on the streets of this city and see what it gets you.
7/08/2008 01:41:00 AM
You're relentless!!! That's that cop mentality.."The whole city is bad". I make friends all the time in this city. I met you... FRIEND!!
Stop focusing so much on the bad!! You're going to get an ulcer! :}
"7/08/2008 11:07:00 AM"
Take a little time to review what you've posted; the gist, as I understood it, being that the shooting and deaths of two men, caught in the act of burglarizing, (as in stealing), one person's property, BY that person's neighbor, was, in your opinion, not justified.
And that the shooter not being indicted, and being declared to have been justified in his actions, is, in your opinion, an unjust outcome.
Further, you hold the opinion that a human life, any human life, has an inherent value much higher than any amount of property could ever have.
What you seem to fail to consider is:
1. Property is that which most people work to acquire and, having worked for it, reasonably believe they have a right to continue to possess said property, until such time as they choose to either sell said property, give away said property or discard said property.
2. There are those who do not respect another's right to keep what they've worked to acquire; thus, these 'those' choose to, by a variety of means, attempt to take said property without either buying it, accepting it as a gift, freely given, or recovering it from where it has been discarded. This is called STEALING and those who steal are called THIEVES.
3. The key element here is the difference between an owner of property choosing to freely and willingly transfer ownership of said property to another and the unlawful act of 'another' transferring the ownership of said property WITHOUT the consent, approval, or, in this case, even the knowledge, of the person who worked to acquire said property.
4. And all this still omitting the element of the neighbor being in fear for his life at the sight of two grown men who, having just burglarized HIS neighbor's property, now are faced with the choice of either submitting to the citizen's arrest being imposed upon them, by said neighbor, OR refusing to submit and escaping, using whatever means these two burglars might have chosen.
The whole city is, by no means, 'bad', but to think that the opposite is true is truly naive, at best, and really stupid and dangerous, at worst.
You may choose to willingly 'give it up' when faced with the option of either keeping property you've worked for, by using whatever means are available and necessary, OR remembering how much you value human life, any human life, and hoping that your property is all that will be taken from you, but others reserve the right to choose differently.
The two individuals who died had a choice that would have resulted in their not being shot.
Don't steal.
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