Are You Studying Yet?
Rumors abound!
- Promotion lists are no more.
Lists are now down unofficially, but come down officially in May. Either way there will be no Lt, Sgt, or Det promotions in 2011.
Rahm's team is revamping promotions. The plan is to make each promotion part test, part interview, part activity. Not surprisingly, Rahm's team is very down on the quality of bosses found on the CPD. A review of all exempts rated more than half as unacceptable.
Rahm's team does not like the way the CPD is run. Items that are repeatedly criticized are perpetual discipline problems with no resolution, very low clearance rates, very low arrest totals for the vast majority of patrol officers, but the biggest complaint is supervision. The belief that officers routinely have no focused mission and instead simply do whatever they want in between 911 calls.
Expect most officers to be returned to district patrol and expect major changes in patrol after May.
Interesting. Very interesting. Start getting your General Orders up to date.
Labels: promotions
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
215 Comments:
Wow. This means t'll be AT LEAST another year before there are any promotions.
Studying? Get out your books, kids; your G.O. book, your prayer book and your phone book!
Get your General Orders up to date? You mean you still have yours in a cardboard box somewhere in the basement? That stuff is all on-line now...and guess what? You can study them WHILE AT WORK, when you're not handling a job...
...and your checkbook!!
Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy of having.
Rahm 's staff should consider education, leadership skills within the department, and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
Wasn't Jody supposed to update those orders for us? Oh yeah, another unfulfilled promise.
That's why it's called "patrol". You drive around. You see things and are seen. Spend all day on bullshit missions and arrests will plummet.
Part test, part INTERVIEW, and part activity. Yeah, it's all legit. Christ.
I take issue with the idea patrol wanders around without a mission. The problem is, patrol has nothing BUT 'missions', to the extent they are ALL rendered useless.
Just get an event number for the burglary mission, the seatbelt mission, the robbery mission, the homeland security premise checks, the alderman's special attentions, the cta checks, the school dismissal, the pod missions, the abandoned building mission, the building department's 'stop work order' mission...
Patrol can't do its job because it's busy Creating A Perception, Stupid.
If Rahm wants more activity, perhaps he can get the calls for service cut down by educating Pookies Mama that parenting isn't a police matter. Along with more than half the garbage we deal with day to day.
"The belief that officers routinely have no focused mission and instead simply do whatever they want in between 911 calls."
The truth is that officers in busy districts have little, if any, time between 911 calls. Rahm needs to be made aware of this.
First off considering how broke the city is and how much it costs this is not very cost effective. However if it is and since im on the short list for Sgt anyone that's in the same boat and would like to consider taking legal action for taking the list down at below 150 sound off on here and we can maybe get something. And no I didn't have answers I just studied my ass off and got lucky.
BS. Well written BS, but still BS.
Twenty years of Numb-Nuts Daley left the city with:
1. A fucked up police department (Weis).
2. And really fucked up school system (Duncan, Huberman).
3. And really, REALLY fucked up financial situation (Daley, city Council)..
4. And REALLY, REALLY, REALLY fucked over taxpayers and city workers.
Not only was the department gutted of good bosses (Lopez, Voulgaris, and Washington for example). But none were developed. I don't blame Rahm for not liking the present condition of CPD. It's fucked up. It's probably FUBAR.
I wish Rahm well in his quest. For the coppers and taxpayers sake.
Why bother studying? The interview part is always where the clouted are made and the non clouted are broken. Remember "notify the watch commander"
While these proposed changes sound good on paper (IF actually legitimate), how long will it take some "special interest" groups to circumvent the process?
One need look no further than the most recent enacted hiring changes/testing processes to become a Dayton officer. Don't think shit like that can happen here? Got news for ya - it already has in various forms, and it's been thriving since the inception of the CPD.
Emanuel, for as "all business" as he comes off, still owes PLENTY of people that helped put him where he'll be starting 16 May 2011.
Don't think that the loud-mouth wannabe reverends are going to go into hibernation or a state of suspended animation once Rahm takes his oath. Same goes for the multigenerational clout that courses through the CPD...we all know that AIN'T going anywhere - it'll just be more cleverly disguised and less flagrant.
I'm cautiously optimistic when it comes to shit like this...aahhhh, who am I trying to kid? I'm actually downright cynical when news of this nature surfaces.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Prove me and everyone else otherwise, Rahmbo.
Doing whatever they want between 911 calls?
Are you serious? You must be joking?
WOW. Didnt know patrolling the streets and alleys was thought of as "doing whatever they want"! What a joke! Am I missing something or is this truly the most fucked up city in the country?
So,those of us took the time and worked hard get nothing? They promoted the top 5% and the next 5 get nothing? Go fuck yourself, Rahm
This Department should be run by people with knowledge of the job...not by meritorious clout who can't find a hole on the wall.
Due to the previous Sup., we lost many competent people....time to make up for that loss.
Merit (or who you know and blow) will rein. This is a horse shit rumor. Wholesale stealing would start if the current lists are taken down.
Interview? Been there, done that. Won't waste my time trying.
throw the list out is a great
Anonymous said...and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community...
3/13/2011 12:26:00 AM
like guest preaching in a store front?
"part interview" = MORE OF THE SAME FUCKING BULLSHIT,
"part activity" = A QUOTA SYSTEM IN PLACE IN ORDER TO GET A PROMOTION, YOU DON'T WRITE AN ARBITRARY AMOUNT OF TICKETS YOU DON'T GET PROMOTED, YOU DON'T WORK ON A TACT TEAM YOU DON'T GET PROMOTED.
Same fuckin' bullshit with a new title, nothing more. Escumuel's just trying to hide his bullshit "merit" picks in his "interview" and his arbitrary "activity" counts.
All this means is there's gonna be MORE merit hacks promoted, don't waste your time.
Anonymous said...
Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy of having.
3/13/2011 12:15:00 AM
And I guess your more deserving because your a good test taker. Apparently not. No knock on you but we need a better system than just promoting "good" test takers, tests which take nearly a year to find out the results of, tests that repeated (i.e. Lt's) when a fault is found, tests that have given us the type of command staff that we now have. The testing system is broken, perhaps the three tier system might be an improvement but this is still Chicago. So yes little young boys and girls with less than 10 years on, if you believe than click your heels three times and say "there is an Easter bunny."
Rahm 's staff should consider education, leadership skills within the department, and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
Highly disagree with you on this regarding education and what police officers do off duty for the community.
Just because someone has a degree does not make them a better police officer and really doesn't even make them more intelligent. Have you seen or talked to some people who have master's degrees? I'm not saying everyone with a degree is an idiot so don't take that the wrong way.
Also, many officers have to work part time jobs or have family obligations during their days off. Not all of us have time to do community service. To be honest, most of us do enough for the community while working on duty and most of us are so exhausted dealing with people and their problems, the last thing we want to do is spend one of our day's off dealing with people.
Well, they got the part about incompetent bosses right. That's what you get when a half retarded mayor gets to put political hacks in place over the deserving.
every interview I ever had ended with being shown the door and told, If you have clout have them make a call for you. Of course I do not. Signed Patrol for life....
Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy of having.
3/13/2011 12:15:00 AM
I'm with you on this. I hope it isn't true and that they make at least one more class. I've been around 30 out for the last 3 years as well, wondering and worrying whether or not they were going to throw out the list. This is just terrible if it's true. I doubt that I'll take another exam at this point. I took this one over 6 years ago, had a legitmate number under 270, and now this is how it ends. This was the final blow I needed to finish off what little morale I had left. You would think they would promote one more class off the list since they haven't done so in over 3 years. Like another poster said, it will be at least another year before the detective division gets any more bodies. It's difficult to believe that they're actually considering throwing out this list without one more class.
Let's see, what to do between 911 calls.
Patrol, decompress from the privious 911 call involving baby-mama-drama, junior won't goes to school drama, or uncle raped the 10 year old drama. Or make BS arrests that will take cars off the street, making them unable to answer the 911 calls, which leads to boo bitching about response times.
With only 11% or so of sworn members making rank, and 30% of those anointed, why bust ass for Rahm? Rahm, or whoever this originated with, your BS criteria for promotion rings hollow as long as there is no definition of "Merit" for the 30% of all promotions that currently go to the cream of tge crop.
Busting your hump for the public or because you enjoy the work is another story. But Rahm or whoever,
REVENUE!
RAHMS GONNA FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE PATROL GET THIS CITY OUT OF BANKRUPTCY.
WHAT NUMBER IS RAHM USING IF HE ISNT
MAYOR YET?
UNCLE TERRY PASSING THE INFO ON LIKE A GOOD SOLDIER.
DONT THINK HE WANTS MORE ARREST EITHER!
ACTIVITY IS
TOWS
TICKET
ANOVS
Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy
I made it from the list and some of the merits in my class were great policemen. I have worked with a few, so go
fuck yourself, not everyone who made merit are fucking idiots. Some of these guys are already turning out to be good bosses. Some of us who tested well are struggling myself included.
"The belief that officers routinely have no focused mission and instead simply do whatever they want in between 911 calls."
The truth is that officers in busy districts have little, if any, time between 911 calls. Rahm needs to be made aware of this.
3/13/2011 12:38:00 AM
Right! I'm really having a problem with the fact that he thinks we don't do shit all day. So now we have to be busy doing something besides patrolling our beats now just for the sake of being busy??? This job is totally different from corporate where you're expected to be in work overload every damn day. Geese! Here we go!
Different guy, same bullshit.
009 mids
Umm no we drive around all the time doing what we want..Lost in fillmore .[answering bs calls locking innocent people up and sweatin mofos]..lol
I have no clout, and studied hard to score under 180 on the last Sgt.'s exam.
I know it will be for naught, as this rumor is probably true.
However, if the quality of management sucks, Rahm should revamp promotional training, not penalize those who sacrificed and worked hard.
I would definitely be willing to participate on a class action lawsuit against forcing the taxpayers to pay 4 million to administer another exam.
Rahm 's staff should consider education, leadership skills within the department, and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
Yes there are POs that have lead troops in combat in the GWOT
"Interesting. Very interesting. Start getting your General Orders up to date."
---
I tossed mine in the dumpster in disgust at least 6 years ago.
Where's Ray Ray now????? I hear his gig is up
Historically it seemed a new Superintendant brought a new slew of exams, a costly endeavor no doubt. However not too many Detectives or Sergeants were promoted off the last exams, which generally pulled down when the "diversity" ran out.
If it weren't for "merit" many of us would have been promoted based on our test scores and not on politics and this Department would be better served.
It's about time to reform this issue and hope you young officers push FOP to eliminate the 20 & 30% merit bs.
Well I feel bad for the good coppers who are up high on all the lists. They're getting screwed.
But once again who do we blame for all of this? It's simple, Our exempts created this mess (past and present and not all of them)
by pulling bullshit all the time. God only knows what line of shit the Supts were telling the Mayor and other Politicians in these meetings.
The Police exempt ranks are no different than the thugs in the hired truck program.
I hope all of you who want a fair promotion process get it with this new admimistration.
I got two letters for you on this rumor BS!!!!!!!!!
Yes people who get the test ahead of time 10%
managent picks 30% clouted study groups 15% legitimate spots left ....45%
Interview process now makes it 100% management.
The first thing Rahm's administration should do regarding this Police Department, is pull out and dust off the multi-million dollar Boos-Allen Report that was done a couple decades ago to assess how well the CPD and all of its units were going about the business of policing.
While that study was done by civilians and had many flaws, it still revealed MANY key problems in the Dept. One problem, according to Boos Allen, was the "bean counting" mentality that existed in the upper ranks. It opined that police work and police efficiency cannot be "measured" with numbers and recommended that this type of trying to quantify police interaction with the community was more detrimental than anything else. It leaned more toward a sort of community policing style approach to accomplishing goals rather than a "lock 'em up to add to the arrest stats" mentality. Needless to say, back stabbing, back biting gold stars had trouble promoting themselves without numbers to back it up. THEY are the biggest detriment to successful police work with all of their statistics and endless missions.
Another major recommendation that was pretty much ignored was the idea of TOO MANY BOSSES. It recommended that responsibility AND authority for job performance be placed lower on the food chain, basically on the front line of supervision (sgts) and that MANY of the higher ranks were redundant, ineffective and unnecessary (BOY, AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!).
Anyway, the study has already been bought and paid for by the tax payers and though not perfect, could help in finding some of the flaws that were never addressed and still exist.
And I guess if I were Rahm (or his transition team), I'd like to see that morale survey, as well. Get as much ALREADY PAID FOR input as possible. Its out there, somewhere, though much of it was buried by the Daley Crime Family, who had their own agenda that didn't mesh with getting rid of worthless deadwood!
Heard it's all true lists being torn down. Also heard rahm wants to decrease management picks all around in exchange for "pension modification". Expect a arbitrator to eat this up.
Also expect oral interview and subjective activity analysis to in essence make it a backdoor to 100% management picks for promotions.
Also heard he wants to find a way for anyone with more than 30 days On the medical (excluding pregnancy and cancer type sicknesses) in the last two years not be eligible for promotion.
"A review of all exempts rated more than half as unacceptable."
--------
Gee...
thats funny, a review of all the supervisors found that OVER 90% of these bastard exempts are clouted pieces of dog shit.
i'm only 7 out from sgt i studied my ass off too i will sue the city
for sure!
Once you have an "interview" process, it is all over.
Way to many faviors are due after that election. So many coppers I work with helped Rahm's election while stating support for Chico! We are our own self distructors and can not blame anyone else. So So many 3, 4, 5 and even 10 year wonders I see say "I'll be a boss in a year, things well be differant", If so I wish them luck, I have no desire anymore to take any type of promotion test in this cess pool. I have no confidence or trust in any TEST or MERIT promotion being fair and honest and legal no matter who the Mayor or Superintendant is. I have seen and worked for so many bosses young and old who NEVER would have made it in private world but thanks to Chicago's political climate have risen like a shinning star in the heavens.And with that said it's all legit every test and if you study long and hard you to can be a boss someday!
The only reason to take down the currant test is to get their own picks in. You want to stop the bad hires remove the clout portion and review the history of those who test well. Medical abuser - your out! Test well but no arrests in ten years - your out! It don't take a genious to figure this shit out. They keep talking bullshit about acting like the private sector but it's just that TALK. I had a Lt tell me your arrests ratio is good but you don't have enough bus checks. REALLY!! is that how we now rate POs? It's a joke!! I supervised 200 employees in the private sector yet I answer to Sgts with Medical abuse beefs and are sleeping in the hole all night. I've waited 3 f@cling years on Det list as they hired no one. I earned my placement and now your going to pull the test. Why work for you pricks when all you do is screw the guy with no clout and earns his keep?
You should all ask yourself why our Promotion Test Results aren't posted.
I would like to know where I'm at on the list and who scored better than me or below me. This is the only organization in the country that doesn't post promotion test results on how you rate amongst your peers.
Maybe our union can figure that one out. Or if any disgruntled bosses are reading, maybe they know?
And what are we supposed to do between calls? Look for crime so we can be Cozzi's cellie? Screw that. If it didnt land on the hood of my squad or I wasnt assigned to it....IT NEVER HAPPEND!
Now they want police work? Well I tell ya what Rhambo? Whats in it for me? And dont say my job. I will tell you to stick it. General Orders pretty much say that if I answer my calls and give good police service that I am doing what I am suposed to do.
We should do like Morton Grove PD. Nobody took the Sergeats test in protest of how the city treats the PD. Oh wait. we never stick together. Ahh Forget It!
Where do you get this nonsense ... totally untrue
Great. More retard bosses on the way
Cops Colon said...
Twenty years of Numb-Nuts Daley left the city with:
1. A fucked up police department (Weis).
2. And really fucked up school system (Duncan, Huberman).
3. And really, REALLY fucked up financial situation (Daley, city Council)..
4. And REALLY, REALLY, REALLY fucked over taxpayers and city workers.
Not only was the department gutted of good bosses (Lopez, Voulgaris, and Washington for example). But none were developed. I don't blame Rahm for not liking the present condition of CPD. It's fucked up. It's probably FUBAR.
I wish Rahm well in his quest. For the coppers and taxpayers sake.
3/13/2011 01:10:00 AM
So when he makes Shields the Supt. he is just trying to make things better?
Does anyone know what happened to Richie Scotch? I was wondering if he's ok. Haven't heard about him hiccuping, burping, or farting in a very long time. It's making me very nervous. Someone please help.
if anything, hopefully we will never have another henny penny
I'm not a cop but I would like to know what people do to get them not one but two or three meritorious promotions? Wasn't the so called "Honest Fed" supposed to stop that?
If this is true, I'm glad that we'll know the process up front. I won't waste my time studying for something I know is rigged.
"Last year we said, 'Things can't go on like this', and they didn't, they got worse."
Will Rogers
between 911 calls? what time between 911 calls? these people have their heads so far up their asses its ridiculous- when they finish their assault on public workers who or what will be next on the chopping block citizens?- hopefully the politicions themselves!
FINALLY activity means something in this department!!! And no mention of seniority meaning squat! FINALLY! I like this guy!!! Get rewarded for doing your f'ing job! GOTTA LOVE IT!!!
You can study them WHILE AT WORK, when you're not handling a job..
and then you will NOT get promoted because your activity will be ZERO!@!! HAHAHAH death of the lazy ass holes getting promoted!!! And sorry, if you have been on the desk crew for the last 15 years, sorry, then you shouldnt get promoted.
Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around.
Easy, right?
First of all make promotions legit. Almost every one knows you have to have a phonecall to get a promotion (or anything for that matter), the others are foolong themselves, and its sad. It breaks hope and morale to the vast majority of good men and women on this job. And as for screwing around between jobs?? Blow me, yeah some people hold down excessively, but they do it all the time and they are allowed to do it in most cases. The others get hammered with jobs one after another all night. I do agree management is screwed up and thats because most of the managers have no business even leading a boyscout troop. The reason they are in those positions is because of thier clout, and not because of legit testing or life experience. So, who is to blame ??? You know what really sucks, paying a fee to take a test that you already know you have no chance of getting promoted from.
Unless they use outside consultants to do the entire testing process, as is done in other places, and take the "clout/politics" out of the process for promotion, nothing will change, and nothing will be any better. However, this costs LOTS of money. Lots more than we have ever spent on a promotional exam, even with the "developers" used on the more recent exams given.
B.S... Test cost a lot of money and the city is broke. They will get to 300 or so on the sgt list before they drop the list. They might make 100 more dets before dropping that list. Lt list will be dropped in favor of test and interview process. No real way to gauge activity for Lt unless they get credit for event numbers and mission numbers. TH will make a class of sgt before his interim stint is up. He already commented more supervisors are needed in patrol.
I was hoping j-fled would have pushed to make detective a rank equal to sgt like they do in LA and after so many years as a det or a sgt you can take Lt. Test and move up from there.
Interview? Been there, done that. Won't waste my time trying.
3/13/2011 03:19:00 AM
Notify the Watch commander.
The more they micromanage patrol the worse its going to get. Rahm's team should start treating us like adults again and then they will see activity go up.
For this to work, the oral board should have no affiliation with any reverends, altercreatures or any city agencies. Pick outside sources with police background and experience for the interviews, not some hack from a social agency or a University who think they know how a police department should be run from a book.
So all those missions the 3rd watch capatain in 023 is running will pay off for all those 3rd watch officers. Because all they do are these BS missions with very few results!
Oh...so I guess that means you coopers will Have to write ANOV's and Parkers now?
Start off with Dog Nuisances and the leash law and Bikers not stopping for Red Lights and Cell phone talkers.
" Education "? A college education just means you can read & write well, nothing that will make you a good leader.
" Off- duty work for da' community "?
My community, you know, the one that puts in a 8 hour work day, works a little side job, raises his/her OWN children and is not one of the 50% who pays no taxes...their doing ok.
" It works in New York "?
Are you joking? Their just as fucked up as Chicago.
NYC has their own version of Shortshanks.
What CPD needs is LEADERSHIP!
You don't learn that in school ( look at 3 M & Nobama ).
It's learned right alongside your troops in the trenches, Leading from the front, not from 35th. St. or some office.
Leadership is an old concept that works & never goes out style.
.....Rahm's team is very down on the quality of bosses found on the CPD. A review of all exempts rated more than half as unacceptable.....
WOW!!!!!
Finally somebody noticed that more than half of all exempts are unacceptable!!!!!
We have known that for years!!!!!
STOP ALL MERIT PROMOTIONS!!!!!
Typical - dump on patrol, the backbone of the department. What about the “specialized” units with all the clout babies who are too good for patrol?
And as for the low arrest totals – is Rahm now going to try and force us to violate peoples rights to meet some arbitrary number?
Sounds like Rahm is laying off the fire department and will instead make the police department his whipping boy.
Same ol', same ol'!
What you do off-duty to benefit the community? Like supervisors not showing up anywhere on jobs between roll call and check-off because they're either at home with the family (almost honorable). Or jocking a side broad (not quite so honorable) or holding doors open for the FALN and checking coats at Casa Central (completely dispicable). We're saddled with the results of thirty-fives years of affirmative action with merit promotions being the icing on the cake. Rahm will need to order the Israeli air force to level our headquarter building to achieve any meaningful results!
I'm guessing with the 'TESTING' portion, the required score will be VERY LOW. That will open the doors for those clouted get the amazingly high interview scores and and production scores will be "adjusted" accordingly by their current positions...i.e...you don't expect an "inside" person to have any felony arrests under their belt, would you???
\For those who studied hard and were awaiting "their number" to be called after all these years, I am truly sorry. I don't think they ever broke 100 off the sgt list.
Good. I'm sick and tired of the lazy ass slugs on my watch that don't do shit!
Me thinks that is a great rumor. The city doesn't have money in the budget to start any type of test processing yet. Even Rahmbo knows that.
I'm sorry, but I agree. The core of Sgts. on this department is definitely lacking. I categorize Sgts. in four ways: great, good, barely mediocre and bad. I would say that the barely mediocre and bad Sgts. outweigh the good and great Sgts. by a 70-30 split(maybe more?). Hell, you can spot a bullshit Sgt. just by listening to him and his people on the radio. The barely mediocre and bad Sgts. eventually become barely mediocre and bad upper echelon bosses.
Now discuss what makes a Sgt. fall into the above categories...
supervise what they do between 911 calls????
its called police work. I dont care if they are doing it from a parking spot. They are grown ups. Well some are.
If this is true, the newly elected union staff should look into this on behalf of the order and for those officers who were awaiting their promotions...esp. the det and sgt tests. We all know how flawed the lts's test, esp. the "revised second" test that had the same questions on it.
First Sgts test I took (70s) if you passed the written you went for
an oral interview,couple of weeks
later your score/standing was posted in the lobby at 11th & State
for you and the whole world to see.
First detective test I took (70s)your test was graded and you were given your score right then and there.
We were all civil service,and if you were a veteran you were given 5 points to be used only once on the test of your choice,old man Daley took all of that away from us.
You'll never see those days again.
Old retired guy,still bitter after EXAMSCAM.:-(
Sounds like a real morale killer. Sounds like the ultimate numbers and quota game is on the way. This will make the public hate us more and make it easier to take away our pension and benefits. Anyone who can retire now and is still hanging around is an idiot. There is a benefit party this Friday at Bourbon St. ask the cop its for about making the boss happy.
For once let the patrolfficer PATROL! These stupid missions, ala 23rd district, are an insult and farce. We are all college educated, been in the military, with, tours of duty under our belts, have some of the best law enforcement training, yet the powers that be,constantly try to come up with ways to quantify, to justify their existence, what we do out here. Enough! let us be THE POLICE! We are out here doing what needs to be done, we dont need your hand holding, especially from bosses that never wore the blue uniform past their probation.
.
Does the number of phone calls and reports I take at the desk count as activity? No? Guess I'm outta luck...again.
and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
3/13/2011 12:26:00 AM
*********************************
You have got to be joking! That is code, not even attempting to conceal the intent, for allowing the reverends and "community activists/organizers" to select the leadership of the police department.
Don't be as stupid as people like TinyDancer think you are.
Remember, Obamao's first reaction to Cambridge was "the police acted stupidly" Remember he was the impetus behind the profiling study. Remember he is the friend of minority organizations and radicals that hate the police and military. Don't listen to what he says typically, observe what he does.
TinyDancer was Obamao's chief of staff. He holds very similar beliefs, he is also a radical leftist.
Anyone who believes an iota, a smidgen, of the crap he is spreading is a complete jackass. You are the gopher sticking his head out of the hole to see what that hawk is doing. You are asking to be stripped, terminated, villified, prosecuted if you believe you dare to do ANY confrontational action under this dope. I will wait until he takes office, then the first situation that occurs between a white officer and a ghetto rat, and will scream I told you so as the officer has his life destroyed. I take no pleasure in that, but have immense frustration that there are many officers that are not going to listen to this message, and some that are going to be ruined because of it.
Liberal democrats HATE US!!! No matter how they lie or what they say, they worship the LINK card, WIC program wielding savage, and hold the police in total contempt.
Wait and see, just wait and see.
The belief that officers routinely have no focused mission and instead simply do whatever they want in between 911 calls.
i wish this was true. last night we had 23 calls. there is no time to do anything in between calls except go to the next one. ideas from people who have no idea what goes on in patrol.
Yeah, and the INTERVIEW will skew toward the anointed once once again......
More B.S.
don't forget your bank book
Written by someone who did not test well.
It all sounds good here in print, SCC. The original "merit" selection was supposed to bring REAL LEADERS
to the upper ranks too...what did we get? Henny Penny? Cuello? Peterson? Murphy? Kenny?
And who did we lose? A lot more than we gained under J-Fled/3M, that's for damn sure. Now, I'm not disagreeing with the assessment of the Mayor-elect-Emanuel administration, mind you. I just wonder if they can lift that hefty 'mission statement' off the paper and make it an actual reality in a city that functions more on The Phone Call and/or Who Sent You School of Management as opposed a common sense way of preparing future leaders of not only the CPD, but of City Govt. in general.
Rahm should start fresh
lists are old , testing doesn't work , after testing cpd still needs 30% merit cloutorious selections to get minority supervisors . Hire some blue shirts , that's important .
2 street sergeants per watch , with GPS the dispatchers can notify the street sgt or desk sgt when a beat c ar leaves beat or assignment without clearing.
Desk Sget should run the watch , Rahms relative would probably agree.
We do most work on the watch and wc signs off on it. assign lts to an area and have them patrol and supervise 2 or more districts . Eliminate captains through attrition and assign them to run units like Public Transportation , Traffic , Court Section , MLAS ,
Crime Lab , ERPS , Detail Unit , Mayors body guard detail etc
CPD is top heavy with 3 time merit promoted political hacks
Dump most current exempts before they qualify for the Gold Braid Pension , that's s start in Pension reform that has support of 95 % of CPD
Rahm show us you're a reformer
cut the management and get some blue shirts out of the office , units and back in a beat car
The more we change, the more we remain the same
is old uncle les bending little rahmms ear---- where is he getting all his info from--- I'll believe it when I see it because this town stinks like a chicago forest preserve shithouse on a hot august day--- rahm, you are welcome to visit any district in the city where you can plop yourself into a patrol car for a half tour--- while you listen to the chaos unfolding on the zone you can also have your handlers pull up unit summaries citywide and see that police are not just driving around aimlessly---
Total bullshit!! For one, there are no people on the mayor elect transition team that have police experience with other large cities. So, there is, in reality, no fresh ideas, unless they are borrowed from some other department, and I seriously doubt that.Hilliard is a close friend of Radney, very close and do not forget that Hillard sold out the department to the mayor with the phony and fixed captains promotions , even for people who did not apply for the job for one and then the phony merit promotions even to people who did not bother to show up for the test. The department was as political as it could get under Hillard. Ihave said it before and will say it again. Only an executive leader from another large city police department who is willing to come here with some of his staff can change the entire culture of this department and the way it does business. There are many good police officers of all races and ethnic groups that would make fine leaders who never get a chance because they are not sponsored or liked or whatever. The new mayor should bring in CALEA, the police department certification group with their standards that takes most of the politics out of promotions and assignments. What good would it do to bring in some of the retired gold stars who would only return things to the former corrupt way of doing things? Until I see something very dramatic, I say bullshit to all of the new mayor's promises. Do you really think Grau would make changes that are needed? Or Williams? Or Radney ? Maybe Ramsey because he has been the chief for two other departments and has seen how things are done in other cities. The CPD needs a new direction. Do not forget, even when OW Wilson came in to reorganize the department, city hall gave him a police lieutenant as an aid. This lieutenant was a mafia made guy who was there to spy on Wilson for the politicians. Weiss has his city hall handlers. I sure hope this new mayor is serious about reform. But, I remain doubtful. What you should do is stop attending all of these bullshit gold star promotion and retirement parties. That would be a great way to show your displeasure. The gold stgars retirees can have their time in the spotlight at the Christmas parties just like all of the lesser ranks.
First off... It doesnt cost the city any $... You pay for the test. There is no legal argument for the city to give another test. There was a reason they stopped the interview part for Sgt years ago. If they put the interview back as part of the test... You will not be made if you do not have "the phrase that pays".
First off considering how broke the city is and how much it costs this is not very cost effective. However if it is and since im on the short list for Sgt anyone that's in the same boat and would like to consider taking legal action for taking the list down at below 150 sound off on here and we can maybe get something. And no I didn't have answers I just studied my ass off and got lucky.
3/13/2011 12:46:00 AM
There are grounds for legal action if this comes to pass.
1) Past practice (Union issue) - Since testing began, the number of those promoted to sergeant has NEVER been below 300 + off of the list - the duration of the list is irrelevant;
2) There are over 100 sergeant vacancies at the moment, with many more to come in the next 6-12 months. If the Department fills all current rank vacancies, then the Department might have a leg to stand on in taking down the list. (And BTW - You also can not publicly preach accountability without field supervisors)
On a morale level, taking down these lists with the limited promotions witnessed so far would be one of the most demoralizing things you could do to some of your most qualified candidates. We are past the top 100 on the list - so those of you who would argue about inside information - relax - those people have already been promoted. I am talking about those of us who did it on our own and remain motivated. I am not going to argue that a good test score makes a good boss -it does not. It just means they committed themselves to the process and performed well on that day. And, the test is the closest to legit that we are going to get.
If it has to go to court, there will be no shortage of us ready to hop on your bandwagon.
2 things First, how can he judge activity Big difference between patrol, detective division and special units Most of the promotions came out of special units where there is no activity or if there is, very little How do you jusge activity for the Supts driver or policy group for examples.
Second when you said no promotions for 1 year, it will be alot longer than that Rahm doesnt even take over until May 16, then a test han process has to be laid out. Then you administer a test, do interviews, no way in a year
According to Chicago version of the Webster's Dictionary Interview: Calling your clout. So to all of those morons who I will be answering to in the future. Let the Ass Kissing begin.
False rumor. They can do that but the city would be stupid if they did. The only thing that would happen is that numerous lawsuits would be filed and there would be a standstill on any testing until the suit was settled which could be years. They really cant take it down for the reasons you say. It would be a massive lawsuit and the people on the list would win easily.
Yeah, a broke dept will take down a test they barely took anyone off of and pay millions to administer the exact same test again. Some people have nothing better to write than b.s I guess. The real rumor is and I swear the rumor is true, Masters Masters Masters is going to be the Mayor Mayor Mayor. It turns out that Rahm and Masters are the same person.
So the "merit" guys are just bad test takers.... O wait, I mean stupid and too lazy to study.
Get your General Orders up to date? You mean you still have yours in a cardboard box somewhere in the basement? That stuff is all on-line now...and guess what? You can study them WHILE AT WORK, when you're not handling a job...
3/13/2011 12:06:00 AM
They have this new thing called a printer. I'm pretty sure they have them at work too.
More people in patrol sounds good, but doing what. I know in the good old 3rd district we have more bs cars than ever. They put 2 out of the front office & right on to another fake car that don't take calls & doesn't work the full day. 1 or 2 rapids vs 3 school cars & about 5 foot/ incident cars that are 10-4.
It's about time... the Supervision on the CPD SUCKS, open a book you ignorant bastards and it's called people skills, lead by example and 30 different personalities requires 30 styles of management. Something CPD supervision knows nothing about.
Good for you Rahm,
I love Patrol, hey Quinn, I am getting a 1% raise in Jan 2012 you want to raise our taxes 5%, thanks jackass
So rahm's team is going to make policy ? GOOD then we can get rid of the top 3 tiers of the chicago police department. Nice to see the mayor will run the department. Same o Same o.
Interview? Hahahahahah!!! That's even more fixed than the Lt.'s oral. So I guess promotions will now be 100% merit.
assign captains as commanders
assign 1 lt to each watch as the watch commander and other lts to an area to supervise 2 or more districts , 2 or 3 sgts as field supervisors is plenty
get rid of tru , msf and assign officers to district patrol
eliminate tact lt , have tact teams report to wc for missions
tactical officers shouild be in uniform unless on a robbery mission
desk sgt is most important posotion on watch , we do most of wc's work while they are playing on computer or out for long lunches , touring the district
You mean no more gun team partners scoring the exact same score? Wow, what will they do when it goes legit?
Will I still have to write my name in pencil, so they can erase it?? :(
Interviews are subjective, just another way for the clout officers to get promoted
Sorry, one last class from all 3 lists, then they will be torn down.Contract states that a list must be posted before removal of old list...Maybe they will promote last classes with no merit...HA.
So those of us who took the time anscored under 135 legitimately get fucked yet again. Those with the answers were already promoted. This place is a joke. Shit on working coppurs at every second. I sincerely hope this is rumor not fact. I will be on the lawsuit wagon for sure. Make em pay twice as much. How do you score top 3% and not get promoted?
Get rid of 30% meritorious. That is the quickest fix
Well, About the only thing I can't bitch about with regard to J-Fed....He got rid of that incompetent, big mouthed, gas bag, Maria Maher! An absolute joke as Chief of Detectives!
"Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy of having."
---------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. Meritorious promotions are a fucking joke!
Anonymous said...
Rahm 's staff should consider education, leadership skills within the department, and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
3/13/2011 12:26:00 AM
Agreed. We need to concentrate more on the liberal aspects of policing. Penny for Supt.
I took the FTO exam in feb 2008. When we finished, we handed in the test, it was run trough a scantron and I was given my score. The next week, a list was posted briefly at the academy. In the three years since, all the old FTOs were pratically run out of the program and not a single person was hired off that list. So don't let them tell you scoring can't be done instantly. Or that hiring in this city has anything to do with merit
GAVIN for 41st Ward Alderman. Endorsed by FOP!!
i'm only 7 out from sgt i studied my ass off too i will sue the city
for sure!
3/13/2011 08:59:00 AM
I think merit should be reevaluated and that's where the problem is. When I could read the merit selection, it read like it was written by an english major who was high. Now p.o.'s dont have access to that clear screen for merit selection.
The new process that is rumored is clout plain and simple. The old system isn't perfect but doing well on a test is objective and fair. If merit was legit in the old process, poor test takers would be promoted thru it.
I'm close on the sergeant's list and will particpate in any suit. I imagine that this will be done through the FOP.
Also heard he wants to find a way for anyone with more than 30 days On the medical (excluding pregnancy and cancer type sicknesses) in the last two years not be eligible for promotion.
3/13/2011 08:44:00 AM
=
Total bullshit. That, alone, would tie up the process in court for YEARS. Rahm may be a lot of things, but STUPID isn't one of them.
Tell me they can find a legal and ethical way to CATEGORIZE what illnesses and injuries rank higher than OTHER illnesses and injuries.
You're full of it.
3/13/2011 08:22:00 AM
"God only knows what line of shit the Supts were telling the Mayor and other Politicians in these meetings."
you got this ass backwards, so, that's one point for you.
"The Police exempt ranks are no different than the thugs in the hired truck program."
you got this right, and omitted mentioning the political thugs behind the exempt rank thugs.
that's two more points for you.
"I hope all of you who want a fair promotion process get it with this new admimistration."
you sincerely expressed a desire for fairness, while hiding your basic insincerity, and slipped in a reference meant to imply that the 'new administration' is not just like the 'old' administration.
that earns you three more points, for a total of SIX points.
now all you need is the properly thick envelope to go along with those points and bingo, you get to join the club.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around.
Easy, right?
3/13/2011 10:12:00 AM
Will you stop making sense.
Get your General Orders up to date? You mean you still have yours in a cardboard box somewhere in the basement? That stuff is all on-line now...and guess what? You can study them WHILE AT WORK, when you're not handling a job...
3/13/2011 12:06:00 AM
-
Can't highlight or post-it note a disk or computer screen. Hard copies are still the way to go.
Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around.
And no identifiers on your answer sheet other than your employee number, that way they don't know name, sex, race of the test taker.
Over the last 15 years, I've worked for good bosses that were merit picks, I've worked for bad bosses that scored well on the tests. And Vice Versa. There is no perfect solution to this equation. You need to find a way to test leadership, I could care less if my sgt of lt was test of merit as long as he is a good leader. I don't care how many degrees a guy has, but as long as he can make a decision in a critical situation, I want him leading me.
Lets come up with some solutions to the problems instead of just continually bithing about the current problems.
With all the ability and intelligence that excists amongst us all, type up and idea and send it up the chain. Or send it to the union to pitch when it comes time for their meetings. The lack of involvement/ideas for our future is what I find most troubling.
11th District 3rd Watch
TOTAL BS!!!!! Daley tried that 20 years ago with the oral review board and the FEDERAL court tossed it out as prejudicial towards all applicants. As far as activity FEDERAL courts ruled any type of quota or requirement of activity (arrests or tickets) will have cause for concern due to false arrest and trumped tickets! New tests yes I heard their coming and already a contract went out last year and that is was in the Scum-times they made big stink regarding cost of contract (look it up in the archives). So thoses of you on the list sorry but they've done this in the past and courts ruled it's ok.
Even if your 301 on the list and they stopped at 300 for wanting to give a new test where do you draw the line? I expect to see several class action suits not only from people on the lists but also people wanting to take a NEW test regarding the interview and activity parts! But stranger things have happened here after all this is Chicago and Daley's town!
Been under 20 out on the list for over 3 yrs now waiting for my chance to make Det... So i guess that scoring under three hundred legit, no merit, just studying, gets you nowhere on this job.... I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not.
Thanks all you merit-clout-orius pukes for taking spots that you are not worthy
I made it from the list and some of the merits in my class were great policemen. I have worked with a few, so go
fuck yourself, not everyone who made merit are fucking idiots. Some of these guys are already turning out to be good bosses. Some of us who tested well are struggling myself included
If you are not qualified and struggling, do the right thing and give your spot to a merit feltio expert.
I agree that there are great coppers who deserve to be promoted but dont test well. Too bad they rarely get picked.
My little brother is and has taken tests for med school. The test is totally computer based. When his test notification arrives it says to leave all cell phones ipods etc at home.Before being admitted to the test center he has been put thru a metal detector, wanded and scanned for RF emissions and Retinal scan. THEN to start the test a thumb print scan is done.
Guess Med schools are a little more concerned than the CPD is when people walk in 10 minutes late, text, and look at other peoples tests.
The only plus to all he goes thru is he knows his score when he completes the last screen.
NO chance of adjustment being made to the CHOSEN ONES.
So, why don't we get our tests back graded? Hmmmmmmm.....
If this is true than I say it's about time if the reverends and politicians stay out of the selection process. I've seen too many incompetents promoted with no activity. I feel bad for the people on the list if it's taken down but the promotion process needs to change. I was around 400 initially on the sgts. list so I knew I probably wouldn't make it even though a dozen years ago they went into the 500's.
Anonymous said...
This Department should be run by people with knowledge of the job...not by meritorious clout who can't find a hole on the wall.
Due to the previous Sup., we lost many competent people....time to make up for that loss.
3/13/2011 03:05:00 AM
___________________________________
Dont fool yourself Junior. That's the only good thing J-Fed did was get rid of Generation Clout Bosses he still needed to get rid of more of them. So, don't think those "bosses with experience" actually had experience. They were clout babies just the same, and you and I wouldnt have a chance in hell if you werent part of their cirlce!
Well at least it lets people feel there is a chance for promotion. The old lists are out for five years now anyway its time for a new list to be made. They cant keep the old list up forever and they should not. Five years is long enough to wait. Sorry if you did not make it, but they have to take the list down sometime. Oh well study again..
Pension, Pension Pension
20 yrs of life after retirement at 50,000 annually equals 1,000,000---whoever are the new leaders will not change the figures.
They have tried to do this before and have been talking about doing this for several years now. Fact is, they can't tear down a list unless all the vacancies at the rank have been filled per the contract.
While the numbers can be fudged (and have been) and the FOP might not exactly always hold the Department to honor the contract, it's unlikely that they can get away without making at least another few classes off each list.
When this has happened in the past it resulted in lawsuits and the P.O.s who were skipped over ended up with their promotion and back pay.
I also agree with the comment that creating a new test is not cost effective, but when has that ever mattered around here?
The test is not broken, the process is. Not all good test takers will be good bosses, not all successful test takers are legit, but the test itself is a fair academic assessment on how well a person knows this job. Should a high score with no activity get a promotion, no. Should a average test score with great activity get a promotion yes. Are some of the merit picks legit? Probably only half. The promotion process is broken because some people know whats going to be on the test and some people know they are going to get promoted regardless of what they score or do. Do you trust the city to revamp that process? As bad as it is, it would get worse. 100% merit, and we know how the city interprets that word. Again to be eligible the percentage correct needed would be so low only a monkey with a crayon couldn't qualify and then the "unbiased interview." BS
'I was hoping j-fled would have pushed to make detective a rank equal to sgt like they do in LA and after so many years as a det or a sgt you can take Lt. Test and move up from there.'
Unfortunately, we don't have (for the most part) detectives of that caliber here in the CPD to elevate to the same status as that of a supervisor. Nor should they be allowed to skip the Sgts. exam and go straight to a Lt. exam. If they want to be a Lt., let them go out and spend a bit of time as a patrol Sgt.
Fair is fair, and this isn't the UCPD, where they allow patrolmen to go skip the Sgt. rank now and become Lts. overnight, with little to no training. Ask some of the officers over there how well this latest innovation from Doty is working out.
Bullshit. It would take atleast a year to develop a complete new system for promotional exams... Then six more months to administer all portions. Six more months to grade exams. That means no promotions for two years! Scc, I can't believe you would even give this rumor credence.
I'm not a cop but I would like to know what people do to get them not one but two or three meritorious promotions? Wasn't the so called "Honest Fed" supposed to stop that?
----------
DALEY ran promotions... NOT the superindent
non-exempt AND exempt (Command Staff)
If Rahm is smart he will see how other major cities promote and AVOID the endless lawsuits that Chicago always has with exams.
"I would like to know where I'm at on the list and who scored better than me or below me. This is the only organization in the country that doesn't post promotion test results on how you rate amongst your peers."
Many years ago, the rank order results of a Sgt’s test was taped to the windows of the lobby of 11th & State. You could see who was #1, who was #1000 and all in between. Somebody sued and won money because they were publicly embarrassed that they were on the bottom!
20 out for Sgt. I'll sue.
Make sure to read Fran Spielman in he Sun Times Monday. The strongest indication thet Ramsey wil be the next Supt. Not sure if that good or bad. I always heard more good things than bad about him when he was here before. Based on these comments by the new mayor he is the odds on favorite.
Wait and see, just wait and see.
3/13/2011 11:55:00 AM
hope without the wisdom of past experience is mere foolishness.
survival of the fittest these days means the most experienced, and, in this town, the most cynical.
responding to calls for service is all that a wise man will do.
Does the number of phone calls and reports I take at the desk count as activity? No? Guess I'm outta luck...again.
3/13/2011 11:29:00 AM
it's not the calls you take, it's the one you make.
There is a benefit party this Friday at Bourbon St. ask the cop its for about making the boss happy.
3/13/2011 11:28:00 AM
why rub it in?
Good. I'm sick and tired of the lazy ass slugs on my watch that don't do shit!
3/13/2011 11:05:00 AM
be nice to them, they'll be your bosses before you know it.
"Rahm 's staff should consider ...what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
3/13/2011 12:26:00 AM
All that will do is raise sucking up to the store-front revrunts to a new artform.
Will you stop making sense.
3/13/2011 08:45:00 PM
if you insist......
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around.
You left out the "don't test well" faction who somehow get promoted.
Oral exam: Notify the WC. All tests are legit
I took the FTO exam in feb 2008. When we finished, we handed in the test, it was run trough a scantron and I was given my score. The next week, a list was posted briefly at the academy. In the three years since, all the old FTOs were pratically run out of the program and not a single person was hired off that list. So don't let them tell you scoring can't be done instantly. Or that hiring in this city has anything to do with merit
3/13/2011 08:06:00 PM
Why in the world would you take the FTO test????
'Good. I'm sick and tired of the lazy ass slugs on my watch that don't do shit!'
So, bid out of 023. At least leave the 3rd watch!
i'm only 7 out from sgt i studied my ass off too i will sue the city
for sure!
3/13/2011 08:59:00 AM
Sorry but your law suit is a sure loser. Like it or not its a no brainer the city can stop promoting and give a new test whenever they like. It may not seem fair or be fair but its within the rights of the employer to test when they want.
On a more positive note if you are 7 out you will get in. There is at least 1 more class of Sgts as well as Dets and Lts that will be made off the current lists. As short as we are the need is there will only increase. It will take too long to develop and implement new tests so at least 1 more class before the lists are taken down.
Sweet, I bombed those tests!
Rahm is already talking to Spielman about doing away with the Shakman Decree. When was it ever enforced to begin with?
Most non-clout people get screwed over on the verbal interview by the clout laden supervisors.
I've passed several objective tests only to lose on on the interview portion.
It's not what you know..............
Yes people who get the test ahead of time 10%
Management picks 30% clouted study groups 15% legitimate spots left.... 45%
Interview process now makes it 100% management -
You hit the nail on the head. Take my little chance I had with stroking a boss I have NO respect for to get a merit spot. NO THANKS - rather keep what little decency I have left.
Anonymous said...
Good. I'm sick and tired of the lazy ass slugs on my watch that don't do shit!
3/13/2011 11:05:00 AM
At the airport we call them the "go to guys" or bosses pets.
"Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around."
Why not just make it like the lottery?
One ball with your star number is thrown into the machine and when your number comes up, you're in!
Of course there would have to be some requirements before you can enter-seniority, time on the medical, etc.
It would certainly be more fair than what we've done over the years and what Rahm's proposing. Haven't we essentially done those things previously?
I was never in the military so maybe someone can tell me-how do they promote?
They have thousands of people worldwide and they manage to promote without a lot of lawsuits and the like.
Would that model work for an organization like CPD or do you need clout to get promoted there to?
I'm sure there are some bad bosses in the military, to, just like anywhere but it's pretty clear we need to do something differnt here.
Anonymous said...
20 out for Sgt. I'll sue.
3/13/2011 10:43:00 PM
What about the 19 ahead of you?
Someone is always 20 out when the list comes down, and 1 out etc.
study for what is all a joke there are really good old timer who would make great bosses get rid of the college requirements for these old timer they can also be supervisors it is time for a change its not all books it is experience which should count let's give them a chance they would be great as bosses .
the present supervisors are not the best they dont like you then you a target they have a bad day at home they come to work with it you need there help they go crazy have of them do not know what they are doing and are educated there main concern is themselves they dont stand when needed it is time to re-evaluate this process we need to do away with college requirement and let those who would do a great job be given a chance.
if any of u great test takers had cojones!
U WOULD BACK UP YOUR ANGER WITH CASH.
U SEE LISA MADIGAN FELT THAT A LIST OF FOID OWNER SHOULD BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.
SO IF U FOLLOW THAT THEORY THE CITY USES GOVERNMENT MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR A PROMOTION TEST.
THOSE EMPLOYEES SHOULD THEN BE ABLE TO SEE THE LIST OF PERSON ON THE LIST.
BUT AS USUAL OFFICER PUT THEIR HEADS DOWN AND HOPE THAT THE FOP WILL PICK UP THE TAB FOR THEIR PROMOTION.
ITS A FEW GRAND JUST TO FILE U NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
OR U COULD STUDY HARD AGAIN AND BE NUMBER 150 OUT.
Here is how you do a legit test. Ten different testing locations all at the same time. 400 multiple choice questions A, B, C, D, And E. Thats roughly 2 per GO. Scranton graded the moment you are done. Rank done at the end of the day. Ties go to seniority. EVERYTHING is published to make you a better the next time around.
Easy, right?
3/13/2011 10:12:00 AM
The last time they were legit was in the late 80's or early 90's. The classes were a little 'light skinneded' and they vowed to never EVER let that happen again.
Imagine letting race get in the way of promoting the best and the brightest!?
Imagine letting race get in the way of promoting the best and the brightest!?
3/14/2011 08:19:00 AM
no need to imagine, just look around.
"Are You Studying Yet?"
---
The fairest way I can thing of is to put the promotions on eBay and see what the market will bear.
That way there will be no complaints that the promotions are rigged or you need to know so-and-so or blow Deputy A to get promoted.
The results will be right out there, you pay, you get promoted, it will be public knowledge.
The money can help the pension fund or the city coffers. All results posted, high bidders win. Period.
Congratulations to the high bidders.
You got the money, you place your bid, you win, you get promoted. How much fairer can that be? It's the American Way. No bullshit about "merit."
You want it, you pay.
The only complaints will be from those who don't have the cash or credit. Too bad, should have not bought that Lexus or Mercedes Benz.
Anyone who is within one class, 30-35, on a promotion list, probably will get promoted before any lists come down. Unless the city has already concocted a new process and is ready to announce and run the test, it takes over a year to put a process together, even by an outside contractor. And, the city is very short on detectives and supervisors right now. Some promotions will have to be made. the number is the question.
It's funny,must only be me but the guys I know who didn't test well, the so called "bad test takers",are pretty much not that smart anyway.
They stumble through arrests,reports,handling calls.
Don't know the law very well and have no understanding or ability to recall general orders for their benefit.
They take things as they come with no sense of the overall and have some sort of resentment for college or intelligent speaking fellow officers.
All signs of poor leadership,management skills.
If you don't test well it's usually an anxiety issue along with not being prepared.
Is that someone you want handling that cr or crime scene???
Anonymous said...
They have tried to do this before and have been talking about doing this for several years now. Fact is, they can't tear down a list unless all the vacancies at the rank have been filled per the contract......
What are you smoking? There is NOTHING in the FOP contract that covers filling the vacancies in the next highest rank. The only thing the contract covers are the positions listed in the contract eg:desk, review, lockup, etc. The city can take down a list anytime they want regardless of how many vacancies there are. We as a group need to spend a little more time learning about our contract, the orders that govern our work and the people who make our laws instead of listening to the halfwit next to us spewing about everything he thinks he knows.
4:08am Gee, I hope you just came home from drinking at a late joint. Trying to read your ramble, I think you should thank God you even have a job! Yet you find fault with others.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
the present supervisors are not the best they dont like you then you a target they have a bad day at home they come to work with it you need there help they go crazy have of them do not know what they are doing and are educated there main concern is themselves they dont stand when needed it is time to re-evaluate this process we need to do away with college requirement and let those who would do a great job be given a chance.
3/14/2011 04:08:00 AM
Did you ever think that perhaps the only reason that supervisors kick back your reports is not because they don't like you?
Perhaps it's the lack of proper capitalization, spelling and 75+ word run-on sentences.
No, I don't think it's a white shirt conspiracy.
Anonymous said...
Rahm 's staff should consider education, leadership skills within the department, and what an individual does off-duty to contribute to the community in order to be selected in the promotion process. New York does it...
Like working for your Alderman or a member of certain Reverands congregations?
Sorry but your law suit is a sure loser. Like it or not its a no brainer the city can stop promoting and give a new test whenever they like. It may not seem fair or be fair but its within the rights of the employer to test when they want.
---------------------------------
UUUWRONG!!! There have been many winning lawsuits over this issue on CPD.
the present supervisors are not the best they dont like you then you a target they have a bad day at home they come to work with it you need there help they go crazy have of them do not know what they are doing and are educated there main concern is themselves they dont stand when needed it is time to re-evaluate this process we need to do away with college requirement and let those who would do a great job be given a chance.
3/14/2011 04:08:00 AM
How about proper punctuation and spelling and maybe we could understand your drunk jibberish at 4:08 A.M.
Anonymous said...
20 out for Sgt. I'll sue.
3/13/2011 10:43:00 PM
What about the 19 ahead of you?
Someone is always 20 out when the list comes down, and 1 out etc.
3/14/2011 03:24:00
How can you be number 20? They told me I was #20. Did the city lie to me again?
The last time they were legit was in the late 80's or early 90's. The classes were a little 'light skinneded' and they vowed to never EVER let that happen again.
Imagine letting race get in the way of promoting the best and the brightest!?
3/14/2011 08:19:00 AM
LIKE IS HAPPENING IN DAYTON, OHIO..COURTESY OF ERIC HOLDER'S JUSTICE DEPARTMENT!
Yes, I'm 20 out and I feel bad for the 19 ahead of me as well as the 190 behind me. It's bullshit for all of us.
What's your problem anyway?
Oral interview? Enough said right there. Will make it even harder to get promoted. Not only will they have their merit picks, they can get their people in through the oral interview.
Yes u can sue. A female p.o. did sue due to merit promtions on the last list. She stated she had scored well in the 300's and had numerous awards, arrests, and worked in several units working undercover doing buys. Had a very good resume. She new of several individuals who were merit and were do nothings. Had no arrests, no units and no awards. But had clout. Her law suit was based on that felt she should have been offered the merit spot over the do nothings due to her work history and the lack of any activity from the merit picks. Now if this case went to a jury, especially after Jody stated that merit was all legit you would have a chance. Find the merit picks and compare your work to theirs. Get a laweyer and defer the costs through class action law suit... Good luck...
Anonymous said...
20 out for Sgt. I'll sue.
3/13/2011 10:43:00 PM
What about the 19 ahead of you?
Someone is always 20 out when the list comes down, and 1 out etc.
3/14/2011 03:24:00 AM
I always get a kick out of the "I'm only 5,10,20 out on the list, if they take the list down I will sue" people.
Like the other poster said...someone is always going to be 20 or so out on the list when it's taken down. hmmm...Maybe they should keep a list going until everyone who took the test makes it. That way nobody will be the "20 out" person and threaten to sue. Grow up it's the way of the world. Please don't say that they haven't even gone over the 300 number like they have before. Things change...too bad.
I'm 449 out on the list. I'll sue.
Remember we get paid for what we may have to do not what we are doing....
It's a real bitch being 20 out and knowing that at least 21 merit candidates behind you already got promoted even though they are not as knowledgable as you are and or probably not as motivated as you were to study the material...
Anonymous said...
study for what is all a joke there are really good old timer who would make great bosses get rid of the college requirements for these old timer they can also be supervisors it is time for a change its not all books it is experience which should count let's give them a chance they would be great as bosses .
3/14/2011 03:58:00 AM
Anonymous said...
the present supervisors are not the best they dont like you then you a target they have a bad day at home they come to work with it you need there help they go crazy have of them do not know what they are doing and are educated there main concern is themselves they dont stand when needed it is time to re-evaluate this process we need to do away with college requirement and let those who would do a great job be given a chance.
3/14/2011 04:08:00 AM
You're not fooling anyone guy. It's obvious the same retard authored both posts. While I don't know if college is necessary to be a Sgt, this motherfucker clearly needs it. Why no fucking periods? Are they too hard to use? Those two posts look they were written by a 4 yr old lisp.
First off... It doesnt cost the city any $... You pay for the test. There is no legal argument for the city to give another test. There was a reason they stopped the interview part for Sgt years ago. If they put the interview back as part of the test... You will not be made if you do not have "the phrase that pays".
Ok so lets say city charges 50 per person. And thats more than usual. 6000 take test. And thats on high side. Thats 300,000. considering a test costs minimum one million to produce. and thats the low end. Your math is a little off.
i'm only 7 out from sgt i studied my ass off too i will sue the city
for sure!
3/13/2011 08:59:00 AM
Sorry but your law suit is a sure loser. Like it or not its a no brainer the city can stop promoting and give a new test whenever they like. It may not seem fair or be fair but its within the rights of the employer to test when they want.
On a more positive note if you are 7 out you will get in. There is at least 1 more class of Sgts as well as Dets and Lts that will be made off the current lists. As short as we are the need is there will only increase. It will take too long to develop and implement new tests so at least 1 more class before the lists are taken down.
Its true that the city can take down the list when they choose. However, and here's the way a labor lawyer explained it. If on every test up to this point the city has gone to at least 300 of the list its reasonably expected that you should be promoted if you score under 300 based on past tests. The city will probably say well this list is old and that we couldnt hire that many since we are broke. Ok so since you are so broke where are you getting money for a new test? Then another argument will be well the new mayor doesnt like the promotional process and wants to change it. Well bingo another lawsuit because you just admitted that the previous process was either corrupt or broken. So myself and others will look forward to litigation should they bring the list down prematurely. I assure anyone that is in the same boat that I will be on the front line in any litigation should lists be tore down. Hopefully it will not get to that point!
Best bet is to have minimum requirements that all officers that want to be promoted have to meet.
time on the street
senority
education
professional development
whatever makes some kind of sense
weed out the bad eggs somehow (much, much harder than anyone wants to admit)
passing grade on a written test
oral interview probably has to stay because there are so many intangibles involved in leadership that cannot be discerned easily by tests, or education, or longevity. in any case, do you want a goof who can't talk straight in a mildly stressful situation like an oral interview as a sgt representing the department?
the reality is like most management positions in every career, the higher up the ladder you go the less important experience at the lower rungs really matters. at some point in that climb it is no longer as much about police work as about politics and if the guy can't cut it in that realm he will be a failure. just the way it is.
I took the FTO exam in Feb. 2008. When we finished, we handed in the test, it was run through a scantron and I was given my score. The next week, a list was posted briefly at the academy. In the three years since, all the old FTOs were practically run out of the program and not a single person was hired off that list. So don't let them tell you scoring can't be done instantly. Or that hiring in this city has anything to do with merit.
I took that test also. So you must have been one of the individuals who left after the test. They had issues with the machine reading the scantron so they allowed those officers who stayed the chance to "clean" the smudges on their test. This department couldn't even get a scantron test right. They also proved that no matter how simple it should be they are too incompetent to handle promotional testing. But, surprise surprise they did promote the boss who ran the testing.
I wonder if Rahm would make the bold management decision and hire off the list ONLY for the next few classes......the merit-clout got in already and those who had made it on their own test grade and received some hidden help (i.e. was told by the secret panel what is on the test) are in
....those in 150-350 range are probably the ones who just studied and made it on their own.
(ok, and my apologies to those who already made it on their own grade w/out the "help" of others...congrats, be glad you got promoted before the tear down)
Anonymous said...
Yes, I'm 20 out and I feel bad for the 19 ahead of me as well as the 190 behind me. It's bullshit for all of us.
What's your problem anyway?
3/14/2011 12:12:00 PM
My problem is I am not whining like a bitch about not getting promoted and I think that those who are need to learn a bit about how this city works and also to gain a bit of maturity.
No one gave me or you a certificate of fairness when we got hired. If you thought that it was all going to be on the up and up then you came to the wrong city.
Don't ever get interested in roller derby or professional wrestling, your lawyer couldn't handle all the lawsuits you might file when you find out it is all rigged.
Wait a minute, I am NOT EVEN ON THE LIST!!!
I'm suing dammit! I took the test, where the hell am I? They left me off! I didn't even get a fair shot at getting royally fucked! I demand the chance to get fucked and I will fight in court for my right as an American living in Chicago to get screwed on a promotional exam!
As it is there is no way I can ever get screwed, I demand my usual and customary position at the back of the pack!
Then I'll sue!
Yes u can sue. A female p.o. did sue due to merit promtions on the last list. She stated she had scored well in the 300's and had numerous awards, arrests, and worked in several units working undercover doing buys. Had a very good resume. She new of several individuals who were merit and were do nothings. Had no arrests, no units and no awards. But had clout. Her law suit was based on that felt she should have been offered the merit spot over the do nothings due to her work history and the lack of any activity from the merit picks. Now if this case went to a jury, especially after Jody stated that merit was all legit you would have a chance. Find the merit picks and compare your work to theirs. Get a laweyer and defer the costs through class action law suit... Good luck...
3/14/2011 12:44:00 PM
What was the result of the lawsuit? That is important guy. I can only imagine she lost. It doesn't matter what her activity was or where she worked because "merit" is all subjective. Shields should get for us what the FD has. They have to promote the people passed up by the merit process.
Anonymous said...
the present supervisors are not the best they dont like you then you a target they have a bad day at home they come to work with it you need there help they go crazy have of them do not know what they are doing and are educated there main concern is themselves they dont stand when needed it is time to re-evaluate this process we need to do away with college requirement and let those who would do a great job be given a chance.
3/14/2011 04:08:00 AM
Make this fucking Idiot our next supt.
Check out the Pax 501 from January 2009 or 2010. It was filled with approved promotion plans to make something like 80 sgts., and 85 Dets., and other D-2-A spots like canine and e.t.'s.... J-fled signed this document also... If I recall correctly, this was "approved" by the city "budget department" but never came to fruition.... As a regular shmoe, I would think this document could be used as evidence for a law suit??? What do you think?? It can be found In the archives on the department computer where the daily bulletins are archived as well..
Military promotions are based upon; time in service, time in grade, professional (military required and defined)education and civlian education (the level is clearly stated by the organization in both cases). Efficiency reports are also considered for comparison purposes. A rank order list is formally posted.
i'm only 7 out from sgt i studied my ass off too i will sue the city
for sure!
for what hurt feelings? What about the six in front of you. There will always be someone "next" on the list, sour grapes.
Take the lists down time for new tests. The days of going to 300 are and were long over.
What happened to the case u ask? I know of this case because I watched her on TV being interviewed by a reporter I believe with her lawyer. I thought it was brilliant. She explained her resume and her score somewhere around 370 on the list. She asked why she wasnt considered for merit when her resume was so much better than those who were chosen. If it was really MERIT why wasnt she chosen instead. If I remember correctly her suit was calling out the merit picks resumes and their sponsors. To explain why someone with little activity gets a merit promotion. A major can of worms under Clines regime. She was an F/1 around 45/50. I believe SCC had a post about her. I was impressed in what she said as was SCC and I believe the blog wished her well. SCC do u remember this case?? We never heard anything more about it. Rumor had it that in the first class next list one more person was added. Not positive though. Whatever happened I hope she made it. She had the guts to buck the system. Does anyone know for sure what happened? It would be interesting to know if she won or if the city caved and settled. Check the SCC archives for the post. Probably late 06 early 07. If she made it, would make for interesting new post.....
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