Limited Duty Meeting
This from the comments:
- I was there and I pray that you never get hurt or sick. The showing was poor for what we are about to lose. This does not only affect medical abusers but the whole department. Are you aware of what we will lose?
Everyone with less than 15 years on the job should have been there. If we do lose the benefit we are all FUCKED plain and simple. With guys at 15 yrs on you have 365 days that will take you to 16 years on the job. At this point you will get 1 year disability for every 4 years on the job. At 16 you are eligible for 4 years on disability which you can carry until you reach your 20 yoj.
Everyone else with less than 15 years needs to be careful out there. Cancer is known to hit certain districts more than others and heart problems are also big on this job. With this new order accommodations will no longer exist be careful who you call medical abuser tomorrow you may be looking at one in the mirror. As for the pregnant officers there is a form you will need to fill out from now on. This new order affects all members even IOD's.
Anyone have some concrete info? Off duty injuries are one thing. We can't see how IOD's would have anything to do with this - it's a separate contract issue.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
104 Comments:
It is pretty obvious They don't like us. They want us gone so they can hire mall cops for 20k and no benefits. The sooner we all go to hell the happier They will be.
I was there and actually understand what is happening and at stake. The author of this post used just a little too much fluff in my opinion. And no, IOD has nothing to do with this issue.
IOD's are a contract issue but with the new order they have been included. If you have knee problems are you able to run after an offender and affect an arrest. If your hand strength is less than 50% can you affect an arrest. If you injured your back can you take down an offender to affect an arrest. If you have a heart condition can you affect an arrest. Those words alone are being used to push PO's out. They know and you know what you are capable of doing and if we all could do that we would all be full duty. Accommodations for IOD limitations need to be approved or have your Dr. rewrite your restrictions to where you can affect an arrest therefore guess what your full duty based on the new order.
Just one more reason to lay low & start training for your next JOB.
Let's Review :
Work hard chasing the bad guys & screw up or get hurt = fired.
Work hard & learn the job well but no phone call = blue shirt forever.
Take a job that askes a lot ( residency, held to a higher standard, etc...) and pays ok in exchange for job security and a pension & end up getting neither.
One thing that needs to be mention if your on IOD and your Dr. prescribes physical therapy make sure you take the order in person to the medical and you give it to the nurse. Forget the fax crap the med. sec. is claiming they never received it making you run down your days. It is taking over a month to get physical therapy set up. It's your IOD time remember that they don't care.
One year of disability pay for every four years on the job..you left out the most important part..AT 50 PERCENT! This is what's known as "Ordinary Disability"
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There is chronic abuse of the current system, however, those with illnesses such as cancer, heart issues, etc should be allowed into a certain category to be allowed to work inside as long as they can. My father had cancer, and stayed on the job as long as he could. He really enjoyed coming to work each day as he felt it kept him alive. He could have retired at any time, but the constant interaction each day fueled him. Have different categories to accomodate people in this situation.
Quick question I'm currently on medical due that I needed surgery. I'm not on limited duty so does that count? I would have gone to the meeting but currently can't drive due to the meds I'm on. Be safe.
It does NOT affect IODs Off duty sickness or injury and youve got problems.
But NOT IODs
I don't understand why the FOP didn't ask for the court to issue and injunction against this new ruling if it is a contract violation when they filed their class action lawsuit - so at least the day count cannot start until a decision is rendered??????????
On their site they mention it was a class action grievance (big whoop) but at the meeting they mention it's a class action lawsuit? So which is it?
AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT!
HIPPA!
EEOC
REMEMBER WHEN HEALTH INSURANCE WAS ONLY GOING TO COST 50 CENTS A PAY PERIOD?
Or; 40 years ago when the toll booths on the " Freeway" was only going to last two years?
Again the city will save money on the backs of hard working low level city employees. When you are out on the street deciding whether to take those extra risk then remember who has your back downtown. Nobody.
No, IOD's could not be part of this, well that is unless our union gives the farm away.
I do like the part about the pregnancies. Maybe its my imagination but it seems like a few that I have worked with are always pregnant.
And this shouldn't even be an issue. You turn up pregnant, you go to call back. You don't work the desk, the front office, or the radio room.
baltimore police where succesfull in changing their limited duty status, such as our plan, CITY WON . court ruling on side of city. not good for our troops.
The department changed the eligibility requirements for limited duty assignment. If your injured ON -DUTY you are covered under Article 18 of the contract for a limited duty assignment BUT there are requirements # 3 requires you must be able to effect the arrest of a active resister.
If you don't say YES you can effect the arrest of an active resister and your 365 medical time is up the medical section will make you go on duty disability. And you will not get a limited duty assignment . So any IOD officers must answer yes to all the eligibility requirements . I mentioned #3 because that is a new requirement . The lodge is fighting this because the city is violating the contract there was an agreement in place of what limited duty requirements . The department to it upon themselves to change the requirements.
As for NON-IOD you only get 365 days in a limited duty assignment your whole career but must still be able to meet the limited duty requirements .The lodge has filed a class action grievance for NON-IOD . They are waiting to hear back from the arbitrator. Every one should read what Baltimore did to their IOD and NON-IOD officers.
Unreal.
Here is the key portion of the order that applies to every officer on this job.
It applies whether you are IOD or nonIOD.
We have always had the wording for no's. 1, 2, and 4.
The dept. inserted the wording for item 3 so that they could take the American with Disabilites Act out of the picture and no officer would be able to sue the city under the ADA.
This is similar wording to what Baltimore did to it's po's and Baltimore's order stood on a court challenge.
Best hope the FOP wins this grievence.
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
B. Eligible sworn members approved for limited duty status will be required to have the ability to:
1. safely carry, handle, and use their Department approved, prescribed firearm, which includes
possessing a current, valid Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card.
2. maintain an independent and stable gait without the assistance of external ambulatory
supporting devices (e.g., crutches, canes, walkers, wheelchairs, etc.). Subject to evaluation
by the Medical Services Section, an eligible sworn Department member wearing a prosthesis
or other orthopedic device (e.g., brace, cast, etc.) may be granted a limited duty assignment.
3. safely effectuate an arrest of an arrestee who is defined as an active resister in the Chicago
Police Department Use of Force Model outlined in the Department directive entitled "Use of
Force Guidelines."
4. drive a motor vehicle, which includes possessing a current, valid driver's license.
Is this 365 set in stone already? Where is the paperwork on this?
Isnt there a non-IOD section, 18.2--in the contract?
Can someone explain what is really going on.
If you read this new ld/cd order it states that IOD incidents are not involved with the 365 day rule as long as the officer can perform the duties of an LD officer which are; be able to walk without any type of assistance or use of a cane, have valid DL, be able to carry and qualify with service weapon and the final one is the kicker be able to arrest an active resister. These are directly from the duties required for LD officers I just abbreviated them. So if your IOD and your Doctor signs off stating you can perform those duties you can remain on the job in an LD status otherwise your under the same 365 rule as all other LD and CD officers that weren't IOD related. This is huge! I can't believe they are doing this but beware. You maybe saying that they won't do this, let me tell you there is a Sergeant that it already happened to and it's from an IOD
It might be time for a plan to offer short term and long disability insurance which is pretty standard in private industry.This would give you partial pay for illness or off duty injury.
It doesn't take a lot to wreck your back working around the house or to slip and fall on the front stairs when you go out to shovel. With the Limited Duty option you could still be the police, still contribute, instead you are looking at 50% of your salary plus you pay for your own insurance. I don't know about you but I can't live on that. We all need to get on FOP and make sure they don't blow this off. Make sure they don't treat the L/D officers as second class members of FOP.
I sure hope pregnancies are written into this new order, to circunvent the federal law. After all that would be the fair thing to do. Anyone have the amount of time the average female officer takes off due to pregancy or related? That's a real number.
That post came from a long term thinking officer. He's absolutely right. I did a countdown as I was approaching the 15 year mark knowing fully well that that was the magic number to get a pension because of the 20 years of service requirement. You might only get 50% of pay those last four years and have to pay your own insurance as I recall but you still would have a pension for life. And if you didn't need to have the newest car or electronic gadget and tightened your belt a bit, then you could max out your deferred for 15 years and still retire with the equivalent retirement pay of 29 years and a day. Think long term for yourself and your family. The department won't do it for you. Stay safe.
Just another example of don't do NOTHING!
If the City don't want to take care of our Medical needs after all the bullshit we go through protecting the front lines!
Then the city should have no one defending it!
You are a stupid police Officer, if you get hurt and then City looks at getting out of paying its bills!
Stay down and get to retirement in one piece! FUCK these bosses!
Da Pelon
SCC, there are many fear mongers trying to include IOD in this matter. It is not included whatsoever. This is meant to go after the medical assholes which should have been done years ago. There are people on light duty for "headaches" and "backaches". Yeah it sucks that the actual sick people will not be able to use the old sick time but come one the whole program was ridiculous and needed a change.
Anonymous said...
Just one more reason to lay low & start training for your next JOB.
Let's Review :
Work hard chasing the bad guys & screw up or get hurt = fired.
Work hard & learn the job well but no phone call = blue shirt forever.
Take a job that askes a lot ( residency, held to a higher standard, etc...) and pays ok in exchange for job security and a pension & end up getting neither.
1/14/2012 01:08:00 AM
Develop a bullshit injury and stay on light duty for 10 years? I am not talking about a serious illness or injury but some invisible injury that existed years ago in the past and they stay light light duty for years to avoid the street. I have seen light or limited duty officers having heavy workouts in the gym and participate in very active sports off duty. That is the problem. Maybe if management challenged those officers the abuse would stop. Or bosses who hide females inside with light duty status. Where is the medical integrity unit?
It is pretty obvious They don't like us. They want us gone so they can hire mall cops for 20k and no benefits. The sooner we all go to hell the happier They will be.
1/14/2012 12:28:00 AM
Mall cops? They just want real cops. Not a bunch of fakers that are afraid to be the police. (Sorry to the minority of LD officers that are not fakers)
I don't understand why the FOP didn't ask for the court to issue and injunction against this new ruling if it is a contract violation when they filed their class action lawsuit - so at least the day count cannot start until a decision is rendered??????????
On their site they mention it was a class action grievance (big whoop) but at the meeting they mention it's a class action lawsuit? So which is it?
Not true. At the meeting Dougherty said it was a class action grievance not lawsuit.
IOD's are part if you can not return to full duty and have limitations. IOD' s will follow the new order and the department can either accommodate you or tell you your dr needs to change your restrictions. Which in return you are no longer limited but full duty.
F.O.P endorses Fran Hurley(secretary) over Joe Bird(patrolman,sergeant,attorney).WHAT A JOKE
Anonymous said...
There is chronic abuse of the current system, however, those with illnesses such as cancer, heart issues, etc should be allowed into a certain category to be allowed to work inside as long as they can. My father had cancer, and stayed on the job as long as he could. He really enjoyed coming to work each day as he felt it kept him alive. He could have retired at any time, but the constant interaction each day fueled him. Have different categories to accomodate people in this situation.
1/14/2012 02:11:00 AM
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With all due respect to your dad, doesn't anyone else see a problem here. If someone is eligible to retire and is on Limited Duty, does that make any sense. I'm glad that it helped this individual, but it really does an injustice to someone who is younger that is waiting for an L/D spot. Just so there is no mistake, I have been retired 12 years or so and have now survived 2 cancers, so I i know it is no fun
Basically say you can affect an arrest of a non resistor. Anything else would not be possible due to injury. Still going to fire me?
What about the fact that I do the job that you let me do at ARS every single day even though the pain is there?
The city will once again not get the desired effects it wants with their asinine decisions.
Part of the problem with Limited Duty is that it has become ingrained in the history of the police department. I don't know of any industry or private company that would make such extensive arrangements for employees that become sick or injured outside the purview of their employment. l/d is really unique and was given pretty much as a gift even prior to the union presence. If you cannot perform the functions of the job, it is time to find another line of work. I know that it sounds harsh, but if it is used too extensively it simply becomes another money drain. Besides it is not as if the ordinary disability regulations were hidden when any of us started.
I was there and actually understand what is happening and at stake. The author of this post used just a little too much fluff in my opinion. And no, IOD has nothing to do with this issue.
1/14/2012 12:51:00 AM
So I take it you were there when the po on IOD stood up and asked why they couldn't accommodate them after being returned to work only to be called and told sorry we can not accommodate your limitations for an IOD injury. Remember how they told both IODs you guys need to go upstairs. Both had called FOP many times and had been down to the medical section, they didnt want to hear them out. How about the Sgt. on limited duty IOD who was told you can not affect an arrest just in case you left before the end it wasn't fluff the author is right. The officer that recorded the whole meeting needs to allow this so call po who was there to listen to the meeting. Ask the po who walked out after he was asked to leave why he was so upset. Or the po with a heart condition what the FOP is telliing him, sad very sad. But you were there and so was I we just sat at very different meetings.
this new limited duty will save our pension , let's hope the cpd memorial fund will help officers in real need
next get rid of gold braid pension
let xo's run districts
no need for commanders
i dont see what the problem is, limited duty is not in the contract it have been a a favor the dept has been doing. many of these limited duty just dont want to work the street so they go to a dr who will say they can not. if you can not do you job in the private sector then you do not have a a job, it should be the same in government as well. hell with limited duty. you get cancer you go on disability, if you are cured you come back to work. if you have heart problems the is your problem get them fixed. my dad had a heart attack and was back at a job in the real world in a month, why? because it was his job thats why. fuck you baby police officers who dont want to work on the street. i understand that if something happens to me i will have to go on disability and you know what that is the way it should be. why should the city pay these people for sitting on their ass at a desk doing nothing?
For those officers who think that the ADA is their ace in the hole, think again. Federal, state and local first responders are not permitted to file for any claims. This was addressed at the beginning of the meeting.
What is now happening was mentioned years ago at the start of your employment. Thanks to a breakdown within the medical roll proceedures and the bogus injuries, we went from 600 to 850 per day on the medical. So consider this a big fat thank you to all the scanners, liers lazy do nothing fucks who think that they have some sort of entitlement that they have owed or are telling everyone how they are a victim and the CPD sucks and they can't wait to leave. Well leave asshole...but don't take part of my hard earned pension money with you.
Who is the fop rep with the carpal tunnel who plays the guitar? Very interesting, only hurts when at Medical Section, when Jamming works just fine.
I was there and actually understand what is happening and at stake. The author of this post used just a little too much fluff in my opinion. And no, IOD has nothing to do with this issue.
1/14/2012 12:51:00 AM
IOD is included according to the four requirements under section 18 requirement number 3. Did you also miss the part where the lawyer spoke of how number 3 takes away your ADA case? the new order was written in such a way that you have no case. To the above poster who claims they were there, please tell me how you are exempt with your IOD injury? Did you miss the part where they said this also affects IODs and a grievance has been filed. oh the best part, "you all know they take time", priceless. Time which you only have 365 days for lets hope the grievance takes less time right, This is the reason everyone should have been there.
Quick question I'm currently on medical due that I needed surgery. I'm not on limited duty so does that count? I would have gone to the meeting but currently can't drive due to the meds I'm on. Be safe.
1/14/2012 02:57:00 AM
According to the FOP your time starts on the 1 of Jan no one was grandfathered in. They started the meeting by saying the dept needs close to 1000 officers and they're going get them one way or another.
So with 16 years on you get 4 years disability then what? No pension? Or do you collect a pension after the 4 years disability?
If you refuse to sign the form that says you can do x,y,z they are going to force you to go on disability Watch out what you do and be careful abut signing that pape think long and hard about it
The problem is that only the ones that need this actually care. Most cops have the mentality well it doesn't affect me now so what do I care. Many have the attitude that im invincible and it will never happen to me. With an average life expectancy of almost twenty years less than the average person this is an important issue. And because of people not caring the city will basically do what they want.
No, IOD's could not be part of this, well that is unless our union gives the farm away.
I do like the part about the pregnancies. Maybe its my imagination but it seems like a few that I have worked with are always pregnant.
And this shouldn't even be an issue. You turn up pregnant, you go to call back. You don't work the desk, the front office, or the radio room.
1/14/2012 05:32:00 AM
Obviously this must be a guy commenting...are you paying for your co-worker's kids?? Then why should you give a f#ck how many she has? If you are married I guess your wife should only be allowed to have one child ever if this is your line of thinking. You must be salty because you wanted to work the desk, front office, or radio room and were told no. Idiot...
Here's an example of the problem boys and girls. A certain unit rep who shall remain nameless claims to have some malady where she cannot use her hands and has been on limited duty for years. She has the balls to show up at a union meeting carrying a guitar. Who is to blame here; the Department or the cowards who screwed up a good thing for those who really need it?
Anonymous said...
There is chronic abuse of the current system, however, those with illnesses such as cancer, heart issues, etc should be allowed into a certain category to be allowed to work inside as long as they can. My father had cancer, and stayed on the job as long as he could. He really enjoyed coming to work each day as he felt it kept him alive. He could have retired at any time, but the constant interaction each day fueled him. Have different categories to accomodate people in this situation.
1/14/2012 02:11:00 AM
You are ABSOLUTELY correct.
Problem is the CPD is a bureaucracy with NO human emotions or concerns and their ONLY care is lost medical time which is why your idea will never occur to our worthless hierarchy of puppets.
What or where was this meeting? I am on the medical for the first time EVER and of course this shit comes out now. I don't plan to be out much longer but crazier things have happened.
I hate every last one of you fucking people that abused this system for so long. It is one thing to burn a lunch location with your fat ass McDonald's loving useless self, but this stuff is important.
The meeting was informative. There were about as many people that come to a general meeting in attendance (about 150). The lodge has filed a class action grievance on the past practice of non-iod limited duty and they have also filed on the changes in the eligibility requirements (having to affect the arrest of an active resister)for all limited duty. The attorney Mr Goober (close) suggested that individuals get a second opinion on an ADA claim if they think that they have one. ADA claims have not went well in the 7th Circuit Court. Who/How will they decide if an officer can affect the arrest of an active resister. This had to be put in by a civilian (Maybe Ladner). Ladner could play the active resister. I bet all would participate then.
What do you expect, the way our medical is abused on a daily basis this was bound to happen. Just hope they don't mess with IOD....although there are alot of abusers on IOD also...
Anonymous said...
Quick question I'm currently on medical due that I needed surgery. I'm not on limited duty so does that count? I would have gone to the meeting but currently can't drive due to the meds I'm on. Be safe.
1/14/2012 02:57:00 AM
No, not being on Limited Duty is not the same as being on Limited Duty. Similar to turning left is not the same as turning right, night is not the same as day, IOD is not the same as medical sickness not duty related. Black is not the same as white. Grape pop is not the same as orange pop.
Any time you need an intelligent question answered, just post again.
HEY 1/14/2012 01:21:00 AM:
It is not the Medical Section responsibilty to make the YOUR paperwork is rec'd from the treating MD...It is the officer!!! Take charge of your care.....Plus YOUR are getting paid!!!!
I don't understand why the FOP didn't ask for the court to issue and injunction against this new ruling if it is a contract violation when they filed their class action lawsuit - so at least the day count cannot start until a decision is rendered??????????
On their site they mention it was a class action grievance (big whoop) but at the meeting they mention it's a class action lawsuit?
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The FOP did do something, bought 4 more years for people, the court cases in Detroit and Baltimore were decided in the City's favor 4 years ago, so when Chicago 1st suggested this the FOP has fought it for 4 years, thankfully everything the city of Chicago does takes years.
And this shouldn't even be an issue. You turn up pregnant, you go to call back. You don't work the desk, the front office, or the radio room.
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I overheard some female PO in 007 complaining about having to work the radio room since she was pregnant. "dont they know I'm pregnant? I can't be reaching to get radios, I be high risk". Really? Then go to call back and answer phones and take reports.
Honestly, we need to STOP PAYING UNION DUES!!! these people have NOT fought this at all.
The foot guy in 023 takes the cake for shit like this. Spent half his career on the medical with fake shit. Been gone for almost another entire year again.
All of these new implemented things to follow about medical is a direct discrimination for people with disabilities. If our union had any brains they would file a class action lawsuit because this violates and discriminates against those who have to use wheelchairs, develop heart problems, cancer and etc. Now we have to individually venture in suing ourselves. Craziness, must be nice that Shields is just using us as a stepping stone and selling us out. I really believe that we need to file EO complaints at Federal Level, bring the order copy signed by McGoof and file discrimination under the ADA (American Disability Act) and we might stand a chance to stop this madness. If the City hired us and we were healthy(we can prove this because we under went a medical physical examination in the hiring process), they shouldn't get rid of us because later we develop a heart problem, bone marrow and etc. No other job does that and the last time I checked the City is an employer under the USA and not in some third world country. I wish people would know better their rights and fight. We are healthy now, but God knows what in later years our health might be. At least fight, the city always backs down when we start fighting. I hope this helps for those who are about to start battling the city and I wish you the best. It is not easy, but it can be done. The union will discourage fighting, but obviously the union is going to do nothing. At the meeting the union reps would only take and answer certain questions, must be nice. There's EO and EEO and here are the links.
"how to file a complaint under title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act."
http://www.ada.gov/t3compfm.htm
Department of the Interior Office of Civil Rights: Filing a Complaint
http://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/index.cfm
https://www.disability.gov/civil_rights/filing_complaints
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/crc/external-enforc-complaints.htm
you can thanks all the abusers, past and present. you all knew this was coming. next, Korshack case, forget your FREE medical, pay up like everybody else.
Wow, this is giving me an incentive to get out there and work extra hard. Tonight when I go to work on the West Side, I will work extra hard. I will make a lot of traffic stops, streets stops, go through people. I will make several arrests, an impound or two (I love generating a lot of income for this grateful city), a lot of parkers, and moving violations. I feel so valued by my employer. I know, I should be grateful just for having a job.
If you have less than 10 years then just quit, walk away.
Nobody will want this job in a few years.
Face it, Rahm is running the city like a corporation, fuck the little guy to make himself look good for when he runs for the US Senate...
He is screwing with the middle class taxpayer to get the minority vote
FMLA protects pregnant mothers and sickness related things. i dont see how they can bi-pass this law. Though That Baltimore ruling will effect this ruling. Stay healthy and safe.
As I city worker, I can tell you that you have a lot to use if the city wants to model your disability program after ours. When you become sick and unable to work, you have to go on unpaid leave for 30 days then you can apply for an ORDINARY DISABILITY. If granted, you will get 50% of your pay and you pay your own healthcare. Which can be quite expensive (somewhere between $600 and $1000, depending on your plan). This saves the city a ton of money.
So yes, it won't affect IOD but you have a ton to lose here.
You have limited duty officers running the FOP disability committee. What do you expect, back up? Those officers will now go on 75% duty disability until they retire in a couple of years. Such fools who didn't see this coming.
Anonymous said...
So with 16 years on you get 4 years disability then what? No pension? Or do you collect a pension after the 4 years disability?
1/14/2012 11:54:00 AM
16 yrs on job.
one year of disability for every four worked = 4 years on ordinary disability, 50% of your salary. Plus you pay your own and your familys health insurance.
After that you collect your pension.
This is a raw deal for every police officer
Anonymous said...
i dont see what the problem is, limited duty is not in the contract it have been a a favor the dept has been doing. many of these limited duty just dont want to work the street so they go to a dr who will say they can not. if you can not do you job in the private sector then you do not have a a job, it should be the same in government as well. hell with limited duty. you get cancer you go on disability, if you are cured you come back to work. if you have heart problems the is your problem get them fixed. my dad had a heart attack and was back at a job in the real world in a month, why? because it was his job thats why. fuck you baby police officers who dont want to work on the street. i understand that if something happens to me i will have to go on disability and you know what that is the way it should be. why should the city pay these people for sitting on their ass at a desk doing nothing?
1/14/2012 11:11:00 AM
Wow, another heartless ungrateful citizen.
CPD police do not pay into Social Security.
So, no SSI.
Disability benefits are one year for every four that you have worked and you pay your own insurance.
After disability - you pull your pension.
Does anyone here think that the our pension can sustain the numbers that will be jumping at them in the very near future?
Anonymous said...
this new limited duty will save our pension , let's hope the cpd memorial fund will help officers in real need
next get rid of gold braid pension
let xo's run districts
no need for commanders
1/14/2012 11:02:00 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry but it won't save our pension.
It will actually hurt it.
If many of these officers cannot return to full duty then they will be seeking disability pension and then retire thus pulling a pension as well.
How does that save anything of the pension?
O'Brien said...
Part of the problem with Limited Duty is that it has become ingrained in the history of the police department. I don't know of any industry or private company that would make such extensive arrangements for employees that become sick or injured outside the purview of their employment. l/d is really unique and was given pretty much as a gift even prior to the union presence. If you cannot perform the functions of the job, it is time to find another line of work. I know that it sounds harsh, but if it is used too extensively it simply becomes another money drain. Besides it is not as if the ordinary disability regulations were hidden when any of us started.
1/14/2012 10:59:00 AM
I hope that you never need to use IOD or Limited duty benefit for any reason the rest of your career.
""Obviously this must be a guy commenting...are you paying for your co-worker's kids?? Then why should you give a f#ck how many she has? If you are married I guess your wife should only be allowed to have one child ever if this is your line of thinking. You must be salty because you wanted to work the desk, front office, or radio room and were told no. Idiot...
1/14/2012 01:32:00 PM
I'm not the OP, but I do give a f#ck how many you have, just like I give a f#ck how many a welfare mom has. See, I pay the family insurance rate, and so do you. However if you have 6 kids and I have one, guess what? Some of my family rate goes to cover the 5 more kids you have than me...See?
What if they got rid of the family rate and charged you per person?
Bet you'd be screaming how they are trying to control your family size.
Anonymous said...
SCC, there are many fear mongers trying to include IOD in this matter. It is not included whatsoever. This is meant to go after the medical assholes which should have been done years ago. There are people on light duty for "headaches" and "backaches". Yeah it sucks that the actual sick people will not be able to use the old sick time but come one the whole program was ridiculous and needed a change.
1/14/2012 09:19:00 AM
This order applies to ALL limited duty officers whether they are IOD or non-IOD.
The only difference between the two in the order is that the non-IOD officers only get 365 days of non-IOD limited duty for their entire career.
That includes you too, "Mr. we needed a change"
So, if you break your leg off duty and you use 12 weeks of medical time and your dr. says that you can go back to work just not on the street for another 4 weeks, that is 28 days off of your career high 365 days. And every time you need to use this limited duty time it is deducted from that 365 over the course of your entire career.
Be careful what you wish for.
NEVER LET THE CITY TAKE A BENEFIT AWAY FROM YOU. You never gain it back.
Obviously this must be a guy commenting...are you paying for your co-worker's kids?? Then why should you give a f#ck how many she has? If you are married I guess your wife should only be allowed to have one child ever if this is your line of thinking. You must be salty because you wanted to work the desk, front office, or radio room and were told no. Idiot...
++++++++++++++++++++++++
It probably is a guy. So am I and don't bring our non police wives into it. They don't get 4-6 months off full pay and benefits for choosing to get pregnant. Yea, you heard me-CHOOSING. You want to have children, more power to you. But if the city decides to cut benefits for non IOD medical issues, that's pregnancy too.
We can talk about the whining about "child care issues" at a later time.
Rip away.
So if the dept tells females that they can't work the street when they announce they are pregnant, but then tell them that they will only get 365 days of limited ("desk") duty, how will this work?
This seems like the dept is trying to talk out of both sides of their mouths.
Is pregnancy really covered under this whole 365day bs?
Thanks to a breakdown within the medical roll proceedures and the bogus injuries, we went from 600 to 850 per day on the medical.
"............
This number is NOT correct.
As 55 and out continues... More eligible retirees are the HIGH percentage users...
This number should FLAT out after Jan 2013. That does no mean numbers cannot be used for OTHER reasons..
"Who is the fop rep with the carpal tunnel who plays the guitar? Very interesting, only hurts when at Medical Section, when Jamming works just fine.
1/14/2012 11:37:00 AM"
Guess You nevr heard of 5 String Therapy?
Very few employees get more than a few sick days a year. getting 365 in a 20 year career is very generous.
Work related is a bit of a different story and should be handled differently. But realistically, a guy who is so banged up that he is off for more than a year even if it is work related probably is not coming back anyway, and there ought to be some way to deal with that in a fair way.
SCC, there are many fear mongers trying to include IOD in this matter. It is not included whatsoever. This is meant to go after the medical assholes which should have been done years ago. There are people on light duty for "headaches" and "backaches". Yeah it sucks that the actual sick people will not be able to use the old sick time but come one the whole program was ridiculous and needed a change.
1/14/2012 09:19:00 AM
Becareful for what you ask for because it could happen to you one day. Not only will it suck to have a life changing illness or injury but you'll wish you still had this ridiculous program that we fought for.
This is how they start. When a predator is hunting a herd, they go after the very young, old or weak. They are going after the weak at the moment, who will they go after nest? But seeing how many of you have that herd mentality, you'll look at one of your fellows get taken out and then sigh relief that it wasn't you and continue to move along. But don't forget that thought in that pinhead mind of yours that you might be next.
"What or where was this meeting? I am on the medical for the first time EVER and of course this shit comes out now. I don't plan to be out much longer but crazier things have happened.
I hate every last one of you fucking people that abused this system for so long. It is one thing to burn a lunch location with your fat ass McDonald's loving useless self, but this stuff is important.
1/14/2012 02:21:00 PM", says this new dog-ass medical abusing scammer.
Welcome to the club, this is how it starts...
What do you expect, the way our medical is abused on a daily basis this was bound to happen. Just hope they don't mess with IOD....although there are alot of abusers on IOD also...
1/14/2012 03:25:00 PM
LOL...I was just waiting for one of you pinheads to write this! That's right, go after the weak...first the limited duties now lets go after the iod'ers...pray that you dont get sick.
This is the classic case of "throwing the baby out with bath water" syndrome. If, lets say, you get a chronic illness or injury- off duty that prevents you from working on your eighth year of service then many of you pinheads that posted will want you out. If you have more years then you can try the 50% pay gimmick but how far will that get you? Are you prepared for this? Bye, cya later...nice to meet you, wouldn't want to be you...
You are now out of a job, the pension will return what you put into it or give you 50% if you are eligible. It wont be much because you know that you HAVE to pay for your 100% of your medical benefits yourself now Your chronic illness or injury off duty also prevents you from ever getting any other sort of employment and in Obama's hopey-changey world, even physically fit and qualified people cannot get a job these last several years. How are you ever going to get another job? Who is going to hire you?
You can't collect SSI because we all know that it goes to Pookie or Paco because they got work related injuries when they were shot slinging dope on a corner. (You don't seem to get the same outrage from the pinheads who post on this forum about this topic...odd?) We didn't pay into Social Security, so we can't use it or will get it.
This is why, pinheads, we fought so hard for our contracts long ago. The limited duty part is not in the contract but it was a point of contention with the city, that honor and wisdom finally came out victorious because it was from a time when bosses remembered that they had once worn blue. Both they and us agreed that for the Grace of God, it could be one of us who could get a chronic illness or off duty injury so we would do what we could to take care of each other. We knew the city would never be grateful for everything that we had done for it.
When anyone of us on the street called for help or back up, you always knew that everyone was coming. Everyone risked everything to get there to help you.
I have noticed these last few years though that there is a change in our department. I've seen alot of smart college kids coming on the job, but lacking street smarts...no common sense or dense as rocks when it comes to real life. There also seems to be a huge tendency towards selfishness. Me, me...me. I got mine, go get yours.
It appears that some of today's bosses come from this pinhead crowd and are not thinking about the troops. It appears that everything that the city has been doing to us these last ten years to break our will is working. They are beginning to make us start thinking of only but ourselves. Our old spirit is failing us and we're no longer united. We are not taking care of our own and you know that if we don't then nobody else will. A group that no longer cares for their weak is no longer a viable group and has a very bleak future. Our morale is so low, we have to look up to see an earthworm's belly.
I can see why so many people are leaving the job as soon as they can. You don't want to be the last one off this department that will soon be renamed the Titanic.
Sad.
Unless there is an officer or family member in trouble, i aint chasing or fighting with anyone again!!!!! Let rahm and the other 50 assholes get their ass out here and make arrests. We go through all kinds of nasty people and places and then cant get respect when we are sick or injured!!! This is a direct result of not doing homework on electing and re-electing these dumbass politicians. Rahm aint even been here for a year and look at the stress he has caused on top of the bad guys!
Soon the city won't be able to hire anyone because they will not be offering any beneifts to come on this job!
Hey SCC,
You need to remind everyone about IOD. I got injured on duty 18 years ago. Severe lingering injuries. Surgery and a few more treatments over the years. I now have less then 100 days on this IOD. You get 365 days of medical time when you go IOD for the same injury, for the life of the injury. Most guys don't know this. They seem to think that the time renews over time. This is not true.
HEY SCC,
LONG TERM DISABILITY INSURANCE.
BUY IT FROM THE CITY NOW. Guys it covers 80% of your income. I have had this policy deducted from my checks for 16 years now. its like 25.00 a month and worth every penny. Most guys don't even know they City offers this to us.
To the poster @ 1/14/2012 09:19:00 AM
Read the orders, IOD is part of this mess and there is a Sgt who it has affected. His Dr won't sign off to one of the required duties that the order states all LD officers must be able to perform which is arrest a active resister. Now he has to wait in front of the pension board to try and fight his case. So all of you who act like you know, read the orders because the Sgt is from an IOD incident. It appears a back door game the city has played which doesn't surprise me with the type of mayor we have, his type we all know the joke will save as much as possible at the expense of the injured employees
To whoever wrote you only get 365 days for the rest of your career for non IOD is wrong. However if you are IOD you only get 365 days for the rest of your career. That means if you are seriously injured and continue to work for a few years and need more surgery they will force you on to disability. If you have an injury off duty you can go on the medical for a year return to work, work another year and then you can hit the medical again for the same injury. The real people getting screwed are those that are IOD. If you get injured you are almost better off saying it happened off duty.
Put it to a vote , keep all our holidays , bfd , personal days and duty availability with a 2% a year raise for a total of 10 % and take 12 days medical a year with a bank of 300 days to borrow from .
That would pass 60 to 40 %.
Most coppers don't use 100 medical days during their career.
F the medical roll abusers .
1103 -
I don't know what you are smoking. 4-6 mo off on the medical for pregnancy? Maybe some have "abused" the medical in the past like that, but I sure as hell didn't get that.
And come back and talk to me when men can CHOOSE to be pregnant.
Well for all those who want to be Super Cops, yeah this is not the time and administration to go out there and be the police. Because per IAD all you are required to do is answer your calls and do paper when necessary. Even the evaluations yeah we got NO REAL QUOTA. In the last year a couple of officers sued in California and won because they were being hassled about the evaluations, but like us they got NO QUOTA and they won. So, don't go Rambo and get hurt. Stay healthy, answer the J O B S and do your paper when necessary and that's it. Your health is important. Going out there and trying to be the police yeah it doesn't pay right now. It is not worth it. Stay healthy and out of problems.
Very few employees get more than a few sick days a year. getting 365 in a 20 year career is very generous.
Work related is a bit of a different story and should be handled differently. But realistically, a guy who is so banged up that he is off for more than a year even if it is work related probably is not coming back anyway, and there ought to be some way to deal with that in a fair way.
1/14/2012 11:53:00 PM
Work-related is a BIT of a different story? It's a HELL of a different story, civilian poster.
When one of my guys jumped from an el platform to chase the offender, tore his shin to hell, developed a life-threatening inflammation, yes, it sure was a BIT of a different story. He was off for a couple of months. He came back and is still one heck of an agressive police officer. Should we lose him because he exceeded some arbitrary number of days set by some non-police hack?
Oh, and me. When I grew a couple of softball sized cysts that pushed my internal organs in directions they're not supposed to go in, and I was off for a few weeks every eighteen months for each of four years, but I NEVER HIT THE MEDICAL FOR ANYTHING ELSE IN THIRTY YEARS, should the Dept have lost their investment in all of my specialized training? Penny wise and pound foolish, civilian reader.
One more little issue. We come in contact with TB at a far greater rate than any normal population. We come in contact with AIDS and all manner of communicable diseases. Our heart attack rate is higher than most professions. We deal with sick people on a daily basis. I would think we would be allowed more medical time than most professions, because it's a given we are going to be in contact with more than the 'normal' amount of contagious illness than other people are in the course of their work.
HEY 1/14/2012 01:21:00 AM:
It is not the Medical Section responsibilty to make the YOUR paperwork is rec'd from the treating MD...It is the officer!!! Take charge of your care.....Plus YOUR are getting paid!!!!
1/14/2012 04:36:00 PM
You just don't get it.... You have a doctors appointment the way the medical section is doing things now they require your office notes from your visit, everyone knows it takes doctors a few days to have those typed up and sent to the medical section on letterhead (required). By the time you can reschedule you lost another week if your lucky, are you following...
1/14/2012 03:49:00 AM
The Reason FloP is quiet on this issue is that it Isn't a contract violation.
Since IOD is covered by the current contract....the City can't do anything about it. They are changing how Limited Duty can be applied to OD sickness and injury.
We've been over this in the original post thread on this same topic. the Doomcryers are the ones that are on Limited or Light for Bullshit reasons and now are looking at having to actually start working for a living because their clout can no longer keep them inside and doing nothing.
Anonymous said...
To whoever wrote you only get 365 days for the rest of your career for non IOD is wrong. However if you are IOD you only get 365 days for the rest of your career. That means if you are seriously injured and continue to work for a few years and need more surgery they will force you on to disability. If you have an injury off duty you can go on the medical for a year return to work, work another year and then you can hit the medical again for the same injury. The real people getting screwed are those that are IOD. If you get injured you are almost better off saying it happened off duty.
1/15/2012 11:38:00 AM
Sorry, you are wrong.
Read the order.
Here is the portion that applies to the 365 days of limited duty non-IOD.
(Do not confuse your 365 Medical days with this new 365 Limited duty days - they are two different things)
Fom the order:
Limited Duty
C. Eligible sworn Department members who are not injured in the line of duty or who are ill and are
certified by the Medical Services Section as being able to perform limited duty assignments may be
given available limited duty assignments, subject to the needs of the Department, for a maximum of
365 days, or until they can perform full duty assignments, whichever occurs first.
NOTE: Beginning with the effective date of this directive, the 365 days shall be cumulative
over the course of an eligible sworn member's career.
11:38 Where are you getting this crap?
HEY SCC,
LONG TERM DISABILITY INSURANCE.
BUY IT FROM THE CITY NOW. Guys it covers 80% of your income. I have had this policy deducted from my checks for 16 years now. its like 25.00 a month and worth every penny. Most guys don't even know they City offers this to us.
1/15/2012 09:13:00 AM
Benefits Mgmt City of Chicago states it only covers 60 percent of your income.
We've been over this in the original post thread on this same topic. the Doomcryers are the ones that are on Limited or Light for Bullshit reasons and now are looking at having to actually start working for a living because their clout can no longer keep them inside and doing nothing.
1/15/2012 04:59:00 PM
Wake up asshat!
This applies to all officers.
Someday you will need this benefit and it won't be there.
Then you'll really complain.
Never give up benefits, you never get them back!
The city is just chipping away at our contract.
Got more help in 'the wings' if you get people like Mark W. (of IAD fame) out of his cube and back in uniform, in a beat car. And he's a double dipper, CPD and ch 7 simultaneously.
Put it to a vote , keep all our holidays , bfd , personal days and duty availability with a 2% a year raise for a total of 10 % and take 12 days medical a year with a bank of 300 days to borrow from .
That would pass 60 to 40 %.
Most coppers don't use 100 medical days during their career.
F the medical roll abusers .
Thanks Rahm, now please stay off the blog.
That post came from a long term thinking officer. He's absolutely right. I did a countdown as I was approaching the 15 year mark knowing fully well that that was the magic number to get a pension because of the 20 years of service requirement. You might only get 50% of pay those last four years and have to pay your own insurance as I recall but you still would have a pension for life. And if you didn't need to have the newest car or electronic gadget and tightened your belt a bit, then you could max out your deferred for 15 years and still retire with the equivalent retirement pay of 29 years and a day. Think long term for yourself and your family. The department won't do it for you. Stay safe.
1/14/2012 09:12:00 AM
See these types of people, like this above post, are the ones who have schemed to abuse the system. This mentality, my friends, is why we have this new policy. Officer if you only came on this job to take up space until you hit your "magic number" so you can begin to drain the pension of 5 years of pay that others who are working need... shame on you. You never should have taken the job if you just wanted to get paid for doing less than everyone else.
Please note that the Medical Section does not approve or disapprove your Md request for Ld..the request goes up to HR....The director of HR will make that choice....HR director has many diiferent hats she wears...(Now she is an MD)....
Benefits Mgmt City of Chicago states it only covers 60 percent of your income.
----------------
It is generally non-taxable though.
HEY SCC,
LONG TERM DISABILITY INSURANCE.
BUY IT FROM THE CITY NOW. Guys it covers 80% of your income. I have had this policy deducted from my checks for 16 years now. its like 25.00 a month and worth every penny. Most guys don't even know they City offers this to us.
1/15/2012 09:13:00 AM
Benefits Mgmt City of Chicago states it only covers 60 percent of your income.
1/15/2012 06:15:00 PM
Check again. Fireman 60, Policeman 80.
To who ever posted @ 10:03 on the 15th: Go back to school for a remedial reading course. I did my 29 and a day pushing a beat car on the south side. Knowing your general/special orders and what is actually in your contract makes you a wiser and safer cop. And my advise was geared to you protecting yourself and your family. Where you came up with being a dog ass clearly shows you think about as deep as a mud puddle. Good luck when you step on your dick.
and this is why the city will always win. coppers just cannot stand together. they are taking something away that hurts one group now but will assuredly hurt everyone later. Like the old timers say, don't let them take anything away from you, it will never come back. You have to stand by each other even if someone works inside. This division is what the city wants to see.
IOD is included. We had an officer today who is Limited Duty IOD and was told she had to return to full duty or go on the medical DESPITE her doctor's statements to the contrary. The officer has exhausted all her IOD days. She got injured ON DUTY ...is willing and able to work in a limited duty capacity but the city is forcing her out. Yes, it could happen to any of us.
I am so glad that SCC put up a post on this topic so that we can find out what is really going on. This in fact does effect IOD Limited Duty Officers. These are Officers that were injured while doing their jobs. What does this mean, well for example, if you are detailed to the G8 Summit and happen to sustain a serious,career changing injury, you will have 365 IOD days of which to use, after that if you cannot come back full duty, you must apply for a Limited Duty Assignment, but one of the "NEW" catches is that you must be able to effect an arrest with a active resistor. If your Doctor says you cannot and you are out of IOD days, then you have to apply for Disability benefits and go before the Police Pension Board. This is now quietly happening to Officers now. Be safe out there.
That post came from a long term thinking officer. He's absolutely right. I did a countdown as I was approaching the 15 year mark knowing fully well that that was the magic number to get a pension because of the 20 years of service requirement. You might only get 50% of pay those last four years and have to pay your own insurance as I recall but you still would have a pension for life. And if you didn't need to have the newest car or electronic gadget and tightened your belt a bit, then you could max out your deferred for 15 years and still retire with the equivalent retirement pay of 29 years and a day. Think long term for yourself and your family. The department won't do it for you. Stay safe.
1/14/2012 09:12:00 AM
See these types of people, like this above post, are the ones who have schemed to abuse the system. This mentality, my friends, is why we have this new policy. Officer if you only came on this job to take up space until you hit your "magic number" so you can begin to drain the pension of 5 years of pay that others who are working need... shame on you. You never should have taken the job if you just wanted to get paid for doing less than everyone else.
1/15/2012 10:03:00 PM
I came on this job healthy if you must know. Here it's is fast forward. At the medical section behind the curtain just know in the last month your the fourth person who comes in here with cancer. I was number 4 what are the odds. I can tell you where I've work but you think I came on this job with a number in mind, kid I'll be smoking the same thing your on pretty soon.
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