Curious Info
From someone who might (or might not) have inside info:
- Karen Conway (R and D) has been called/notified to appear as a rebuttal witness for Tuesday...
Rebutting what? We haven't seen much that would require an extensive rebuttal. In fact, the judge has purposefully discounted/disallowed any exempts from testifying about the shooting, so why call the Director of R and D?
Labels: events
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
48 Comments:
Training bulletin on the knife?
Just guessing but maybe the GO the prosecution kept referring to was not the same one in effect at the time of the shooting. Or something similar.
Most likely how an Officers safety bulletin comes to be. How the source of information is obtained or gathered and determined to be credible, so that it can be approved and disseminated. Who, has the final authority for said bulletin to go to print. Which then does in fact become a reliable tangible article, for law enforcement knowledge. Information which an officer can then rely on as accurate and true.
A KNIFE THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE A GUN !!!!!!
Thoughts & Prayers for JVD and Family.
They’ll probably just ask questions about the use of force policy that was in place back then
Yeah that doesn’t really make much sense to me at the moment either.
But it DOES at least help me get a better handle on the timeline for when closing arguments will begin. Nice to get a little better picture of when days off will start getting cancelled.
I’m nearly certain that this will go to the jury Tuesday after closings. A judge is always very accommodating to a jury and especially in this case. Why would he ruin their holiday weekend and stick them in a downtown hotel? Not happening. Will there even be any rooms available during the marathon? The jury may have made plans for the holiday and so may have the judge. There’s also the minor problem of the Chicago Marathon. Major national event and resources are stretched thin. The judge seems to have really slowed things down to a snails pace all of a sudden. I can see him wrapping things up this week and telling everyone to enjoy the long weekend and be ready to go Tuesday with closings. I think he’d rather have them deliberate during a boring week. Just a guess. Makes sense.
R and D writes drafts all of the policies that eventually get approved by the sup. This includes use of force. They are gonna go step by step in the use of force order with her and ask what he did was within what the order says. It may not be state law but if you show him violating the order then you show recklessness and that folks is the key word for the 3rd charge they are seeking and the one I think they will get... reckless homicide will be the lone guilty he gets. He will get 8 years IDOC and be out in 4 because reckless is still 50 percent
Because Pappas kicked their ass on firearms training and G.O. requirement as instructed by the academy. Their buttholes are hurting now and the only way to attempt to fend off such a loss is to have R&D claim otherwise. Free JVD!!!!
Perhaps regarding something in the General Orders that people testified to last week.
I'm guessing there shooting training and if it jives with directives, bulletins, etc...
Because she is in charge of writing General Orders
Who?
Wouldn’t you think that if the judge didn’t allow the defense lawyers to call in any of the exempts that saw the video and ruled the shooting as “justified”,would be grounds for an appeal if JVD was to be convicted? I wonder what he judges reasoning is for not letting any of them testify.
Exempt? Who will show her where the courthouse is located?
Since when do department policy, department directives, and academy instructions match? It used to be that the range told you to shoot to kill, the gym showed you how to stop a threat with a night stick, and law classes told you how you are liable if you use the training you were getting!
This is why she gets a "merit pick"!!!!!!!!
Chicago Police Department
General Order G03-02-03
A sworn member is justified in using force likely to cause death or great bodily harm only when he or
she reasonably believes that such force is necessary:
1.
to prevent death or great bodily harm to the sworn member or to another person, or:
2.
to
prevent an arrest from being defeated by resistance or escape
and the sworn member
reasonably believes that the person to be arrested:
a.
has committed or has attempted to commit a
forcible felony
which involves the
infliction, threatened infliction, or threatened use of physical force likely to cause
death or great bodily harm or;
b.
is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon or;
c.
otherwise indicates that he or she will endanger human life or inflict great bodily harm
unless arrested without delay.
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57be2-1290de63-7db12-90f0-e9796f7bbbc1a2d2.pdf?hl=true
BOOM there is the order VanDyke "not Guilty" if the jury realizes the law and it is spelled out plainly and simply! Thinking not long ago this all would of faded had Eddie been a brave guy and kept with the truth and not the rahm political narrative which is "fake news!"
Here you go Eddie and phony gold badge crew:
Elgin chief to crowd: Come at cop with a knife, 'you're probably getting shot'
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20180313/elgin-chief-to-crowd-come-at-cop-with-a-knife-youre-probably-getting-shot
Lastly why are exempts "exempted" from getting on that stand and asked why they justified shooting then suddenly changed their minds and quickly retired with huge pensions as they let this officer to be run over by the political lying circus bus? why eddie? why mcnothing?
Ahh Gary when did rahm view the tape video? Why are you so scared?
It's about orders. Of course they get someone who has never worked the street. Also, hopefully they bring up that orders are in no prohibits officers from taking he action they deem necessary to protect themselves or others. They are guidelines when the city chooses but also hard and fast rules when they chose as well. Can't have it both ways.
I am fucking livid about the exempts not being able to be called to testify.
Let me get this straight. So the exempts have the power to impose disciplinary action (including suspension and firing) against an officer based upon their conclusion as to whether a shooting was justified or not, but somehow it would not be proper to have them testify in court on this issue?
Are they competent to testify? Check
Would their testimony be relevant? Check.
Then what's the fucking problem, your honor? The Democratic Machine has their foot on your neck? Or maybe trying to bake in some reversable error so the case gets tossed on appeal?
Further, there has to be a paper trail of CPD brass who documented their decision that this was a justified shooting. Where is it? Why can't it be introduced as evidence?
I just don't get it. But if there is anyone who can explain this, I'd appreciate it.
Breaking: Trial cancelled for today with no explanation other than "difficulties"
While R&D writes does some of the research on General Orders, they are then bounced around for review, revision and approval.
Department and City Legal Affairs both see if is OK. And Corporation Counsel.
So if the Director of R&D is called to testify on policy issues, why not the exempt staff that gave the OK nod?
No trial again today. Sick juror. There’s no way they will do closings this week and stick the jury in a hotel for Columbus Day weekend.
Digging through HR files for inconsistencies?
Emphasis on digging, real hard because they, the Pros have nothing.
The October surprise a dud.
Batten down the hatches.
HR trying to be the city savior from community destruction as well as their own well-being to avoid any uniformed outdoor duty lasting longer than a smoke on the plaza.
R and D has regular police officers writing general orders and then walk her through the bullet points where she signs off on them. That office of house mice is responsible for writing the rules to which working coppers have to abide by. Ironic isn’t it?
Sign of a desperation move by a prosecution which has nothing?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Yeah that doesn’t really make much sense to me at the moment either.
But it DOES at least help me get a better handle on the timeline for when closing arguments will begin. Nice to get a little better picture of when days off will start getting cancelled.
Nice to guess but all the trying to figure when the verdict comes in or the closing arguments is a waste of time. Look what happened today. Juror gets sick or possibly hung over after the Bears and Cubs victories and the case gets pushed back a day or more if witnesses have a scheduling conflict.
Not a cop!
JVD is a hero!
No court today because of sick juror. So it will probably not go to jury this week, only three days since they have been taking Friday off. Will get interesting.
The difference in verbage pre jvd video and post jvd video is striking. Each side will attempt to use the one most favorable but as they are date stamped the one that matters is the one in effect then not the one in use now. She will most likely be asked to explain the difference in the orders etc
Why would the judge prevent any exempt members of the CPD from testifying ? It has been stated, in the media, that the exempts who viewed the video, with McCarthy, all said it was a good shooting. So why not bring them into court? Either the CPD had very bad leaders, who should not have been in the positions they were in, or it was a good shooting. OR -- does the judge really have a live in-girlfriend that was a former exempt member of the CPD ? As usual more questions than answers....
She will testify that JVD followed the law and did what was necessary to go home safe and prevent anyone else from being maimed or killed by this crazed high on drugs killer!
Want a fact, my cousin works for a large financial institution in downtown Chicago and she just received a memo that when the verdict is going to be given they are allowed to leave work and go home as expeditiously as possible!
The "rumor" of state police coming up and being stationed from downstate here is also true! We all know how it is affecting CPD coppers plans, with days canceled and longer tours! Looks like the animals who think they will destroy key parts of this city will be met with force to stop them!
Don't think for 1 minute many if not all concealed carry holders,retired coppers,active coppers and military trained good people are not ready, they want a bloodbath they will get it, people are tired of the democrats favoring the criminal elements under the fake news moniker of "this be racist" that race card has been dealt and thrown down!
The fake dishonest news media from cnn to the local media is doing everything and anything to make the savages attack innocent people, never forget they get pulitzer prizes for reporting the violence and the more they light the wicks the more awards they see in their pathetic visions!
In closing not revealing the location of the beat car your using rightfully to protect the area on fixed post west end of 008, but Commander Ron why not use a "house cat/mouse," to sit on fixed posts allowing the beat cars to actively patrol the area, that would be the smart move right? You have how many inside as usual?
The Department's orders are drafted in the Research And Development Section. They conduct research on what the order topic is, and then the order is drafted by the people who did the the research; usually a PO or Civilian overseen by a sergeant. One the order is put together it goes to their civilian director for authorization to staff the order. When an order is staffed it is sent out to all of the exempt members for review and input or recommendations. Once those are reviewed and the order is modified with the information it gets a final review for compliance and is sent the the superintendant to be signed. All of the exempts are supposed to review the orders before they are released. Some make operational, legal and administrative recommendations, which I'm sure fall on deaf ears, but the all have a hand in the order development. The director of R&D is a civilian with no police experie ce or skills. It went to a civilian director about a decade or so ago, so all they can do is read and interpret the intent of the order. Maybe, just maybe the defense has had some foresight and is using this as a building block to call several exempts to the stand, not to speak of their ruling on this particular shooting, but the orders JVD was operating under?
Anonymous said...
Exempt? Who will show her where the courthouse is located?
10/01/2018 08:20:00 AM
A retired Sgt. that came back as a Director when they were phasing out a sworn Command spot.
Remember when a jury was of your peers ? Meaning people who know the defendant.
R and D has regular police officers writing general orders and then walk her through the bullet points where she signs off on them. That office of house mice is responsible for writing the rules to which working coppers have to abide by. Ironic isn’t it?
10/01/2018 11:32:00 AM
It’s way better than a civilian writing them. Fuck that shit.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's about orders. Of course they get someone who has never worked the street. Also, hopefully they bring up that orders are in no prohibits officers from taking he action they deem necessary to protect themselves or others. They are guidelines when the city chooses but also hard and fast rules when they chose as well. Can't have it both ways.
10/01/2018 09:06:00 AM
Karen worked with Paul Bauer in gangs. She was in the shit when you were wacking it to
Sears catalog lingerie ads in junior high.
Between a crooked court system, a disaster FOP union and the knit wits running it and a screwed up CPD, we are all fucked!
Agree with01:51
Why didn’t they put every exempt on the stand who signed off on this shooting agreeing it was a good shooting?
Anyone want to explain this ?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I am fucking livid about the exempts not being able to be called to testify.
Let me get this straight. So the exempts have the power to impose disciplinary action (including suspension and firing) against an officer based upon their conclusion as to whether a shooting was justified or not, but somehow it would not be proper to have them testify in court on this issue?
Are they competent to testify? Check
Would their testimony be relevant? Check.
Then what's the fucking problem, your honor? The Democratic Machine has their foot on your neck? Or maybe trying to bake in some reversable error so the case gets tossed on appeal?
Further, there has to be a paper trail of CPD brass who documented their decision that this was a justified shooting. Where is it? Why can't it be introduced as evidence?
I just don't get it. But if there is anyone who can explain this, I'd appreciate it.
10/01/2018 09:34:00 AM
---------
Would you want any of these goofs defending you?
These clouted clowns would be more likely to say something stupid and doom JVD.
Worked with Karen twenty something years ago and she was the real police then and from what I understand,continued to be throughout her career,
I am fucking livid about the exempts not being able to be called to testify.
Let me get this straight. So the exempts have the power to impose disciplinary action (including suspension and firing) against an officer based upon their conclusion as to whether a shooting was justified or not, but somehow it would not be proper to have them testify in court on this issue?
Are they competent to testify? Check
Would their testimony be relevant? Check.
Then what's the fucking problem, your honor? The Democratic Machine has their foot on your neck? Or maybe trying to bake in some reversable error so the case gets tossed on appeal?
Further, there has to be a paper trail of CPD brass who documented their decision that this was a justified shooting. Where is it? Why can't it be introduced as evidence?
I just don't get it. But if there is anyone who can explain this, I'd appreciate it.
-------------
You are new, check.
Don't think for 1 minute many if not all concealed carry holders,retired coppers,active coppers and military trained good people are not ready, they want a bloodbath they will get it, people are tired of the.......
Take it easy dude. It's not that serious....
If you want to know the inside trial scoop check to see what day Rahms wife Amy will be flying out to California to "visit the kid". Another tidbit is Pritzker getting prefential treatment from Il Nat'l Guard to protect his Hyatts. Look for them to be housing Guardsman and extra security to cost him nothing and have multiple perimeters around the hotels. Anyone living in the 4100 Block of N.Hermitage also relax, the Guardsman are cordoning off the whole neighborhood, to stop the burning of Emanuels house. Assets are already at the Gary Airport and Lane Stadium to be used for landing choppers or evacuating Emanuel away from the rabid lynchmob. The powers that be want Emanuel to be at an undisclosed location so don't expect him to be at Police HQ or 911 Center they don't want masses of people trying to get to him. He'll be doing remote teleconferences because he is a coward.
Putting on exempts opens up the electronic trail right to you know who.
I cant say positively but knowing which command level people were involved, there are a few that I know would jump at the chance to help JVD.
Gen Orders have nothing to do with this trial other than refuting the official misconduct. This is not an admin trial. All that applies is the state law and the federal rulings on police use of force. He was justified. Period.
Two things: first, Karen Conway is a retired police sergeant who was hired back to run R and D. One of McCarthy’s few good moves. She was the real police while you were in diapers. Asshole.
Second, “reckless homicide will be the lone guilty he gets.” I sure as Hell hope you’re not the police. You’re an idiot. “Reckless homicide”? Really?
The judge was told not to allow the exempts to testify. Simple as that, they are afraid of where that might lead. Its not about justice its about covering the ass of those in power and the power I am referring to does not reside in the CPD. Nothing and I mean nothing in Chicago is honest. From getting on the job to getting promoted to getting elected to office its crooked. So don't expect justice you won't get it. Just look at the farce the Supreme Court has turned into and thats national not city.
So the exempts have the power to impose disciplinary action (including suspension and firing) against an officer based upon their conclusion as to whether a shooting was justified or not, but somehow it would not be proper to have them testify in court on this issue?
============
The exempts can only decide whether a cop violated department policy or not. That is the limit of their say-so in this kind of matter. They get no say at all in whether it is prosecuted or not.
So while they may be experts on departmental policy, they are likely not experts on what the law is on this matter, and whether the department thinks they violated department policy or not is mostly irrelevant to a criminal case.
As far as people up the food chain testifying about the cover-up, the cover-up is also irrelevant to whether JVD committed a crime or not, unless you want to use it as evidence against him by claiming he was responsible for the cover-up.
The judge is not allowed by the rules of evidence to permit irrelevant testimony.
The defense really needs to call JVD's brother in law in as a character witness. The prosecution opened the door with their highly prejudicial use of the term "black boy" in their opening statement . JVD's brother in law would make a good rebuttal of any racial angle to JVD's UOF.
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