We Care About Officers (not really) Part II
A bunch of people misinterpreted yesterday's post about the FOID card restrictions, claiming that we want mentally ill people to keep guns (wrong) and that cops should be subject to the same rules as anyone else (sure, with conditions). So here's a clarification of our position for the slower ones:
- If you have an FOID card (a condition of employment in Chicago) and you came on the job, passing all tests and psych/mental evaluations, and then due to stresses unique to the job, develop a mental illness, you should be permitted by law, statute, ordinance and policy to attempt to cure the job-related illness in order to properly and safely serve as a police officer.
Keep in mind this would have to be somehow connected to the job, otherwise you get Klinger from M*A*S*H trying to Section 8 his way out, and there would be plenty trying to get some sort of disability pension. A vigorous screening process should (theoretically) be able to weed out those unsuited to become the police, but that isn't likely to happen in as corrupt a town as Chicago.
We haven't practiced psychiatry since Lucy van Pelt took down her cardboard box, but anyone could pick out a dozen people who never should have made it past Step One. And we can name more than a few people who were definitely and genuinely mentally affected from something job related. The longer you stay, the greater the chance of you seeing something mentally devastating. CPD shouldn't be depriving them of their livelihood if they are truly attempting to get better.
Discuss. Politely.
We haven't practiced psychiatry since Lucy van Pelt took down her cardboard box, but anyone could pick out a dozen people who never should have made it past Step One. And we can name more than a few people who were definitely and genuinely mentally affected from something job related. The longer you stay, the greater the chance of you seeing something mentally devastating. CPD shouldn't be depriving them of their livelihood if they are truly attempting to get better.
Discuss. Politely.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
35 Comments:
I have long said that if you were psychologically cleared to come on this job but now for some reason you are not, the proper path if you can't be fixed is a Duty Disability Pension.
Lucy had a last name ?
Psychology and psychiatry are not an exact science. A police officer suffering from a mental illness which requires inpatient hospitalization should not be on the job. The liability to everyone is too great and the diagnosis itself proves it is an unhealthy environment for the officer. If you have been diagnosed with a mental illness, you should not be allowed to own a firearm. An implementation of any system to help an officer diagnosed as such would be rife with bullshit and you would be putting a band-aid on the issue. Seriously, say this copper runs into some shit that fucks him up. His brain is scrambled and he goes for help. Comes back and what, waits for the next situation to fuck him up? Nevermind the copper himself. What about his fellow officers? His family? So then what? The copper has PTSD now so gets disability? Yeah, no one will abuse that. Shit happens. It's an imperfect system. There will never be any system which is perfect. The system in place works for the majority. Some will fall through. There's utopian answer where all will be magically saved. Same goes for suicide. Sometimes, there's nothing you can do.
Bravo, SCC. Unfortunately, it will be business as usual.
Not a cop, but
Please get the help you need. We pay you to act professionally in situations that we know would drive us into insane rages, or the depths of despair. We should be equally willing to pay you to take the time and effort to keep yourself healthy, physically and mentally.
Please do not be afraid to ask for help. We will support you.
Been trying to get into peer support for years. CPD barely ever has classes to train you. And sadly when they do, bosses send "their guys" so they can use it to promote their merit bump later. Department is sick
I wonder how many heads that Peanuts reference whooshed right over?
Anonymous said...
I have long said that if you were psychologically cleared to come on this job but now for some reason you are not, the proper path if you can't be fixed is a Duty Disability Pension.
11/08/2018 12:37:00 AM
Have you looked at the funding for the pension lately? The punch and is in Sirius Lee dire financial conditions predictions are the pants he could go completely belly up by the year 2020 that’s right 2020 this is the most important issues facing our contract or anything else in the Chicago Police Department forget about getting any raise forget about all that for now Until the pension is fully funded find it and let’s not forget that Daley’s family What is freely given $60 million of our money that was squandered and lost whoever at the Pension Board authorize this should’ve been prosecuted already!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=d_zGxPfWYM0
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Financials/audit_reports/2017_FINAL_Audit_Report.pdf
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Financials/actuarial/2017_ACTUARIAL_VALUATION_REPORT(FINAL).pdf
*You can watch the video you can read the reports this is must read material it spells it out and pretty simple terms when you look at it you do not have to be a certified public accountant do understand this this is very serious and very dire time to start on the FOP call the Pension Board I did you can ask them about this is they will tell you straight out how it is! This was done by the Democratic politicians who have taken it from the pension fund or not put in the amounts required!
Now does Aldie have a sale on cat food and maybe as a treat canned dog food? Does anyone know where I could get a large refrigerator box so I could put myself and my wife and maybe a nice location that we could stay yet! Think about it the mayor has taken away the police retirees healthcare putting them in a situation that is untenable and now the pension could go bankrupt what do they want all these police officers who many have PTSD from working this job and also some that were soldiers running around the streets without a pension?
If you need help please go get it. Forget about about the fact that the department will pull your FOID card and assign you to desk duty. Ride out the remainder of your career on desk duty. There is no shame in seeking professional help.
The same standards for the police, as civilians. If you are mentally disturbed or ill, than you should not be carrying a gun. the police in England carry a billy club on patrol, but few carry firearms.
If you aint got the FOID you would be considered disabled.
PENSION.
The pension BOARD does not want any part of this WHOLE LOTS of people on silly pills on this department.
Don’t discount the constant low grade stress that comes from knowing down deep that the police are hated in communist Chicago. You don’t live normally here.
Policing is, in general, a high stress job. We see what NO ONE should ever have to see.......
Police are, in general, motivated people who believe in doing good, believe in right and wrong, believe in good and evil, love home and family, love their country.
Police also have the same everyday problems that civilians have.....mortgages, tuitions, marriages that may or not be stable, children who may or may not be decent kids, parents who need help or care-taking, illnesses, and on and on.
In my 29+ years, I have seen and will take to my grave unspeakable tragedies......kids beaten to death, a 3 year old dunked in a bucket of scalding hot water cuz he wouldn't stop crying (and was at the hospital where they slit his legs open from hip to toe so his skin wouldn't tear),
suicides where a persons brain was all over the wall, 5 kids in a Cabrini Green apartment all under 7 with no adult, no food, roaches climbing all over, a motorcyclist who did nothing but wait at a red light plowed into by a drunk who threw the 19 year old 45 feet into the air, and I held his hand as he died......and those are the ones I can talk about.....some cases were SO EVIL that I find it hard to think about them.....
So yes, do we as police sometime need help? Real help? Sure we do, and we shouldn't be punished if we ask for it.....especially in today's climate where as police, we are hated, mocked, vilified as "the enemy" for nothing more than a political agenda....
Lucy charged .5, she posted her prices, unlike the real shrinks
There should not be foid cards in the first place. When purchasing a firearm legally, a person goes through the same federal eye-balling as done for foid. Political redundancy at its money grabbing worst. Demorats have no fucking shame. Hopefully, gun issues will be clarified soon in a conservative supreme court, and shut up the gun grabbers for good about shit like this and other gun issues, like unconstitutional semi auto "assault" rifle bans and more.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Psychology and psychiatry are not an exact science. A police officer suffering from a mental illness which requires inpatient hospitalization should not be on the job. The liability to everyone is too great and the diagnosis itself proves it is an unhealthy environment for the officer. If you have been diagnosed with a mental illness, you should not be allowed to own a firearm. An implementation of any system to help an officer diagnosed as such would be rife with bullshit and you would be putting a band-aid on the issue. Seriously, say this copper runs into some shit that fucks him up. His brain is scrambled and he goes for help. Comes back and what, waits for the next situation to fuck him up? Nevermind the copper himself. What about his fellow officers? His family? So then what? The copper has PTSD now so gets disability? Yeah, no one will abuse that. Shit happens. It's an imperfect system. There will never be any system which is perfect. The system in place works for the majority. Some will fall through. There's utopian answer where all will be magically saved. Same goes for suicide. Sometimes, there's nothing you can do.
11/08/2018 12:55:00 AM
the pension for anyone is in jeopardy have you looked into the funding formula? The amount we actually have? It is under 23% "danger will Robinson," don't count on the pension here! Don't believe it look here:
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/Financials.html
Call FOP: 312-733-7776
Now on an important not we lost another Blue brother,this man was set to retire this year may he RIP, more and more crazy's running around, people everywhere are totally losing their dam minds:
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/11/08/ron-helus-ventura-county-sheriff-sergeant-killed/
Sheriff’s Sgt. Ron Helus ‘Died A Hero’ Thousand Oaks Shooting, Wanted To Retire This Year
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/11/08/ron-helus-ventura-county-sheriff-sergeant-killed/
Drop the FOID card requirement for condition of employment. It’s that easy.
Anonymous said...
I have long said that if you were psychologically cleared to come on this job but now for some reason you are not, the proper path if you can't be fixed is a Duty Disability Pension.
11/08/2018 12:37:00 AM
I agree with this writer. Most forms of mental illness show up in a person before the age of 25; eating disorders, depression, anxiety,phobias, panic disorders are the most common ones. And cops do get PTSD and should get disability.
The City of Chicago doesn't give a fuck about you or your family!!!!!!
It's my non-professional impression that there are "degrees" of mental illness, and that there's a gap between "clinically depressed" and "utterly fucked up". Telling someone who is clinically depressed that they're going to make their situation worse (e.g. take away their FOID and impede their ability to work) if they admit to wanting to talk to someone about it is going to have the OPPOSITE effect desired. Instead of seeking help, they're going to cover it up and pretend it doesn't exist. It might get worse. It might cause outward problems. It might lead to suicide.
I agree that guys who are "utterly fucked up" should probably have their FOIDs revoked. But for the undiagnosed clinically depressed who just need a little help, it doesn't make sense. There are plenty of other ways for them to hurt themselves and others without a firearm. I'm afraid this doesn't have so much to do with policing, as it relates to the ongoing effort to put ever increasing barriers between people and gun ownership. If you know something is wrong, at least talk to a friend or a priest. They're not yet legally-obliged to rat you out, as far as I know.
Your clarification further looks like you want a different standard for LEOs and law-abiding civilians when it comes to firearms ownership. You want the ability for the LEO to "cure" the issue and therefore keep his/her ability to own a firearm. Civilians have no such capability.
Once a civilian has had a mental illness issue, that's it for life. That's pretty clear on the 4473 form. So it should be the same for a LEO.
CPD shouldn't be depriving them of their livelihood if they are truly attempting to get better.
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Take some time off and recuperate. that is what medical days are for.
In line with caring for officers Mendoza has family on CPD and says she’s in favor of unions and will run for mayor. This insignificant blog per the exempt idiots has many reading it, Susan Mendoza 1 question will you be sure to fund the police pension if we vote for you? Looking forward to hearing the answer thank you!
"A police officer suffering from a mental illness which requires inpatient hospitalization should not be on the job. The liability to everyone is too great and the diagnosis itself proves it is an unhealthy environment for the officer. If you have been diagnosed with a mental illness, you should not be allowed to own a firearm. An implementation of any system to help an officer diagnosed as such would be rife with bullshit and you would be putting a band-aid on the issue."
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The issue with your analysis is that it only goes one step out and doesn't consider how people will react to it. Your approach may actually INCREASE the risks it aims to cut.
If an officer comes forward and says, "Hey, I think I might have PTSD and need some help," under your policy they lose their firearm and perhaps their career. Don't forget that most officers support families and losing their income stream is not an option.
That's a heavy disincentive to self-reporting an issue when it may be curable or manageable. So, just weighing costs and benefits leads me to believe that these costs and the ever present stigma of mental illness would cause officers to hide their issues, leading to the worst possible outcome: untreated, compromised officers on the street.
I suffer from depression and taking care of it on my own with help from my physician. I don't trust this department to help me with this. They will fuck you over.
To the guy with 29 on the job. Thanks for your service but no one with any mental issues needs to be on street with gun. Period end of discussion. This is not punishment but common sense. Again sorry you saw such tragedy but that does go with the job you signed up for. Stay strong and get out soon. Hope you have become one of the Fetal ones.
No wonder people on the job don't get help. When they do, they risk losing their jobs. Civilians think they shouldn't be treated "special". Well when it's a condition of employment, it's a whole different ballgame. I wouldn't trust this department whatsoeverto "take care" of me. We have been shown te and again how expendable we are.
After what just happened in Ca. Still think the allowing mentally ill cops to carry a gun a good idea. You are always mentioning the PTSD that cops get because of the job. Willing to bet based on the Marines past deeds that he was suffering from PTSD. Mental issues = desk duty and never a gun again. The lives you save might be yours or your partners. Think about the logic of it and not the emotional side.
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/Financials.html
Go to the audited financial reports and go to page 10
Our fund after paying out the pensions, then collecting the money from the employees, employer and investments had a total gain of 257.1 million in 2017. How is the pension going broke supposedly in the next few years if we increase the bottom line by 257 milluon
MANAGEMENT’S DISCUSSION AND ANALYSIS (unaudited)
Changes in Fiduciary Net Position
The following table reflects a comparative summary of various changes in fiduciary net position:
Changes in Fiduciary Net Position
(In millions)
Years Ended December 31, 2017, 2016 and 2015
2017–2016
2017 2016
103.0 $ 101.5 494.5 281.6
411.4 142.1 0.8 0.6 0.1 1.4
1,009.8 527.2
2015 $
Change . % .
ADDITIONS
Member contributions Employer contributions Net investment gain (loss)
and investment income Securities lending income Miscellaneous income
Total additions
DEDUCTIONS
$
$
107.6 $ 1.5 1.5% 582.3 212.9 75.6
(6.0) 0.7 3.1
687.7
678.4 7.8 0.4 4.1
690.7
(3.0) $ 451.0 (232.6)%
269.3 0.2
189.5 33.3
(1.3)
482.6 91.5
32.3 4.6 (0.7) (6.5)
-- --
(92.9)
Annuity, disability, and death
benefits 737.9 705.6
Refunds of contributions 10.0 10.7 OPEB expense 0.5 0.5 Administrative expenses 4.3 4.3
Total deductions 752.7 721.1 Net increase/(decrease) $ 257.1 $ (193.9) $
31.6 4.4
Net position restricted for pension benefits
Beginning of year $ 2,865.0 Ending of year $ 3,122.1
$ 3,058.9 $ 3,062.0 $ (193.9) (6.3)% $ 2,865.0 $ 3,058.9 $ 257.1 9.0 %
The Fund experienced an increase in fiduciary net position of $257.1 million in 2017. While an overall increase in the net fiduciary position was experienced, benefit payments also continue to increase each year. The Fund experienced a large increase in retirements of active members in 2017. Contractual terms between the employer and the Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge 7, provided that police officers of at least 55 years of age, retiring prior to June 1, 2017, with over 20 years of service, receive free healthcare until the age of Medicare eligibility. Given these provisions, significant increases in retirements were experienced prior to June 1, 2017.
As noted, due to the enactment of PA 99-0506, the 2015 employer contributions were not collected in their entirety. The amount collected was approximately $173 million less than recorded as of December 31, 2015. For financial reporting purposes, this amount was reflected as a reduction to the 2016 employer contributions. Employer contributions for 2017 reflect the appropriate funding per the provisions of the Illinois Pension Statutes.
.....The issue with your analysis is that it only goes one step out and doesn't consider how people will react to it. Your approach may actually INCREASE the risks it aims to cut.....
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No, your interpretation of my analysis is wrong. My analysis suggests that if someone is fucked up in the head enough (they need to be hospitalized) there is no system for "saving" them for the job. It is that person's responsibility to man up so to speak. Thinking there is a paradise where everyone gets what they need and everyone thrives is foolish and naive. We are talking about a very VERY small percentage of the police. You do what's good for the majority in this situation. And that is getting a firearm out of their, legal at least, possession.
Speaking of foid cards should people on public aid for food, housing, medical and whatever else qualify as having the right to own firearms ?
If a man doesn't work he shall not eat !
Our fund after paying out the pensions, then collecting the money from the employees, employer and investments had a total gain of 257.1 million in 2017. How is the pension going broke supposedly in the next few years if we increase the bottom line by 257 milluon
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Even though the cash balance is improving, actuarially it is not near enough money to pay out the expected future benefits.
As time goes on, more and more people retire at higher payout rates, plus existing pensioners get raises as well. That money has to come from somewhere. It is supposed to be collected along the way so it is available when it needs to be paid out. But the amount collected ahead of time is nowhere near what it needs to be to fund future payouts.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Our fund after paying out the pensions, then collecting the money from the employees, employer and investments had a total gain of 257.1 million in 2017. How is the pension going broke supposedly in the next few years if we increase the bottom line by 257 milluon
===========
Even though the cash balance is improving, actuarially it is not near enough money to pay out the expected future benefits.
As time goes on, more and more people retire at higher payout rates, plus existing pensioners get raises as well. That money has to come from somewhere. It is supposed to be collected along the way so it is available when it needs to be paid out. But the amount collected ahead of time is nowhere near what it needs to be to fund future payouts.
11/09/2018 04:32:00 PM
Agree half way. The video that was shown said the pension fund will be broke in 2021, in 2 or 3 years. That just isn’t going to happen. My point was the fund made money in 2017 and you cannot go broke if you are making more money than you are paying out. PERIOD. As more money is going to be paid out more money is coming in at a higher rate because the active sworn will also being paying in at a higher rate because it will be higher because of future raises. Also more po’s have been hired in the last few years outpacing the retirees
At some point it might catch up if the stock market drops , but not by 2021
It is hard to know with any certainty just when the pension fund will go broke. Actuarially it is only funded at less than a quarter of its liabilities. Whether it runs out of money in three years or five years or eight, is not especially important. Without some change either to funding or payouts it will run out of money within a decade.
2017 was an unusually good year for investment returns but one cannot count on having years like that every year.
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