Full Prisons? Low Crime?
- For years, it was one of the GOP’s most potent political epithets – labeling a Democrat “soft on crime.”
But the Obama White House has taken the first steps in decades to move away from a strict lock-‘em-up mentality on crime – easing sentences for crack cocaine possession, launching a top-to-bottom review of sentencing policies and even sounding open to reviewing guidelines that call for lengthy prison terms for people convicted of child pornography offenses.
The moves – still tentative, to be sure — suggest that President Barack Obama’s aides are betting that the issue has lost some of its punch with voters more worried about terrorism and recession. In one measure of the new political climate surrounding the issue, the Obama administration actually felt free to boast that the new crack-sentencing bill would go easier on some drug criminals.
Yet another campaign issue for the fall. What are these guys thinking?
Labels: crime, national politics
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
31 Comments:
There's over 2million People currently incarcerated in the US. Does that make us any safer?
Alot of these are drug offenders w/no lengthy backgrounds. The problem the system is overburdened unfortunately the real bad actors are released to ease budgetary constraints only to commit more mayhem. Obviously Lockem up Lockem up isnt the answer, it's failed miserably. Like it or not the sentencing guidelines need to be revamped.That's reality.
They’re assured of getting the crack dealer vote and it’s bigger then you think.
I'm very much pro law enforcement officers, but this is one issue where I probably disagree with a lot of cops.
Our criminal justice system- and sentencing in particular- has really gone off the rails. In too many cases, we're soft on genuinely bad guys. In other cases, we're far too harsh on people who have made otherwise isolated, dumb decisions. As far as sentencing and criminal justice goes, the ideological outliers have grown to become much larger than the happy median.
I agree that predatory, violent offenders should be locked away for a long, long time and if upon release, don't change their ways, adios. Enjoy life in the cage.
I also agree that people who show a total aversion to rehabilitation should be slam-dunked and locked away for the duration (kind of a catch-22 here, since we jettisoned all meaningful efforts towards rehabilitation some time ago and went to a straight warehousing model).
That said, there's an awful lot of gray area in this issue and for the past 40 years or so, we've taken a black and white stance, which has failed, miserably. Miserably.
Cops are probably the least naive people on earth- and equally cynical, for perfectly understandable reasons. If John Q Public had to see the shit you guys see on a daily basis, he'd be that way too. Still, on this issue, there comes a time when cynicism must be parked in favor of something more considerate.
None of this is in defense of being soft on Murdering Pookie or Chester the Molester or Shithead Burglar or Jagoff the Mugger... Fuck them. That said, we have far too many laws that criminalize far too many things (even beyond just the drug issue), a judicial/justice system that is totally broken and a larger culture that is paying a grave price for our 'warehousing' model.
This is one issue where change is needed and "soft on crime" sorts of fearmongering has prevented it from happening since Willie Horton became a household name.
One mans opinion, agree or disagree as you please.
Do these people get anything? Soft on crime, soft on terrorism, soft on immigration, tough on businesses that employ us, big on intrusive, big brother government, let people do what they want, big on spending and big on taxes. Where the hell does the boat from here go so I can get the *&^% away from here?
I'd love for these Democrats to explain to me where this "strict lock-‘em-up mentality on crime" supposedly exists in the first place. Because jurisdictions controlled by Democrats certainly utilize no such policy. Instead, they seem to follow the "strict catch-and-release revolving door mentality on crime."
Just like all the crying the liberals did in New York over the Rockefeller drug laws, as if crackheads were getting sentenced to years behind bars for their latest crack pipe collar. If only.
What are they thinking, you ask?
They're motivating their base. They need every last drug addict, welfare recipient, gangbanger,illegal alien (yes, many vote) and victim of society to come out in November.
They know they face a disaster in the Congressional elections without Obama at the top of the ticket to motivate dog-asses to vote.
What BO and his band of socialists were thinking is that more lenient sentencing guidelines will lead to more unrest and crime in the streets which will in turn weaken the USA making it ripe for the eventual installation of a socialist government that will be part of the new world order. BO and his ilk do not believe in American exceptionalism and want to bring our standard of living down to that of European countries and beyond. He believes that the USA is the same as any other nation and that we should apologize for or be embarrassed by our successes and affluence. He, of course, thinks that he should be the leader of this new world order and continue to enjoy the perks of office while he decides how to redistribute our wealth to others. BO and his supporters know from their adherence to the socialist teachings of Saul Alinsky and others that one of the surest ways to undermine a society is to gut its belief system and respect for law leading to increased lawlessness and people taking the law into their own hands.
BO is the "Manchurian Candidate" as his words and actions have proven over and over again. This leniency towards the criminal element is just one of the tools to be employed in destroying the USA as we know it. That's what they are thinking!
Crack and cocaine are the same drug in different forms- the sentencing should be the same!
They're already soft on sentencing.
They're soft on convicting for crying out loud. Most of the narcotics cases get thrown out or the judge lets em go.
There was a burglar in the station the other day who had 7(yes, 7) prior convictions for burglary.
He had just gotten caught for burglary again.
I think what Obama is trying to do here is abolish prison time for low level narcotics offenders. Convicted felons don't have the right to vote correct?
Anonymous said...
None of this is in defense of being soft on Murdering Pookie or Chester the Molester or Shithead Burglar or Jagoff the Mugger... Fuck them. That said, we have far too many laws that criminalize far too many things (even beyond just the drug issue), a judicial/justice system that is totally broken and a larger culture that is paying a grave price for our 'warehousing' model.
This is one issue where change is needed and "soft on crime" sorts of fearmongering has prevented it from happening since Willie Horton became a household name.
You outed yourself when you used the tired old democrat party charge of "fearmongering." OK, since you already covered murdering, molesting, burglarizing, and robbing, can you tell me who (besides the poor innocent drug addicts) you don't want us to incarcerate?
I have an idea: Why don't we warehouse these pricks properly and make it tough on them in prison so they don't want to go back? Take away their weights, cable TV (replace this with books), etc. Make it more like Sheriff Joe in Az has it. As it stands, these morons don't mind being in.
The court system revert back to the
old days when the judge would offer
the offender a choice of going to
jail or serving in the Army.
Offer the current crop of offenders
a choice of jail or serving with the military in Iraq or Afganistan
since they love to shoot people.
This would enable the decent guys
serving there to come home to their
loved ones, and perhaps do away with "stop-loss", extending the
guys enlistment at the last minute
when goes to personnel to process
out for home.
Prisons full? Build more. Expensive? Not so much. Maricopa County Arizona has one of the lowest cost if not th lowest cost prison in the United States. Maybe we need to take page out of their book.
dear liberals,
nobody goes to prison for possession. if you get time then you had enough weight to sell or got caught selling. there are also a million bullshit boot camps, probation, double, triple, quadruple secret probations for you to make an adult decision to change your ways.
the burglar who pleads to criminal trespass and doesn't serve a day; he's done hundreds of burglaries he never got caught for and the only thing that will stop him is death or prison.
the guy that gets a year suspended sentence for sticking his cock in some kid's face in the restroom; he's done worse and will do worse.
you use left wing bullshit terms like "warehousing" and "fear mongering" and talk of the drug offenders with no lengthy backgrounds but offer no specific examples.
you always start your opinion with the "i know cops see terrible things on a daily basis". obviously you don't know how terrible.
just because some hippie professor told you this bullshit or you read it in a book doesn't make it true.
That's reality.
Ummm...OK, stupid. "Crack" and powder cocaine may be the same chemical formula, but they are most assuredly NOT the same illicit drug. Crack is a much more powerful destroyer and should be regulated as such. Want to reduce it to a black and white thing? Fine, I'll let the white crackheads know that they can go free. Idiot.
Crack and cocaine are the same drug in different forms- the sentencing should be the same!
................................
I agree totally. The only diffence in these drugs are the race of the most likey user.
Our criminal justice system- and sentencing in particular- has really gone off the rails. In too many cases, we're soft on genuinely bad guys. In other cases, we're far too harsh on people who have made otherwise isolated, dumb decisions. As far as sentencing and criminal justice goes, the ideological outliers have grown to become much larger than the happy median.
-----------
How many isolated, dumb decisions, does it take to make a bad guy?
" A 40 oz'er in every ghetto fist" !
B.O. POTUS
Execute (like the Bible says) the murderers and rapists! Since most druggies (i.e. dealers and users) become murderers and rapists, execute them too!
Yet another campaign issue for the fall. What are these guys thinking?
Labels: crime, national politics
**********************************
More Vikings on the street to plunder & pillage = More votes for Dems.
If those 2 million people were out on the street, we'd be less safe. When criminals are in jail, they are not victimizing us. I'm always surprised just how naive some people are. If one of these miscreants kills one of your family members, I hope you realize they will only serve maybe 7 years for taking the life of your loved one here in Cook County. Oh I forgot, they only serve maybe 7 years IF they are caught and convicted.
Felonies are routinely made into misdemeanors prior to even the bad guy being fingerprinted in Chicago. We know this, but the public doesn't.
I always enjoy the handwringers that worry so about those poor souls "caught uo in the system", until the bad guy victimizes them. It's just fine with them as long as whatever they believe is fair doesn't affect them. But it's good for the rest of us.
"9/12/2010 09:30:00 AM"
the US military does not want shit.
"As it stands, these morons don't mind being in.
9/12/2010 09:30:00 AM"
watch the movie, "The Getaway", the Steve McQueen original.
pay particular attention to the beginning, while he's still incarcerated.
that's how it's supposed to be.
Q:What are these guys thinking?
A: Just keepin' it real!
You outed yourself when you used the tired old democrat party charge of "fearmongering." OK, since you already covered murdering, molesting, burglarizing, and robbing, can you tell me who (besides the poor innocent drug addicts) you don't want us to incarcerate?
I have an idea: Why don't we warehouse these pricks properly and make it tough on them in prison so they don't want to go back? Take away their weights, cable TV (replace this with books), etc. Make it more like Sheriff Joe in Az has it. As it stands, these morons don't mind being in.
9/12/2010 09:30:00 AM
------------------------------
I didn't 'out myself' as anything, other than as someone who understands a bit about this issue, beyond just spouting mindless dogma. I'd probably be closest to a Libertarian type, as far as politics go.
We've been doing things your way for 40 years. How's that working out for ya? Hint: It isn't. It's failed; really, really bad. We have four decades of proof to reference that your way is the wrong way. Prisons are already shitholes. If you think a television set or a book is a 'luxury' when you're living in a cell for 23 hours a day, well, that's a pretty idiotic opinion to have, even though you're entitled to have it.
Prison should be punishment, but no one is served when we make no effort at rehabilitation.
It's better to fix what's broken, rather than to just lock it away for a few years and hope it magically fixes itself in the meantime.
----------------------
How many isolated, dumb decisions, does it take to make a bad guy?
9/12/2010 01:38:00 PM
----------------------
It depends on the gravity of those decisions. In some cases, one. In other cases, a few. Any given fist fight can be considered a 'felony' if the right random circumstances are present. We can't make rigid rules for dynamic situations and expect that to have a favorable outcome. It's why troops no longer march into battle in formation with static firing lines. You have to examine every situation based on it's unique circumstances.
We've been ratcheting down the bar for what constitutes a 'felony' for years now, at the same time when we've been drastically increasing sentences- to the point of absurdity. In the age of $9.95 background checks, all sentences are effectively a life sentence.
Look up the difference between 'malum prohibitum' and 'malum in se'. They're central precepts of criminal justice and something every cop already understands very well, even if he doesn't speak Latin. There are 'felonies' that are hardly more than legal technicalities.
Bill Cozzi is now a convicted, Federal felon who cannot ever expunge his record (even if one day, he were to receive a Presidential Pardon). I'm sure every single person here howling for the inconsiderate approach towards everyone else gets awfully considerate about his situation and is perfectly willing to examine the facts a bit more closely, consider the details a bit more carefully.
That same standard applies to everyone else, too. The result of people being inconsiderate and out for blood is precisely the same social dynamic that fucked over Cozzi.
I swear, sometimes, I think some of you live in am ideological bubble.
There's over 2million People currently incarcerated in the US. Does that make us any safer?
Alot of these are drug offenders w/no lengthy backgrounds. The problem the system is overburdened unfortunately the real bad actors are released to ease budgetary constraints only to commit more mayhem. Obviously Lockem up Lockem up isnt the answer, it's failed miserably. Like it or not the sentencing guidelines need to be revamped.That's reality.
9/12/2010 01:07:00 AM
You can bet if there were 4 million you'd be a lot safer. The recidivism rate in the US is 67.5% within 3 years. Go back to reading the Final Call because you logic is flawed.
i still like my idea of devil s island. send their lawyers with them too.
One mans opinion, agree or disagree as you please.
9/12/2010 02:05:00 AM
You make some valid points, but in Cook County, if you are in jail for drugs, you had a lot of drugs. A majority of drug cases get thrown out at the preliminary hearing. But like you said, the major problem is the system is to easy on those arrested 50+ times and still get probation.
The recidivism rate in the US is 67.5% within 3 years.
----------------------------
Right... and a few years after Bill Cozzi gets out, go talk with him about how easy it's been for him to find work, secure a stable life, etc as a convicted felon.
Isn't it funny, how in his case, everyone is so considerate of the factual details, deeply interested in the minutiae that might mitigate the situation, etc- and ya know what? Rightly so. They should be considerate of all those thins. Yet for everyone else, those very same people who are quick to deconstruct the facts down the subatomic level for Cozzi are totally inconsiderate, black and white, LOCK 'EM UP AND HANG 'EM HIGH! without bothering to afford those very same considerations.
That same bloodlust mentality is precisely what caused 12 Cook County jurors to screw that poor cop. An inconsiderate, knee-jerk overreaction. Years of hostility towards what they perceived as police 'getting away with bad stuff', laid on his shoulders. That very same sentiment is in play when people on the other side of the ball are equally inconsiderate, frustrated with what they perceive as a system that lets criminals 'get away with bad stuff'... so they want to screw everyone, without bothering to pause and consider the details, the bigger picture or anything else.
In both cases, neither side is being thoughtful. After all, thought takes effort. Dogma is much easier. Fits into a clean, one or two sentence soundbyte that works well on televised debates between politicians.
There's a big world out there, many of whom are doing things much differently than we are, with results that, by any objective measure, are significantly more favorable to society at large.
One Mans Opinion
- Veteran
- Probably owns more firearms than any cop here
- USPSA competitor
- Voted McCain in 08
- Bush in 04
- Bush in 00
(just to head off the "...muhhhhhh, yer a LIBURIL! bullshit)
"You can bet if there were 4 million you'd be a lot safer. The recidivism rate in the US is 67.5% within 3 years. Go back to reading the Final Call because you logic is flawed.
9/12/2010 08:36:00 PM"
Study released in June 2006
67% of former prisoners are rearrested and 52% are re-incarcerated, a recidivism rate that calls into question the effectiveness of America's corrections system, which costs taxpayers $60 billion a year. Violence, overcrowding, poor medical and mental health care, and numerous other failings plague America's 5,000 prisons and jails. The study indicates that even small improvements in medical care could significantly reduce recidivism. “What happens inside jails and prisons does not stay inside jails and prisons,” the commission concludes, since 95% of inmates are eventually released back into society, ill-equipped to lead productive lives. Given the dramatic rise in incarceration over the past decade, public safety is threatened unless the corrections system does in fact “correct” rather than simply punish. For a copy of the complete report and the commission's recommendations for reform, see www.prisoncommission.org/report.asp
STICK YOUR FINAL CALL UP YOUR ASS SIDEWAYS STROKE
you don't want my Opinion, i'm just a rube. a rube who will find Bill a job when he gets out if he needs my help. but there is alot of people out there that will have better ones than i can offer. you thought we wouldn't? people that use big words too. how's that for thoughtful? don't answer...i don't care.
Anonymous said...
The court system revert back to the old days when the judge would offer the offender a choice of going to jail or serving in the Army.
Offer the current crop of offenders a choice of jail or serving with the military in Iraq or Afganistan since they love to shoot people.
This would enable the decent guys serving there to come home to their loved ones, and perhaps do away with "stop-loss", extending the guys enlistment at the last minute when goes to personnel to process out for home.
9/12/2010 09:30:00 AM
If the bum is standing in front of a judge it is a good guess that the military doesn't want them. They are more selective, at least in theory. The old days you refer to were circa 1968 when much of the army was drafted.
The military is about taking orders and discipline. What good is some social misfit who never listens to anyone in life? A problem for the Army, that's what.
Better they gain some clout and seek employment among the ranks of the command staff of the CPD. Now that is a group of useless goofs that has demonstrated a willingness to take almost anyone regardless of the level of incompetence. They take anyone.
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